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That's fair, what with DA2 being a bad game and DAI being a pretty good one.
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Mar 12, 2015 08:26
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I actually think DA:I is the most successful RPG when it comes to the amount of content available vs the amount of content you NEED to do. Some people complain about it which is crazy to me, but I love the fact that you can have a run where you beat the game in under 10 hours if you want, or you can spend 80+ hours doing EVERYTHING the game has to offer. I've been meaning to do a "speedrun" of the game to really see how fast you can beat the game if you do the bare minimum of what is required of you to beat it, cause it sounds fun.
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Mar 12, 2015 08:41
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cams posted:I actually think DA:I is the most successful RPG when it comes to the amount of content available vs the amount of content you NEED to do. Some people complain about it which is crazy to me, but I love the fact that you can have a run where you beat the game in under 10 hours if you want, or you can spend 80+ hours doing EVERYTHING the game has to offer. Would that include recruiting all the characters, or just rolling with Cassandra/Varric/Solas till endgame? I guess you also get Cole and Dorian to play with.
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Mar 12, 2015 08:50
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I think that what people complain about is the quality of some of the optional content. A lot of it is very shallow. I'm not of a mind that more automatically means better, it has to be quality content that feels worth doing. Like field requisitions and the war table, they're things you can do but there's really nothing to them and the rewards are often meaningless. A lot of the side quests feel hollow as well. DAI traded depth for width, I think.
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Mar 12, 2015 09:14
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ApplesandOranges posted:Would that include recruiting all the characters, or just rolling with Cassandra/Varric/Solas till endgame? I guess you also get Cole and Dorian to play with. However, anything below Nightmare is some bitch rear end poo poo. If you play on anything below nightmare you shouldn't even be allowed to vote. If I had to play on Nightmare... just play as a Knight Enchanter and solo through the game. Really, any questions about who to recruit or what party to play with become trivial if you play Knight Enchanter... possibly. The problem with Knight Enchanter, if you're playing on Nightmare, is that while it is invulnerable, it does not have the highest dps. Once the next patch comes out, Iron Bull and Cole become the highest DPS characters due to the nerf(fix) to Thousand Cuts. So, given this information, if I wanted to clear the game as quickly and safely as possible, I'd probably recruit Bull, Cole, and Blackwall. Iron Bull and Cole because I think Reaver and Assassin have straight up the most DPS in the game, and Blackwall because with three other melee classes (including the KE) a Champion has tons of value thanks to Bodyguard and it's upgrade. Cole has the burst damage, but that is completely dependent on the cooldowns, while Reaver has INSANE sustained damage but the health costs call into question sustainability. But really, all of the combat required by the story is pretty loving easy so it will be all about finding the most efficient way of going about things. This is all part of what I find so interesting about it. I legitimately believe you can beat the game in under 5 hours (maybe even closer to 3 but all times are gonna be hosed up on my scale just cause my PC is poo poo and loading zones takes FOREVER) if you figure out the best way to do it. I actually started thinking about all this in my first or second playthrough (I dumped about 200-250 hours into this game in the first 3 weeks I played it). The main reason I started thinking about this is because I used to stream Marvel Heroes quite a bit and I loved streaming and I've been looking for more short-term ways (cause I am now back in school full-time) to get back into it that will be entertaining for viewers. As of right now I want to wait for the next patch to come out before I really dive back into the game, but now that I think about it, I could set up a stream and start doing runs asap if people would get into it.
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Mar 12, 2015 09:15
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Manatee Cannon posted:I think that what people complain about is the quality of some of the optional content. A lot of it is very shallow. I'm not of a mind that more automatically means better, it has to be quality content that feels worth doing. Like field requisitions and the war table, they're things you can do but there's really nothing to them and the rewards are often meaningless. A lot of the side quests feel hollow as well. DAI traded depth for width, I think. I am going to immediately regret making this post. I feel the urge to defend DA:I because I legitimately think it is the greatest RPG ever made. There are RPGs with stories and characters I enjoy more, but I think Dragon Age Inquisition is overall the best RPG ever made.
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Mar 12, 2015 09:24
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Two things. First, don't bring it up if you're not comfortable arguing for your point. Second, the idea that games are different now so it's ok to have less depth is just absurd. You've already been arguing with people on the internet, it's too late to make that claim now. It's a good game, and it does have a lot of good parts, but you can't just write off everything that isn't good "because it's optional". That doesn't stop it from being in the game, nor does it change the quality for the better. Your argument here is that it's alright because you like the game a lot, and that's a pretty flawed argument.
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Mar 12, 2015 10:13
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I never thought I'd say this but I totally wish this game had level scaling. Or at the very least, challenges for Level 20+ parties; I have zero incentive to ever go back and explore the lower level zones steamrolling everything in my path is not actually fun. Hell, even the Hissing Wastes is a cakewalk after a certain level.
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Mar 12, 2015 11:19
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Manatee Cannon posted:Two things. First, don't bring it up if you're not comfortable arguing for your point. Second, the idea that games are different now so it's ok to have less depth is just absurd. You've already been arguing with people on the internet, it's too late to make that claim now. It's a good game, and it does have a lot of good parts, but you can't just write off everything that isn't good "because it's optional". That doesn't stop it from being in the game, nor does it change the quality for the better. Your argument here is that it's alright because you like the game a lot, and that's a pretty flawed argument. Wolfsheim posted:I never thought I'd say this but I totally wish this game had level scaling. Or at the very least, challenges for Level 20+ parties; I have zero incentive to ever go back and explore the lower level zones steamrolling everything in my path is not actually fun. Hell, even the Hissing Wastes is a cakewalk after a certain level. Like, it won't pose that "I JUST CANNOT BEAT THIS" sort of difficulty, but it really shouldn't at that point. I've found that with the difficulty at maximum, it will still at least require me to pay attention to what is going on. I've found that when I'm playing on nightmare, even if I have overleveled the content, it isn't just a pure steamroll. cams fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Mar 12, 2015 |
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Mar 12, 2015 11:26
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Wolfsheim posted:I never thought I'd say this but I totally wish this game had level scaling. Or at the very least, challenges for Level 20+ parties; I have zero incentive to ever go back and explore the lower level zones steamrolling everything in my path is not actually fun. Hell, even the Hissing Wastes is a cakewalk after a certain level. I'm holding out for some DLC that would require strong parties.
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Mar 12, 2015 12:26
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cams posted:I'd argue that the amount of "quality" depth in DA:I still rivals almost any RPG in the past 10 years. I set the limit there because (please don't argue this part because it is 100% my personal opinion and I don't give a gently caress about arguing with people on the internet) classic RPGs were amazing storytelling vehicles but were BORING AS gently caress. Seriously, DA:I has a huge amount of fleshed out, well-told content. Yes, it also has tons of character-less fetch quests, but all of it is completely optional. I think modern RPGs get tons of poo poo compared to the "classics" because back before high-end graphics, voice acting, and fast-paced exciting gameplay, people WANTED interactive novels. Which is fine, I loved those games, and sometimes I still go back and play them, but we're on a different playing field now. Why does the "optional" value of the fetchquests automatically make them good? That just means the developers could have cut them and no one would miss them since they don't have much to do with characters or story.
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Mar 12, 2015 13:34
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HIJK posted:Why does the "optional" value of the fetchquests automatically make them good? That just means the developers could have cut them and no one would miss them since they don't have much to do with characters or story. Usually when the "but they are optional" rationale is invoked, it doesn't mean that it improves something that is bad, but it is a redeeming feature. Since you are not forced to complete the bad content, you can play the game in such a way that it doesn't detract from the experience by its mere existence (once you realise it is bad and optional ofc). There is also a difference between poorly made but optional content and cut content. You may feel they could have been cut without impacting the characters or story, but to some even a few lines of comment from a companion is part of building their experience. F.inst. fetching winter blankets for the refugees in the Hinterlands: Most times when you plant a flag at a cache, one of your companions will make a remark "This should please Captain wazisface. Good" or some such. Finding out how your companions feel about helping random refugees this way is part of getting to know them. And it says something about the companion precisely because it is a small side-task; That they are willing to put the big stuff on hold for a bit to help people. You wouldn't get that same impression by helping, say a bunch of refugees flee from Adamant, because that is Big Important Plot Stuff. Shallow side-content where you don't have to pay very much attention also does have its uses. Testing new party compositions and builds, passing time while waiting for banter to trigger (since main missions tend to have their own scripted sequences) and the not-to-be-underestimated satisfaction of clearing out icons on the map among them. Heck, that last point is basically the sole reason why many people play the Assassins Creed games.
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Mar 12, 2015 14:26
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Of what I've seen, a lot of fetch quests are also supposed to expose you to new areas that may have something interesting near/around them that you wouldn't get to because of the main story line.
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Mar 12, 2015 16:26
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Loving Life Partner posted:So I beat Origins ages ago and just did a replay, and finally mustered the resolve to slog through DA2 so I can play DA:I.
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Mar 12, 2015 17:06
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I also found it a lot less clunky after swapping some buttons around. Not keen on the defaults. I made space the pause button and Ctrl the jump and it worked well.
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Mar 12, 2015 17:45
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I'm doing Varric's companion quest and have I hit a weird glitch or did they forget to give Bianca a running animation. She sort of toddles around looking like she's walking doubletime.
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Mar 12, 2015 21:08
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Ok, guys. I'm getting this later today. What should I know before I start? As in, which class would you guys recommend (I'm leaning towards rogue or mage). I played DA:O in 360 and had a blast with a mage, but heard they aren't that good this time around. Never played DA:2 due to horrible reviews and universal disdain by goons. Also, are humans still the masterrace? Please can the standard "play what you like" answer, as that is counter-intuitive, since I will be playing all classes eventually through various run throughs. However, in my mind the first virgin run is the canon one. So I'd like to make it memorable.  TIA
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Mar 13, 2015 17:53
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If you want to be literally invincible, go mage, spec knight enchanter. race...depends...which NPC do you want to have awkward cut scene sex with?
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Mar 13, 2015 17:55
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Paranoid Peanut posted:Ok, guys. I'm getting this later today. What should I know before I start? As in, which class would you guys recommend (I'm leaning towards rogue or mage). I played DA:O in 360 and had a blast with a mage, but heard they aren't that good this time around. I had fun playing as a rogue until I played as a mage. Now it's kind of hard to play anything else. Like the last guy said, the Knight Enchanter specialization is unstoppable. Humans are essentially still the master race, but there's a lot of elven history in this game so playing as an elf is pretty cool too. Everyone will tell you to get the gently caress out of the Hinterlands as soon as possible. They're not wrong, but don't feel rushed either. If you're having fun running around and exploring and doing the various sidequests there (and there are a ton of them) then by all means go ahead and keep doing that. Just know that they're not going anywhere and the next main quest is what really opens the game up and makes the rest of your companions available.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:39
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Am I alone in thinking that time has been kind to DA2? The game is still a slog of cut and paste locales, but I got really into the first chapter, until after completing it I got dumped right back into Kirkwall, and Act 3 is really *really* strong by any standard. It's mostly 1/4th of Act1 and all of Act2 that are boring as poo poo. The combat, vocal performances, characters, are all really strong. I just didn't hate it as much as I remember hating it the first time I attempted to play it.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:41
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girl. last girl.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:41
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Loving Life Partner posted:Am I alone in thinking that time has been kind to DA2? DA2 had it's problems, but I had a ton of fun playing it.
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Mar 13, 2015 18:47
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Paranoid Peanut posted:Ok, guys. I'm getting this later today. What should I know before I start? As in, which class would you guys recommend (I'm leaning towards rogue or mage). I played DA:O in 360 and had a blast with a mage, but heard they aren't that good this time around. Play female elf mage, romance Solas.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:20
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Munchkin'd Knight-Enchanter is pretty boring though, Rift feels much more like proper mage. Of course the former is basically giant gently caress you to dragons who put up shields, because you got a magic sword and regenerating barriers.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:21
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GuyUpNorth posted:Munchkin'd Knight-Enchanter is pretty boring though, Rift feels much more like proper mage. Of course the former is basically giant gently caress you to dragons who put up shields, because you got a magic sword and regenerating barriers. I've realized I play Knight Enchanter the same way I play a Vanguard in ME. Fade Step into nearest enemy, explode in a ball of fire, hit them in the face until they die.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:25
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The only thing about rogues compared to mages is that archer rogues can move and shoot at the same time while mages are still stuck in one place. I tried switching to mage and it drove me crazy not being able to move out of the line of fire while still shooting.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:25
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Really, the biggest strategy in the game imo that comes to class/party selection is realizing that you can only play one character at a time, so if you're going to be playing one character primarily, you may want the rest of your party to be fine on their own. For instance, if you don't like Blackwall, it's not a terrible idea to make your main character a Warrior/Champion and you can just play as whatever other character you want, cause Champions don't really gain a LOT from being piloted by a human, save maybe for their taunt that extremely increase damage taken/given. Knight Enchanter is godlike, obviously, but it also is played pretty well by the AI. I think the classes that really NEED to be piloted by a human to be used effectively are Reaver and Assassin, with Necromancer and Rift Mage being fine with AI but really shining when a player takes over.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:40
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Paranoid Peanut posted:Never played DA:2 due to horrible reviews and universal disdain by goons. Goons are dumb and DA2 is a treasure.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:43
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Loving Life Partner posted:Am I alone in thinking that time has been kind to DA2? Man, really? Act 3 is where it all falls apart. The first couple of acts really do feel like kind of a slow-burn culminating in one big event (the Deep Roads expedition and the Qunari takeover, respectively) and overall are actually pretty alright but the end is a mess. You have two characters who you've met once before and have no investment in, a dearth of actual new quests, a borderline nonsensical setup for the climax (the Templars have decided to purge all mages, so instead of just cutting them down where they stand they tell them to go home and prepare all their guys for a big epic battle) and in the end no matter who you choose you are betrayed and you fight them both. I think I liked DA2 more than most here (I really liked pretty much all the friendship/rivalry stuff that was ripped straight from Alpha Protocol) but the end was a rushed mess and the reason so many people felt burned.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:48
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For me, dual-wield rogue with the Tempest spec has been the most fun. Zip around the battlefield in bullet time, shivving the poo poo out of everything.   
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Mar 13, 2015 19:50
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Wyld Karde posted:For me, dual-wield rogue with the Tempest spec has been the most fun. Zip around the battlefield in bullet time, shivving the poo poo out of everything. Important reminder so players are not mislead, Tempests are absolutely better with daggers, Assassins absolutely better with bows. Do not let Cole and Sera mislead you.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:51
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Shroomie posted:DA2 had it's problems, but I had a ton of fun playing it. Played it for the first time recently and had an absolute blast all the way through. Got pretty bored of Sundermount by the end though and all the other maps cams posted:Good job. I respecced them both as the thread has suggested and Sera is very obviously a killer but Cole seems to lag behind. What should I be putting points into along with archery?
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Mar 13, 2015 20:10
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eating only apples posted:Played it for the first time recently and had an absolute blast all the way through. Got pretty bored of Sundermount by the end though and all the other maps The bow skills all have their specific uses, but the biggest damage is gonna come from the passives and actives from the Assassin tree. Hidden Blades and Mark Target are the #2 and #1 most damaging (non-focus) skills in the game, respectively. cams fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 20:15
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Wyld Karde posted:For me, dual-wield rogue with the Tempest spec has been the most fun. Zip around the battlefield in bullet time, shivving the poo poo out of everything. It's gonna be hard to play other classes after Tempest, as zipping around the battlefield with my grappling hook and chaining absurd combos while either freezing everything you touch or just darting between them in slow-motion is way funner than it should be. It sucks that you can no longer chain Thousand Cuts with the fire flask, but popping it and uppercutting a guy with four consecutive Shadow Strikes is still a pretty good time. I've heard the only other class that has that kind of momentum is Reaver, though Iron Bull seems to not be great at using it (although the same could be said for Sera). Definitely considering it on my eventual second playthrough.
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Mar 13, 2015 21:56
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Wolfsheim posted:I've heard the only other class that has that kind of momentum is Reaver, though Iron Bull seems to not be great at using it (although the same could be said for Sera). Definitely considering it on my eventual second playthrough.
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Mar 13, 2015 22:04
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Wolfsheim posted:Man, really? Act 3 is where it all falls apart. The first couple of acts really do feel like kind of a slow-burn culminating in one big event (the Deep Roads expedition and the Qunari takeover, respectively) and overall are actually pretty alright but the end is a mess. You have two characters who you've met once before and have no investment in, a dearth of actual new quests, a borderline nonsensical setup for the climax (the Templars have decided to purge all mages, so instead of just cutting them down where they stand they tell them to go home and prepare all their guys for a big epic battle) and in the end no matter who you choose you are betrayed and you fight them both. DA:I makes DA2 shine more in the departments where Inquisition failed (actual character questlines, the friendship/rivalry system, better AI). If they combined the best parts of both I'd be much more satisfied about the whole experience. I don't think I could ever play Origins again though (at least, not without mods).
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Mar 13, 2015 22:14
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Wyld Karde posted:For me, dual-wield rogue with the Tempest spec has been the most fun. Zip around the battlefield in bullet time, shivving the poo poo out of everything. My first inquisitor was a Bow Artificer. Picked up the passives that make crits reduce cooldowns and return stamina, the dagger talent which massively increases crit chance when flanking, the hookshot and leaping shot, and just shat all over the game. Popping the Artificer focus ability, and then killing the toughest dragon in three backflips was hilarious.
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Mar 13, 2015 23:49
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Wolfsheim posted:Man, really? Act 3 is where it all falls apart. The first couple of acts really do feel like kind of a slow-burn culminating in one big event (the Deep Roads expedition and the Qunari takeover, respectively) and overall are actually pretty alright but the end is a mess. You have two characters who you've met once before and have no investment in, a dearth of actual new quests, a borderline nonsensical setup for the climax (the Templars have decided to purge all mages, so instead of just cutting them down where they stand they tell them to go home and prepare all their guys for a big epic battle) and in the end no matter who you choose you are betrayed and you fight them both. I guess with Act 3 I thought "FINALLY poo poo IS HAPPENING!" Maybe if the game were 5 acts instead of 3, paced better, and varied poo poo happened in the first 4, the "slow burn" could have worked, but by the end of Act 2 I was just so sick to loving death of Kirkwall and everyone in it, I was hoping Act 3 would just be a crude drawing of Kirkwall with a meteor hitting it and an arrow pointing to "THE HANGED MAN" Fake edit: And I guess that's kinda what it was
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Mar 14, 2015 01:36
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Loving Life Partner posted:I guess with Act 3 I thought "FINALLY poo poo IS HAPPENING!" Yeah stop complaining that's pretty much Act 3 right there.
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Mar 14, 2015 02:50
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Loving Life Partner posted:Am I alone in thinking that time has been kind to DA2? I played it for the first time fairly recently (like a year or two ago now) and it's definitely one of the worst RPGs I've played. People get very hyperbolic about its issues, but that isn't to say that they aren't there. Kirkwall itself was one of the least interesting or fun to explore areas I've ever seen, even discounting the fact that there was literally one dungeon per area type. It's dull, ugly, poorly written, filled with a lot of unlikable characters, and more specifically Merril and Anders are in it. Even the combat was dumb because you couldn't just leave until everything was dead, and of course it was entirely possible to set off enemies on the other end of the map at some points. Plus they sent wave after wave of tedious enemies after you. Varric was ok, though. I liked Varric. edit: my favorite part of the whole game was the end boss because it would stun everyone to monologue, but Aveline was immune to stun so she'd just be wailing away at the boss as it talked your ear off. Manatee Cannon fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 03:40
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