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Ddraig posted:Unfortunately it seems like most people are opting to forego the puzzle and just stand around corners firing blindly until they come to you.
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Mar 13, 2015 17:42
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Ddraig posted:HM2 is baller and if you don't like it you're a big baby who should seriously get good or go home. This is the big elephant in the room (thread?). People mistake being bad at the game with the game being bad, and can be quite vocal about it. So you get this backlash of "git gud scrub" and it makes for an amusing thread. It's refreshing to see people that understand the game review it, but people will just parrot the PCGamer review because it was first.
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Mar 13, 2015 17:42
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Plan Z posted:Wow, way to not read any of the loving posts. I read the posts, it pretty much amounted to  The game is harder Well, no poo poo. Just about the only points I agree on is that there are a stupid amount of bugs that were present in HM1's initial release which is kind of disheartening, but the game is basically an evolution from HM1 in every way. When the level editor comes out and the bugs are fixed it will be excellent. Just about the only thing the complaints apply to really is Hard Mode which is designed to be a giant 'gently caress you' and only really for insane completionists.
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Mar 13, 2015 17:44
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Ddraig posted:I read the posts, it pretty much amounted to Hi I beat it on hard mode. The normal gameplay is worse and while there are great moments, it's still a worse experience due to many of the reasons people have mentioned before (Guns are much more required, lots of baiting, plays more like a puzzle game, etc.)
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Mar 13, 2015 17:48
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Yeah I beat it on hard and am currently going for all the A+ ranks on normal and I really don't see how anyone can argue that the level design hasn't taken a huge hit compared to the first game
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Mar 13, 2015 17:49
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I personally liked how this game was more like Rainbow Six in 2D than Bushido Blade  But yeah it should have been more of a viable strategy in the first place and the sight radius for anyone not holding a melee weapon is bullshit.
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Mar 13, 2015 17:50
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For what it's worth I loved Hot & Heavy from the original. 99% of Hotline Miami was you just tearing people up because you encountered no resistance, then you come to a level where you're at a serious disadvantage and you actually come up against decent resistance. Most of Hotline Miami 2 is you going up against situations where you're hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned but you pull through because you're better at killing than everyone else.
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Mar 13, 2015 17:54
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I don't mind the prevalence of guns as much as I thought I would, but I do wish that executions had not been normalized in the time it takes to do them, and I wish they performing an execution would preserve your combo window so that you don't lose a nice combo because you wanted to do an execution. As it stands now I start to look forward to guys getting knocked up against the wall because that execution is definitely faster, even though it makes me drop my weapon for mystery reasons.
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Mar 13, 2015 17:58
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Ddraig posted:I read the posts, it pretty much amounted to Nobody said that. We said it plays worse, the fun suffers for it, and it can be improved. It's called discussion. It literally came up every time someone said "get good." We had everyone talking about the ending within hours of the game's release, so nobody is paralyzed by the "difficulty." We are adults, so we discuss what a game does well and poorly, how it can improve, and if it's worth the purchase. Plan Z fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 18:00
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Firstborn posted:So wait, people don't like this game? I'm on the fence about picking it up tomorrow. It's really not that hard and goons are overreacting like always. There are some difficult parts but it's all doable (at least on Normal mode). The longest I was stuck on a level was 45 minutes, maybe. If you liked HM1 and want more of the same, get this. If you didn't play HM1, get HM1 instead.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:01
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Plan Z posted:Nobody said that. We said it plays worse, the fun suffers for it, and it can be improved. It's called discussion. It literally came up every time someone said "get good." We had everyone talking about the ending within hours of the game's release, so nobody is paralyzed by the "difficulty." We are adults, so we discuss what a game does well and poorly, and how it can improve. I Yeah, I cleared it with minimal trouble compared to a lot of people (I didn't get the Karma trophy til Richter's last stage). The reason it's bad is that even when you're doing well, there's no pleasure in it, because you're repeating the same motions you've already repeated the last dozen times with the fervent hope that this time you won't be a pixel too close or too far away or that you won't grab a weapon five paces from your current position instead of the one you're currently standing on. It's badly designed and badly programmed. It's also difficult. The former is more important than the latter.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:04
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Not sure if this a bug or an intended feature (probably a bug) but during the last level of Withdrawal, I killed every single other mobster apart from one and as I fired my gun he fired his and we both went down. Nobody came to execute me, presumably because everyone was dead, so I was just lying there bleeding out until I restarted the level Probably a bug, but it would be neat if that was intended and you're just stuck in limbo.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:04
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Ddraig posted:Not sure if this a bug or an intended feature (probably a bug) but during the last level of Withdrawal, I killed every single other mobster apart from one and as I fired my gun he fired his and we both went down. It's a bug you doofus.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:05
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Jehde posted:If you're on the fence then the game probably isn't for you. It's a fantastic sequel but it's significantly more difficult, which turns a lot of people off. Goons hating the game but feeling the need to finish it is fascinating. If the game is so bad, maybe stop playing it? I was having this argument with my mate, funnily enough. Years ago, when you were a kid (I mean me and my mate now.) you'd get like, 1 game a year if you were lucky. If it was a hard game like Battletoads or something then that's all you'd have to play. It'd drive you bonkers, but what else is there to do? These days as a middle aged man I have the luxury of just not playing a game that I don't like. I can do other, adult thing, like get drunk in a park with a bottle of cider... That being said I absolutely HAD to finish this game, even though I hated it and my old man hands couldn't do things fast enough. Probably because it was one of my most hotly anticipated games of all time and I wanted to see the story through to the end and it was just horrible and frustrating.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:15
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Beating the game doesn't necessarily mean you are good at that game. Complaining about too much baiting, too much guns, too much glass, or too much offscreen enemies is a pretty strong indication that you are bad at the game however. Any other complaint is pretty valid, but it's funny seeing people say these same complaints and can't fathom that they might be playing the game wrong.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:16
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https://youtu.be/-KUrzRAA0Lo?list=PLURBlBqSzVmH8ZxBwnIiQgTDi7hbcA89k drat I loved this one.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:17
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Oxxidation posted:It's a bug you doofus. The reason I suspect it might be a feature is in the actual segment one of the mobsters drags you off If there's nobody there to do it, because they're all dead, then being stuck in limbo would make sense. It is probably a bug but it's a cool detail nonetheless, even if it's not planned.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:19
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Jehde posted:Beating the game doesn't necessarily mean you are good at that game. Complaining about too much baiting, too much guns, too much glass, or too much offscreen enemies is a pretty strong indication that you are bad at the game however. Any other complaint is pretty valid, but it's funny seeing people say these same complaints and can't fathom that they might be playing the game wrong. At this point I would genuinely like to see a clip of you playing through one of these stages, because I flat-out refuse to believe you're playing it any differently from the rest of us.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:19
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I didn't say I was any good at the game. I constantly used baiting and guns as cop outs because I'm getting too old to be good at video games. I'm not delusional enough to think me being bad at the game means the game is bad though.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:22
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I'm genuinely looking forward to any "HM2 COMBO MAD" videos that come out and speedruns, because I bet there's actually really cool ways to get through these levels if you're good/creative enough. I'm not, but I bet they exist.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:25
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Jehde posted:I didn't say I was any good at the game. I constantly used baiting and guns as cop outs because I'm getting too old to be good at video games. I'm not delusional enough to think me being bad at the game means the game is bad though. There is literally no other way to beat the stages without constant AI exploits (baiting, corner-ganking) while never moving more than a single step in the wrong direction because of all the glass. That's why people are complaining about those elements, because they restrict gameplay for a series that had, previously, used frenetic freeform mayhem as its strongest selling point. It is not because they are bad at video games. It is because this particular video game is designed badly. This is not a difficult distinction to make. The lack of understanding is entirely on you.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:25
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No one has ever been good at a game EXCEPT FOR ME BITCHES HAHAHAHA
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Mar 13, 2015 18:26
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It's virtually the same as any other mildly difficult game that comes out. People make proclamations on how it's impossible, and that the game is terrible because of that, then people figure out the trial part of trial and error and realize it's probably not that difficult and you just need to stop being a huge babby. In Dark Souls it was the Taurus Demon, then it was the gargoyles, then the dragon, then the capra demon, then blight town, then the butterfly and god drat that was a terrible game virtually everything about it was badly designed, I don't know how anyone could ever have fun.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:26
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If you want to see someone really good go check out Duke Bilgewater's stream on twitch and even he uses bait tactics like crazy in this one. He also shoots enemies off-screen a lot which completely trivializes some levels.Ddraig posted:In Dark Souls it was the Taurus Demon, then it was the gargoyles, then the dragon, then the capra demon, then blight town, then the butterfly and god drat that was a terrible game virtually everything about it was badly designed, I don't know how anyone could ever have fun. You also forget that people still spoke highly of the game even if they hate those sections. I HATED those two fat and skinny bosses and I still love DS 1+2. HLM2 ain't getting praised much outside of the soundtrack that's for sure. Red Mundus fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 18:28
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I died 35 times on the level after pig man gets taken into custody. I counted them. I think this is level 3 out of 20 something and I love this game.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:30
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Ddraig posted:It's virtually the same as any other mildly difficult game that comes out. Hotline Miami 2 isn't even in the same zip code as the Souls series when it comes to the type of difficulty or quality of design, come on dude. It's fine to like the thing. But it's deeply, thoroughly flawed. Being so obtuse is just making you look like the rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:30
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Oxxidation posted:There is literally no other way to beat the stages Actually there is, you're just bad at video game. It's pretty easy to see the high point combo lines through most levels, actually being able to execute them is another story though. It's also possible to see alternate, slower lines through levels that are easier to do. I was able to pull off some pretty rad combos that ensured me HLM is still HLM. Lots of goons seemed to have issues with the level where you're bum rushed at the bar, but that was one of my favourite sequences. Also HLM2 being more constrained and puzzly compared to HLM1's frantic improvisation is a very valid complaint. However many goons feel the opposite and feel that this is a strengh of HLM2. Jehde fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 18:31
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I need to hurry up and beat this game so I can read all the spoilers. The highrise mission with the Fans is kicking my rear end! This thread got legs, Lt. Dan!
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Mar 13, 2015 18:32
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Jehde posted:Actually there is, you're just bad at video game. Show me, then. Upload something. I'd love pointers!
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Mar 13, 2015 18:32
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Oxxidation posted:Hotline Miami 2 isn't even in the same zip code as the Souls series when it comes to the type of difficulty or quality of design Yeah, Hotline Miami 2 is a good game.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:33
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Oxxidation posted:Show me, then. Upload something. I'd love pointers! There actually are videos of people trying out preliminary speedruns posted and do exactly what you say you need to do. Baiting and treating it like a cover shooter. http://www.twitch.tv/duke_bilgewater/profile/past_broadcasts
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Mar 13, 2015 18:34
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HLM 2 wasnt much of change for me since i did complete most of the levels in HLM 1 with just baiting enemies to a doorway, that said some of the hlm1 levels are ridiculously easy and i much prefer the difficulty of the sequel. Also, for me biker level in HLM1 was much more frustrating to me than any level in HLM2, i guess guns are my thing and not melee? Delerion fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 18:35
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Red Mundus posted:If you want to see someone really good go check out Duke Bilgewater's stream on twitch and even he uses bait tactics like crazy in this one. He also shoots enemies off-screen a lot which completely trivializes some levels. Note that first and casual playthroughs are way different than optimized runs. I did some really simple routing, and a lot of the speed comes down to streamlined or shooting off screen.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:35
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Studio posted:Note that first and casual playthroughs are way different than optimized runs. I did some really simple routing, and a lot of the speed comes down to streamlined or shooting off screen. Yeah but even when he did a first playthrough and streamed it he was using bait tactics and only after he kept dying and chat told him to start doing so.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:36
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Oxxidation posted:Show me, then. Upload something. I'd love pointers! You want me to make football play drawings of how to do floors or something? Sorry, I don't really care about someone being bad at a video game that much. Oxxidation posted:Being so obtuse is just making you look like the rear end in a top hat. 
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Mar 13, 2015 18:37
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Jehde posted:Sorry, I don't really care about someone being bad at a video game that much. Fooled me!
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Mar 13, 2015 18:39
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Oxxidation posted:Hotline Miami 2 isn't even in the same zip code as the Souls series when it comes to the type of difficulty or quality of design, come on dude. It's fine to like the thing. But it's deeply, thoroughly flawed. Being so obtuse is just making you look like the rear end in a top hat. Actually when it comes to design Hotline Miami 2 is more tightly designed than Dark Souls in any iteration. In Dark Souls you really have to do trial and error with everything because literally every single enemy/boss is entirely different and you have to figure out exactly what moves they have and when they do them. Hotline Miami 2 has about, what... 6 different types of enemies? Regular dudes/dudes with guns, fat dudes/dudes with guns, dogs, those ninja types that can dodge gun fire. There's also those crazy dudes in the prison, but you don't encounter them except for that one level. Absolutely every single thing you need to know to beat the game you've learned in the first few levels. You already know what enemies there are, what they do, what they're capable of, how to take them down, and the entirety of the game mechanics from windows/doors to other things. You know this because the game forces you to encounter them and engage with them right from the get go. This isn't I Wanna Be The Guy levels of 'There's no possible way I could ever have seen that coming' because the game actively decides to gently caress you over.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:39
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Why in the gently caress are you stupid faggots calling this a puzzle game.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:39
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Jehde posted:Actually there is, you're just bad at video game. It's pretty easy to see the high point combo lines through most levels, actually being able to execute them is another story though. It's also possible to see alternate, slower lines through levels that are easier to do. I was able to pull off some pretty rad combos that ensured me HLM is still HLM. Lots of goons seemed to have issues with the level where you're bum rushed at the bar, but that was one of my favourite sequences. You have to admit it's pretty funny that when you were asked to record it or tell us what you were doing instead you answered you were also total poo poo and did the same thing the rest of us did and were just guessing the good players did it differently. The bar part is the first level with Richter right? That's one of the good ones. Punch out all nine of the guys, go back for a pipe, swing at the shotgunner getting back up, smack the rest down, execute someone if you want. Then chuck another pipe at the one gunner and unload it in the rest. All of Richter's stuff is great except that first part of 2 because it depends on the pick-up priority not completely loving you over on top of the gunner just not blowing you away immediately. I wish the whole game was designed more like Richter's stuff. Also I'm glad they removed the throwing weapon types because those mostly sucked. quote:Yeah, Hotline Miami 2 is a good game.  quote:This isn't I Wanna Be The Guy levels of 'There's no possible way I could ever have seen that coming' because the game actively decides to gently caress you over. Getting shot by someone twice your view distance away comes pretty close to that. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 18:41
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ArfJason posted:Why in the gently caress are you stupid faggots calling this a puzzle game. Because it is one.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:44
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