California Politics: Madame Senator, this is a morgue

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Papercut: Aug 24, 2005

etalian posted:

Actually real solution is to invade the NW and steal all their extra water by force.

The NW is actually in a lot of trouble as well, because they're just as reliant on snowpack as we are and they've been having crazy warm winters just like us.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 04:25

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# ? May 10, 2024 14:52

Pervis: Jan 12, 2001; YOSPOS

Papercut posted:

The NW is actually in a lot of trouble as well, because they're just as reliant on snowpack as we are and they've been having crazy warm winters just like us.

Yeah, the weather along the Pacific coast, including Alaska, has been stupidly warm the last couple of years. In the end we'll be reliant upon new agriculture technology, changing policies and subsidies (.. in what crops we grow with what water we actually get), and probably letting some more farmland go back to nature. And that's if Climate Change doesn't change our normal patterns for worse.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 04:33

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

Of course, and some smaller communities may up getting such a short end of the stick on water rights that they actually just run out of all water completely and some residents might have to figure out a new solution for drinking water. But big picture it's not as if there's a serious drinking water shortage as the poster jokingly implied.

Remember though that ag props up the central valley (Sacramento exempted) and that is already the poorest part of the state.
Without at, Fresno, for example, is even more hosed.
Residents may be able to drink water, but they'll be less likely to have jobs than even today.
This isn't to say at should get a free ride, they waste a lot of water, but we can't just say gently caress ag. Also, most of the food you eat that isn't coern, wheat, or beef is probably from the valley unless it is imported.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 04:37

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

nm posted:

Remember though that ag props up the central valley (Sacramento exempted) and that is already the poorest part of the state.
Without at, Fresno, for example, is even more hosed.
Residents may be able to drink water, but they'll be less likely to have jobs than even today.
This isn't to say at should get a free ride, they waste a lot of water, but we can't just say gently caress ag. Also, most of the food you eat that isn't coern, wheat, or beef is probably from the valley unless it is imported.

Ag water subsidies are probably the least efficient way to battle poverty in the central valley.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 04:40

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

nm posted:

Remember though that ag props up the central valley (Sacramento exempted) and that is already the poorest part of the state.
Without at, Fresno, for example, is even more hosed.
Residents may be able to drink water, but they'll be less likely to have jobs than even today.
This isn't to say at should get a free ride, they waste a lot of water, but we can't just say gently caress ag. Also, most of the food you eat that isn't coern, wheat, or beef is probably from the valley unless it is imported.

I think something that gets missed when talking about ag in the central valley is that by and large, water allocations is the limiting factor in a lot of operations. What I expect to happen and what most economic models (a very speculative endeavor to be sure) have shown, is that even with major cuts to water allocations, ag doesn't up and disappear. There is a shift to crops that are less water intensive, but with a smaller profit margin. This leads to a definite economic hit, but unless things begin to approach Mad Max levels of water shortages, things continue more or less on an even keel. Even then ag makes up less than 5% of California GDP. Yes that's significant and yes that would be increased by a knock-on effect from communities sustained by agriculture losing out, but it's not critical. Water management is definitely a critical issue for the state, and one that I don't think is being handled particularly well. It's not as if I want California's ag to suffer major setbacks from water shortages and climate change, it's just that someone was joking about drinking water and I wanted to make it clear that that usage is not something that even makes a blip in the radar and is not something that will be the major water issue for most Californians.

I think you guys are reading some kind of intention in my original post that simply isn't there.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 04:53

SlimGoodbody: Oct 20, 2003

Pervis posted:

And that's if Climate Change doesn't change our normal patterns for worse.

Don't worry, it will.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3453503

# ? Mar 14, 2015 05:21

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

doctorfrog posted:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/08/map-the-salary-you-need-to-buy-a-home-in-27-u-s-cities/

I probably don't need to tell anyone where the most expensive place to buy a house in the United States is. I was still a bit surprised at how much higher it was than anywhere else, though.

quote:

The site's calculations assume that a buyer spends 28 percent of gross monthly income on housing, including principal, interest, taxes and insurance, (in line with industry guidelines for standard "front-end" debt ratios) and makes a 20 percent down payment on a house.

Lol, 28 percent of gross on housing. If only!

Also, this is based on median pricing, rather than the most common price of units, and there are other factors that would skew these numbers too (like total number of units available).

The conclusion is still fairly valid - SF Bay Area has the most expensive housing of any metropolitan area in the country - but it's disappointing to see the same flawed methodology used over and over in these reports.

--------

Re: the water crisis, what actually has to happen is the cost of fresh water to rise to the point where desalination powered by nuclear power plants is economically feasible. At that point, we will see if there is political will, and someone will have to propose nuke station locations that won't be Fukushima'd in the Big One. Naturally this has to Not be IMBY, so the stations must go in the lowest housing price areas, probably somewhere along The I-5. Perhaps we can get some UC researchers onto the problem? We can't afford to pay them, of course, but maybe with enough delicious burritos they can be enticed into doing a study.

...there. Thread Topic Bingo! I've got power, water, ag, housing prices, the UC system, earthquakes, 'the' before road names, I-5, and burritos.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 06:52

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

Can we table nuke powered desal until after we've instituted toilet to tap?

# ? Mar 14, 2015 06:56

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

Can we table nuke powered desal until after we've instituted toilet to tap?

If you live in southern California you probably already do drink toilet to tap.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 07:32

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

Trabisnikof posted:

If you live in southern California you probably already do drink toilet to tap.

I know a significant portion of Orange County is toilet to tap, but I haven't heard of any other extensive operations outside of that. Most other counties have recycled water, but not for human consumption.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 07:39

Mayor Dave: Feb 20, 2009; Bernie the Snow Clown

I keep having visions of pecan trees being torn out and the agribusiness that ship alfalfa to China being forcibly broken up, and as the drought goes on they come more into focus

# ? Mar 14, 2015 07:47

Zachack: Jun 1, 2000

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

I know a significant portion of Orange County is toilet to tap, but I haven't heard of any other extensive operations outside of that. Most other counties have recycled water, but not for human consumption.

What do you think toilet to tap is?

# ? Mar 14, 2015 07:49

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

I know a significant portion of Orange County is toilet to tap, but I haven't heard of any other extensive operations outside of that. Most other counties have recycled water, but not for human consumption.

If you drink water from the Colorado river it went through a sewage treatment plant at some point.

Just because fish and birds then poop in it too, somehow makes it cleaner.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 07:50

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

Zachack posted:

What do you think toilet to tap is?

Potable reuse, the recycled water is used to augment the drinking water supply. Orange County currently has indirect potable reuse, it's been squelched in the other Southern California counties, mostly because the public thinks it's gross. Even if, as I've previously stated, drinking water is a very small portion of California's overall water use, getting potable water through recycling rather than massive desalinization projects seems preferable. I've never heard the term used in reference to outdoor or industrial reuse.

Trabisnikof posted:

If you drink water from the Colorado river it went through a sewage treatment plant at some point.

Just because fish and birds then poop in it too, somehow makes it cleaner.

Fair enough, as this episode proved people are weird about human waste in their water that's otherwise exposed to the elements. I'd like to see it implemented as explicit policy and end the practice of discharging wastewater into the ocean outside of emergency situations.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 08:04

obi_ant: Apr 8, 2005

What would be worse? Living in a Fallout-esqe / Mad Max like world where everything is dusty and horrible but lots of land? Or having plenty of water but living on a boat much like Water World with Kevin Costner?

# ? Mar 14, 2015 09:22

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

The fact that Nestle is still pumping water to maximize future profits should have people out with pitchforks and fiery implements.

This is from last year, but nothing has changed.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/07/16/corporate-greed-exacerbates-drought-nestle-believes-water-basic-human.html
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jul/27/water-nestle-drink-charge-privatize-companies-stocks

quote:

Corporate Greed Exacerbates Drought: Nestle Believes Water Is Not a Basic Human Right

...

However, while the rest of the state is attempting to conserve what little life-sustaining water California has left, the Nestle Company ignores the emergency measures the state adopted because its water bottling plant is conveniently located on a Native American reservation. Like all N.A. reservations, it is considered a sovereign nation by the US government. It is a water-theft enterprise any greedy corporation would lust after because unlike farmers, individual Californians, and every municipality in the state, Nestle is exempt from complying with any water-saving state or federal regulations. To make matters worse, Nestle is depleting what precious water reserves lie deep underground in the aquifer and pumping it directly to its bottling plant and selling it for profit. This is not a new endeavor for Nestle, and their blatant disregard for Californians� need for basic survival was best expressed by Nestle�s CEO and Chairman.

...

Although the extreme California drought is just one reason to take action against Nestle, the point is the giant corporation is pillaging a basic necessity for human life all over the world with little opposition and relative impunity. The company touts job creation as validation for draining the water supply dry and selling it back to thirsty Americans, but when they have exhausted the water supply, no amount of jobs or money will sustain life devoid of water. There is no end to the disregard for human life that corporations have made their overriding mission after profit taking, and at least in one California region, there is no possibility of holding a truly vile and inhumane corporation accountable for a crime against humanity; stealing their dwindling water supply and selling it back for profit because they set up shop in a sovereign nation inside drought-stricken California.

quote:

At the forefront of this firestorm is Peter Brabeck, chairman and former CEO of Nestle.

In his view, citizens don�t have an automatic right to more than the water they require for mere �survival�, unless they can afford to pay for it.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 10:23

withak: Jan 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

FRINGE posted:

The fact that Nestle is still pumping water to maximize future profits should have people out with pitchforks and fiery implements.

Abuela Grillo will show up and put things right.

https://vimeo.com/11429985

# ? Mar 14, 2015 15:32

SlimGoodbody: Oct 20, 2003

FRINGE posted:

The fact that Nestle is still pumping water to maximize future profits should have people out with pitchforks and fiery implements.

This is from last year, but nothing has changed.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/07/16/corporate-greed-exacerbates-drought-nestle-believes-water-basic-human.html
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jul/27/water-nestle-drink-charge-privatize-companies-stocks

Ever since I saw the interview with the CEO of Nestlé where he went on about how water is a product and he owns it and no human deserves it unless they can pay, I have unironically, truly believed the board and CEO of Nestle deserve to be clamped in public stocks, stripped of their belongings, and then told they can only drink what they can afford to buy with their now empty pockets.

The dude is like a real life version of the lovely villain from awful movie Tank Girl.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 20:53

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

There is a good reason to be cautious about using human wastewater for human consumption, and that's because historically, human waste-contaminated water has been a massive health problem. Parasites, bacteria dangerous to humans, and human viruses infecting human hosts wind up in the human drinking water and spread that way. Animal waste is still gross, but isn't as dangerous in terms of the potential for pandemic.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, of course. Only that it has to be done with a great deal of caution.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 00:06

Shbobdb: Dec 16, 2010; by Reene

Which is why we have to let the free market control it. The government would just mess it up!

# ? Mar 15, 2015 00:11

withak: Jan 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

I propose that we irradiate the water for everyone's safety.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 00:14

ComradeCosmobot: Dec 4, 2004; USPOL July

withak posted:

I propose that we irradiate the water for everyone's safety.

Too dangerous. However, by mixing this 60x homeopathic dilution, we can accomplish much the same thing without the danger irradiation poses!

# ? Mar 15, 2015 01:49

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Or both stupid options could be skipped in favor of strong UV, which actually works.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 02:31

Shbobdb: Dec 16, 2010; by Reene

Colloidal silver. California:the bluest state

Edit: or we can just wait for someone to develop an app to solve our water problems.

Shbobdb fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Mar 15, 2015

# ? Mar 15, 2015 02:36

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Shbobdb posted:

Colloidal silver. California:the bluest state

Semi-ironically that would work too. (Except for the scale... which would not be sustainable I would not think?)

Sadly no one would turn blue. (Unless they went out of their way to achieve that lofty goal.)

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/experiments/1060.html

quote:

On station, silver is used as a biocidal agent based on its antimicrobial properties in the potable water system. Recent studies have shown the possible toxicity of colloidal silver to humans, including crew members aboard the ISS. Researchers are currently developing and testing a simple technique that will enable crew members to test silver levels in the water system in less than two minutes (Hill et al 2010).

http://phys.org/news172133019.html

quote:

Space is not a fun place to get a stomach bug. To ensure drinking water is adequately disinfected, University of Utah chemists developed a two-minute water quality monitoring method that just started six months of tests aboard the International Space Station.

"Now they bring water back on the space shuttle and analyze it on the ground. The problem is there is a big delay. You'd like to be able to maintain iodine or silver [disinfectant] levels in real time with an onboard monitor," says Marc Porter, a University of Utah professor of chemistry and chemical engineering.

The new method involves sampling space station or space shuttle galley water with syringes, forcing the water through a chemical-imbued disk-shaped membrane, and then reading the color of the membrane with a commercially available, handheld color sensor normally used to measure the color and glossiness of automobile paint.

The sensor detects if the drinking water contains enough iodine (used on U.S. spacecraft) or silver (used by the Russians) to kill any microbes. The International Space Station has both kinds of water purification systems.

...

The project began a decade ago, before Porter joined the Utah faculty, when NASA sought proposals for disinfectant or "biocide" monitors to check the safety of drinking water on manned spacecraft.

"You can't sterilize water well enough to keep things from growing in it," Porter says. "Nature happens."

NASA uses iodine as a disinfectant on U.S. spacecraft. The Russians use colloidal silver - pure silver nanoparticles, some of which go into solution.

The problem for both iodine and silver is that microbes grow in the water if levels are too low. If levels are too high, iodine-treated water tastes bad and eventually might cause thyroid problems, and silver at excessive levels can turn the skin grayish blue.

...

To test for iodine, the disk is impregnated with PVP (polyvinylpyrrolidone), a nontoxic chemical in contact lens cleaning solutions. The PVP reacts with iodine, and the intensity of the resulting yellow color reveals the concentration of iodine in the water.

To test for silver in water, the disk is imbued with DMABR, which is short for 5-(dimethylaminobenzylidene)rhodanine. A yellowish color indicates silver is absent, while flesh to brighter pink reveals how much silver is present.

"We can do this whole analysis in about two minutes on the ground or in space," Porter says.

That stuff is another case where the faux-skeptics have gone crazy spreading misinformation.

The blue people (the entire handful of them) are crazies that chug the stuff they produce in their garage.

Although I think the world needs more blue people. :colbert:

# ? Mar 15, 2015 02:56

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

SlimGoodbody posted:

Ever since I saw the interview with the CEO of Nestlé where he went on about how water is a product and he owns it and no human deserves it unless they can pay, I have unironically, truly believed the board and CEO of Nestle deserve to be clamped in public stocks, stripped of their belongings, and then told they can only drink what they can afford to buy with their now empty pockets.

The dude is like a real life version of the lovely villain from awful movie Tank Girl.

Not that he's not a bit of a fucker, but I'm looking over the interview and he's pretty clear that water for hydration and hygiene is a human right.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 02:57

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Not that he's not a bit of a fucker, but I'm looking over the interview and he's pretty clear that water for hydration and hygiene is a human right.

The bare minimum you need to not die.

What a thoughtful humanitarian.

"Of course my records here indicate that you have used you allotment for the month. Can you prove otherwise? Would you like to purchase a few milliliters while you gather your evidence?"

# ? Mar 15, 2015 02:59

b0lt: Apr 29, 2005

FRINGE posted:

The fact that Nestle is still pumping water to maximize future profits should have people out with pitchforks and fiery implements.

This is from last year, but nothing has changed.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/07/16/corporate-greed-exacerbates-drought-nestle-believes-water-basic-human.html
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jul/27/water-nestle-drink-charge-privatize-companies-stocks

How is this any worse than using water to grow rice in the middle of a desert?

# ? Mar 15, 2015 03:57

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

b0lt posted:

How is this any worse than using water to grow rice in the middle of a desert?

The vast majority of California rice is grown in the Sacramento Valley which isn't exactly a desert.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 04:04

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Trabisnikof posted:

The vast majority of California rice is grown in the Sacramento Valley which isn't exactly a desert.

Yes. A reminder that before man hosed with it, that part of the sacramento valley was underwater for large periods of the year.
That part of the valley only has water issues because of water shipments still going south.
The sacramento bypass still flooded this year, a huge swath of land.

Also none of the productive parts of the central valley can be accurately termed a desert.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 04:18

withak: Jan 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

Depends on whether you count by the amount of rainfall that lands there or the by the amount of water that flows past there.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 04:22

Kaal: May 22, 2002; through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Well it's good to know that the farmers who have been blowing through all the water for more profits are also making bank off of the drought.

Sacramento Bee posted:

As drought worsens, L.A. water agency offers cash to Sacramento Valley farmers

With the drought stretching into its fourth year, a heavyweight water agency from Los Angeles has come calling on Sacramento Valley rice farmers, offering up to $71 million for some of their water.

The price being offered is so high, some farmers can make more from selling water than from growing their rice. Many are willing to deal: Nine irrigation districts, mainly serving rice growers along the Feather River basin, have made tentative deals to ship a portion of their water to the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California and several other water agencies later this summer.

Almost all of the buyers are located south of the Delta, where the water shortage is generally more critical than in the Sacramento Valley.

As many as 115,000 acre-feet of water could be sold, or more than 37 billion gallons, to Metropolitan and its fellow buyers. The result: a reduction in the amount of rice planted as farmers take fields out of production. As it is, California�s rice industry is struggling to recover from a difficult 2014, in which 140,000 acres were idled due to drought and one-fourth of the crop didn�t get planted.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/water-and-drought/article13908632.html

# ? Mar 15, 2015 05:15

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Kaal posted:

Well it's good to know that the farmers who have been blowing through all the water for more profits are also making bank off of the drought.

You realize those farmers are in Northern California and as your own quote points out they're selling their water and not growing crops instead. Isn't that what you want?

Also farming is insanely low margin in general.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 05:55

Kaal: May 22, 2002; through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Trabisnikof posted:

You realize those farmers are in Northern California and as your own quote points out they're selling their water and not growing crops instead. Isn't that what you want? Also farming is insanely low margin in general.

It's not their water, it's the public's water. Why the heck should they be getting a dime for it? If anyone is going to be selling off public resources, it should be a state utility with the public's interest in mind. Farming is low margin because there's massive farms driving the cost of food so low that Americans throw out 40% of their food. Those farms have engaged in a down-spiraling price war with each other for decades, happily using any means at their disposal to boost profits regardless of the effect on their land or the sustainability of their industry. As a result, the United States spends millions every year in farming subsidies, the environment is at a breaking point, mono-cropping is at an all-time high, and small farmers continue to be forced out of the market. Clearly racing to the bottom while handing out subsidies to the largest farmers does not improve things for agricultural communities.

What I want is the creation of a national waterway management agency that oversees all water usage and implements sustainable pricing tiers on all parties that is based on the true value of water and encourages responsible usage. This robber baron/free-market disaster-in-the-making that unites unsustainable real estate development with entrenched corporations doesn't look at all like what anyone should want.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 06:42

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Kaal posted:

This robber baron/free-market disaster-in-the-making that unites unsustainable real estate development with entrenched corporations

Going back to:

http://www.alternet.org/story/144020/how_limousine_liberals,_water_oligarchs_and_even_sean_hannity_are_hijacking_our_water_supply

quote:

A group of water oligarchs in California have engineered a disastrous deregulation and privatization scheme. And they've pulled in hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars without causing much public outrage. The amount of power and control they wield over California's most precious resource, water, should shock and frighten us -- and it would, if more people were aware of it.

...

But the secretive crew that met in Monterey did more than just privatize one underground water reservoir. California's water oligarchy hammered out a plan that put them at the controls of the state's water market and gave them the ability to create non-existent water out of thin air.

http://exiledonline.com/california-class-war-history-meet-the-oligarch-family-thats-been-scamming-taxpayers-for-150-years-and-counting/

quote:

But more than anything, Miller is remembered today for his impact on California�s water economy. Before everybody else, Miller realized that water would become the state�s most valuable and strategic resource. Early on, he and his business partners acquired land on both sides of major California rivers, allowing him to monopolize and control the agricultural water supply. Miller had over 100 miles of the San Joaquin River, one of the largest in the state, sewed up tight. He also controlled 50 miles of Kern River frontage.

...

Not only did this deal hand the Nickels 10,000 acre-feet of water a year in perpetuity, it gave the family license to sell the water to anyone or any place along the 700-mile stretch of the California Aqueduct. This amount is enough to hydrate a city of 100,000 people, and could easily fetch $8 million a year.

The best part? No matter how much money the Nickels make selling this water allotment, California is obligated to deliver it at taxpayers� expense. That�s right. California residents incur all the costs, the Nickels take home all the profits. That�s how California�s nobility likes�and expects�to be treated in its home state.

https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/oligarch-valley/

quote:

My interest in the Oligarch Valley developed purely by accident: I stumbled onto it after moving to the subprime desert suburb of Victorville in 2009. At the time, California was in the grips of a minor drought and the local water agency was forced to augment its dwindling supply by buying $73 million worth of water from a Central Valley family farm. The water, which was to be shipped in from the Bay Area hundreds of miles away via the State Aqueduct, was enough to fill up a kiddie pool the size of San Francisco and sustain up to 30,000 families for an entire year.

The scheme seemed more in line what Bechtel was trying to do in Bolivia than anything that could happen here in sunny, liberal California. And it piqued my curiosity. Who the hell were these farmers, and how the hell did they have so much water to spare during a drought? Were they going out of business and giving up their water? And if so, why did they get to sell it? After all, California's constitution defines water as a public resource�

And the more I looked, the more I realized that Bolivia and California might not be so far apart.

Just a few snippets. They are all much longer and worth looking through.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 06:58

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Kaal posted:

It's not their water, it's the public's water. Why the heck should they be getting a dime for it? If anyone is going to be selling off public resources, it should be a state utility with the public's interest in mind.

It actually is their water because they bought the water rights and are now reselling it. Now if you want to complain that because the farmers bought the water rights a long time ago they paid too little, well that could be a good argument. But the idea that farmers should just give up water they bought for free isn't.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 07:35

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Groundwater should not be "owned" like a watch or a car is "owned".

# ? Mar 15, 2015 07:41

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

FRINGE posted:

Groundwater should not be "owned" like a watch or a car is "owned".

This is river water. I'm still not sure sending water down south to wash cars and water golf courses is all that more productive than growing food.
Rancho Cucamonga is still prosecuting people who don't water lawns.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 08:05

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

nm posted:

Rancho Cucamonga is still prosecuting people who don't water lawns.

Of course they are.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 08:12

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# ? May 10, 2024 14:52

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

FRINGE posted:

Of course they are.

Eh, actually upland. They have the same city attorney. http://www.dailybulletin.com//general-news/20150116/upland-battle-over-man-not-watering-lawn-heads-to-trial
I've seen pgotos of the prior "lawn" it wasn't a mess or anything.
Dirt and rocks is what you should replace your lawn with in an acute drought. Drought tolerant plants require more water the first year than an already grown long. Long term, the drought tolerant plants win, but now is not the time to install them. Just let it die, put down some colorful rocks or something. Of course, the time to plant those plants everyone will think "hey, we have lots of water, why plant those plants when I can have a nice green lawn?"

I'm sure Rancho would do the same.

nm fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Mar 15, 2015

# ? Mar 15, 2015 08:17

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > California Politics: Madame Senator, this is a morgue

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