|
The Iron Rose posted:the point is that the not a choice argument implies that, were being gay to be a choice, no one would choose to be gay. It shouldn't, but in my experience it's they reason gay people aren't being lynched en masse in the South. I've been told point blank that they believe gays are abominations but that's just they way God made 'em.
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 16:48 |
|
|
Kajeesus posted:No it doesn't? It's just a refutation of bullshit. I think the point is the implications of the argument - you can't discriminate against aspects of people that isn't their choice (race, gender, religion), but you can discriminate against things that people choose for themselves (what their hair looks like, if they're wearing a shirt, etc). If someone says that being gay is a choice, it implies that that would make it ok to discriminate against them, and by saying "but being gay isn't a choice" the undercurrent to that argument is "they can't choose, which is what makes it bad to discriminate; if they could choose, it would be fine" when the point is that you shouldn't be allowed to discriminate against gay people whether or not it's a choice. Even if everybody could choose to be gay or not 12 times a day, it would be fine.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:36
|
|
|
Kajeesus posted:I guess I'm lucky I've never had to argue gay rights with anyone, but I really don't understand where you're coming from. Has anyone ever said that if you could prove that homosexuality is a choice, they'd be totally down with oppressing the gays? There are absolutely people who believe that if you can establish that homosexuality is not a choice, then homosexuals should not have civil rights protections. Alveda C. King, via Conservapedia posted:...there is a larger body of science represented even by the above scientists that agrees that mature behavior patterns rely much more on social shaping and choices than genetic predisposition, such that these behaviors may be successfully modified by a variety of means. The food addict may eat responsibly, the alcoholic may drink responsibly or not at all, and the homosexual may live according to a wide range of choices as well. Thus, binge drinking, overeating, cocaine abuse and other behaviors do not have to be granted public latitude as a matter of right in this great nation. Certainly, these and other mutable behaviors may be practiced; they may be under constitutional protection in fact (under our privacy clauses), but they may not be granted civil rights or public protection.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:37
|
|
|
Hasters posted:It shouldn't, but in my experience it's they reason gay people aren't being lynched en masse in the South. I've been told point blank that they believe gays are abominations but that's just they way God made 'em. Don't get me wrong, I care about what works way more than the fact that it's mildly 'problematic'.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:37
|
|
Cat Army 
|
I've literally learned an important fact I got wrong all my life from a JJ comic. The burning shame of it all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:40
|
|
|
The Iron Rose posted:Don't get me wrong, I care about what works way more than the fact that it's mildly 'problematic'.  " crowd, but I don't think it's a sin to point out the issues with saying stuff like that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:44
|
|
|
WarpedNaba posted:Oh god drat it, why did I have to learn about Pratchett's death here? I actually managed not to catch that. I guess my brain did not want me to know about the death of my favorite author. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:45
|
|
|
If it makes people feel better, Pratchett wanted to die and would have done so sooner had it not been for euthanasia laws. What really sucks is the whole Alzheimer's thing 
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:46
|
|
|
I've never seen someone say it's not a choice, unless it's as a direct response to someone saying it is. I guess that's why I'd never read anything into it.Hasters posted:It shouldn't, but in my experience it's they reason gay people aren't being lynched en masse in the South. I've been told point blank that they believe gays are abominations but that's just they way God made 'em. Not My Leg posted:There are absolutely people who believe that if you can establish that homosexuality is not a choice, then homosexuals should not have civil rights protections. Okay there are some messed up people out there 
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:47
|
|
|
He intended to end himself before he lost control of his facilities, I wonder if he finally got the dignified death he'd been looking for? e: Reading through the bbc article, it appears he didn't get the option to end himself. But surrounded by family and friends (and a cat) ain't so bad, all things reckoned  
WarpedNaba fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Mar 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:56
|
|
|
Rorus Raz posted:I'm actually not a huge fan of the "not a choice" argument so eh. It's just got a nasty implication that your attractions are awful and sinful but you can't help it so I guess it's okay. How? By that logic being black is a sinful and awful thing that people just have to live with. It being a fundamental part of who you are doesn't make it bad. The Iron Rose posted:the point is that the not a choice argument implies that, were being gay to be a choice, no one would choose to be gay. It should be a perfectly wonderful way to live your life, but gigantic bigots exist, so its still a far harder life than you'd have if you were straight. Hasters posted:It shouldn't, but in my experience it's they reason gay people aren't being lynched en masse in the South. I've been told point blank that they believe gays are abominations but that's just they way God made 'em. Since when has that stopped anyone in the south from lynching?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:57
|
|
|
Fulchrum posted:Since when has that stopped anyone in the south from lynching? Since a lot of "they gays" are rich and white.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:57
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:This is actually kind of funny and suits his artwork better. He should have only done this for most of his career. Hey, Beeg, this Disney thing was Glenn's work, right? So, I'm curious, has Gary ever drawn anything worth a drat outside of their political cartoons and joint comic strip? *a hurricane of tumbleweed blows through and destroys the thread* CampingCarl posted:The flag on the right should be blue with the seal on it. Rall made it Hello Kitty? Incisive commentary.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 22:58
|
|
|
Fulchrum posted:How? By that logic being black is a sinful and awful thing that people just have to live with. It being a fundamental part of who you are doesn't make it bad. Because it's who I am, and I gladly suffer all the indignities of homophobia to be who and what I am and want to be. If there were a pill I could take to make me be interested in men I'd punch the person offering it in the jaw, because gently caress that. Besides other women are way better in bed then men are.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 23:03
|
|
|
The Iron Rose posted:Because it's who I am, and I gladly suffer all the indignities of homophobia to be who and what I am and want to be. If there were a pill I could take to make me be interested in men I'd punch the person offering it in the jaw, because gently caress that. Yeah, its who you are, its who you were born as. You didn't reach puberty as a sexless child and decide "Hmm, do I want to be a hetero, or experience my family considering disowning me, a prominent political party constantly calling me a child molester, be denied basic rights, have my employment easily terminated, and in general lead a harder life?" If you were offered that decision now, you'd stand by it, but thats not the question. Its about someone who is neither gay nor straight choosing one way or the other.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 23:12
|
|
|
You are saying that people wouldn't choose to be gay because of bigotry and people being lovely in general. Not because there is any inherently wrong or right thing with gayness in itself. That's not a choice made by what they want, but rather a choice made out of fear which really isn't much of a choice.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 23:17
|
|
|
Its a conscious decision based on the reality of the situation as it exists, with all factors considered. That is a choice. If we only allow that a choice must be between two equally good options, then sexuality is not a choice by definition due to the aforementioned bigots who won't shut up and go away. Heck, the whole point of saying its a choice is claiming that what they want is not a factor in making this choice, its the very thing they are choosing. They chose to like the same gender, so they like the same gender. Why did they choose that? Something something someething gay agenda who the gently caress cares what those idiots think its just going to be retarded. In a perfect, more tolerant world, there could be grounds to consider that sexuality may be a choice. But we don't live in that world, so the people who argue it are usually the best proof why they're wrong. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Mar 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 23:26
|
|
|
 
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2015 23:54
|
|
|
WarpedNaba posted:He intended to end himself before he lost control of his facilities, I wonder if he finally got the dignified death he'd been looking for? Oh drat it all why did you post that 
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 00:24
|
|
|
I was going to make an edit to say he is fugly, but okay. Great minds think alike.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 00:24
|
|
|
Like anyone would mock his poor cat.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 00:54
|
|
|
The Iron Rose posted:Because it's who I am, and I gladly suffer all the indignities of homophobia to be who and what I am and want to be. If there were a pill I could take to make me be interested in men I'd punch the person offering it in the jaw, because gently caress that. I wish there was a pill you could take that would make you not be a smug chickenhawk.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 01:00
|
|
|
WarpedNaba posted:He intended to end himself before he lost control of his facilities, I wonder if he finally got the dignified death he'd been looking for? I swear to God I'm going to smite someone. Terry didn't choose to die because he didn't have to make the choice. He died naturally before losing his faculties. So yes, he did get the dignified death he wanted.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 01:14
|
|
|
 Guardian:  "Steve Bell on Farage's call to scrap anti-discrimination laws – Ukip leader Nigel Farage says Britain should scrap some of its current anti-discrimination laws in favour of legislation that does not seek to ‘divide people’" (based on these old signs) Telegraph:  Lib Dem Ibrahim Taguri quits party amid donation claims Wednesday's Times:  Nato 2% defence spending target should be met, MPs say After Alfred Leete. Yesterday's Times:  Islamic State crisis: The 13-year-old on 'righteous path' Mail: Mac on... Ex-wives seeking bonus divorce settlements  Edit: Independent: 
Cloud Potato fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Mar 13, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 01:39
|
|
|
Venom Snake posted:Just because he occasionally makes a not poo poo cartoon doesn't mean he's worthy of respect. The dude legit thinks that drones are terminators come from the Obammunist future to destroy all freedom. Maybe you have trouble with the concept, but people are allowed to have different opinions, even stupid lovely wrong ones, and still be worthy of respect. Stantis is clearly capable of reflection and critical thinking, and that shows in his cartoons. He's coming at it from a different angle, based on some crappy perceptions, but he puts some thought into what he chooses to support.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 01:46
|
|
|
loquacius posted:So JJ McCullough did a longform comic on The Nib showcasing female rulers throughout history. I'm not gonna post the entire thing but here's a snippet so this post doesn't get lost in the shuffle: JJ should just stick to stuff like this so I can enjoy his art rather than be disappointed by his terrible opinions.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 01:51
|
|
|
 1 2 3
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 02:09
|
|
|
In any other cartoon, Obama would respond with "the dogs?" and then the other guy would respond "No, the Secret Service Agents", but Luckovich knows all he needs to do is prominently place a picture of the dogs and he knows we'll get the expectation. I gotta hand it to him, that's pretty subtle for a political cartoonist.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 02:20
|
|
|
Lookit those goofy dogs 
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 02:28
|
|
|
In a conservative cartoon those dogs would have been eaten.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 02:34
|
|
|
 AGC.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 02:51
|
|
|
Sir Rolo posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY8_7LWDx0w
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 02:55
|
|
|
NEED TOILET PAPER posted:Lookit those goofy dogs Luckovich draws the best animals. I wish I could find the herding cats one he did some time ago, it was really cute
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 02:56
|
|
|
Mahuum Aqoha posted:Luckovich draws the best animals. I wish I could find the herding cats one he did some time ago, it was really cute This one? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 03:14
|
|
|
Having not actually read the comic, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that none of that was or will ever be said by Obama. The following is probably more accurate.  I really hate Muir's "Presidential Machiavellian Monologue while viewing the front of the White House" comics. Feels like nothing but projection.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 05:07
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 05:26
|
|
|
God loving DAMMIT. We've already been over this, Tinsley! I know you've got a two week delay but loving CHRIST this was a stupid goddamn talking point back then and now it's just pathetic. No-one can make me angry like a drunk idiot dragging up a two-week old pile of bullshit and pretending to have some sort of witty spin on it. Especially when that 'witty spin' is basically repeating the old take, 'He won't say it because he's an evil traitor.' Meanwhile, the 47 traitors have backpedalled to the point of claiming that the letter was a prank and that the President doesn't have a sense of humour.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 05:42
|
|
|
there wolf posted:This one? Is that Grumpy Cat? That's Grumpy Cat.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 05:42
|
|
|
What is supposed to be the value of calling it Islamic extremism again? Like I know it's actually that they're bigoted fucks who are upset that Obama isn't launching screeds at all of Islam, but what's the cover story? Its strategic value in the conflict against ISIS is to . . . ?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 06:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 16:48 |
|
|
Jonny Angel posted:What is supposed to be the value of calling it Islamic extremism again? Like I know it's actually that they're bigoted fucks who are upset that Obama isn't launching screeds at all of Islam, but what's the cover story? Its strategic value in the conflict against ISIS is to . . . ?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2015 06:02
|
|
