TG March Chat Thread: Happy Saint Cuthbert's Day

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG March Chat Thread: Happy Saint Cuthbert's Day

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

ProfessorCirno posted:

Have there been situations where this hobby has interacted with the real world outside it's bubble and didn't come off as a poor joke?

I think it largely depends on how respectful it is and how far you go to actually try to engage. The link mentions Assassin's Creed as a positive example; Ubisoft actually hired people on to help them regarding their depictions of Mohawk culture and approached it from the sense of "ok we don't actually know much about this, help us not be blithering assholes," and the end result worked out really well (shame about the actual game though...). In this case Monte Cook Games just went full Peter Pan. It's one step away from transcribing "What Made the Red Man Red?"

D&D 3e.

I still feel I must be the only person in the world who actually enjoyed Assassin's Creed 3.

Also, what were kobolds before the whole "dragon servant" things?

# ? Mar 14, 2015 21:32

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# ? May 23, 2024 16:28

Ewen Cluney: May 8, 2012; Ask me about
Japanese elfgames!

bunnielab posted:

Doesn't like every game that tries to include real world cultures engage in the sweeping stereotypes and generalizations? Is there any way to use the real word as a game setting that isn't going to piss off someone?

Having absolutely no one get mad at you is just not possible, but getting real information from people from the actual culture will both keep you from putting in stuff that's laughably bad and provide you with interesting material you'd never have found otherwise. Monte Cook Games had Native Americans coming to them wanting to have a dialogue, and passed up the opportunity to make their game better. Even if we were to ignore the cultural appropriation angle, there's also the fact that I have no doubt that anyone with real knowledge of Native American culture would find a bunch of stuff in the book to be dumb and wrong, on the level of V:tM having the Italian clan called "Giovanni" (which is a given name, the equivalent of "John").

A while back I had an idea for a Golden Sky Stories setting in the American southwest. I'd still like to do it some day, but I realized that there was just no way I could do it justice without consulting with some Native Americans from the region. Granted I don't particularly want to offend those people, but it's also that I want to make better games, and if I try to represent another culture in something I make I want those people to like what they see.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 21:41

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

What do you mean "those people"?

:v:

# ? Mar 14, 2015 21:49

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

I was reading a PF book at the Barnes & Noble today with the intent of giving my friend's game a chance.

I happened to see that a gunslinger apparently can't do stuff like shoot off a lock or a small inanimate object until they're level 3 and have their metacurrency available.

What.

Covok posted:

Also, what were kobolds before the whole "dragon servant" things?

Little yippy dog people.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:00

Zurui: Apr 20, 2005; Even now...

Evil Mastermind posted:

Little yippy dog people.

Corgbolds forever.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:07

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

BARK BARK BARK!

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:14

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

ProfessorCirno posted:

Have there been situations where this hobby has interacted with the real world outside it's bubble and didn't come off as a poor joke?

You mean through its representation of the real world?

If you mean purely interacting with the real world and not coming off as a poor joke ... maybe? For as much as there is always some implied eye-rolling at the material whenever Dungeons & Dragons comes up in pop culture, I do not think the Community episodes seemed to make fun of it any more than would be expected given the comedic nature of the show. There are surely not very many examples, though. Stephen Colbert's Gygax memorial was pretty sincere, but that is kind of expected.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:16

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

moths posted:

BARK BARK BARK!

They were little dog men when I started.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:19

bongwizzard: May 19, 2005; Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"; Grimey Drawer

I guess I don't take games serious enough to really care about their intersection with real-life issues, but gently caress it if making kobolds tiny little dragons doesn't piss me off.

To be more serious, I, as someone who is trying to get back into gaming, find it kinda weird how serious this stuff is being taken. I assume back when I was a kid and into this stuff there were people posting on BBS's getting all mad about things but it just seems so strange to get worked up about such an innocuous seeming pastime. Maybe I am just old.

Somewhat related, I bought the Dungeon World PDF and I kinda dig it. I am reading a few of the old PBP games to try and get a feel for how it plays and it seems to be close enough to what I want. I mean, I would love some old D&D action but it seems like trying to play that online would be hugely underwhelming.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:20

bongwizzard: May 19, 2005; Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"; Grimey Drawer

Evil Mastermind posted:

They were little dog men when I started.

Exactly, they are fuckin dog-men. Why was that so bad?

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:22

Ronwayne: Nov 20, 2007; That warm and fuzzy feeling.

bunnielab posted:

I guess I don't take games serious enough to really care about their intersection with real-life issues, but gently caress it if making kobolds tiny little dragons doesn't piss me off.

In my opinion the worst part of that was people jacking off over PunPun for about half a decade.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:22

Terrible Opinions: Oct 18, 2013

bunnielab posted:

Exactly, they are fuckin dog-men. Why was that so bad?

I've seen this argument play out dozens of times on different groggy forums. The basic reason they changed was that they've always been described as having scales even in 1st edition when they were dogs and the example fluff given to the artist for 3rd ed was all from the Dragon Mountain adventure where a tribe served the dragon level boss. So the artist just assumed they were little dragon people and the fluff moved to follow the art.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:27

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

bunnielab posted:

To be more serious, I, as someone who is trying to get back into gaming, find it kinda weird how serious this stuff is being taken. I assume back when I was a kid and into this stuff there were people posting on BBS's getting all mad about things but it just seems so strange to get worked up about such an innocuous seeming pastime. Maybe I am just old.

You are not old if you were too young to use BBSs :haw:

Let me tell you what I remember the BBS discussions about D&D from my childhood being like:

I CAN'T BELIEVE T$R IS BANNING PEOPLE MAKING WEBPAGES*, DON'T THEY KNOW THEY ARE KILLING THE HOBBY
HAHA YOU STILL PLAY D&D? ARE YOU LIKE 12? VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE IS GAMING FOR ADULTS
VAMPIRE IS FOR LOSER GOTH CRYBABIES, REAL GAMERS PLAY CHAMPIONS/DARK CONSPIRACY/CYBERPUNK/SHADOWRUN/GURPS/RIFTS**
AT LEAST WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT THE MAGIC: THE GATHERING KIDDIES ARE THE WORST, GOOD THING THAT FAD WILL BE OVER IN SIX MONTHS

So not that different, really.

*Yes, I used the Internet and BBSs simultaneously for like 5 years. The World Wide Web was a much less all-encompassingly useful place in the 1990s.
**It would not surprise me if there were some degree of regionalism inherent in what was seen as the "other important RPG" at this point. I mean, Tunnels & Trolls was seemingly always a little popular in... you know... Arizona. I sincerely doubt Champions was really that popular anywhere, but man, in Central Illinois, there were dozens of campaigns active in the mid-1990s! BUT WHY???

Dr. Quarex fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Mar 14, 2015

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:30

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

Quarex posted:

You mean through its representation of the real world?

If you mean purely interacting with the real world and not coming off as a poor joke ... maybe? For as much as there is always some implied eye-rolling at the material whenever Dungeons & Dragons comes up in pop culture, I do not think the Community episodes seemed to make fun of it any more than would be expected given the comedic nature of the show. There are surely not very many examples, though. Stephen Colbert's Gygax memorial was pretty sincere, but that is kind of expected.

I guess I mean more the industry rather then the hobby. Like, have there been many - or any - cases where people deep in this industry suddenly have outside attention put on them and they don't immediately ruin everything?

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:30

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

bunnielab posted:

Exactly, they are fuckin dog-men. Why was that so bad?

Because it's dumb and boring, and we already have goblins. "Goblins, BUT THEY USE TRAPS" is a poo poo niche.

I like kobolds as dog-lizards who are somehow connected to dragons but nobody is quite sure how.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:31

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

ProfessorCirno posted:

I guess I mean more the industry rather then the hobby. Like, have there been many - or any - cases where people deep in this industry suddenly have outside attention put on them and they don't immediately ruin everything?

No.

Though it seems like if 60 Minutes' Dungeons & Dragons segment had not been a carefully-orchestrated hit piece, then Gary Gygax' testimony would have probably made him look pretty good. He was certainly capable of walking in the normal people's world, as he really did treat D&D like a game virtually no different than any other game, as opposed to a lifestyle choice. Well, in public, anyway.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:31

bongwizzard: May 19, 2005; Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"; Grimey Drawer

Here is an other old guy question; how is the Dragonlance setting viewed today? As a kid we dismissed it as "girl crap" but I kinda remember likening some,of the novels? Especially one that that had some lusty female dwarf merchant as a main character?

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:32

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Covok posted:

Also, what were kobolds before the whole "dragon servant" things?

They were basically the lowest-tier humanoid monsters in the game. Below ogres, below bugbears or hobgoblins or goblins, below troglodytes, below lizard-men, below sahuagin, below orcs, there were kobolds. They had terrible stats, terrible treasure drops, and I think they were only non-gimmick (i.e. rot grub and suchlike) monster in the AD&D MM 1E to have less than one hit die. They were kind of a running punchline in the game and their only 'hook' was how much they sucked at everything. There were various efforts made to make them more interesting or threatening - in 2E they were made masters of traps and ambushes and sneakily ganging up of adventurers, and in 3E they got made into li'l dragonlings.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:33

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

They also jealously guard their candles.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:38

bongwizzard: May 19, 2005; Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"; Grimey Drawer

Quarex posted:

You are not old if you were too young to use BBSs

Let me tell you what I remember the BBS discussions about D&D from my childhood being like:

I CAN'T BELIEVE T$R IS BANNING PEOPLE MAKING WEBPAGES*, DON'T THEY KNOW THEY ARE KILLING THE HOBBY
HAHA YOU STILL PLAY D&D? ARE YOU LIKE 12? VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE IS GAMING FOR ADULTS
VAMPIRE IS FOR LOSER GOTH CRYBABIES, REAL GAMERS PLAY CHAMPIONS/DARK CONSPIRACY/CYBERPUNK/SHADOWRUN/GURPS/RIFTS
AT LEAST WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT THE MAGIC: THE GATHERING KIDDIES ARE THE WORST, GOOD THING THAT FAD WILL BE OVER IN SIX MONTHS

So not that different, really.

*Yes, I used the Internet and BBSs simultaneously for like 5 years. The World Wide Web was a much less all-encompassingly useful place in the 1990s.

Hah. Well, I graduated HS in 96, and while I was aware of the Internet, it wasn't until maybe 98 that I used it myself. And even then it was just for IRC, which we only used to arrange rides to shows and drugs sales.

I do remember being like 15 and thinking Magic was cool, but untimely just a fad like pogs, which is why I traded all my cards for lovely weed. I started early and remember having like three of those Black Lotus things.

As to goblins vs kobolds, I believe it was a deal were in goblins were more of a forest based thing that were like lesser orcs and kobolds were more of a crafty underground thing that were only dangerous if they tricked you somehow? I fear this is going to eventually lead me into paying way too much on eBay for a bunch of old books.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:40

unseenlibrarian: Jun 4, 2012; There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

I have a soft spot for Dog-Kobolds from too much Suikoden back in the day.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 22:51

Zurui: Apr 20, 2005; Even now...

I always thought of it as Kobold culture revolving around service to the Biggest Bad they could find - which is usually a dragon, but sometimes a lich or maybe a beholder. Kobold tribes defend their patron until some stupid tall people come in and ruin their day. Most of them run away and wander about until they find a new evil master and the cycle repeats.

# ? Mar 14, 2015 23:28

Der Waffle Mous: Nov 27, 2009; In the grim future, there is only commerce.

unseenlibrarian posted:

I have a soft spot for Dog-Kobolds from too much Suikoden back in the day.

I can't not see the two on the side as Fox McCloud and MCU Nick Fury.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 00:27

FastestGunAlive: Apr 7, 2010; Dancing palm tree.

bunnielab posted:

Here is an other old guy question; how is the Dragonlance setting viewed today? As a kid we dismissed it as "girl crap" but I kinda remember likening some,of the novels? Especially one that that had some lusty female dwarf merchant as a main character?

I don't think its viewed much at all today. Much like the other old school settings its pretty much forgotten except a few die hards. From time to time I see people in the fantasy books thread go back to the novels for nostalgia's sake but they don't stay long. I only read a few of the novels and never gamed in it but I'd imagine there's some community out there still discussing it, possibly updating/homebrewing with it (I know there is for Ravenloft so I'd imagine the same for the other old settings).

unseenlibrarian posted:

I have a soft spot for Dog-Kobolds from too much Suikoden back in the day.

I need to play this

also, obligatory kobold video-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T_yyLmRqFI

# ? Mar 15, 2015 00:49

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Kobolds are cute and fun, and as long as they remain that way they are fine.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 01:41

Tendales: Mar 9, 2012

Zurui posted:

I always thought of it as Kobold culture revolving around service to the Biggest Bad they could find - which is usually a dragon, but sometimes a lich or maybe a beholder. Kobold tribes defend their patron until some stupid tall people come in and ruin their day. Most of them run away and wander about until they find a new evil master and the cycle repeats.

A setting where kobolds don't just fling themselves into the service of a big bad, but over the course of a couple generations start to physically resemble them. Kobolds serving a dragon become scaly little lizardfolk. Kobolds serving a lich become gaunt little mini-Renfields.

These guys serve Cerberus or something.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 02:03

Bob Quixote: Jul 7, 2006; This post has been inspected and certified by the Dino-Sorcerer; Grimey Drawer

The Vosgian Beast posted:

Kobolds are cute and fun, and as long as they remain that way they are fine.

But if Kobolds are cute that just makes murdering them for their 4 copper pieces and rusty daggers even sadder.

Can't they just be tiny monsters who are still awful in some other way - like maybe they are all really racist or they don't tip when they go to restaurants or something?

# ? Mar 15, 2015 02:14

PurpleXVI: Oct 30, 2011; Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

ProfessorCirno posted:

Because it's dumb and boring, and we already have goblins. "Goblins, BUT THEY USE TRAPS" is a poo poo niche.

I like kobolds as dog-lizards who are somehow connected to dragons but nobody is quite sure how.

I think the problem isn't a connection to a bigger, badder species but specifically dragons, one of the biggest and baddest. It feels somehow, kinda... Mary Sue-ish. Part of the bad taste is probably because 3E seemed to coincide with such a vast amount of people jerking off over kobolds, which was especially choking and loving annoying if you posted on /tg/ over on 4chan, where there seemed to be an entire kobold fetish subculture. gently caress whatever stupid oval office wrote "Tucker's Kobolds," which is a loving terrible kobold fanfic which bizarrely gets praised as being SO COOOOOOL despite being also an example of terrible loving GM'ing.

I just miss kobolds as the little comedy relief dorks at the bottom of the pecking order, just barely above housecats, trying to make them cool was a terrible idea.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 02:19

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

Dungeon of housecats would be a great 2e gag one shot.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 02:40

Doodmons: Jan 17, 2009

PurpleXVI posted:

I think the problem isn't a connection to a bigger, badder species but specifically dragons, one of the biggest and baddest. It feels somehow, kinda... Mary Sue-ish. Part of the bad taste is probably because 3E seemed to coincide with such a vast amount of people jerking off over kobolds, which was especially choking and loving annoying if you posted on /tg/ over on 4chan, where there seemed to be an entire kobold fetish subculture. gently caress whatever stupid oval office wrote "Tucker's Kobolds," which is a loving terrible kobold fanfic which bizarrely gets praised as being SO COOOOOOL despite being also an example of terrible loving GM'ing.

I just miss kobolds as the little comedy relief dorks at the bottom of the pecking order, just barely above housecats, trying to make them cool was a terrible idea.

A particular fictional monster getting a refluff and becoming less poo poo seems like a weird and weirdly specific thing to get mad about, yo.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 02:53

MadScientistWorking: Jun 23, 2010; "I was going through a time period where I was looking up weird stories involving necrophilia..."

Rulebook Heavily posted:

Oh and then Shanna Germain started mocking natives on twitter and Cordell accused people of just wanting to be outraged.

So wait they managed to take the premise behind the Twilight Zone and somehow managed to make it the most boring milquetoast thing imaginable. Ahhhhhhhh........

# ? Mar 15, 2015 02:54

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Tendales posted:

A setting where kobolds don't just fling themselves into the service of a big bad, but over the course of a couple generations start to physically resemble them. Kobolds serving a dragon become scaly little lizardfolk. Kobolds serving a lich become gaunt little mini-Renfields.

These guys serve Cerberus or something.

this is a good idea

# ? Mar 15, 2015 02:57

SunAndSpring: Dec 4, 2013

MadScientistWorking posted:

So wait they managed to take the premise behind the Twilight Zone and somehow managed to make it the most boring milquetoast thing imaginable. Ahhhhhhhh........

I don't want to discount The Strange altogether because I liked some of the stuff in Numenera, even though the mechanics for the game were rather awkward, but I don't understand why he can't just change some things around until they are satisfactory.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 03:06

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

FastestGunAlive posted:

also, obligatory kobold video-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T_yyLmRqFI

What the

I ... I do not remember any animated cutscenes in Baldur's Gate. And I played it through all the way more than once.

And yet ... there it is.

PurpleXVI posted:

"Tucker's Kobolds," which is a loving terrible kobold fanfic which bizarrely gets praised as being SO COOOOOOL despite being also an example of terrible loving GM'ing.

I can agree from what little I can find about Tucker's Kobolds that this was probably an example of some gamemaster who loved being an rear end in a top hat to his players, but it does make me think that "having some incredibly weak creatures who try to think like a group of PCs planning a devious ambush" could be pretty fun. Like, if you actually figure out where they are hiding, you can kill all of them almost immediately, but if not, then bad things could happen.

It would just have to avoid being "BWAHA IDIOTS WHY DIDN'T YOU CHECK THE TRAP ITSELF FOR A SECRET LEVER?!?! OBVIOUS!" or other scrub-level gamemaster trickery.

Bob Quixote posted:

But if Kobolds are cute that just makes murdering them for their 4 copper pieces and rusty daggers even sadder.

Can't they just be tiny monsters who are still awful in some other way - like maybe they are all really racist or they don't tip when they go to restaurants or something?

Kobolds have but one overriding passion: ethics in gaming journalism

# ? Mar 15, 2015 03:27

bongwizzard: May 19, 2005; Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"; Grimey Drawer

So Kobolds, in addition to being little dragons, were also trendy at some point?

# ? Mar 15, 2015 03:29

Wrestlepig: Feb 25, 2011; my mum says im cool; Toilet Rascal

Quarex posted:

What the

I ... I do not remember any animated cutscenes in Baldur's Gate. And I played it through all the way more than once.

I think you needed to do a bigger install to get the cutscenes. They're all just really basic intros to areas.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 03:32

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

Quarex posted:

I can agree from what little I can find about Tucker's Kobolds that this was probably an example of some gamemaster who loved being an rear end in a top hat to his players, but it does make me think that "having some incredibly weak creatures who try to think like a group of PCs planning a devious ambush" could be pretty fun. Like, if you actually figure out where they are hiding, you can kill all of them almost immediately, but if not, then bad things could happen.

It would just have to avoid being "BWAHA IDIOTS WHY DIDN'T YOU CHECK THE TRAP ITSELF FOR A SECRET LEVER?!?! OBVIOUS!" or other scrub-level gamemaster trickery.

Tucker's Kobolds was pretty mind-blowing at the time because back then kobolds were just 1/4 HD critters you stopped fighting at level 3 because they weren't a threat anymore. On top of that, most combat encounters were just groups of monsters just slamming into PCs with no real planning.

Hense the high-level paladin going in solo because they're just kobolds, they're no threat!

# ? Mar 15, 2015 03:51

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Tendales posted:

A setting where kobolds don't just fling themselves into the service of a big bad, but over the course of a couple generations start to physically resemble them. Kobolds serving a dragon become scaly little lizardfolk. Kobolds serving a lich become gaunt little mini-Renfields.

These guys serve Cerberus or something.

I'm down.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 04:00

neonchameleon: Nov 14, 2012

bunnielab posted:

Exactly, they are fuckin dog-men. Why was that so bad?

Pre-3e, Kobolds were almost interchangeable with trap-setting goblins. They weren't comic relief especially. They didn't fit in with anything else. They were punching bags in the same way that goblins were. They were the bottom of the food chain in the same way goblins were. But they have fewer hooks to anything else than Goblins (who get the hobgoblin/orc/bugbear family). They were a singularly pointless monster because there was nothing you could do with them you couldn't also do with the more common goblins.

4e, as ever, got the fluff right. In 4e there are basically three intelligent humanoid monsters at the bottom of the food chain because they are physically weaker than almost any other, but they are all very distinct. The actions, environment, and psychology are very different:

Goblins normally live above ground, normally among larger creatures. They are cowardly, conniving, and work for those stronger than they are for protection from others stronger than they are. They retreat if overwhelmed.
Gnomes normally live in Faerie/the Feywild, again above ground. Gnomes are small, illusion-happy, and will use stealth - and fight for just long enough to allow everyone to retreat safely before they set up camp somewhere else. They are smart tricksters who try to keep themselves alive.
Kobolds normally live underground. This means there is nowhere to retreat to much of the time. Kobolds don't want to die. But despite being small, weak, and slippery (and really good at swarming PCs) they fight like people in death ground. They won't make it easy and try to surrender the way Goblins do. They won't simply buy time to evacuate the way Gnomes do - there's nowhere to evacuate to. They won't throw their lives away. But there's an underlying nobility to them, reflected in and by their links to dragons. Yes, they are small, weak, and underhanded. But they don't give up - and they have to be underhanded when they are smaller than halflings and live in worse territory.

Three groups of small and tricksy monsters. Three very different approaches to almost everything. Far far more interesting than "Kobolds are dog-men who yap but otherwise behave like goblins" and "gnomes are kinda-like dwarves other than being able to speak to animals".

bunnielab posted:

Here is an other old guy question; how is the Dragonlance setting viewed today? As a kid we dismissed it as "girl crap" but I kinda remember likening some,of the novels? Especially one that that had some lusty female dwarf merchant as a main character?

It's the first D&D adventure path for good and ill both. It's not a particularly good one, but the mode of play it suggested is fairly dominant over Pathfinder.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 04:01

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# ? May 23, 2024 16:28

Thomamelas: Mar 11, 2009

Evil Mastermind posted:

I was reading a PF book at the Barnes & Noble today with the intent of giving my friend's game a chance.

I happened to see that a gunslinger apparently can't do stuff like shoot off a lock or a small inanimate object until they're level 3 and have their metacurrency available.

What.

Little yippy dog people.

Fantasy gaming has a weird relationship with firearms. Like there seems to be an underlying assumption that the tech jump from wheellock to machine gun is a tiny one. Thus guns must be saddled with bizarre rulesets.

# ? Mar 15, 2015 04:03

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