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MJBuddy posted:If there were IT unions I'd never have been hired , and every idiot I run into wouldn't be fireable. And that's why my dad's old job had so many loving idiots. (long closed down factory)
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Mar 11, 2015 16:40
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Absolutely. And good on you. This is pretty great. It's still nuts that just saying "No, because you've given me no notice" isn't a good enough answer though.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:47
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flosofl posted:Jesus, I had to deal with that but with the infrastructure at a previous job. We spent 3 loving DAYS trying to get the router/firewall guy to unblock HTTP across our WAN link. That... Sounds about right. We had developers in India and we would spend more time explaining tasks to them than it would take for us to do the tasks ourselves. When they would come back with a completed task, it was 50/50 whether or not it worked at all. The language barrier was insane. They spoke English, and were perfectly friendly, but if they didn't understand something, they would just keep nodding, and agreeing. You get what you pay for.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:56
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Ok, it is open now
Hmm, when I telnet to port 80 I don't get any response
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No unions please, I don't want to be lumped into a group with all the incompetent people and firms my firm cleans up after, tyia.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:58
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No Unions please here either, I don't want collective bargaining and better wages. I also want to keep hearing stories about how companies are loving their employees over.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:01
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The whole concept of unions needs to be rethought. While having some sort of collective bargaining unit is definitely advantageous, too many unions turn into corrupt, self serving, protectionist havens for incompetents.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:11
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Belgium is covered in unions and they go on strike for every little thing. It is terrible. Especially when strikes involve blocking access to the parking, but not to your actual building, like the last time there was a major one. Also, public transport seems to spend more time being on strike than working. They have their use, but there is such a thing as too much unions.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:13
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Careful now, you're going to anger the downtrodden SH/SC proletariat. poo poo pissing me off: having to refer to Sourcefire stuff by its lame ciscoized name, FirePOWER.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:30
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The Fool posted:The whole concept of unions needs to be rethought. While having some sort of collective bargaining unit is definitely advantageous, too many unions turn into corrupt, self serving, protectionist havens for incompetents. Seriously, this. I'm all for fair treatment of employees (if they don't treat you fair go find another job imo) but Unions are a relic and end up being just as bad as an employer, in some cases. Maybe if your employer isn't treating you well log into their servers and start crashing the poo poo out of them, then go find another job. Same thing as a union, basically.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:31
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Gyshall posted:
With friends like you, who needs enemies? Seriously, never maliciously cause damage to an employers infrastructure, no matter how badly they treat you.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:41
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The reason why things like 40-work weeks, OHSA, paid vacation, paid holidays, emergency leave, etc exist is because of unions. Bringing unions back especially in IT would be overwhelming good thing but public opinion of them is incredibly poor. I don't know what has happened since the 20's but for whatever reason unions are largely unpopular because the free market will eliminate employee abuse and unions only protect poor employees. 
Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 17:49
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Gyshall posted:Seriously, this. I'm all for fair treatment of employees (if they don't treat you fair go find another job imo) but Unions are a relic and end up being just as bad as an employer, in some cases. You don't need a union, just commit a few felonies. This is an insane reply. Tab8715 posted:The reason why things like 40-work weeks, ... exist is because of unions. Curiously, this particular one is actually not true, although obviously I agree with your point. The 40 hour work week exists because business leaders -- Ford, I think? -- found that that was the magic number past which it wasn't worth it anymore, because workers got too exhausted if they worked more than that and productivity suffered. Sometimes I wonder if anti-union sentiment -- other than that held by the people unions negotiate with, obviously -- is based on the belief that they, personally, will never need union protections. People think that unions only protect bad employees, which isn't true, but it's the Just World fallacy at work. That said, I think it depends on the specific union. The ones we have aren't particularly strong, but I have friends in other industries who describe the union as indistinguishable from organized crime, breaking safety equipment and then kicking up a fuss about the unsafe conditions (that they caused) stuff like that. guppy fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 17:51
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You guys realize that the last line is a joke, right?
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Mar 11, 2015 17:56
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Tab8715 posted:The reason why things like 40-work weeks, OHSA, paid vacation, paid holidays, emergency leave, etc exist is because of unions. As a counterpoint, I do think that IT's general attitude toward rewarding competence over tenure has helped people take the field a bit more seriously and has sped the adoption of newer technologies. And while yes, everyone has worked with incompetent people who have been there forever (especially anyone who has worked in higher ed or the government), the industry still tends to reward those that know the most, or those who have kept up to date with current trends, over those who have been there a longest. Unions generally do not.
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Mar 11, 2015 17:58
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One thing that pisses me off is when I configure network equipment for some rinky-dink Engineering lab on our site but they insist that they can't let me have keypad access in case there's an issue. Oh what, you can't let the I.T. barbarians intrude on your little fiefdom?
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Mar 11, 2015 18:03
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psydude posted:As a counterpoint, I do think that IT's general attitude toward rewarding competence over tenure has helped people take the field a bit more seriously and has sped the adoption of newer technologies. And while yes, everyone has worked with incompetent people who have been there forever (especially anyone who has worked in higher ed or the government), the industry still tends to reward those that know the most, or those who have kept up to date with current trends, over those who have been there a longest. Unions generally do not. I agree that IT rewards those with competence more often than not but that never hasn't stopped a business from making incredibly stupid and immoral decisions. Mogomra posted:You guys realize that the last line is a joke, right? And it wasn't funny. lol im just kidding guys why you mad
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Mar 11, 2015 18:03
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It's 50 degrees outside. We just got a disk in the mail but my AS/400 guy is 'letting it warm up' before he installs the software.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:08
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Tab8715 posted:I agree that IT rewards those with competence more often than not but that never hasn't stopped a business from making incredibly stupid and immoral decisions. Unionization hasn't prevented this, either. I've also seen unions either gently caress over friends and family, or fail to defend them at about the same rate as the businesses themselves. Union-backed movements like the establishment of OSHA have fallen off in favor of collective bargaining. I'd rather have enforcement occur at the federal level, which would have the dual benefit of both ensuring union and non-union workplaces are protected while preventing the kind of anticompetitive practices (for example, preventing the adoption of new technologies and methods) that unions oftentimes engage in.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:13
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Bob Morales posted:It's 50 degrees outside. We just got a disk in the mail but my AS/400 guy is 'letting it warm up' before he installs the software. I do that sometimes, but it's also -30 outside right now.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:15
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Chalets the Baka posted:I would literally kill for an IT union. I agree with this poster, as I just today now work until 20:30 five days a week and 10% of my weekends. I get to start later, unless someone calls an 08:00 meeting, but really, how often does that happen? (answer: all the loving time.) An IT union still wouldn't survive for a lot of reasons.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:18
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I need all union talk to stop.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:22
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18 Character Limit posted:I agree with this poster, as I just today now work until 20:30 five days a week and 10% of my weekends. I get to start later, unless someone calls an 08:00 meeting, but really, how often does that happen? (answer: all the loving time.) Unions could improve your situation but it isn't going to grow you a backbone. If 8:00 meetings stretch your work day then don't attend them.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:29
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware / Software Crap > More poo poo that pisses you off: Unions
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Mar 11, 2015 18:34
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:I need all union talk to stop. Okay, but in exchange we need a health plan that isn't an HDHP.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:50
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I gave my notice at my job a while back and they decided to hire two positions in replacement. One for the helpdesk and one to do the stuff that I was doing (systems engineer/admin with some SQL DBA poo poo). I have been sitting here listening to the helpdesk manager discuss a candidate and saying things like: "well he is pretty old so we are probably just interviewing him to be nice" "Well he seems to have normal interests" "He live pretty far away" Not once did he say anything about the dude's technical acumen. Additionally for some reason the helpdesk guys are pivotal in choosing the replacement rather than the manager. I am 100% aware that the age thing is totally totally hosed up but have no idea if there is something easily done. As am amusing note the helpdesk manager is around 50 himself and the guy is maybe 2 years older? I remember that once a coworker suggested a guy in a wheelchair and the same helpdesk manager said to me in private about how the coworker is crazy and we could never hire someone in a wheelchair. Granted he probably couldn't physically do the job but talk about a hosed up thing to say.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:52
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My old boss would DQ candidates for all types of reasons. One time it was a cheap suit (we didn't have a dress code and certainly never wore suits at work.) Usually he would also justify it as "They'll have to commute too far" but this was the same guy who thought that paying a living wage wasn't his problem, so I dunno how exactly he expected to get somebody to move to the Hamptons for the job.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:55
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KennyTheFish posted:security licenses for the kit at either end (assuming cisco) and put an IPsec tunnel on it? I mean, if they want to waste the money. The fiber is running under a parking lot, to a firewall that is then encrypting it to to hand off to another entity. I don't feel like throwing another firewall out there. I think  is still the correct response.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:58
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Sickening posted:Unions could improve your situation but it isn't going to grow you a backbone. If 8:00 meetings stretch your work day then don't attend them. The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware / Software Crap > More poo poo that pisses you off: Unions could improve your situation but it isn't going to grow you a backbone
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Mar 11, 2015 19:02
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RFC2324 posted:My company is getting 16 sysadmins for $9k a year in India. That's pretty much what is going to replace most of my team in about a month or two. These folks in india are getting 8 hours of training, when most of us here were nto up to speed for at least 3 months.
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Mar 11, 2015 19:04
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Inspector_666 posted:My old boss would DQ candidates for all types of reasons. One time it was a cheap suit (we didn't have a dress code and certainly never wore suits at work.) I personally dq'd candidates for having a really long commute and I didn't really think much about it. Our workplace also isn't in an area that is hard to live close to though. People that live a reasonable distance from their job are probably more likely to enjoy their job more and stay longer. They are probably late less often or at least don't have to try to be super early all the time so they don't have to be late if there is a traffic jam. Kind of a win/win for both parties.
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Mar 11, 2015 19:21
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Sickening posted:I personally dq'd candidates for having a really long commute and I didn't really think much about it. Our workplace also isn't in an area that is hard to live close to though. No, DQing for a long commute is perfectly reasonable as long as the reason for that commute isn't "I won't pay you enough to live within an hour without traffic (there will always be traffic.)"
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Mar 11, 2015 19:24
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Sickening posted:I personally dq'd candidates for having a really long commute and I didn't really think much about it. Our workplace also isn't in an area that is hard to live close to though. Yeah the commute thing on its own doesn't bother me it is just that they literally do not care about the dude's technical acumen. I know for a fact that good candidates have been passed over because one of the helpdesk dudes felt threatened by his knowledge set. This office is weird because the helpdesk manager and one of the HD dudes are completely ignorant and do not keep up with technology at all really and then the other HD dude won't be here longer than a year more because he does. On the systems side there are two of us and it is a constant battle of one group doing things the right way and them doing it the wrong way. I actually quit because I got sick of the helpdesk manager not being a backup to the helpdesk if they needed an extra hand or anything. It seems nuts to me. Oh well I don't want to turn this into a complete bitchfest about this place since I am out of here soon anyway.
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Mar 11, 2015 19:27
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Demonachizer posted:I am 100% aware that the age thing is totally totally hosed up but have no idea if there is something easily done. As am amusing note the helpdesk manager is around 50 himself and the guy is maybe 2 years older? I remember that once a coworker suggested a guy in a wheelchair and the same helpdesk manager said to me in private about how the coworker is crazy and we could never hire someone in a wheelchair. Granted he probably couldn't physically do the job but talk about a hosed up thing to say. Both age and disability discrimination are very, very illegal and you just gave two textbook examples of them. Any sane company would want you to report all of this to HR immediately, because if what you're describing became apparent to the candidate they will sue and win. This stuff is like day 1 of management training, so I'm guessing your managers are woefully unqualified to be hiring anyone. That would be a huge red flag for me to GTFO of that environment before the poo poo hits the fan. And it will hit the fan. edit: also for schadenfreude purposes please tell us what company this is after you leave!
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Mar 11, 2015 19:32
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Sickening posted:I personally dq'd candidates for having a really long commute and I didn't really think much about it. Our workplace also isn't in an area that is hard to live close to though. The problem was that three times a week he'd either call in to say he was working from home because of traffic, or be insanely late because of traffic, or take off early because of traffic. None of those things feel like my problem.
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Mar 11, 2015 19:33
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Both age and disability discrimination are very, very illegal and you just gave two textbook examples of them. Any sane company would want you to report all of this to HR immediately, because if what you're describing became apparent to the candidate they will sue and win. Yeah I think I might do this in re the age thing. Not going to about the dude in the wheelchair as this is probably 8 years ago at this point. I am not willing to say the name of the company but nobody would know them anyway (maybe 120 total employees and no huge presence outside a tiny tiny specific part of education). The only consulting we do is a tiny tiny piece of what the company is today and it still is a very niche product.
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Mar 11, 2015 19:42
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Tell me about working for local government.
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Mar 11, 2015 19:59
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monster on a stick posted:Tell me about working for local government. pros: go in at 8 leave at 4, enjoy good health care benefits, federal holidays, do most of your work through contractors cons: bureaucracy, fat gently caress coworkers who smoke too much* * was my experience
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Mar 11, 2015 20:10
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Gyshall posted:pros: go in at 8 leave at 4, enjoy good health care benefits, federal holidays, do most of your work through contractors Go in at 9 you mean. Buddy of mine retired a few years ago, he was a SUPPLY CLERK (ordered office supplies and delivered paper) and he made $24/hr. Crazy.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:16
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A co-worker and general all around good guy from another department contacted my team to let us know he wasn't able to log into a server. I sent it over to one of the guys. My guy contacted me an hour later to let me know that he's able to log into the server. Oh, uh, so I guess we're done here, problem is solved. The gently caress do I care if you can log in, figure out why the other guy can't. e: Cleaning up some pronouns. Too many "he, he, he" involved to keep the two people straight. MC Fruit Stripe fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 20:21
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monster on a stick posted:Tell me about working for local government.
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