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Alien Rope Burn posted:Ticks and the Battle Wheel would be an interesting mechanic in a good game that used it well, but Exalted 2e is not that game.
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Mar 13, 2015 03:26
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Night10194 posted:Feng Shui's combat ticks were a terrible mechanic too, mind. They don't work well in a highly freeform narrative heavy fighting system. Nor did most of the other combat rules!
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Mar 13, 2015 03:34
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Zereth posted:Don't forget that weapons which used less ticks to attack generally also had higher Rate so you could fit more attacks in a flurry. So you got way more than twice as many attacks out of a weapon which was twice as fast. Yeah. Granted, there were better ways to break the game (mostly by cranking Overwhelming to the point of no return and then exploiting Solar charms to eliminate any defense that stopped your first attack), but combining flurries with speed reducers was a good way to make the combat grind down to the RPG equivalent of water torture.
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Mar 13, 2015 04:21
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Legends of the Wulin Interlude I'm trying to assemble a one-shot. Would y'all look at some character sheets and provide commentary? Don't worry too much about the exact point values, I fudged them to keep things interesting, just answer whether at least one of them looks fun to play. https://docs.google.com/document/d/17NP_bK8x-amilmkIHSnz-GsFBFCjcycyYSHRUR0CVpM/edit Our lineup includes: A reformed poisoner trying to be the Lesser Evil (by killing all the Greater Evils) A drunken monk who can provide Chi conditions with booze, and has the best contacts. A courtier who can work his arts stealthily and is a very focused duelist A traditionalist warrior who can train people in Warrior Arts and is rather a tank, to boot. Someone who can run on air to chase down his quarry Someone with two types of elemental chi, to showcase that system and its potency. Also to play with the Ripple system.
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Mar 13, 2015 04:41
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dwarf74 posted:I love the shot counter. Since there's no complex maps and whatnot, it serves the system very well. I have the same problem with it I have with any 'One stat lets you take more actions and do more things' system. High Spd is highly overvalued by having an action point system, especially when Ref was linked to every major combat skill, too. Note: Still talking about FS1. I can't remember if FS2 ported over the shot counter or not, as it's been a long time since I looked at the draft and decided it didn't fix my fundamental issues with the mechanics and I'd rather back Pathologic.
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Mar 13, 2015 05:08
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Feng Shui 2 is good, and Robin D Laws is easily one of the top 5 tabletop RPG dudes of all time I'm really sad about Terry Pratchett.
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Mar 13, 2015 05:48
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Eh, I love Feng Shui, but honestly its a bit of a dinosaur systemwise at this point. It had an important role in helping forge the path that lead to stuff like Fate and Apocalypse World though.
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Mar 13, 2015 06:03
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I love the setting. I'm not sure what system I'd run it in, but after around 5 FS campaigns, you start to really hate the d6-d6 mechanic.
Night10194 fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 06:07
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Zereth posted:Don't forget that weapons which used less ticks to attack generally also had higher Rate so you could fit more attacks in a flurry. So you got way more than twice as many attacks out of a weapon which was twice as fast. Ugh. yeah, i remember my huge person high str PC also just maxing dex and using jade short swords instead of something suitably large.
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Mar 13, 2015 06:50
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Simian_Prime posted:It is. It's a shame. Got a link to their response on rpg.net? Just curious.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:07
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I think wanting Exalted to be less complex is missing a key component of what people like about Exalted. Though having a FATE conversion book for you rules light people would be good too.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:27
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Are there any RPGs where people legitimately enjoy the combat mechanics as mechanics? Like, beyond the narrative it creates, actually have fun fighting because of the mechanics?
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Mar 13, 2015 07:27
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Last Stand's rules are 95% combat and that game loving owns.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:30
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I like Pathfinder fight mechanics if you're using Path of War/Tome of Battle. I really don't see what's so weird about people enjoying rpg fight mechanics. Heck there are people who enjoy grinding in Korea MMOs, apparently a whole fuckton of them and that's something I'll never be able to understand.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:31
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Night10194 posted:Are there any RPGs where people legitimately enjoy the combat mechanics as mechanics? Like, beyond the narrative it creates, actually have fun fighting because of the mechanics? D&D4E. Legends of the Wulin/Weapons of the Gods is supposed to be pretty fun though I haven't gotten a chance to play it myself.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:32
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Oh, I'm not asking in a dismissive way; I'm asking because I want to read/study some new systems that 'get it right', so to speak.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:32
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Mr. Maltose posted:Last Stand's rules are 95% combat and that game loving owns. I spent 30 seconds checking DriveThru and the Funhaver website; where do I buy it? This is the giant monsters fighting each other game, right?
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Mar 13, 2015 07:35
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Captain Walker posted:I spent 30 seconds checking DriveThru and the Funhaver website; where do I buy it? This is the giant monsters fighting each other game, right? You buy it nowhere... because it's free! http://tinyurl.com/laststandcollection It's bug-armored hero team fighting giant monsters, mostly. I can't remember whether the giant robot rules were a thing that ever happened or not.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:41
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AFAIK they're still happening, gonna be the last thing Mikan does before leaving the industry in the dust.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:48
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Night10194 posted:Are there any RPGs where people legitimately enjoy the combat mechanics as mechanics? Like, beyond the narrative it creates, actually have fun fighting because of the mechanics? I like D&D 4E's combat because it's never boring: it's always shift this, grapple that, miss on attack this, directed attack that. You don't necessarily have to make an effort to make a dramatic narration of how you totally owned that dude because the ownage is mechanically supported and the drama comes "for free", and even as a DM I know I can play the monsters as intelligently as they're entitled to be (or even moreso) and the characters will always have the tools to be able to deal with it. I want to try a game of 3.PF with Tome of Battle / Path of War classes, as well as 13th Age for much the same reasons. EDIT: I also managed to recreate WoW's Four Horsemen encounter in D&D Basic and the players had a great time trying to "unpack" that particular encounter, but that's mostly because by then we had throw out most of the rules.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:54
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gradenko_2000 posted:I like D&D 4E's combat because it's never boring: it's always shift this, grapple that, miss on attack this, directed attack that. You don't necessarily have to make an effort to make a dramatic narration of how you totally owned that dude because the ownage is mechanically supported and the drama comes "for free", and even as a DM I know I can play the monsters as intelligently as they're entitled to be (or even moreso) and the characters will always have the tools to be able to deal with it. D&D 4E is one of the best RPGs when it comes to the Game part of the role playing. Relatively well balanced and simple, full of options, versatility, and depth when you get into a fight. It's like a well deigned video game.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:59
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gradenko_2000 posted:I like D&D 4E's combat because it's never boring: it's always shift this, grapple that, miss on attack this, directed attack that. You don't necessarily have to make an effort to make a dramatic narration of how you totally owned that dude because the ownage is mechanically supported and the drama comes "for free", and even as a DM I know I can play the monsters as intelligently as they're entitled to be (or even moreso) and the characters will always have the tools to be able to deal with it. A well-run 4E combat encounter is basically a puzzle of sorts. Monsters all have abilities and powers that gently caress with you and your ability to kill them in an organized fashion...these ones teleport, this one phases every other turn, this guy has an aura around him that makes life suck for anyone close to him, etc...and so the general tempo of a fight goes: 1). Players go into things blind, poking things with sharp sticks to see how they react. 2). Monsters do all kinds of crazy poo poo, apply liberal amounts of pressure. 3). Now that the players know what the deal is, how do they use their own abilities to counteract all that, rally, and win, hopefully without having to burn all their limited resources in the process.
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Mar 13, 2015 08:04
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NutritiousSnack posted:D&D 4E is one of the best RPGs when it comes to the Game part of the role playing. Relatively well balanced and simple, full of options, versatility, and depth when you get into a fight. It's like a well deigned video game. p much this. I play almost exclusively pbta games these days, but I had a lot of fun playing 4E. And STRIKE seems to be a good successor for 'everything I liked about 4E, and tearing out stuff I didn't like.'
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Mar 13, 2015 08:05
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Eh, I love Feng Shui, but honestly its a bit of a dinosaur systemwise at this point. It had an important role in helping forge the path that lead to stuff like Fate and Apocalypse World though. There is (of course) a free AW hack of Feng Shui. Maybe not the best designed thing ever, but it strikes me as a better system for the genre than original FS.
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Mar 13, 2015 08:49
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I have a lot of fun with combat in GURPS, but my group does not use all the overcomplicated rules. To be fair the game makes it very clear that they are optional.
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Mar 13, 2015 08:54
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Covok posted:Got a link to their response on rpg.net? Just curious. Here you go. I think it's pretty telling that so many of the Ex3 developers are current and former rpg.net mods. That whole site seems like it's stuck in 2001.
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Mar 13, 2015 09:17
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Simian_Prime posted:Here you go. You know what, at least the first two pages of responses seem pretty reasonable and respectful. There is clearly a market for this sort of gigantic crunchtastic games, so I'm not sure what exactly is the problem here? I have never read an Exalted manual, but as long as the system's various bits and bobs work I don't see a problem.
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Mar 13, 2015 09:40
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Yeah, I'm not personally a fan of Exalted, but it's still clear to me that a lot of people in its target audience actually want a crunchy game with clearly defined powers straight out of the box. Just looking at the Exalted 3e thread here reveals that most of the reactions from people are to the effect of "Hey, this is cool" and not "This is not rules-light Storygame enough!" I understand where Brian Clevinger is coming from: he's a fan of the aesthetic of Exalted but not of its system, so he's made a pretty neat hack of his own favorite system for running Exalted. That's great an all, but looking at things from outside the Exalted fan circles it seems that most Exalted fans actually want something more meaty and crunchy than that. Having said that, if what you like about Exalted is its aesthetic of anime swordsmen and sorcerers doing epic battles in a mythical setting inspired by many different world mythologies, I'd actually recommend Anima Prime, which is basically an anime/JRPG emulator. I've been personally thinking of using it for a heavily BlazBlue influenced game.
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Mar 13, 2015 10:03
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The problem is that the mechanical approach (lots and lots of pointlessly complicated crunch) isn't well-suited to the aesthetics (cool mythic fights in the age of the gods where everything was possible, Creation wasn't fully formed yet and we had magitech!)
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 10:06
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PurpleXVI posted:When Holden was in the 3E Exalted thread, people gave him constructive critique on Abyssals(it was related to the creepy as gently caress rape ghost charm tree they had, and I think still have), and his response was that he was legally barred from taking suggestions from people. I think trying to negotiate with the 3E Exalted devs is a lost cause. Yeah, this kind of thing is common in the creative industries. Basically, they don't want some rear end in a top hat calling them up one day threatening to sue because they used his totally cool idea that he told them about once and didn't pay him any royalties for. Sometimes they even had the same idea already, but have never mentioned it publicly. The way to get around it for e.g. playtesting is to make people sign agreements that basically say the company owns all the intellectual rights to anything you tell them related to playtesting, but it's not very practical for a forum thread... It sounds silly when it comes to simple, short suggestions for changes to things, but you get the "NO UNSOLICITED MATERIAL" mantra drilled into you pretty hard and told to play it safe. Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 10:15
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PurpleXVI posted:But come now, then you'd miss out on the anti-fiat currency rant and the city where they produce superbabies via gangbangs, including accidental mega-CHUD's that they for some reason flushed into the sewers rather than kill. quote:The people of Volivat are called the Yennin, which means “Children of Ten Fathers” in their When I read about mad wizards discovering a secret formula to create strange mutants, I often think "oh, this must mean a gangbang". I find thinking this way helps me to be an idiot, which is useful in my day-to-day life of sitting in an echo chamber of gross tittering
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Mar 13, 2015 10:18
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"Well, he's got your eyes. And Frank's arms. And Steiner's lungs...." Huh. That actually sounds a lot like a mysticised version of the practices of some matrilineal ethnic group in southern China. A professor I had a few years back was doing studying the myths of that region, though she was mostly studying snake cults. I think the short of it is, it's one of those "Paternity is mever certain the way maternity is" things, combined with children being raised in their mother's household. EDIT: On the other hand, they need to have an editor go over and redo the "each contributing to a single child" part because it's slightly confusing wording. EDIT EDIT: Check your privilege. Rockopolis fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 12:39
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Ratpick posted:Yeah, I'm not personally a fan of Exalted, but it's still clear to me that a lot of people in its target audience actually want a crunchy game with clearly defined powers straight out of the box.
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Mar 13, 2015 12:54
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Rockopolis posted:"Well, he's got your eyes. And Frank's arms. And Steiner's lungs...." "My Ten Dads" as a weekly sitcom Edit: I think the precise problem with Volivat is that it leaves the mechanics of the ritual up to your imagination, and RPG players have pretty fuckd imaginations, on average. Bedlamdan fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 13:59
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Yawgmoth posted:I am totally down with a crunchy game with clearly defined powers and all that, what I'm against is complexity for the sake of complexity. What good does having multiple "I move out of the way" stats accomplish? How does having a huge map of charm trees improve the game, and does that improvement mitigate the level of character creation difficulty such a thing creates? I don't think that these or any other important game design questions have ever been asked of the Exalted devs, let alone been adequately answered by them or the game they make. That's more or less where my issues with Exalted lie--it seemed like it was just complex for the sake of complexity and wasn't helped by the fact that WW starting point levels are barely enough to create a sheltered sixteen year old. I am perfectly fine with the idea of playing a diminished remnant of a demigod trying to work back up, but paying all that charm tax and just keeping track of what all the drat things do was a big turnoff on one of the more creative and engaging fantasy game settings out there.
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Mar 13, 2015 15:02
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Night10194 posted:I have the same problem with it I have with any 'One stat lets you take more actions and do more things' system. High Spd is highly overvalued by having an action point system, especially when Ref was linked to every major combat skill, too. Night10194 posted:Are there any RPGs where people legitimately enjoy the combat mechanics as mechanics? Like, beyond the narrative it creates, actually have fun fighting because of the mechanics?
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Mar 13, 2015 16:24
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After picking up Star Realms and the Ascension "Apprentice" pack, I've discovered that I apparently like deckbuilding games like these. What else is out there that's a) fun, b) inexpensive, and preferable has c) solo play options?
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Mar 13, 2015 16:54
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Night10194 posted:Are there any RPGs where people legitimately enjoy the combat mechanics as mechanics? Like, beyond the narrative it creates, actually have fun fighting because of the mechanics? I think 13th Age combat is pretty fun. It's certainly the one I've had the most fun running as DM because so much of the information is out in the open and players can actually make plans accordingly. And the Escalation Die means that there is always an end in sight since it'll run faster as people's attention/energy is starting to wane.
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Mar 13, 2015 16:58
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Exalted being crunchy isn't bad, it's that it's a crunchy system on top of Storyteller which was not really built to hold all that weight. In theory they could fix it but I have a feeling it would require making some really key changes to how the whole thing works.
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Mar 13, 2015 17:23
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Evil Mastermind posted:After picking up Star Realms and the Ascension "Apprentice" pack, I've discovered that I apparently like deckbuilding games like these. Dominion, except for "solo play"
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Mar 13, 2015 17:25
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