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So. New decks that might be able to hold a candle to the current Abzan, G/w Devotion, R/w Aggro, U/B Control line-up coming out of DTK. R/B Slash + Dash. R or (R/u)-Dragons. Mono-U or U/w Devotion. B/U/x Reanimation + Exploitation. Temur Control. I really don't see much else. Mono-U might be the one surprise with all of the decent low drop creatures DTK is giving it (e.g., Sidisi's Faithful, Silumgar Sorcerer, and of course Shorecrash Elemental + Stratus Dancer). It could be doable with an all creature build + Cloudform using your Exploiters and Morphers as your spells. Maybe add in a couple Reality Shifts for utility. The question is whether you can generate enough value quickly enough with Thassa/MoW to off-set all the other deck's trumps (e.g., the Rhino). A couldformed Shorecrash is 5 devotion right there.
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Mar 14, 2015 00:44
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Angry Grimace posted:I prefer: But that card is almost strictly superior (barring negative snow interactions) to Volcanic Island, something they won't do, whereas my brilliant design provides functional equivalence while fulfilling the primary design goal (i.e. getting around the reserved list to revitalize Legacy) while at the same time giving the new cycle situational advantages and disadvantages when compared to the original cycle (snow interactions! inability to be paired with shocklands!).  edit: Though man, can you imagine how annoying Scrying Sheets Miracles would be? LGD fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 00:46
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Count Bleck posted:
I can see foils getting up to $10 if this is good in Commander (people still play Commander, right?) I don't know anything about Standard but this is pretty dogshit in any format that doesn't have 100 mana for red decks. I would personally speculate on foil 2 mana commands over it though, if I was going to pick cards to speculate on. Those are the ones that could be multi-format all-stars and actually command a decent price. e: Making snow duals would make Into The North pretty awesome.
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Mar 14, 2015 00:48
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AlternateNu posted:So. New decks that might be able to hold a candle to the current Abzan, G/w Devotion, R/w Aggro, U/B Control line-up coming out of DTK. I think you'd want it to be mono-blue splashing something else. Reality Shift is much worse than Rapid Hybridization. LGD posted:But that card is almost strictly superior (barring negative snow interactions) to Volcanic Island, something they won't do, whereas my brilliant design provides functional equivalence while fulfilling the primary design goal (i.e. getting around the reserved list to revitalize Legacy) while at the same time giving the new cycle situational advantages and disadvantages when compared to the original cycle (snow interactions! inability to be paired with shocklands!). Maro says they don't "get around" the Reserved List and won't print anything even comparable. Apparently, this doesn't apply to Reverberate for reasons. Its very clear this is not Maro's actual opinion, its simply the WOTC party line.
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Mar 14, 2015 00:50
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Rinkles posted:I didn't notice this initially either, but I think it's a she sorry, all cat demons look alike to me
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Mar 14, 2015 00:53
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LGD posted:But that card is almost strictly superior (barring negative snow interactions) to Volcanic Island, something they won't do, whereas my brilliant design provides functional equivalence while fulfilling the primary design goal (i.e. getting around the reserved list to revitalize Legacy) while at the same time giving the new cycle situational advantages and disadvantages when compared to the original cycle (snow interactions! inability to be paired with shocklands!). I had come up with a strictly better dual cycle a few weeks/months back: Land - Island Mountain When ~ enters the battlefield, if you played it from your hand, you may gain one life. There's some space too. Maybe you gain if you DIDN'T play it. Or it's not optional. But yeah it would never see print, for obvious reasons. Maybe less-painful shocklands would? When ETB, if you didn't play it from your hand, lose 1. Or lose if you didn't fetch it.
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Mar 14, 2015 00:56
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I think you want Uw splashing ephara and some other dorky poo poo if you want to run shorecrasher Which I feel like you don't. forbidden lesbian posted:sorry, all cat demons look alike to me
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Mar 14, 2015 00:56
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Angry Grimace posted:Maro says they don't "get around" the Reserved List and won't print anything even comparable. Apparently, this doesn't apply to Reverberate for reasons. Its very clear this is not Maro's actual opinion, its simply the WOTC party line. No, I'm pretty sure he's been asked about Reverberate and has said it was a mistake and we wouldn't be getting any more of those, so the party line does apply to Reverberate. That's the most frustrating thing about the entire thing, they have had multiple opportunities to get around the whole deal and have walked it back or closed loopholes in every single case. That's why anytime someone at WOTC says something like "well, it's too bad, we don't want to be handcuffed by the reserved list but we have to keep to our promises" it's impossible to take them as speaking in good faith.
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Mar 14, 2015 00:56
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forbidden lesbian posted:sorry, all cat demons look alike to me  JerryLee posted:No, I'm pretty sure he's been asked about Reverberate and has said it was a mistake and we wouldn't be getting any more of those, so the party line does apply to Reverberate. If you recall, Maro said that at one point when they were still reprinting RL stuff in foil versions, they had a big meeting with LGS representatives (which I take to mean SCG, CF, TCGplayer, etc.) and they all urged them to enforce the list and close the loophole. Reading between the lines, basically a bunch of stores with enough sales to have pull at Wizards shouted them down to protect their spec investments. Its like nerdy insider trading. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 00:57
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Angry Grimace posted:If you think Leonin and Rakshasa look the same, then what can I say, you're a racist.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:00
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Angry Grimace posted:Maro says they don't "get around" the Reserved List and won't print anything even comparable. Apparently, this doesn't apply to Reverberate for reasons. Its very clear this is not Maro's actual opinion, its simply the WOTC party line. Oh I know the official party line, but as you say there are a number of exceptions where they've printed cards that are extremely close to things on the reserved list. The point is that it's something they could do fairly easily without violating the Reserved list, not that I think they will anytime in the near future. Because, yeah as JerryLee says, they've gone out of their way to close every loophole they've had. And honestly I think they'd be better off just abolishing the stupid loving thing, but if they're not going to do that (and all indications are they aren't), I'd sure like it if they spent some time thinking of ways to improve the situation for Legacy rather than focusing all their efforts on making sure it remains an ever-growing problem. LGD fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 01:01
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LGD posted:Oh I know the official party line, but as you say there are a number of exceptions where they've printed cards that are extremely close to things on the reserved list. The point is that it's something they could do fairly easily without violating the Reserved list, not that I think they will anytime in the near future. They're already just not reprinting Force of Will and letting it be $80. But I think there's a good reason for it if you think about it - reprinting Force of Will just makes Underground Sea, Tundra and Volcanic Island even more expensive at which point people start bitching about reprinting *those* cards, which they just can't. In the end, you're just kind of hosed as a Legacy player.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:03
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Angry Grimace posted:They're already just not reprinting Force of Will and letting it be $80. But I think there's a good reason for it if you think about it - reprinting Force of Will just makes Underground Sea, Tundra and Volcanic Island even more expensive at which point people start bitching about reprinting *those* cards, which they just can't. Right, which I totally get. But the fact is that when you look at the distribution of reserved cards, it's absolutely the supply of original duals holding the format back. They have a ton of expensive staples like FoW, Wasteland, Karakas, etc. they could reprint with no problem. But that effort would be largely wasted without a supply of dual lands. If you print everything else it will make certain other reserved cards stupidly expensive, but I think I'd rather be in a situation where Elves is a stupidly expensive outlier deck because of its $500+ Cradles in a healthy and growing Legacy format, than the slow decline we have happening now.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:08
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JerryLee posted:No, I'm pretty sure he's been asked about Reverberate and has said it was a mistake and we wouldn't be getting any more of those, so the party line does apply to Reverberate. I think they are speaking in good faith, if Maro or Forsythe were god-emperors of MTG they'd get rid of the reserve list and print paper Vintage Masters as fast as they could get the cards printed. It's just that the people who support the reserve list inside WOTC aren't the people in R&D, which is the only department that talks to us.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:09
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LGD posted:Right, which I totally get. But the fact is that when you look at the distribution of reserved cards, it's absolutely the supply of original duals holding the format back. They have a ton of expensive staples like FoW, Wasteland, Karakas, etc. they could reprint with no problem. But that effort would be largely wasted without a supply of dual lands. If you print everything else it will make certain other reserved cards stupidly expensive, but I think I'd rather be in a situation where Elves is a stupidly expensive outlier deck because of its $500+ Cradles in a healthy and growing Legacy format, than the slow decline we have happening now. I've said it before, I feel that a start, at least, to solving the problem would be a slow 'grind' at the Reserved List. Don't reprint Cradles and Volcs right away. Start with Homestead and Thunder Spirit, maybe hold a poll among another 2-3 popular-but-Reserved candidates (Juzam Djinn for example), and see what the response is.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:13
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Serperoth posted:I've said it before, I feel that a start, at least, to solving the problem would be a slow 'grind' at the Reserved List. Don't reprint Cradles and Volcs right away. Start with Homestead and Thunder Spirit, maybe hold a poll among another 2-3 popular-but-Reserved candidates (Juzam Djinn for example), and see what the response is. That is also a violation of the good faith agreement without actually addressing the beneficial elements of removing the reserved list, which actually comes off as a worst case scenario.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:17
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AlternateNu posted:So. New decks that might be able to hold a candle to the current Abzan, G/w Devotion, R/w Aggro, U/B Control line-up coming out of DTK. What are you thinking in the way of a Temur Control list? I think this is something I'd be interested in messing around with. I could probably see Jeskai Tempo making it through. It stands to gain the most I think out of the UW cards coming out in DTK. As others pointed out, the new Narset's rebound seems perfect on something like a Jeskai charm, and Ojutais' Command would be at home in a deck which that runs 4 Seeker and 2-3 Soulfire. I don't think we're going to see any big UW control decks breaking out, but a tempo deck that can turn control game 2 if it was with the stupid efficient but specific white sideboard options seems alright. I'm kind of wondering though, with all the removal in this set, if Mono U Devotion really can become a thing. It just seems to easy with all the aggro hate / removal in general that's running around to nuke the Master or his tokens. I'd love it if it could since I was a big fan of the RTR/THS Mono U Deck, and still play Modern Fish as a result. I just don't see it now, even with DTK.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:25
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Serperoth posted:I've said it before, I feel that a start, at least, to solving the problem would be a slow 'grind' at the Reserved List. Don't reprint Cradles and Volcs right away. Start with Homestead and Thunder Spirit, maybe hold a poll among another 2-3 popular-but-Reserved candidates (Juzam Djinn for example), and see what the response is. That could work (and I'd love to see the list go away, or even have them host a public poll on what the community thinks), but I think if you're going to break something like the Reserved list it makes sense to do it all at once- either immediately, or by announcing the protection will go away at some (defined) point in the future. Otherwise you're incurring all of the negative consequences of violating the list, but dragging it out over a long time, while ensuring you don't gain the practical benefits in a timely manner. The advantage of doing it the other way is that WotC doesn't ever need to break the explicit promise made by the reserved list, or even violate the "spirit" for more than a few cards. It certainly doesn't involve bending their self-imposed constraints re: the spirit of the the Reserved list any more than they already have on a half-dozen or more occasions. And doing so fixes the vast majority of practical issues the reserved list creates for Legacy, while not affecting the long term value of my expansive Pygmy Hippo collection. There would still be a few rough spots (Cradle, Illusionary Mask, Chains of Mephistopheles, Rofellos, etc.) but honestly in most cases they're marginal cards and can be safely ignored. If the worst happens, they could be banned or given the same treatment- I doubt more than a handful of cards would ever warrant serious consideration for either approach. LGD fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 01:30
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I like the Seismic Stomp functional reprint, seems like a great way to punish green decks that just spew out fatties without bothering to interact with your board in any way. Well assuming they don't get Hornet Queen I guess. Twin Bolt seems pretty cool too, is can remove a lot of relevant creatures while also being a good answer to token decks. I think token decks might be pretty good even with the crazy new hoser due to how strong a finisher Secure the Wastes is. Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:No, it was when he thought this was a perfectly fine minotaur tribal commander: Sigma-X posted:I don't know anything about Standard but this is pretty dogshit in any format that doesn't have 100 mana for red decks.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:40
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Without functional reprints or getting rid of the reserved list, is there a big enough risk of a bubble happening with older formats if not magic in general? Like if enough players decided a format was just too expensive? Obviously older printings would still be more valuable, but a thought out approach could see wider availability of format staples through supplemental products to stop objections of over-printing like Chronicles, to carefully picked reprints like fetch and shocklands in mass printed expansions. I'd never expect to see things like dual lands or moxes in a core set, but somethings got to give.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:41
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Ugh, I bought a $12 card on eBay that I wanted to use tonight at FNM, but of course the dude randomly decided to spend an extra $5 to ship certified with signature confirmation (which was even dumber since he didn't charge for shipping) so I have to drive down to the Post Office tomorrow and stand in a 20 minute long line (there is always a 20 minute long line at my post office) to retrieve the loving card. I get that eBay fucks sellers these days, but gently caress it, I just take the 3 minutes to prep the card right to put it in the regular mail (I sell cards all the time and have never had any problems). Its just not worth it to spend $5 and inconvenience the poo poo out of the buyer just to protect your remaining $7.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:44
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It sounds like it's worth $7 actually. I decided to see if anyone was streaming Modo and it is a wasteland. I can't believe the new client almost killed off streaming, that's so dumb. It's free advertising.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:45
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I played Brian Lee's GP Miama RDW list at FNM tonight, I got 3 wins and 1 draw. It felt extremely consistent and reasonably powerful, with basically any draw except extreme mana flood/screw being playable. All the decks I played against were fairly aggressive (although never mono-red), which was fine because all the small removal I was packing worked great and aggro mirrors are fun.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:50
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rabidsquid posted:It sounds like it's worth $7 actually. Nobody ever screws you over $12.
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Mar 14, 2015 02:05
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Angry Grimace posted:Ugh, I bought a $12 card on eBay that I wanted to use tonight at FNM, but of course the dude randomly decided to spend an extra $5 to ship certified with signature confirmation (which was even dumber since he didn't charge for shipping) so I have to drive down to the Post Office tomorrow and stand in a 20 minute long line (there is always a 20 minute long line at my post office) to retrieve the loving card. I've got a Judge Lightning Bolt coming from England that's been sitting in NYC Customs for 50 days. So now I'm stuck with 2 chump Revised Bolts and 2 Judge Bolts until someone can figure out why it's stuck in Customs. But yeah, I really hate when people don't bother telling you they're sending it certified, especially because until I complained recently our driver never actually tried to deliver them and I had to pick it up.
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Mar 14, 2015 02:13
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Not 100% sure why I did this but I couldn't get the image out of my head as soon as I realized what the new Duress art reminded me of.
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Mar 14, 2015 02:22
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rabidsquid posted:I decided to see if anyone was streaming Modo and it is a wasteland. I can't believe the new client almost killed off streaming, that's so dumb. It's free advertising. I sort of imagine two grown men jumping up and down on a dead horse between two chicken breasts. Rip_Van_Winkle posted:Not 100% sure why I did this but I couldn't get the image out of my head as soon as I realized what the new Duress art reminded me of.
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Mar 14, 2015 02:24
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Angry Grimace posted:The only real design space left for dual lands are basically lands that care specifically about block mechanics. Seriously? ~ comes into play tapped unless your life total is X or greater. ~ comes into play tapped unless you have at least X cards in hand. ~ comes into play tapped if there are any cards in your graveyard ~ comes into play tapped if it wasn't played from your hand ~comes into play tapped if/unless you attacked with a creature this turn ~ comes into play tapped if/unless you cast a spell this turn ~ comes into play tapped if you had more lands than an opponent at the beginning of your upkeep ~ comes into play tapped unless you control another tapped permanent Plus cycles of all of the future sight lands. Plus whatever actual good ideas real designers can think up. There's a ton of things they could experiment with.
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Mar 14, 2015 02:44
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mr. mephistopheles posted:~ comes into play tapped unless your life total is X or greater. I like this but I'd make it X or less, so that the lands actually give you a (relative) boost if you're on the back foot. Aggro deck has you at 5 life by your turn 4? Have an untapped dual land so it's easier to cast a potential answer! (I know you were just throwing darts at the proverbial board with your list there.)
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Mar 14, 2015 02:47
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Someone went through and made a pretty exhaustive list of all the time parallels. Most of them are pretty obvious, but there's some cool stuff in there I didn't notice before, like Feed The Clan -> Ancient Carp.
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Mar 14, 2015 03:06
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JerryLee posted:I like this but I'd make it X or less, so that the lands actually give you a (relative) boost if you're on the back foot. Aggro deck has you at 5 life by your turn 4? Have an untapped dual land so it's easier to cast a potential answer! That would be way cooler and I like it a lot. See, tons of ideas!
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Mar 14, 2015 03:06
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BrokenKnees posted:Without functional reprints or getting rid of the reserved list, is there a big enough risk of a bubble happening with older formats if not magic in general? Like if enough players decided a format was just too expensive? I could see it with Legacy, but the whole point of Modern is to create a Legacy they can reprint cards from, even if it has to be in supplementary products. I don't think the prices will ever crash, they'll just hit a point where they stop rising because people won't be willing to pay 15k to play a deck. The only thing that could really crater Legacy is if they actually made mtgo good, but that won't happen any time soon I don't think 
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Mar 14, 2015 03:34
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Does Student of Warfare start at level one or zero?
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Mar 14, 2015 03:36
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Xeom posted:Does Student of Warfare start at level one or zero? Al level up cards start at zero.
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Mar 14, 2015 03:37
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Minority Deport posted:Someone went through and made a pretty exhaustive list of all the time parallels. Most of them are pretty obvious, but there's some cool stuff in there I didn't notice before, like Feed The Clan -> Ancient Carp. I posted that like 2 pages ago. It's the best thing in this set.
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Mar 14, 2015 04:18
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Angry Grimace posted:I prefer: Apparently during Scars of Mirrodin design they experimented with lands that were basically "T: Add X or Y to your mana pool. You get a poison counter." Which would have been hilariously good fixing in any format that didn't care about poison except it would have made the poison deck way better in those formats if anyone was running them.
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Mar 14, 2015 04:32
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Looking over the set I keep seeing cool stuff for limited that I missed. Colossodon Yearling (vanilla 2/4 for 2G) actually seems pretty good in a set that still revolves around 3-mana 2/2s.
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Mar 14, 2015 04:37
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Sultai Emissary's flavor text is pretty cute given what we know now.
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Mar 14, 2015 04:42
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So in the art for this guy: if you don't look too carefully, it looks like he has a derpy horse head looking to the left.
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Mar 14, 2015 04:46
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He is the face of red card draw. Also: I feel like there's somewhat less morph in this set? I haven't counted it out yet, though, but I think this limited environment is looking different from what I expected. I'm just setting up card pools on the sim generator though and trying to think it through.
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Mar 14, 2015 04:49
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