Graic Gabtar posted:

Maybe not you but plenty are.

And there is a reason you went there on a Sunday not a Tuesday night so your going to put yourself out indefinitely?

And even if you do shop on Tuesdays you're just going to get directed towards those self checkout things more and more.

You probably already use them and hate yourself for it, but they are just so quick and easy.

Birdstrike posted:

No it isn't: both boxes of corn flakes go to a store of some description, but in your example the retailer has to organise and pay for the last link in the distribution chain ie the handover to the customer. In a normal store the customer grabs it off the shelves and takes it home all by themselves, thus completing the chain.

I discussed this with a Metcash executive last year, the supermarket chains haven't yet figured out a way to effectively monetise grocery delivery. It was his final frontier.

Mithranderp posted:

our PM, everybody.

Graic Gabtar posted:

Focusing on penalty rates only is just narrow thinking. First rule of small business. Employ casuals. Penalty rates I believe most small business will bear as a cost. It's all the risks associated with full time employees as far as business owners see it that diminish what might be better employment (IMHO).

e: Typos

MC Eating Disorder posted:

Casual employment needs to exist in some form, or hiring students would be loving impossible, but acting like giving adult employees guaranteed hours each week is some kind of inconvenience business can't afford to bear is disingenuous bullshit

Graic Gabtar posted:

The only times I have been in a union was when it has been compulsory to work somewhere. I'm not a big fan of compulsory, or angry picket lines etc. I just don't think that resonates with people. To be blunt nothing I've seen about the way unions operate would want me to be involved in one.

"Moneyed elite" - OK, have you ever run a small business? Or been involved in one?

Les Affaires posted:

Yep, and penalty rates are perfectly acceptable. It's a way to use economics to discourage businesses en masse from opening on the weekend unless they have a loving good reason.

Pickled Tink posted:

KITTY!

Also, Image leeching is bad.

The Guardian posted:

At the heart of the controversy is Joyce’s insistence to the parliament that corrections to the Hansard record of an incorrect answer he gave regarding drought support loans on 20 October had been made by his staff, without his knowledge, and that he had asked for the changes to be reversed when he became aware that they had been made.

The opposition agriculture spokesman, Joel Fitzgibbon, has been questioning whether Joyce did know about, or request, the changes – an allegation which, if proven, would mean Joyce had committed the sackable offence of misleading the House of Representatives.

sidviscous posted:

That's what ASMOF is for...

http://www.asmof.org.au

Graic Gabtar posted:

I would be completely unmoved by that as I added your IP to our watch list.

Nuclear Spy posted:

Took me a minute to find Wyatt Roy in this photo

BlitzkriegOfColour posted:

ModernMoneyNetwork channel on youtube, personheim

freebooter posted:

balance was restored when Howard overreached, but it was a near thing. And now the Liberals are making noises about it again. Every time there's a Liberal government the hard-won rights of workers in Australia will be at risk.

Graic Gabtar posted:

"Moneyed elite" - OK, have you ever run a small business? Or been involved in one?

quote:

Tony the Political Migrant

Once upon a time and city, in the fifties, London lovely, was born a boy with dreams of gold, with power lust and heart of mould.

One day, needing money, he said to his mother: "Go into your purse and give me a quid. I will rule the world one day and then your debt I shall repay. Don't delay, do as I bid - I promise now, you'll be glad you did!"

And his mother said to him, "I'm sorry, Tony, really I am. I won't stand for demands, nor your commands nor rage-clenched hands. This is the twenty-first century, not a penitentiary. Keep the worms locked and canned - leave cruel ambitions safe unplanned!"

But he did not listen to his mother. And so Tony fled to the ends of the earth, searching in vain for a welcoming berth. He tried place after place, he tried race after race - he'd sell all that he'd got if they gave him a space.

First he went to the Vatican, but the Pope said to him, "I'm sorry, Tony, really I am. I'm a fan of your faith and impressed by your zeal, but we've lost too much power, we've squandered our deal. We can't have crusades with the cops at our heel!"

And so Tony, disappointed but determined, went to Buckingham Palace. But the Queen said to him, "I'm sorry, Tony, really I am. Your campaign would be drowned in this new-fangled town. You'd toil night and day to be loyal to royals, but they've shut us all down, all that's left is our crown!"

But Tony was not to be deterred - to surrender his birthright would just be absurd. "I must govern," he cried, "I must rule, I must dominate - the fates dictate I be lord of some state!"

The leaders of China listened and blushed but at the end of the day their refusals were rushed. "I'm sorry, Tony, really I am. You're right that we're rich, but there's such a big hitch - even though we love money we're a communist country. If we let you slip in we'd be dead in a ditch!"

He cursed and he wept, he nodded and stared, his tongue kept on licking just as fast as he dared.

The American right put up much the same fight - straight away he saw it would end in dismay. "I'm sorry, Tony, really I am. But this is now truly the land of the free. We're home to all races, all peoples and creeds - if you dog whistle here you'll be hanged from a tree!"

And Putin in Russia was no more relenting, lamenting the rise of protesters dissenting. "I'm sorry, Tony, really I am. But if we hang all the gays they will put as away - we tried and we tried but our hands were all tied. Bigotry and hatred are not here to stay, though we pray and delay and we fight day by day."

The boy was world-famous for his wanderings shameless. "I refuse to surrender," he yelled, "Nor relinquish my tender!" And across the wide earth his search went on aimless.

The politicians at Rome would not make it his home, knowing his corruption would cause a disruption. "I'm sorry, Tony, really I am. We all shook the hands of a legion of crooks, we've got dirty cheques piled up to our necks, but you won't cook the books with your lizard-like looks!"

Even North Korea could see a sucker's idea. "I'm sorry, Tony, really I am. But we all know that you're not much of a reader. You can glower and scour but you must defer to military power. Only breeders and feeders can be our Dear Leaders!"

Even Saudi Arabia, the haters of labia, would not succumb to his madman's mad mania. "I'm sorry, Tony, really I am. But our dynastic tradition still has awkward positions. We know that you fear those of female persuasion, but there'll be no evasions of their learning equations. We can't stop the ambition for girls' schools admissions!"

But Tony was resolute. He was destined to rule, though the ruled be inimical. He was the political migrant, the uncritical violent, the biblical pinnacle of an aspirant new tyrant.

What could he do - where could he go? There was no place on earth that had fallen so low. There was no country so hopeless, so lost medieval, that would welcome the taint of Tony Abbott's crude evil.

Would he give up on crime? Would he wash off his slime? Would he re-enter the world of humans this time?

But no - God gave him a glance of a land in a trance, a remarkable place of uncharted expanse, and he said to himself, "Could this be my chance?"

He practised his smile, perfected his style, did all that he could to not appear vile, before he stepped off the plane like a bride down the aisle.

The Aussies were cautious, suspicious, askew; they would not be exploited like lambs for the stew. They had one obsession, the national question, that would determine their PM, their knight through and true: "You're not Muslim, are you?"

"No," he said slowly, suspecting a trick - but as we all know, they're thick as a brick. And at the end of the day... they elected the prick.

Zetsubou-san posted:

MC Eating Disorder posted:

The argument for penalty rates and the argument against having a workforce primarily of casuals are almost identical though. If your profit margins are thin enough that you need to abolish penalty rates or you need to have perfectly uniform wage percentages (ie have a staff made up almost entirely of casuals) in order to maintain a functioning business over time, then you're basically avoiding going out of business at the expense of your employees lifestyle.

MC Eating Disorder posted:

You can say that these casual jobs aren't meant for real adults but if you haven't noticed, the casualisation of the workforce isn't referring to kids working in cafes, its in manufacturing, its even in low skill white collar jobs like data entry, its creeping into every field of work that doesn't require a degree and its getting a lot worse.

MC Eating Disorder posted:

Technically, you're meant to be able to ask to go onto permanent fulltime/parttime after six months in a work place, but guess what? If you're casual, you're replaceable, and if you don't know your rights or don't have anyone to advocate for your rights (which is pretty likely because there's not much a union can do for you as a casual) you probably don't even know that in the first place, and even if you do, you basically have to accept that a lot of work places are just simply going to stop giving you hours and assume you can't afford to pursue any legal action against them, which is pretty much true most of the time. Casual employment needs to exist in some form, or hiring students would be loving impossible, but acting like giving adult employees guaranteed hours each week is some kind of inconvenience business can't afford to bear is disingenuous bullshit

freebooter posted:

And yes, I know small businesses are run by ordinary salt of the earth hard-working Aussies etc. But aside from the fact that you should be factoring our 50-year-old penalty rates laws into your small business plan, and respecting your employees enough to pay them extra for unsociable hours rather then expecting them to sacrifice their rights for the success of your business, here's the thing: the phrase "small business" is used by media and government in Australia as a stand-in for "big business." They are never going to win voters over to their Cut Workers' Rights Bill by saying that it will help Coles and Rio Tinto and QBE make an extra 7% this year. They are going to win them over by constantly using the phrase "small business," which very coincidentally also benefits from the slashing of penalty rates. (See also: the constant use of the phrase "productivity" rather than "profit." Profit has become a tainted word, at least in theory, whereas being productive is still well-regarded, even as it slowly becomes a weasel word.)

The Joe Hockeys and Malcolm Turnbulls of the world do not give a flying gently caress about small business. It's a verbal shield which ranks alongside "preventing deaths at sea" as a clever piece of political language employed to shift the goalposts and obscure their actual motives.

Graic Gabtar posted:

I don't think the lifestyles of employees or employers are really the remit of either party to be honest. Not hearing much compassion for small business owners working stupid hours trying to put food on the table. If your employer is such a complete oval office (which many are) start looking for another gig. An abolition of pentalty rates is not the way to go either though, but saying you can't look at any other options just because penalty rates - well that's not working out great either.
I would never argue that casual jobs are for kids because it doesn't reflect reality. And yes, many companies will game the system to stop employing people. However for many it's just risk mitigation. No small business wants to be knee-capped from an unfair dismissal claim (just or otherwise). No point going feral over it, it's just business.
Again, see above. You're getting all rage trembly. Some small business owner is probably just taking their accountant's advice.

EvilElmo posted:

I note that news.com.au on the first day of the Joe Hockey trial carried a story, quite high up on the page.

I haven't seen any stories since.

You read the articles on fairfax and guardian and , I think Joe might be regretting this.

asio posted:

So there's a high chance of a faulty boss in the current business model. He has to work very hard to put food on the table and if he struggles to do that the solution is to take food off his employee's table. Solution: remove the boss.

Problem: you can't stroke your ego imagining that one day you'll be a boss and have power of life and death over other people. Solution: don't be lazy and join politics instead.

Problem: who will run the business. Solution: an employee whose job it is to run the business.

Problem: there's no Mr Burns in charge guaranteed to care enough about profits to turn a buck to keep everyone in a job. Solution: everyone now has direct access to the effort=reward equation to work hard to drive profits.

Problem: you can't start your own business in the traditional model. Solution: you can't start your own business in the traditional model, you need to create a business that will bring all the people involved along the money train with you.

Problem: you
Solution:
You're a hateful greedy fucker who uses bad words and your children are ashamed of you because even they can tell the word oval office makes you look like a dead poo poo whether you hate women or not (the solution is to call you mean words until you close your mouth and let the people with positive things to say talk)

MC Eating Disorder posted:

Thanks for assuming I'm going feral over this by the way, cute subtle personal attack from someone who's apparently above that kind of thing, but i'm just laying out the facts from an employee perspective.

MC Eating Disorder posted:

I'm not an economist, but I'm pretty sure providing workers with stable income and some semblance of job security is probably good for society/our consumer economy as a whole though, so while we're all in agreement some level of casual employment needs to exist, I don't think its rocking the boat to say that if you are a small business and your entire workforce is casual adult labor, you probably don't have an implicit right to survive as a business. Plenty of businesses are running on this model and my point is its seeping into areas like manufacturing that have traditionally been stable areas of employment. I want to raise a family and I can't do that in hospitality so I've been looking at cutter and welder jobs, the trade I originally got into out of school, and it turns out most of the jobs in that area are ALSO casual or contractor positions now, despite the fact that they were all permanent full-time 10 years ago. The working class are very slowly and gradually turning into the casual/contractor class and its really bad that a grown 30 year old man like myself with a bunch of skills across a couple of industries can't find permanent full-time work. (I'm also trained and fully qualified on an industrial sowing machine but it turns out those jobs are all casual as well now)

Please continue to tell me how the solution to my problem is to find another job

Graic Gabtar posted:

The point I'm trying to make (and it's completely lost on my good mate oval office above) is what you find as completely wrong and unfair to workers (which I don't dispute by the way) is just people doing business as effectively as they can to minimise their own risk.

Graic Gabtar posted:

Maybe you're poo poo at what you do or it's a dying industry.

MC Eating Disorder posted:

The argument for penalty rates and the argument against having a workforce primarily of casuals are almost identical though. If your profit margins are thin enough that you need to abolish penalty rates or you need to have perfectly uniform wage percentages (ie have a staff made up almost entirely of casuals) in order to maintain a functioning business over time, then you're basically avoiding going out of business at the expense of your employees lifestyle. You can say that these casual jobs aren't meant for real adults but if you haven't noticed, the casualisation of the workforce isn't referring to kids working in cafes, its in manufacturing, its even in low skill white collar jobs like data entry, its creeping into every field of work that doesn't require a degree and its getting a lot worse. Technically, you're meant to be able to ask to go onto permanent fulltime/parttime after six months in a work place, but guess what? If you're casual, you're replaceable, and if you don't know your rights or don't have anyone to advocate for your rights (which is pretty likely because there's not much a union can do for you as a casual) you probably don't even know that in the first place, and even if you do, you basically have to accept that a lot of work places are just simply going to stop giving you hours and assume you can't afford to pursue any legal action against them, which is pretty much true most of the time. Casual employment needs to exist in some form, or hiring students would be loving impossible, but acting like giving adult employees guaranteed hours each week is some kind of inconvenience business can't afford to bear is disingenuous bullshit

Ket posted:

Hey everybody! Everybody!
I joined the greens!

Graic Gabtar posted:

I'll agree with most of what you say about the casual trend in business, but if a small business works under the laws of the land which are complex enough I think it's a bit of an ask that they need to pass your moral tests as well.

As for personal experience your mileage may vary. I've never had a problem with full time employment. Most of the time I actually prefer to be a contractor.

Maybe you do need to find a new line of work. Maybe you're poo poo at what you do or it's a dying industry.

quote:

A peak body for Aboriginal organisations in the Northern Territory has called for the prime minister to give up responsibility for a number of Indigenous affairs areas and give them back to the Health Department in order to have “the best chance at us achieving outcomes”.

Addressing a Senate committee hearing on domestic violence in Darwin on Tuesday, John Paterson, chief executive of the Aboriginal medical services and alliance Northern Territory (Amsant), called for the funding of alcohol and other drugs, social and emotional wellbeing, and other mental health programs and policies to be relocated back to the federal health portfolio.

“Not under prime minister and cabinet,” he said.

“The sooner it gets back under the health portfolio the better, and the best chance at us achieving the outcomes we want,” said Paterson, who is also head of the Aboriginal peak organisations Northern Territory (Apont).