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Isn't it simply semantic bullshit? One side of the argument says "the boats keep getting turned back, so therefore the boats have stopped (arriving)". The other side says "people are still endangering their lives by setting off in boats, therefore the bats have not stopped (leaving)". You're not going to have a good faith discussion unless you agree on what the discussion is (typical politics)
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Mar 11, 2015 08:06
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MC Eating Disorder posted:Yeah alright fair point guys but hoomans posts responding to him are still really good so I don't give a gently caress if you think he's encouraging a troll or whatever Yeah it's fine to respond to a troll with fair minded discussion, it's good for any lurkers reading the thread who may not have a great understanding of the issues at hand. Just don't explode in apoplectic rage with howls of kill you arse self. That's when you become a dumb bad child that fell for the troll.
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Mar 11, 2015 08:08
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SynthOrange posted:What i want to hear is if you honestly believe that Australia has been treating refugees with their safety and health in mind as you stated earlier, and if you still do after reading any of the above links. There are so many because the abuses are all over the Pacific Solution. Generally it would seem that basic needs are being met, but there are definitely things that have happened that should never occur. (I haven't read all your links yet)
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Mar 11, 2015 08:08
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hooman posted:Bandaids aren't solutions. Or is encouraging nations with citizens who are getting a bit bolshie to just export them so you get to feel better the grand extent of it?
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Mar 11, 2015 08:21
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hooman posted:literally piracy: No, it's a bad thing because it's literally an invasion of Indonesian sovereign territory. Piracy is what we do once it's outside Indonesian territory.
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Mar 11, 2015 08:28
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Graic Gabtar posted:What's your solution? You sound a little worked up about this, maybe you should take some time to calm down.
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Mar 11, 2015 08:29
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yes hooman, by responding to graic after i posted saying not to you are certainly owning me a lot harder than you are owning yourself
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Mar 11, 2015 08:29
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Graic Gabtar posted:What's your solution? I'm not sure this is a deliberate strategy by foreign nations to export their citizens, is it?
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Mar 11, 2015 08:30
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hi idiots i am about to make the definitive ratbag craig response, after which no further responses will be required
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Mar 11, 2015 08:32
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are you ready for it?
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Mar 11, 2015 08:32
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"drink my piss craig"
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Mar 11, 2015 08:32
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Entire Greyhound Racing Victoria board resigns in wake of live-baiting scandal http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/mar/11/entire-greyhound-racing-victoria-board-resigns-in-wake-of-live-baiting-scandal
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Mar 11, 2015 08:32
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there, let's put a line under that one
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Mar 11, 2015 08:32
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Senior Cabinet Minister Malcolm Turnbull says it would be a "thoroughly bad idea" to allow young people to tap into their superannuation savings to buy their first home. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-11/superannuation-turnbull-says-changing-rules-bad-idea/6303708
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Mar 11, 2015 08:34
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Here's Firstdog. Everybody likes Firstdog right?
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Mar 11, 2015 08:36
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Fruity Gordo posted:The only thing better than posting is posting about posting, and that is why Jonah Galtberg is the most wonderful poster of all. sorry i guess i'll just pop on over to facebook and threaten some people with murder on my personal account while in the employ of a political party and get lovely when i experience some degree of backlash over it (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 11, 2015 08:36
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I dont care what everybody else keeps saying about fruity, she's alright by me.
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Mar 11, 2015 08:38
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Jonah Galtberg posted:sorry i guess i'll just pop on over to facebook and threaten some people with murder on my personal account while in the employ of a political party and get lovely when i experience some degree of backlash over it Considering that Fruity took full responsibility for her actions on this one, I'm afraid it is you who is being lovely.
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Mar 11, 2015 08:38
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QUACKTASTIC posted:Senior Cabinet Minister Malcolm Turnbull says it would be a "thoroughly bad idea" to allow young people to tap into their superannuation savings to buy their first home. How is it that our current communications minister knows more about economics than both the current prime minister AND the current treasurer?
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Mar 11, 2015 08:39
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aww yeah this is the primo #content that i crave
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Mar 11, 2015 08:39
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QUACKTASTIC posted:Here's Firstdog. Everybody likes Firstdog right? bless you for trying but this is a bit much
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Mar 11, 2015 08:44
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Endman posted:Considering that Fruity took full responsibility for her actions on this one, I'm afraid it is you who is being lovely. you must be remembering it differently (incorrectly)
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Mar 11, 2015 08:45
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Ah, another graphic novel about politics by First dog.
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Mar 11, 2015 08:45
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Graic Gabtar posted:Where did I state that earlier? Thats alright, I posted a lot of links. How did you come to the conclusion that their basic needs are being met though? I would have thought the opposite would be the case because at least in the case of just Manus Island: 1) The locals hate the place so much and the inmates were at the point where there was a riot that killed one refugee and injured 76 more. 2) The medical and hygiene standards are so poor that a simple cut turned septic and eventually killed another refugee with blood poisoning. Inmates are routinely flown to the mainland for medical treatment. 3) If things are so above board and well run, why are no independent investigators being allowed into the facility? Surely they've got nothing to hide? I'm not asking for any answers. I just want you to consider these against your opinion of 'basic needs being met'. Also you can stop reading here if you're not interested in my view on why its all a sham. My opinion is that these places are massive wastes of money and lives for a political talking point. $1.2 billion in 2014 alone on Manus to house an average population of 1000 refugees in literal tents and shacks with inadequate sanitation or medical treatment. Where does the average $1 million per refugee go? Ask Transfield, good buddies with the LNP. Adding transport costs to fly Australian personnel and refugees to and from the mainland (FIFO for the staff, medical treatment for refugees occasionally) and you have a massive money pit just to make sure a politician did not break his promise, a place to stuff refugees out of sight of the public and inspectors, and massive kickbacks for contractors.  And with mainland Australia cut out from the migration zone, this doesnt even make any loving sense that we have to house them so far away other than to keep the promise of 'Stop the boats' since the outcome in terms of migration will be the same if they'd been dumped at Australian detention centers. Being on Australian soil has not stopped any refugees from being deported anyway in case of an adverse finding, and would have done it cheaper, safer and with less collateral damage to refugees while they're in our care. And that's looking at it from just a financial and legal perspective. There's a massive human cost as well but I'll leave that for later. Synthbuttrange fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 08:46
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 DO NOT READ THE BELOW JONAH GALTBERG, I WILL BE MAKING A POST YOU DON'T LIKE.(I also don't think I'm owning you, it's a mixture of light ribbing and warning that you shouldn't read the post because of who I'm responding to, if you don't want it or like it, I can stop.) Graic Gabtar posted:What's your solution? I included two suggestions in the post. Also, more reflections and implications about me personally. I think a better policy approach would be to address the root causes of refugees fleeing here* and deal with those who do get here humanely. Rather than this, we're taking the more expensive option of trying to prevent them from a) ever arriving and b) imprisoning and torturing them if they do. Feelings don't really come into it. *global instability, no other pathways for refugees to enter Australia, Indonesia's abysmal treatment of refugees, humanitarian crises in refugee camps globally, no queue existing, etc. etc. EDIT: In fact this is the post that has owned me. Drugs posted:"drink my piss craig" hooman fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 08:49
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Les Affaires posted:I dont care what everybody else keeps saying about fruity, she's alright by me.
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Mar 11, 2015 08:58
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Aladdin Sisalem is now a 35 year old student. He was a Kuwaiti born Palestinian who came to Australia seeking asylum. He was incarcerated on Manus Island's detention facility. Between July 2003 and June 2004 he was the only inmate there, confined to a 20x20m space. The entire facility was still staffed. Why? Who the gently caress knows. Refugee assessments take place in about two months in European facilities. Here it took more than a year. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-14/last-detainee-on-manus-says-reopening-centre-will/4197708 quote:The last asylum seeker held on Manus Island, Palestinian Aladdin Sisalem says re-opening a centre there will achieve nothing but the destruction of the mental health of its inmates. Eight years after leaving Manus Island, Aladdin Sisalem says he's still on medication and suffering post traumatic stress disorder and anxiety. It's a loving awful system designed to score political points and it breaks human beings. What the gently caress is the point.
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Mar 11, 2015 09:02
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Les Affaires posted:How is it that our current communications minister knows more about economics than both the current prime minister AND the current treasurer? Ah Hockey knows he's hosed and is just going to try whatever before he needs to put out the next budget. He and Abbott poo poo themselves into a corner with the all the goverment debt tax know that everyone's rightfully far more scared of the economy taking a tumble, or at the least just setting in to long term stagnation, which they probably both know they can't do anything about without increasing the deficit. I'm guessing we can expect a lot more of these random brain vomits from him leading up to the budget, but as even when he wasn't desperate he was still a bollocks treasurer, there is no way he's actually going to come up with anything that isn't laughably stupid to ecnomist and average voters a like. Anyway I know you know the real reason; because we electing a loving awful goverment, that's why!
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Mar 11, 2015 09:06
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SynthOrange posted:It's a loving awful system designed to score political points and it breaks human beings. What the gently caress is the point.
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Mar 11, 2015 09:12
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In contrast to how things are done now, this is a report from 2005 by the Brotherhood of St Lawrence.quote:Foreword http://www.bsl.org.au/pdfs/refugees_and_regional_settlement.pdf It's a long report but it covers the ups and downs of refugees in regional communities both from the refugees and local's perspectives? Overall though, it seemed to be doing well, invigorating local communities and their economies. There's challenges to accomodate but nothing insurmountable or ridiculous. But that was a decade ago and a very different time.
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Mar 11, 2015 09:15
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Jonah Galtberg posted:sorry i guess i'll just pop on over to facebook and threaten some people with murder on my personal account while in the employ of a political party and get lovely when i experience some degree of backlash over it Good idea, it'll be much more interesting than your posting.
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Mar 11, 2015 09:15
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Graic Gabtar posted:Is that a statement or a question? As sometimes people just don't want to know, or even theorize. Its an observation of the results. In the end nothing was achieved except to further traumatize a genuine refugee and to keep a white elephant running a little longer before it was shut down. gently caress you Rudd for opening it again.
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Mar 11, 2015 09:17
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hooman posted:
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Mar 11, 2015 09:17
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Fruity Gordo posted:Good idea, it'll be much more interesting than your posting. No Fruity. Not a good idea. See this is where you keep going wrong!
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Mar 11, 2015 09:18
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Jonah Galtberg posted:I just wish people could post about this stuff without having to give that idiot the attention he craves at the same time Wait, are you talking about yourself or Graic?
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Mar 11, 2015 09:19
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dr_rat posted:Ah Hockey knows he's hosed and is just going to try whatever before he needs to put out the next budget. He and Abbott poo poo themselves into a corner with the all the goverment debt tax know that everyone's rightfully far more scared of the economy taking a tumble, or at the least just setting in to long term stagnation, which they probably both know they can't do anything about without increasing the deficit. I'm guessing we can expect a lot more of these random brain vomits from him leading up to the budget, but as even when he wasn't desperate he was still a bollocks treasurer, there is no way he's actually going to come up with anything that isn't laughably stupid to ecnomist and average voters a like. Note that there are only a certain number of ministers on the expenditure committee and Turnbull isn't one of them. He will get the message across however he needs to, even if it is in the public arena.
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Mar 11, 2015 09:20
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QUACKTASTIC posted:Wait, are you talking about yourself or Graic? Graic! haha 
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Mar 11, 2015 09:21
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hooman posted:I included two suggestions in the post. Also, more reflections and implications about me personally. I don't buy into this torture thing either to be honest. gently caress ups of Government and some terrible administration yes. Crappy circumstances where several parties have to carry some blame yes. But torture, no.
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Mar 11, 2015 09:21
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Jonah post like this: waa waa wee waa but Fruity, she post like this: poo poo doo doo
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Mar 11, 2015 09:22
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Drugs posted:Jonah post like this: waa waa wee waa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD-yG2XnxpU
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Mar 11, 2015 09:23
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