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Gestalt Intellect posted:Sexual violence has some important differences compared to physical violence. It's a complicated subject and this thread is not the place for it, but there are absolutely fair reasons why many people treat them differently. There are, and for anyone who is personally disturbed by that then you can simply turn it off at the beginning of the game.
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Mar 12, 2015 03:56
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Austrian mook posted:They put an option at the beginning of the game to turn off all instances of implicit sexual assault so I don't understand what the problem is? It's Hotline Miami, the whole point is that it's hyper-violent so I don't understand how an implicit rape is any worse than brutally gouging somebodies eyes out especially when there's a non-intrusive option for anyone who'd be seriously put off by such a thing. If you actually read my post you'd see that I wasn't complaining about the rape itself, I was complaining about how it didn't contribute anything to the game and was really obviously them just trying to be controversial.
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Mar 12, 2015 04:21
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Austrian mook posted:There are, and for anyone who is personally disturbed by that then you can simply turn it off at the beginning of the game. Yeah but what he was saying is that it feels like it got put in the game for no reason other than to be edgy, which according to Jonatan is not true. But it's Hotline Miami, so whether it actually does serve a deeper purpose in video games is thrown under the bus by the series' overarching idea of "nothing matters because it's a video game".
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Mar 12, 2015 04:22
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Analyzing Hotline Miami is pointless, since the game is designed to be the antithesis of people who over-analyze video games.
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Mar 12, 2015 04:35
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That's... what I just said.
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Mar 12, 2015 04:39
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CJacobs posted:That's... what I just said. Austrian mook is an idiot, pass it on. HM2 doesn't have the meta "nothing matters" angle of the first one, anyway. And that's to its detriment, because while I can get behind the idea of memetic violence tightening its grip on a whole city it's nothing I haven't seen done better before.
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Mar 12, 2015 04:41
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Away all Goats posted:Just lower the difficulty. For the most part you guys are supremely durable and don't need that much micromanagement anyway Who What Now posted:Yeah, all you really need to do is make sure Avitus is in cover and facing the right direction, Tarkus has Tactical Advance active (and should probably also be in cover), and remember to have the Force Commander equipped with medipacks, a battle standard, or both so he can pop a heal while he wrecks poo poo in melee and you're golden. Then depending on your fourth person either have Cyrus using his weapon ability to do burst DPS on high value targets, have Thaddeus jump pack, retreat, and repeat, or have THE THULENAUGHT just aimed in the right direction to unleash his holy wrath upon the enemy. That's the thing, it's not the difficulty, it's doing the above over and over, 5+ times each mission, with not a lot of variation that paradoxically requires attention to pull off.
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Mar 12, 2015 04:54
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Sleeveless posted:If you actually read my post you'd see that I wasn't complaining about the rape itself, I was complaining about how it didn't contribute anything to the game and was really obviously them just trying to be controversial. This entire conversation should just be put to bed because you could literally say the exact same thing about the brutal violence in both Hotline Miami games, but as Gestalt Intellect said earlier, it's a complicated subject that really totally does not belong in this thread.
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Mar 12, 2015 06:29
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MisterBibs posted:That's the thing, it's not the difficulty, it's doing the above over and over, 5+ times each mission, with not a lot of variation that paradoxically requires attention to pull off. It gets even better/worse when everyone is outfitted with Terminator suits. On lower difficulties you can pretty much just have them attack-move to the end of the map and just destroy everything in their way. On harder difficulties though you'll need to watch each squad closely because even though termie suits up their DPS significantly the inability to use cover really hurts. Then again if you follow build guides then it won't really matter because by the time you get Terminator Armor each squad should be able to steamroll every map by themselves, much less together. E2: I'm pretty sure Avitus in terminator armor with an assault cannon has the highest DPS in the game barring shenanigans with Cyrus' stealth ability. Who What Now has a new favorite as of 07:45 on Mar 12, 2015 |
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Mar 12, 2015 07:10
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There is also theoretically the option of playing the campaign in co-op, which takes the pressure off you by giving two squads to your buddy.
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Mar 12, 2015 17:46
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RyokoTK posted:This entire conversation should just be put to bed because you could literally say the exact same thing about the brutal violence in both Hotline Miami games, but as Gestalt Intellect said earlier, it's a complicated subject that really totally does not belong in this thread. Wait, the second game is using rape as gameplay now? 
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Mar 12, 2015 18:44
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No.
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Mar 12, 2015 18:46
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RyokoTK posted:This entire conversation should just be put to bed because you could literally say the exact same thing about the brutal violence in both Hotline Miami games, but as Gestalt Intellect said earlier, it's a complicated subject that really totally does not belong in this thread. The first game was all about violence and it used it to great effect for both its narrative and its atmosphere. Hotline Miami is like the poster child of "show, don't tell" storytelling in games, which is why a lot of people are disappointed by the more straightforward narrative in 2.
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Mar 12, 2015 19:39
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It's really nice that Hotline Miami 2 doesn't fix a single loving problem that the first game had. Since the gameplay is more about gunfights, rushing to a big pile of guns and grabbing the only empty shotgun in the mix is an intensely frustrating and stupid way to die. The complete inconsistency of which enemies aggro when you fire a gun (this time he heard me, but that time he didn't), or even where they are when you start a level, is nonsense too; when a single floor can have 20 enemies with guns, and you have to play perfectly or die immediately, enemy behavior has to be consistent and it's not at all. Also the level design is such balls. (I just finished level 11, which is really lovely, and I'm just mad about it  )
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Mar 12, 2015 20:52
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RyokoTK posted:It's really nice that Hotline Miami 2 doesn't fix a single loving problem that the first game had. Why would it? People declared the first one to be genius despite it being riddled with frustrating bullshit.
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Mar 12, 2015 23:10
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spudsbuckley posted:Why would it? It was
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Mar 12, 2015 23:27
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Der Luftwaffle posted:I've been working through a Steam backlog, just finished Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons and what drags this game down is that it's dragging ME down. After traversing vast, fantastical areas together, helping the unfortunate and outwitting dangerous foes, the game forces you to drag the dead body of your big brother to a grave and then makes you bury him. gently caress you game. Fuuuuuuuuuuck you. There's a fundamental narrative flaw of any videogame that shunts you backwards in time whenever you hit a failure mode that prevents you from carrying on the story as the developers intended. It's like those FPS games where the POV character desperately fights through an environment, and ends up getting killed in a cutscene anyway. And this is even more stark in Brothers, with a harsh difference between success-failure, where you die at a single mistake. Through the game, one of the two brothers have been disembowelled by wolves, crushed, impaled, and have fallen into countless pits. Every time that occurs, you rewind back in time to before the event occurs, and the game continues as the devs intended. But not this time. Big brother gets stabbed in the side in the dying death throes of a boss, and instead of rewinding back in time so you could pass a quicktime event to dodge that fateful attack, your time travel powers arbitrarily decide to stop working and big brother dies. Nevertheless, the sequence right afterwards is done extremely well. The player falls into the mindset of little brother, where they desperately try to clamber up the magic tree to find something that would save big brother. And it doesn't work, because the brother has already bled out, and the magic tree can only heal, not bring the dead back from life.
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Mar 12, 2015 23:47
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RareAcumen posted:Wait, the second game is using rape as gameplay now? Oh god the entire conversation must look horrible out of context.
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Mar 13, 2015 01:22
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CJacobs posted:No. Well shucks, now I'm just totally lost on how brutal violence gameplay could be removed from it and still have something to play. Would it just be Uncharted as a beat em up?
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Mar 13, 2015 02:47
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RareAcumen posted:Well shucks, now I'm just totally lost on how brutal violence gameplay could be removed from it and still have something to play. Would it just be Uncharted as a beat em up? I'm not sure what you're responding to, I was just saying 'no' in response to "wait, the second game is using rape as gameplay now? stare". Funnily enough there is a character in Hotline 2 who addresses your question. You can't kill people as him unless you try really hard, and he dismantles guns when you pick them up for score bonuses. You basically have to smack people with melee weapons until they go down and wiggle on the floor, but the only way you can kill them is by mashing the execution button on them.
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Mar 13, 2015 02:54
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Final Fantasy 14: Trials being in the low level duty roulette. Low level roulette randomly places you in a low level dungeon where someone needs party members and pays out in a nice chunk of xp, also there is a challenge log for doing 3 dungeons. But trials aren't dungeons, and if you're say DPS who was hoping for a dungeon to get all the xp you get from killing things as well as completing both challenge logs for doing 5 dungeons and doing 3 dungeons through the roulette and waited like 30+ minutes in the queue.. and you get loving ifrit. 5 minutes later you're out with a lovely xp payout compared to running a dungeon. They have an actual trial roulette, why can't these be thrown into there? Or just make trials count for the challenge log? Now I need to sit through another 30+ minutes and hope that I'm not thrown into another trial just to get this challenge log done.
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Mar 13, 2015 04:15
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CJacobs posted:I'm not sure what you're responding to, I was just saying 'no' in response to "wait, the second game is using rape as gameplay now? stare". Eh, it was more talking to the void for the second sentence.
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Mar 13, 2015 04:33
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Leal posted:Final Fantasy 14: Trials being in the low level duty roulette. Low level roulette randomly places you in a low level dungeon where someone needs party members and pays out in a nice chunk of xp, also there is a challenge log for doing 3 dungeons. But trials aren't dungeons, and if you're say DPS who was hoping for a dungeon to get all the xp you get from killing things as well as completing both challenge logs for doing 5 dungeons and doing 3 dungeons through the roulette and waited like 30+ minutes in the queue.. and you get loving ifrit. 5 minutes later you're out with a lovely xp payout compared to running a dungeon. Honestly I love when I get an Ifrit. You get a solid XP bonus for the completion. I know the DPS queues suck but I usually fill the void with Fates/levequests while I wait. This also has the double benefit of triggering those challenge bonuses.
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Mar 13, 2015 15:23
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Majoras Mask for having some crappy remnants of 64 controls.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:30
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RyokoTK posted:It's really nice that Hotline Miami 2 doesn't fix a single loving problem that the first game had. Since the gameplay is more about gunfights, rushing to a big pile of guns and grabbing the only empty shotgun in the mix is an intensely frustrating and stupid way to die. The complete inconsistency of which enemies aggro when you fire a gun (this time he heard me, but that time he didn't), or even where they are when you start a level, is nonsense too; when a single floor can have 20 enemies with guns, and you have to play perfectly or die immediately, enemy behavior has to be consistent and it's not at all. Also the level design is such balls. No, you are an idiot. Hotline miame 1 & 2 is not in any way about route optimization and muscle memory. The enemies walk random paths for a reason: you have to be quick and think on your feet. Its genius and the fact that you are a grumpy sperg pining for some good old speedrun-gameplay wont change that. gently caress you
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Mar 14, 2015 14:46
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Curdy Lemonstan posted:No, you are an idiot. Hotline miame 1 & 2 is not in any way about route optimization and muscle memory. The enemies walk random paths for a reason: you have to be quick and think on your feet. Its genius and the fact that you are a grumpy sperg pining for some good old speedrun-gameplay wont change that. gently caress you Haha are you for real? Am I being joked at right now? *looks around for a camera* Haha this clown must be joking with this random spew of insults for no reason. Hotline 2 has all of the problems that guy mentioned and he didn't even say anything about route optimization in the first place.
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Mar 14, 2015 14:55
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Curdy Lemonstan posted:No, you are an idiot. Hotline miame 1 & 2 is not in any way about route optimization and muscle memory. The enemies walk random paths for a reason: you have to be quick and think on your feet. Its genius and the fact that you are a grumpy sperg pining for some good old speedrun-gameplay wont change that. gently caress you Half the fun of this thread is seeing people who insist on defending something in a game but I think this tops every other post.
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Mar 14, 2015 15:05
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Dream sequences in Baldur's Gate 2 Baldur's Gate in general had some pretty good writing (up until the Throne of Bhaal) for a high fantasy RPG. But those dream sequences took the proverbial dead horse and drove it home where they have beaten it until it was run to the ground. Not only it was a boring text dump, but when Irenicus goes on to "show" you your potential, it's just tiny little sprites falling over or something. It's like when your 5 year old cousin wants to tell you about the awesome movie they saw, using explosion sound effects exclusively. To be fair tho, by the end of the game I was out for revenge for those cutscenes alone. I became the lord of murder just because of some elf mage sperging about gods in my dreams. gently caress Imoen.
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Mar 14, 2015 15:11
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I'm really not sure how people come away from Hotline Miami, a game about being a literally insane murderer on a chaotic killing spree, and say "this dumb game is too chaotic and unpredictable!" Sometimes you just get hosed by the RNG, which is why the game lets you reload immediately with no penalty or load time. The game isn't about figuring out the one correct route, it's about zoning out and reacting moment to moment and just going for it. It's not Hitman.
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Mar 14, 2015 18:47
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DStecks posted:I'm really not sure how people come away from Hotline Miami, a game about being a literally insane murderer on a chaotic killing spree, and say "this dumb game is too chaotic and unpredictable!" Sometimes you just get hosed by the RNG, which is why the game lets you reload immediately with no penalty or load time. No penalty or load time* *may require 20 minutes to reclear the floor before being shot from off screen again
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Mar 14, 2015 19:08
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kazil posted:No penalty or load time* TIL playing a game is a load time.
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Mar 14, 2015 19:11
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DStecks posted:I'm really not sure how people come away from Hotline Miami, a game about being a literally insane murderer on a chaotic killing spree, and say "this dumb game is too chaotic and unpredictable!" Sometimes you just get hosed by the RNG, which is why the game lets you reload immediately with no penalty or load time. Hotline 2 turned "sometimes" into "all the time" so I disagree.
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Mar 14, 2015 19:24
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DStecks posted:I'm really not sure how people come away from Hotline Miami, a game about being a literally insane murderer on a chaotic killing spree, and say "this dumb game is too chaotic and unpredictable!" Sometimes you just get hosed by the RNG, which is why the game lets you reload immediately with no penalty or load time. The difference is that Hotline Miami 1 had much more controlled chaos; it mostly used levels made of small rooms and hallways so you were always aware of your surroundings and made progress in reasonably-sized chunks so you could experiment and go with the flow, and if you got stuck or needed to shake things up the weapon drops were randomized and you could pick what mask you used so it was never the same thing twice. Hotline Miami 2 has levels that are big and open areas with a few smaller rooms within them, and the open areas are often larger than you can see even if you move the camera around so a lot of the gameplay comes down to rote trial-and-error memorization of where the enemies with guns are so don't get sniped from the other side of the level by a grunt you can't even see. And then HM2 even further limits you by restricting your weapon loadouts to the characters the game assigns for each level, and then later in the game populating the levels with large numbers of enemies that are immune to melee weapons or guns and filling levels with windows that enemies can see and shoot through. Or, to put it more simply: 
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Mar 14, 2015 19:34
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I have not played Hotline Miami 2, so it may very well be dog anus. However, Curdy Lemonstan's post clearly implied that this was a "problem" with Hotline Miami 1, where it was the core element of the gameplay, which was what I intended to address.
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Mar 14, 2015 20:01
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Yeah, Hotline Miami 2's levels are definitely way too big for the style of gameplay it's going for. Thankfully, the level editor should be coming out at any time.
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Mar 14, 2015 20:26
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Vic posted:Dream sequences in Baldur's Gate 2 Strom, from memory posted:LIfe, is strength. This is not to be contested, it seems logical enough: You live, you affect your world. Irenicus, from the game script posted:Life... is strength. This is not to be contested; it seems logical enough. You live; you affect your world. But is it what you want? You are... different inside. This woman lives and has strength of a sort. She lost her parents to plague, her husband to war, but she persevered. Her farm has prospered, her name is respected and her children are fed and safe. She lived as she thought she should. And now she is dead. Her land will be divided, her children will move on, and she will be forgotten. She lived a good life, but she had no power; she was a slave to death. I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings? I merged into one of the other dreams towards the end there, but my point stands - those dreams kick arse.
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Mar 14, 2015 21:42
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people posted:Hotline Miami plot Honestly what dragged it down for me is that they advertised the game as trying to be somewhat more plot focused and cerebral with it. I get the message they're trying to send with it but starting to develop the Fans as characters, then killing them all before it pays off? I really do get what they're trying to do but I don't like it. "It's about expecations" yeah well I guess you did a good job with that dennaton because I expected you to be sincere about everything you said pre-release. The only plot that really goes anywhere is Manny the Detective's but it's kind of obvious he's going to be the killer considering he was literally named after a real life serial killer who was also a cop. Also anything involving nukes in that game makes no sense. I'd be willing to forgive the massive letdown that is the plot if the levels were better designed but a bunch of them really aren't. For example none of the Son's missions are very friendly to the dirty hands technique because you've got to pop in and out of view of 30 guys with guns. DStecks posted:I have not played Hotline Miami 2, so it may very well be dog anus. However, Curdy Lemonstan's post clearly implied that this was a "problem" with Hotline Miami 1, where it was the core element of the gameplay, which was what I intended to address. As an example, the biggest levels in Hotline Miami is comparable in size to a single floor of the biggest levels in HLM2 like Blood Money. Cuntellectual has a new favorite as of 23:25 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 23:16
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I merged into one of the other dreams towards the end there, but my point stands - those dreams kick arse. I'm so sorry.
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Mar 15, 2015 01:22
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I merged into one of the other dreams towards the end there, but my point stands - those dreams kick arse. Also Hotline Miami 2 sounds like literally everything I don't like about 1. I loved 1, played it to perfection in one day of having the flu and slightly hallucinating, which I believe was the perfect way to experience it - the only bits I didn't like were the parts that it sounds like make up the entirety of 2. I'll wait for a sale I guess but im sad 
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Mar 15, 2015 02:06
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:No they're terrible and that's terrible writing. Wait until the level editor is out and see if people do good things with it imo.
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Mar 15, 2015 03:58
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