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pylb posted:Isn't Lebron without his defense/speed the best comparison to Larry Bird ? Crazy Ted fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 16:15
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Mar 11, 2015 16:16
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The black Beatle
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Mar 11, 2015 16:23
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The Marching Mamba
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Mar 11, 2015 16:37
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Admiral Stoudemire demands full speed.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:38
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Lockback posted:He made 3 all-defensive teams, which yeah Kobe made them too after he should have, but Bird was pretty solid. He was great at wrecking passing lanes for a guy who was frequently at the 4. He didn't usually play the other team's worst player, he usually let McHale handle the faster guys (since he wasn't quick, even for his size). He had good instincts and was backed up by two shotblockers, so he could gamble a lot, which got him a lot of steals and made for good highlights, but play to play being so slow footed really hurt him, especially back then when there wasn't any zone defense. He'd probably be better now, but at the time he was at best he probably worked out to like average. Which given the era wasn't unusual for star players, but when you're looking for guys to compare him too (which is really hard because he was so uniquely skilled) I don't know that you need to be looking for guys who were great defensive players. All defense team was mostly because of steals and because he was a big name. One of the best ways to make those (other than blocking lots of shots) is to be a good offensive player.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:38
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Illinois Smith posted:Steph's jumper is super quick and awesome but Klay clearly has superior form. All I'm saying is that if you haven't shed literal tears over a swished Steph Curry three-pointer then you don't really appreciate basketball.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:41
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Henchman of Santa posted:All I'm saying is that if you haven't shed literal tears over a swished Steph Curry three-pointer then you don't really appreciate basketball. I save all my tear shedding for Damian Lillard jumpers.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:42
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If you want to defend a player's All-defense team, maybe don't compare it to Kobe who had at least 1 reward gifted completely on reputation while being one of the worse starting defenders in the league.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:43
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Tae posted:If you want to defend a player's All-defense team, maybe don't compare it to Kobe who had at least 1 reward gifted completely on reputation while being one of the worse starting defenders in the league.  He was doing it to acknowledge that those teams are sometimes stupid and Kobe is probably the best way to make that point.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:56
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MourningView posted:
Oh okay, the wording confused me a little there.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:58
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chunkles posted:I got a half chub just reading that sentence. a testament to how bad the mavs d is
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Mar 11, 2015 18:41
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chunkles posted:I save all my tear shedding for Damian Lillard jumpers. in case anyone's missing this it's written by a Rockets fan Lockback posted:Lebron is totally unlike any other player to such a high degree you really can't compare his game as a whole. Lebron's Speed and Strength are two hugely differentiating factors from Bird and make up what Lebron is. Bird wasn't nearly as good at taking contact inside, and no other player was as dangerous from the triple-threat position as Lebron, except MAYBE MJ (MJ was better in other places on the floor, but Lebron's passing makes him so deadly from the top of the key). I think LeBron as a bigger, stronger, ever so slightly less coordinated and evil Jordan is a fine comparison. They both got that instantaneous physical creativity where they seem to be improvising movements, reacting faster than everyone else. Slow mo makes it a beautiful thing to watch. Also MJ never needed to see the rim to finish, he had the nicest reverse the world has yet seen. edit: actually this one is more like the stuff I remember, jumping up, getting hit by a few blockers then putting it in from his hip with his head facing towards the opposite basket kinda guy, he'd regularly finish those throwaway shots that you see people pretend to try after a foul. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxkoGH07ckc if you watch it look for a few opposing bench players jumping in excitement before noticing what they've done and lookin' around like woops Lockback posted:He took plays off, but keep in mind during the 80s and early 90s "trying on defense only half the time" was pretty normal and every player did that. I think a lot of people remember Bird at the tail end of his career where his back was completely wrecked, but during his time he was much better than a "meh" defender. SportVU still has the Spurs as top 1 or 2 (depending on how you measure they change places with the 76ers) runningest team in the game. Smart minutes monitoring lets them play way more aggressive D and tire out all the teams that are trying to play stars for too many minutes. I guess you used to have to rest on the court if you were going to be able to turn it on in the 4th. EvanTH fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 19:12
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Grantland did an article about how to make the D-League actually viable for player development: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/d-league-deconstruction-the-necessary-plan-to-fix-the-nbas-farm-system/
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Mar 11, 2015 19:40
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Kibner posted:Grantland did an article about how to make the D-League actually viable for player development: Note that the piece is written by Arn Tellem, so it's not like he doesn't have a vested interest.
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Mar 11, 2015 19:43
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double dip posted:a testament to how bad the mavs d is The Mavs were winning the game until JR Smith injured Aminu.
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Mar 11, 2015 19:43
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Kibner posted:Grantland did an article about how to make the D-League actually viable for player development: Interesting that they let Arn Tellem write a piece. Obviously he just wants more money dollars, but I still agree with pretty much the entire thing.
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Mar 11, 2015 19:45
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Crazy Ted posted:No because he's more of a match to Oscar Robertson. It's really hard to find a good comparison to Larry Bird. You'd need to find a 3/4 tweener who could average close to a 30/10/7 line in his prime - with excellent perimeter shooting - in spite of mediocre athletic ability. There have been Stretch 4's who could shoot like Bird, but none who could pass like him. LeBron James and believe it or not Josh Smith are comparable passers but fall short in terms of shooting and not being lumbering hicks who abandon their children
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Mar 11, 2015 19:53
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morestuff posted:Note that the piece is written by Arn Tellem, so it's not like he doesn't have a vested interest. This is true and I should have noted that. I'm still unsure on the cost-benefit for each NBA team, but I would certainly love it if there was a higher investment in the D-League.
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Mar 11, 2015 19:58
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Kibner posted:This is true and I should have noted that. I'm still unsure on the cost-benefit for each NBA team, but I would certainly love it if there was a higher investment in the D-League. Depending on how it plays out, it seems like there is the potential for it to be profitable in its own right rather than subsidized by NBA teams.
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Mar 11, 2015 19:59
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chunkles posted:Depending on how it plays out, it seems like there is the potential for it to be profitable in its own right rather than subsidized by NBA teams. Doesn't the WNBA still lose money with the players making awful wages? Would a D-League team will bring in as much revenue as a WNBA team? I imagine the numbers would be pretty close. But I dunno, I may be underestimating the interest in paying to watch a minor league basketball team.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:03
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Kibner posted:Doesn't the WNBA still lose money with the players making awful wages? Would a D-League team will bring in as much revenue as a WNBA team? I imagine the numbers would be pretty close. But I dunno, I may be underestimating the interest in paying to watch a minor league basketball team. Haven't read the article, but presumably the model would be based on the minor league baseball system, where the thirst for live sports and the lack of competition in a given market allows teams to become profitable on their own terms rather than just living off scraps from the parent team.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:07
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The WNBA pays pretty decent. Not as good as overseas but at least better than waiting tables money. There's no interest in it now, because teams are all in the middle of nowhere, I assume for cheap rent purposes. They don't, AFAIK, really have dedicated fans or anything. If they pay more, get some talent that would otherwise be overseas or in college, I could see that changing.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:08
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Kibner posted:Grantland did an article about how to make the D-League actually viable for player development: He wants to spend other people's money and I am not sure I believe that it would be as profitable as he says it would be (D-League would need to be mroe popular than NCAA basketball for it to be 2 million+ profit per team, and that probably isn't happening), but I think he's right on the money about the development opportunities it would create.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:19
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chunkles posted:The WNBA pays pretty decent. Not as good as overseas but at least better than waiting tables money. I went to high school with a girl who turned down a rookie contract because she could make more as a grade school teacher
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Mar 11, 2015 20:28
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Arm Tellum's kid was one of those sideline monkeys during the Sumner league. He was a spoiled little poo poo yet somehow was stuck with an iPhone 4 with a cracked screen as his cellphone. He didn't do anything other than text at the scores table, occasionally throw stuff into the crowd, and complain about the food being provided for lunch. That is my Arm Tellum story
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Mar 11, 2015 20:29
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did any post that there's not going to be any cap smmothing? Lmao its jumping from 67 to 90m apparently
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Mar 11, 2015 20:31
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straight up brolic posted:did any post that there's not going to be any cap smmothing? Lmao its jumping from 67 to 90m apparently This free agency is going to be great.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:32
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straight up brolic posted:did any post that there's not going to be any cap smmothing? Lmao its jumping from 67 to 90m apparently give all players the max
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Mar 11, 2015 20:33
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straight up brolic posted:did any post that there's not going to be any cap smmothing? Lmao its jumping from 67 to 90m apparently That is so dumb. So this year its 63, next year will probably be 66-67 or so, the year after that 90+. Get ready for 1-year deals this off-season and also get ready for butt-hurt Owners who miss out of FA to push for another lockout.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:34
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straight up brolic posted:did any post that there's not going to be any cap smmothing? Lmao its jumping from 67 to 90m apparently Is that for certain? I know the head of the NBAPA already said that she was going to fight it.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:35
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straight up brolic posted:did any post that there's not going to be any cap smmothing? Lmao its jumping from 67 to 90m apparently It's going to be a crazy summer. Oh man, if it had come a year earlier imagine how much money it would've saved NY and Brooklyn in luxury tax. E: moving Durant/Bird stuff to own post. Rick fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 20:36
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Also it appears that the age limit has been scrapped as the NBA, NCAA, and NBCoA approved a plan to move the declaration date back, offer an invitation only combine for underclassmen, and provide the players that participate in the combine with feedback before they declare
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Mar 11, 2015 20:36
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MourningView posted:Is that for certain? I know the head of the NBAPA already said that she was going to fight it.  It's good that the Players Union has someone with a backbone now, but she's so aggressive that I'm pretty sure we're going to miss games.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:37
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Lockback posted:That is so dumb. So this year its 63, next year will probably be 66-67 or so, the year after that 90+. Get ready for 1-year deals this off-season and also get ready for butt-hurt Owners who miss out of FA to push for another lockout. Declan MacManus posted:LeBron James and believe it or not Josh Smith are comparable passers but fall short in terms of shooting and not being lumbering hicks who abandon their children
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Mar 11, 2015 20:40
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I'm pretty sure the Cavaliers are in a position where the cap doesn't affect them beyond wherever the luxury tax threshold ends up. I mean, aside from LeBron, (hopefully) Love, and possibly Tristan getting paid.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:42
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We're going to give Deandre like ~20m, Ballmer's going to piss blood with the tax next season and sign a max FA the year after lmao
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Mar 11, 2015 20:45
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The Illinois High School Association found some old state basketball tournament footage from the 1930's and uploaded it to YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xutjhk-KD8 The sport has come a long way.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:49
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Randy what does this even mean???
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Mar 11, 2015 20:51
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RE: Durant and Bird comparrison: I think it's really solid, but it seems that the conclusion a lot of people make is DURANT>BIRD like it's a closed case. And there are absolutely things that Durant can do that Bird couldn't do in his dreams, and it's not even close on the defensive end. But Durant's defense isn't so great that it's why he's important, and defense wasn't so important during Bird's era that he was a liability on the floor. Durant is ultimately important for his offensive skills, so I think there's still things to discuss when comparing Bird and Durant. For much of Durant's career (basically any time but last regular season), you could put a much smaller defender on Durant and get away with it because Durant has a habit of not fighting through screens and not taking advantage of his size advantage over almost everyone (especially when you factor in the reach and the hops). With Larry, you needed someone bigger, stronger, and who was crazy athletic because despite bird's lack of athleticism he punished anyone shorter or weaker than him, and somehow got past guys who were normal atheltes by NBA standards (let alone real person standards) and had a knack for getting a shot whenever he wanted. This is the most valuable skill to have in the NBA, period. Durant still is behind Bird in that ability to just get that shot off when he wants it, and the ability to force teams to use their best defender on him. He showed shadows of it last year, but in the playoffs when the allowed contact level went up, he started to get pushed out of his spots again, and this season he hasn't really been as diligent at punishing teams that don't put proper-sized, proper-skilled defenders on him. This is a big deal in the playoffs especially because it lets teams key in on Westbrook with athletic wings which he has a little more trouble getting off against than PGs his size. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's something that cost the Thunder a title or will stop them from getting one someday, but it sure makes them work a lot harder for it than they need to. Of course, some of this is that Durant is not being fully utilized in the Thunder offense, and fact that Durant can do everything he does despite these deficiencies and we're still talking a hall of fame career. And Durant would probably loving destroy Bird one on one.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:55
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