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Zereth posted:I feel like that would be all the stick you'd need: Solars should always be doing something. The rule wouldn't care what as long as you're actually doing something of significance rather than sitting around in a tea house for three months. The carrot is what tempts you into doing the dumb crazy poo poo. What's one life compared to the fate of all Creation? Or two lives? Or whoops suddenly you've used all the villages in a small region as unwilling test subjects in a a rather unethical experiment. Can't stop now or it'll have all been in vain! More importantly the Solar needs to not only be doing things but doing bigger, better, more interesting things. Always trying to find ways of improving whatever it is they care about, and not allowing themselves to become complacent with what they have or what they are. The 'compels' that I'm talking about aren't about shutting players out of doing cool things, they're about discouraging players from trying to do things the easy or safe way.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:18
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fool_of_sound posted:More importantly the Solar needs to not only be doing things but doing bigger, better, more interesting things. Always trying to find ways of improving whatever it is they care about, and not allowing themselves to become complacent with what they have or what they are. The 'compels' that I'm talking about aren't about shutting players out of doing cool things, they're about discouraging players from trying to do things the easy or safe way. Stretch that out over several thousand years of life and you get some really weird poo poo going on.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:23
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fool_of_sound posted:This is a clever idea, actually. Though I still think you need something to You can actually use Group XP as a peer pressure method. "Guys, if Kyle goes all in on his ridiculous plan here everyone will get 2XP" and then everyone will be like "COME ON KYLE DO IT GO CRAZY! GO FULL-ON ANATHEMA!" Most players will do anything if the GM and the whole party are encouraging them to do it. If the whole party is super conservative/reticent on this issue, I might have to rethink it, but usually a talk about how I don't generally run Exalted as a game where you die when we haven't agreed it's cinematically appropriate is enough to convince most of the players that I am going to make sure you have plenty of options for handling whatever you run into.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:27
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It's not really a good dynamic to punish either a player or the entire group with witheld XP if one player doesn't play right, though. Maybe start with giving Solars extra willpower and/or motes, for either pursuing Intimacies or responding to Limit triggers in over the top ways, and springboard from there.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:52
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Zereth posted:I meant to include that but forgot, yeah. Bigger, better, harder, faster, stronger. Without end. So solars are literally existential cancer.
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Mar 13, 2015 07:56
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Ronwayne posted:So solars are literally existential cancer. Only insofar as "the human species" is existential cancer. Less so, since there's only three hundred Solars and there will never be any more. The raksha would certainly agree with you either way, though!
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Mar 13, 2015 10:09
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In my experience you don't need to get players to abuse their power even with a carrot or a stick. I ran a mortals game for a group of people new to RPGs, with the alpha leaks that didn't have Great Curse mechanics. I just told them that a big theme of the game was the morality and risks of abuse that come with power. When the group of mortals started beating a man they strapped to a chair I had to firmly ask them to stop abusing their almost non-existent power.
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Mar 13, 2015 14:28
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Transient People posted:It creates this interesting dynamic where a general schools a lone warrior, who in turn schools a pet from hell, who in turn eats the general's armies for breakfast. This is from a few pages back, but I'll note that I got a chuckle out of the fact that this is directly and literally the Age of Mythology balancing system.
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Mar 13, 2015 14:51
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Bedlamdan posted:In my experience you don't need to get players to abuse their power even with a carrot or a stick. I ran a mortals game for a group of people new to RPGs, with the alpha leaks that didn't have Great Curse mechanics. I just told them that a big theme of the game was the morality and risks of abuse that come with power. I managed to get one of those psychic law enforcement hunter guys through an entire year and a half game without losing morality despite being attacked by cthuloid monstrosities and super Jason Freddy Krueger Jigsaw nonstop and also refusing to let the party do anything too grody (at least in my line of sight). By the end it was kinda like playing a less grimdark 40k Inquisitor. I think I ended up taking over a hundred+ boxes of damage, but the principle did not move. *(Additionally the number of successes required for a senior FBI manager to convince the airforce to shootdown a vampire overlord fleeing in his private jet is 14. Thanks NPC boss man and your improbably exploding die pool) Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 16:10
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Dammit Who? posted:Only insofar as "the human species" is existential cancer. Less so, since there's only three hundred Solars and there will never be any more. The raksha would certainly agree with you either way, though!
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Mar 13, 2015 17:52
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By the by, anyone who plays Exalted on mIRC might find "/exroll" here useful: http://www.filedropper.com/mainrollscripts I'm not sure if the characters mIRC uses to color text were preserved in that text file, but I'm pretty sure the actual program should work even if they weren't.
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Mar 13, 2015 20:18
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Ronwayne posted:I managed to get one of those psychic law enforcement hunter guys through an entire year and a half game without losing morality despite being attacked by cthuloid monstrosities and super Jason Freddy Krueger Jigsaw nonstop and also refusing to let the party do anything too grody (at least in my line of sight). By the end it was kinda like playing a less grimdark 40k Inquisitor. To be fair, most of the rest of the hunters were more or less decent (if often deeply crazy) people at heart, you brought at least 80 of those boxes of damage on yourself with your rampant abuse of psychic powers, and would have keeled over dead partway through the game if our Storyteller didn't have our superscience Contact whip up magical brain drugs that meant you could heal your subdural hemorrhages faster than you induced them. And the US Air Force "interdicting" (blowing up) the private jet liner of the North American member of the Tremere's Council of Seven over the Atlantic, killing the Tremere in the middle of his smack talk over the phone, may be one of my favorite plot highlights in any game I've ever played.
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Mar 13, 2015 21:44
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Zereth posted:I feel like that would be all the stick you'd need: Solars should always be doing something. The rule wouldn't care what as long as you're actually doing something of significance rather than sitting around in a tea house for three months. The carrot is what tempts you into doing the dumb crazy poo poo. What's one life compared to the fate of all Creation? Or two lives? Or whoops suddenly you've used all the villages in a small region as unwilling test subjects in a a rather unethical experiment. Can't stop now or it'll have all been in vain! This got realized pretty well in one of my games. A Twilight physician got into necromancy on the pretext that it would let him care for his patients on either side of the veil. This spiraled into that player enslaving a nemissary to animate a submersible made from cow parts, deliberately undermining the group's profitable working relationship with the Sidereals to keep prying eyes off his experiments, manipulating a tiny shadowland into existence in the basement of his hospital by letting all his terminal patients die there, the whole bad mojo thing. Made for some fun jaunts through the local underworld though, even one journey into the Labyrinth to recruit a new necromantic tutor. he brought a minor nephwrack back up to the living world with him and let it roam without bindings, so long as it didn't prey on anyone within the PC's town and taught him all its bad magic. All to provide the very best pan-dimensional healthcare he could. And to be fair, he was a hell of a doctor.
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Mar 13, 2015 22:45
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I don't think I've ever been in a game where the Greater Curse was actually needed. Unsurprisingly when you give players a massive amount of power they tend to go overboard with that freedom, even if they're usually quite sensible people.
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Mar 13, 2015 23:44
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Fans posted:I don't think I've ever been in a game where the Greater Curse was actually needed. Unsurprisingly when you give players a massive amount of power they tend to go overboard with that freedom, even if they're usually quite sensible people. yeah, and this goes for lots of other games.
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Mar 13, 2015 23:54
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Right now #AllUnderHeaven is talking about Sorcerous Initiations. I present to you: A serious Muscle Wizard initiation. Custom Initiation: Of Labor Reforged Through tremendous effort and concentration, physical practice and training becomes a moving meditation. One's chakra points are opened, ones meridians unlocked. By strengthening the body, one strengthens the breath. By strengthening the breath, one strengthens the essence. By mastery of essence, the gates of the world are opened. This initiation combines sheer physical might with intense willpower and chanted sutras, until every movement and every muscle unconsciously evokes sacred phrases, the sorcerer's entire body and mind remade into a single mystical engine. Shaping Rituals •By the spiritual one may master the physical. By the physical, one may master the spiritual. Once per day, the Sorcerer may attempt a feat of great physical strength, whether that be a rigorous internal kata or tremendous external exertion. Roll (STR or STA) + Occult and gain a sorcerous mote for each success, bankable until used to fuel a spell or until the ritual is redone on a later day. If the Sorcerer successfully lifts or destroys something as a Feat of Strength while furthering a Major or Defining intimacy, he may bank twice as many motes. •When the Sorcerer strikes a withering blow on a significant enemy or enemy unit, all damage done may be instead converted to sorcerous Motes that must be used by the end of the scene. •Inner Flame. The Sorcerer may take levels of bashing damage, converting them to 3 motes each, as a reflexive action. The Sorcerer may convert up to (Essence) health level this way per turn, and may inflict this damage onto any temporary health levels. New Merits: ***Body as Mind. The Sorcerer may roll Shape Sorcery actions with (STR or STA) as the base ability. ***Mental Might. The Sorcerer may add his WIT to his STR for the purposes of qualifying for Feats of Strength. This does not add dice to the actual roll.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:39
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Yeah, my experience running Exalted would definitely suggest that players don't need Limit Break rules to go mad with power. White Wolf doesn't seem to be able to give up on the concept of mechanics controlling PCs' behavior, though.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:44
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Jefepato posted:Yeah, my experience running Exalted would definitely suggest that players don't need Limit Break rules to go mad with power. My social charm causes you to gain a defining intimacy of "Dog loving".
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Mar 14, 2015 02:31
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team overhead smash posted:My social charm causes you to gain a defining intimacy of "Dog loving". Don't you need a
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Mar 14, 2015 03:13
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Personally I have seen way too many people declaring that the infamous Great Curse is the only thing standing between them and creating a new Golden Age with their faultless knowledge of right and wrong.
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Mar 14, 2015 03:15
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Rand Brittain posted:Personally I have seen way too many people declaring that the infamous Great Curse is the only thing standing between them and creating a new Golden Age with their faultless knowledge of right and wrong.
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Mar 14, 2015 03:16
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Nessus posted:Well, if they have Charms that let them define what's "right" and "wrong," they are arguably correct. And that seems like a pretty Lawgiver kinda thing to do. Nah, there's just a certain kind of person who likes to explain to you how they only like to play games that recognize a difference between right and wrong, and who do so in a way that makes it clear to you that they don't know the difference between right and wrong.
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Mar 14, 2015 03:20
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I like the Great Curse mechanics fine (and like the *idea* of the Great Curse a lot), though I wish its rules were written in a way that presumed a little more mutual respect at the table than "the ST puppeteers your character" implies. My plan for adjudicating Limit Breaks as an ST is basically going to default to "the player picks which kind of Limit, and then the ST flips the switch at the narratively optimal moment".
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Mar 14, 2015 03:27
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Yeah that's essentially the same issue I have. I think the Limit mechanics are pretty decent (having a framework to work your crazy around is not a bad thing), but having the choice of which Limit Break happens solely under the ST's control isn't good. I don't think it says anywhere that the ST puppeteers your character, though. Just that they choose which Limit Break it is, when it starts, and when it ends. I'm thinking of allowing the ST or any player to chime in at any time to suggest a premature Limit Break (below Limit 10). If the player in question and the ST agree that it's dramatically appropriate, then the break happens right there and then, clearing the Limit track and granting some Solar xp to the communal Solar xp pool.
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Mar 14, 2015 03:57
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LimitedReagent posted:Yeah that's essentially the same issue I have. I think the Limit mechanics are pretty decent (having a framework to work your crazy around is not a bad thing), but having the choice of which Limit Break happens solely under the ST's control isn't good. I don't think it says anywhere that the ST puppeteers your character, though. Just that they choose which Limit Break it is, when it starts, and when it ends. Yeah, that's accurate.
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Mar 14, 2015 03:59
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Mile'ionaha posted:You need Res5 to feed them. Or lots of enemies.
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Mar 14, 2015 06:21
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Exalted 2E was the second major system me and my players ever tried to tackle (the first being WFRP). My players more or less revolted at the idea of virtue testing, and were rarely ever happy about limit in general. That said, about three sessions in, one player had started making a habit of destroying bureaucratic records to get bureaucrats to do things for him, and the other (who'd been hired on as commander of a city guard) was threatening to kill the city council if they didn't get out of his way when he tried to bring order to the city. Great Curse is working fine.
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Mar 14, 2015 11:47
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Eh. Nah, that's just action movie Loose Cannon style protocol. It just turns into icky poo poo with the glowing nazi stuff Kitty Empress mentioned.
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Mar 14, 2015 11:53
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Ronwayne posted:Eh. Nah, that's just action movie Loose Cannon style protocol. It just turns into icky poo poo with the glowing nazi stuff Kitty Empress mentioned. Except I was specifically saying I dislike 'evil for evil's sake 'oops i blew up a town' Exalted. I like Exalted where trying to be helpful and do things to help people gets taken too far. Not Exalted where you genocide entire peoples on a sunday before brunch. Like, one of my specific examples was 'tiger warrior train children'. That's the style of hosed up I enjoy - putting children into intense magical training so that they're abled bodied before they've hit puberty, meaning the entire country runs smoother and everyone has skills and talents to excel in, at the cost of all of it being as the result of magical military training. That's literally my complaint about 2E, it went way too far into the 'glowing nazi' for first age solars, when the 'Helpful in a hosed up way' solar is way more interesting. I honestly don't think Dessus the wife beater who uses magic to make everyone think he's a big hero is an interesting character idea. I do think that the idea of characters who take poo poo too far by virtue of having the power to do so are. My people are starving, a plague has wiped out the crops and animals of it, and I have to save them - I know, I'll use a painful process to turn my entire country into a people who no longer need to eat, saving them. It's too bad about the side effect of 'look weird' that comes with it, but I have to save them, I have the power to! My people are stuck in a war that they have no hope of winning on their own, against a power much greater than their own - I know, I'll implant the army with magical gems I made that make them as strong as bears and as tough as rhinos, it's too bad it takes two thirds of their lifespan to implant it, but at least the innocent will survive! They know the risks! I think both 'I am a pure righteous person who never does anything wrong' (and actually doesn't, not just convinces themselves that they don't) and 'mwhahha i am an evil genocidal maniac' are kinda boring, with the latter tending to just be hosed up and boring/gross to play with. There's a difference between embracing the idea of my solar deciding to add wings (or make jetpacks) to/for their Dragonblooded commanders so they can lead an army of giant killer birds, and 'glowing nazi stuff' too. I think being 'excessive with your power' doesn't even have to stray into moral gray stuff. Why do I need a Manse that perfectly relaxes all occupants, that is always comfortable, has unlimited food, and demon servants to serve it, all trained to gourmet levels of food preparation? Because I'm an Exalt, and I can do this kind of thing, duh.
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Mar 14, 2015 12:43
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See, I don't see any difference between the two. We must secure the existence of the Deliberative and a future for Half-castes.
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Mar 14, 2015 13:14
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Attorney at Funk posted:I like the Great Curse mechanics fine (and like the *idea* of the Great Curse a lot), though I wish its rules were written in a way that presumed a little more mutual respect at the table than "the ST puppeteers your character" implies. My plan for adjudicating Limit Breaks as an ST is basically going to default to "the player picks which kind of Limit, and then the ST flips the switch at the narratively optimal moment". Pretty much how I'm handling it, yeah, and at least the book suggests consulting players for the best limit break.
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Mar 14, 2015 13:49
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Ronwayne posted:See, I don't see any difference between the two. We must secure the existence of the Deliberative and a future for Half-castes. You don't see the difference between helping people in a way that accidentally hurts the world and a national party and ideology that wanted to wipe out like four or five types of people, and put genocide and forced sterilization into effect? Or do you just forget that Nazi's were more than just 'bad people who did unethical science'? I want my Solars to be like intelligent Lenny's, they don't realize their own mistakes and how things go wrong, maybe not because they are dumb, but just because they are blinded by pride and power. Which is nothing like 'solar nazi'.
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Mar 14, 2015 19:41
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KittyEmpress posted:You don't see the difference between helping people in a way that accidentally hurts the world and a national party and ideology that wanted to wipe out like four or five types of people, and put genocide and forced sterilization into effect? No, not really. They're both about viewing other people as things and a means to an end. Even if I did separate them "Enthusiastic Morons" just makes them as sympathizeable as atom bombs with the personality of a hyperactive child.
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Mar 14, 2015 19:49
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Ronwayne posted:No, not really. They're both about viewing other people as things and a means to an end. Even if I did separate them "Enthusiastic Morons" just makes them as sympathizeable as atom bombs with the personality of a hyperactive child. Really makes you think.
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Mar 14, 2015 20:38
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If someone is more interested in the setting than the mechanics and is just looking for a decent overview of everything because they like the snippets they heard, but don't have details, where should this person be looking?
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Mar 14, 2015 20:50
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There's no single setting book like the Guide to Glorantha, but I could recommend good books for particular parts of the setting. Is there anything in particular you're interested in?
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Mar 14, 2015 21:00
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Covok posted:If someone is more interested in the setting than the mechanics and is just looking for a decent overview of everything because they like the snippets they heard, but don't have details, where should this person be looking? They should be looking for a lawyer. Piracy is a crime, friendo. e: for older books, I quite like Games of Divinity and Scavenger Sons.
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Mar 14, 2015 21:01
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Rand Brittain posted:There's no single setting book like the Guide to Glorantha, but I could recommend good books for particular parts of the setting. Is there anything in particular you're interested in? That is disappointing as I would love a "Guide to Creation" book. My interest in the setting would be as follows: Exaltations -- especially the Siderals, Dragonblood, Lunars, and Alchemicals--, the goverments of the world, the underworld -- my friend said he really loved Jenna Moran did with this --, the primodals, the gods, and general culture. I hope this isn't too long a list and thank you for being so helpful. Attorney at Funk posted:They should be looking for a lawyer. Piracy is a crime, friendo. I mean I never said I was going to steal anything. I was just looking for books that were, well to tie it back, like a "Guide to Creation." Thanks for the recommendations.
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Mar 14, 2015 21:03
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Games of Divinity covers some aspects of setting metaphysics fairly well, and the chapter on demons and hell is one of the all-time great pieces of RPG writing.
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Mar 14, 2015 21:05
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Attorney at Funk posted:Games of Divinity covers some aspects of setting metaphysics fairly well, and the chapter on demons and hell is one of the all-time great pieces of RPG writing. Since this might change per edition, you are referring to this one, right? If it doesn't change by edition, my mistake. I'm just used to rpgs reprinting their books every edition or so.
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Mar 14, 2015 21:08
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