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Someone said lethal injection was the least inhumane option, but wouldn't sedation followed by a slow release of carbon monoxide in a prisoner's sleep be much more humane and painless? Speaking a someone whom believes ideally we'd have no death penalty at all.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:32
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greatn posted:Someone said lethal injection was the least inhumane option, but wouldn't sedation followed by a slow release of carbon monoxide in a prisoner's sleep be much more humane and painless? Nitrogen would be better. But a bullet is certainly more humane than the current lethal injection methods.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:34
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You don't need sedation. Just pump the room full of pure nitrogen and they never see it coming. I think Oklahoma is actually investigating that option. Of course, just not killing people to begin with would be best.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:35
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I think we'd be shocked by the amount of people that would volunteer to kill prisoners. They might get cold feet at the last minute once they saw his face or got a stress disorder after taking a life but there would be a waiting list for people wanting to kill someone legally.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:36
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DemeaninDemon posted:I'm sure you could get 10 conservative gun nuts to pay to do it if you wanted. Most of them would probably poo poo their pants if they had to do something like that. I doubt as many would volunteer as we'd like to assume. I know a few conservative gun nuts and it's entirely about self defense for them and would defend their homes with tanks if they could, but going out of their way to kill someone is a stretch.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:36
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The death penalty is supposed to be about vengeance and the fact that it hurts is a feature not a bug for death penalty advocates.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:36
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Yeah the idea is to get what you truly want (painful torture for others, illegal abortions) but to message it like you care (protecting victims, making sure birth control is safe). It's sleazy as hell and it's hard to prove someone's true intent, even when they are clear about it as long as they deny the exact phrasing that makes it sound bad.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:39
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Radish posted:I think we'd be shocked by the amount of people that would volunteer to kill prisoners. They might get cold feet at the last minute once they saw his face or got a stress disorder after taking a life but there would be a waiting list for people wanting to kill someone legally. Then the population will start realizing that its actually a pretty awful thing instead of something to be proud of. Might not be the worst idea in the world.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:39
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I don't think it would result in people more unwilling to have them executed, just make them want other people to go back to doing the dirty work after they realize what it entails.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:40
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I'm opposed to nitrogen/CO asphyxiation because it would make executions so much easier that it would only make them more palatable and kneecap a lot of the opposition to the death penalty.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:42
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OTOH I don't think it's exactly good PR for the death penalty to have literal gas chambers be the primary method.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:45
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greatn posted:OTOH I don't think it's exactly good PR for the death penalty to have literal gas chambers be the primary method. Lots of places used to use the gas chamber, notably California.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:46
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On Terra Firma posted:Most of them would probably poo poo their pants if they had to do something like that. I doubt as many would volunteer as we'd like to assume. I know a few conservative gun nuts and it's entirely about self defense for them and would defend their homes with tanks if they could, but going out of their way to kill someone is a stretch. You'd be surprised how many sociopaths we have
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Mar 11, 2015 14:52
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The least humane solution is having life without parole in the US Prison system.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:53
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:You'd be surprised how many sociopaths we have Also, with how disproportionately blacks are sentenced to death vs. whites, the racists would be lining up out the door to shoot a black person.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:54
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zoux posted:The death penalty is supposed to be about vengeance and the fact that it hurts is a feature not a bug for death penalty advocates. Source: Freep threads covered in death penalty suffering jizz.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:55
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:You'd be surprised how many sociopaths we have I want to clarify that I meant to imply the volunteers should be coming from state law enforcement agencies. That's why I made the snark about which officials should be capped on promotion potential due to a willingness to kill a defenseless person.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:55
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AlternateNu posted:I want to clarify that I meant to imply the volunteers should be coming from state law enforcement agencies. That's why I made the snark about which officials should be capped on promotion potential due to a willingness to kill a defenseless person. I naturally extended it as an excuse to make fun of gun nuts.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:58
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DemeaninDemon posted:Source: Freep threads covered in death penalty suffering jizz. The better source is that we know it doesn't add a deterrent effect and in the end, due to appeals and associated court costs, is more expensive than keeping a person in prison for life, yet we do it anyway. AlternateNu posted:I want to clarify that I meant to imply the volunteers should be coming from state law enforcement agencies. That's why I made the snark about which officials should be capped on promotion potential due to a willingness to kill a defenseless person. Luckily our law enforcement agencies are sociopath-free.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:58
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Obligatory Onion video
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Mar 11, 2015 15:01
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Another article on ~Letter-Gate~:quote:The reaction from Washington’s foreign policy establishment was that President Obama’s authority as commander in chief had been challenged in a new and unprecedented way. quote:Former secretary of state Hillary Rodham Clinton weighed in Tuesday at a crowded news conference outside the U.N. Security Council chambers. Before she defended herself against allegations that she had improperly used a private e-mail account during her tenure, Clinton attacked Republicans who had signed the letter to Iran. “Either these senators were trying to be helpful to the Iranians or harmful to the commander in chief in the midst of high-stakes international diplomacy,” she said. “Either answer does discredit to the letter’s signatories.” http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...19d2_story.html
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Mar 11, 2015 15:07
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I'm just thrilled at the backlash against the GOP for this stunt.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:09
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm just thrilled at the backlash against the GOP for this stunt. What backlash would that be?
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Mar 11, 2015 15:11
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm just thrilled at the backlash against the GOP for this stunt. America will forget this ever happened in 2 weeks because an old, expired info page will be removed from the Obamacare website and we all know what's a more important news story.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:14
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zoux posted:What backlash would that be? Obama isn't going to jail them as traitors, give it a loving rest, zoux.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:16
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How are u posted:Obama isn't going to jail them as traitors, give it a loving rest, zoux. No I'm serious, what is the backlash that isn't Democrats saying it's bad? Also that's an intentional mischaracterization of my argument.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:18
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/10/republicans-admit-that-iran-letter-was-a-dumb-idea.htmlquote:Republican aides were taken aback by what they thought was a lighthearted attempt to signal to Iran and the public that Congress should have a role in the ongoing nuclear discussions. Two GOP aides separately described their letter as a “cheeky” reminder of the congressional branch’s prerogatives. It's was just a joke guys! Got you!
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Mar 11, 2015 15:21
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Well that's awkward.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:23
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zoux posted:No I'm serious, what is the backlash that isn't Democrats saying it's bad? I'm seeing headlines with words like "political firestorm," "backfire," "GOP rift," etc., does that not count?
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Mar 11, 2015 15:23
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zoux posted:What backlash would that be? "Mainstream" republican technocrats thinking its insane. Hopefully that trickles to donors as well, making EMEA countries nervous about whether US agreements are for real will really hurt business.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:24
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zoux posted:No I'm serious, what is the backlash that isn't Democrats saying it's bad? The Democrats are far less likely at this point to give them a veto override when they try to pass some bill sabotaging the negotiations. It's an actual setback to their agenda rather than the usual people complaining about how bad the Republicans are.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:25
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quote:“Before the letter, the national conversation was about Netanyahu’s speech and how Obama’s negotiations with Iran are leading to a terrible deal that could ultimately harm U.S. national security. Now, the Obama administration and its Capitol Hill partisans are cynically trying to push the conversation away from policy, and towards a deeply political pie fight over presidential and congressional prerogatives,” said a Senate Republican aide whose boss signed the letter. Yes why did Obama have to make these Iran negotiations into such a partisan pie fight?
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Mar 11, 2015 15:27
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TotalHell posted:I'm seeing headlines with words like "political firestorm," "backfire," "GOP rift," etc., does that not count? Are you reading more than the headlines? Where are these headlines on major media sites? The bodies of the articles are all Democrats criticizing, with some Republican dissembling. hobbesmaster posted:"Mainstream" republican technocrats thinking its insane. Hopefully that trickles to donors as well, making EMEA countries nervous about whether US agreements are for real will really hurt business. Please post the strongest worded quote vs. the letter from a Republican that you can find. 1337JiveTurkey posted:The Democrats are far less likely at this point to give them a veto override when they try to pass some bill sabotaging the negotiations. It's an actual setback to their agenda rather than the usual people complaining about how bad the Republicans are. Lol if you think that a Democratic assisted veto override on ANY piece of legislation, much less one on a Iran deal was ever possible.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:27
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lamentable dustman posted:http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/10/republicans-admit-that-iran-letter-was-a-dumb-idea.html Hello puppet master defense, my old friend
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Mar 11, 2015 15:28
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zoux posted:Are you reading more than the headlines? Where are these headlines on major media sites? The bodies of the articles are all Democrats criticizing, with some Republican dissembling. Look man, I know your position on this and I respect your ideas, I'm just saying that this story might actually blow up in the Republicans' face.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:29
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TotalHell posted:Look man, I know your position on this and I respect your ideas, I'm just saying that this story might actually blow up in the Republicans' face. Thanks, but it's already passing out of the media narrative cycle.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:30
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zoux posted:Please post the strongest worded quote vs. the letter from a Republican that you can find. Oh come on the article is like 5 posts above you. quote:Many in the GOP foreign policy establishment, meanwhile, expressed disappointment over the increasingly partisan nature of U.S. foreign policy. Former senator Richard G. Lugar (R-Ind.), who previously served as chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, described Cotton’s letter as “an unfortunate venture” and said he would have advised the freshman senator and Army veteran not to send it. Thats like as mean as establishment republicans are going to get against the majority of their sitting senators.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:31
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MC Nietzche posted:I'm as pissed off as anyone at those 47 senators but serious Obama can't start jailing his political opponents en masse. Come on. He could just fine them. Or just Cotton. And Jindal. Because, Jindal.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:34
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The effect can be divided into the long and near term. Near term: it dealt a blow to attempts to get a veto proof bill together on the Iran negotiations during March (also hurt by Bibi's speech, and various Republican maneuvers in the Senate). In the long term? Who knows, but it does add to a narrative that is discernable to people beyond hardcore partisans.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:35
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hobbesmaster posted:Oh come on the article is like 5 posts above you. "A questionable venture"  Compare that to GOP reactions to thinks like Akin's rape comments or other bad indefensible behavior from Republicans with national profile. Fix posted:He could just fine them. Or just Cotton. Or he could say literally anything at all about it. Shageletic posted:The effect can be divided into the long and near term. Near term: it dealt a blow to attempts to get a veto proof bill together on the Iran negotiations during March (also hurt by Bibi's speech, and various Republican maneuvers in the Senate). In the long term? Who knows, but it does add to a narrative that is discernable to people beyond hardcore partisans. My concern is that it will add to the idea that the GOP can work to sabotage the Obama administrations foreign policy with no repercussions. As I've said I don't think that this letter, while seriously bad form, is going to collapse US foreign policy, but it's the second time that Congressional Republicans have committed massive breaches of diplomatic protocol and I'm worried what their next step will be.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:42
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