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NTRabbit posted:The blatantly obvious missing ship and tier 9 candidate is the Yorktown class, but whether that's what actually happens or not is anyone's guess. Pretty sure those guns are secondaries, I recall forgetting about them and nearly losing a badly damaged cruiser in embarrassing circumstances in the beta weekend Eh, with the torpedo plane spam, it get's really dicey driving BBs around some parts of the map. Also, if you round the corner and there are two DDs, you're hosed. Also I just want to unlock the Kongo. But really, that DD didn't get the drop if it's tubes weren't loaded that was just poor driving.
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Mar 15, 2015 13:12
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| # ? May 9, 2024 23:27 |
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Japanese Destroyers are the way to go against battleships. Their torps are a lot better and the guns are worthless so just be bold and be patient. I've had no problem sinking battleships and getting 2.5kxp games with my isokaze.
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Mar 15, 2015 13:12
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Cruisers like having friends. If you need to deal with a battleship, find someone else to help: DD- pop in and out of the smoke, and screen for the DD so that they can get their torpedoes off CA- attack from different angles, and hatch the BB in with your torpedoes and guns BB- kill faster, and protect your BB from aircraft if needed CV- harass the BB while torps wear him down, then go in for the kill when it's crippled.
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Mar 15, 2015 13:16
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TCD posted:Also I just want to unlock the Kongo. But really, that DD didn't get the drop if it's tubes weren't loaded that was just poor driving. His tubes were loaded, he was hit twice while pulling around to aim and a third time just after firing. Secondary batteries. The closed beta forums tell me they changed damage models between the beta weekends and close beta, and the difference is enormous. Battleships desperately need a nerf that makes them less effective against destroyers and cruisers, without making them less effective against torpedo bombers. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 15, 2015 13:19
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From my sky god view of battles, secondary armaments rarely seem to hit anything unless it's really close and stays around for awhile - useful for finishing off nearly crippled enemies but not much beyond that. If a destroyer is *that close* 9 times out of 10 it's gonna murder the Battleship in short order. Lower tier cruisers can feel a little so-so when half the targets in a game end up being battleships and the rest are destroyers (and cruisers) who both seem to be able to trounce you quite well (at least japanese destroyers can be fiendishly hard to hit "even" in a cruiser) while you can't do much against planes except maneuver like crazy and hope they miss. Cruisers seem to get it a little easier once they get up in tier and starts mounting torpedoes and an assload of AA to hold off planes, while also becoming quite fast and nimble - I certainly don't bother with full health cruisers unless nothing else is around in my Saipan. Battleships are supposed to be the "soft" counter to cruisers, and they certainly seem to have the hardest time dealing with Battleships (on their own). Everyone and their daddy mounting AA guns up-tier really starts to become a pain for my carrier, because every run I'm losing planes and unlike everyone else you can't repair that loss of attacking power. Not uncommon to be out entirely (or have like, 1-2 left) of certain planes. Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 15, 2015 13:25
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Is it possible to manually fire the deck guns or anything? And how do you lock the guns in a specific direction (apart from holding right-click)?
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Mar 15, 2015 13:27
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PirateBob posted:Is it possible to manually fire the deck guns or anything? I can't recall it exactly, you'll have to hit F1 when its back up, but you can lock the guns pointing at a specific point on the water so they turn to point at it at all times, and you can lock them so that they always point in the same direction relative to your ship. If by deck guns you mean secondary batteries no, they fire automatically. Or don't, because you can turn them off to improve stealth by pressing p
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Mar 15, 2015 13:30
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NTRabbit posted:His tubes were loaded, he was hit twice while pulling around to aim and a third time just after firing. The kongo's secondarys have a range of 4KM. As a cruiser, you totally hosed up if your that close to a BB and hope to make it out. That's totally the wrong game play to nerf a BB so that a cruiser can go toe to toe with it.
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Mar 15, 2015 13:36
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TCD posted:The kongo's secondarys have a range of 4KM. As a cruiser, you totally hosed up if your that close to a BB and hope to make it out. That's totally the wrong game play to nerf a BB so that a cruiser can go toe to toe with it. You're getting confused, it was a destroyer that close, not a cruiser, presumably with short range torpedoes. It's the main batteries on battleships that annihilate cruisers incredibly fast, and at much longer ranges. My Myogi is already death incarnate to any destroyer or cruiser within 15km and only ever concerned with other battleships and torpedo bombers, I can't wait to get a Kongo. vv That's a small enough difference that it can be eaten by lag NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 15, 2015 13:44
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NTRabbit posted:It was a destroyer that close, not a cruiser, presumably with short range torpedoes. American destroyers can still be slightly out of range of most BB secondaries to fire their torps.
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Mar 15, 2015 13:46
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NTRabbit posted:You're getting confused, it was a destroyer that close, not a cruiser, presumably with short range torpedoes. Well, that is the point of a BB...
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Mar 15, 2015 13:50
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TCD posted:Well, that is the point of a BB... In single salvos? Really not a lot of fun for the smaller ship drivers, which is why people on the beta forums are saying high tier battles are more or less all battleships with a couple carriers and one or two of the others. I'll see for myself once I get a Fuso or something else that high, as it is I'm tier 4 across the board bar Japanese destroyers.
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Mar 15, 2015 13:54
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Panzeh posted:American destroyers can still be slightly out of range of most BB secondaries to fire their torps. If the BB is running the secondary modernization and the Advanced Firing Training skill this only works at T8-10.
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Mar 15, 2015 13:56
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NTRabbit posted:In single salvos? Really not a lot of fun for the smaller ship drivers, which is why people on the beta forums are saying high tier battles are more or less all battleships with a couple carriers and one or two of the others. I'll see for myself once I get a Fuso or something else that high, as it is I'm tier 4 across the board bar Japanese destroyers. Yeah, the cruisers should be flak batteries to help keep torp planes off the BB as well as using it's guns to help kill incoming DDs. They don't have the armor or the salvo weight to really kill BBs unless they grouped and attack in mass. If played as a support vessel, they do well. If you're trying to lone wolf it and lead attacks against BBs, well, that's not going to end well and the game shouldn't be balanced around that gameplay either.
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Mar 15, 2015 14:05
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Being mostly a DD player so far, and liking the US DD's over the japs, Battleship secondaries do hurt, alot, when they hit. I have had situations where I have been utterly destroyed in seconds because of some lucky secondary hits. Hell even CV secondaries are no laughing manner.
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Mar 15, 2015 14:06
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DDs really ought to have the current gunnery of US destroyers and the torpedo range and detectability of Japanese destroyers as the baseline. Then give to US boats better guns and Japanese better torpedoes. I had a... Isokaze I think? chasing my Kongo before. She was 5ish kilometers away and all other enemy ships were in the other direction so I just put my butt to her and ignored her while sailing towards the action. What was she gonna do, peck me to death? Close in at 4 kn/h and torp me some time next week?
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Mar 15, 2015 14:14
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I seem to have lost my knack for long-range battleship sniping. Now I straddle targets instead of actually hitting them. It might be more historically accurate, but it's not as fun! Did they stealth nerf BB gun accuracy or am I just a big loser nerd?
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Mar 15, 2015 14:16
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Prav posted:DDs really ought to have the current gunnery of US destroyers and the torpedo range and detectability of Japanese destroyers as the baseline. Then give to US boats better guns and Japanese better torpedoes. This is kinda why I like US DD's, The guns can do something, it murders other DD's, and if you ignore it, those lucky few 1k+ crit damage really mounts up when the guns fire every 3-4 seconds
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Mar 15, 2015 14:18
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TCD posted:Yeah, the cruisers should be flak batteries to help keep torp planes off the BB as well as using it's guns to help kill incoming DDs. They don't have the armor or the salvo weight to really kill BBs unless they grouped and attack in mass. If played as a support vessel, they do well. If you're trying to lone wolf it and lead attacks against BBs, well, that's not going to end well and the game shouldn't be balanced around that gameplay either. Who needs cruisers to be flak batteries when high tier battleships and carriers already have such powerful flak? They're not needed there, they can't fight battleships solo or in groups, all they can do is fight other cruisers and destroyers - and if nobody else is driving destroyers or cruisers because they're so woefully underpowered compared to battleships, what else is there to do but take a battleship or a carrier? Battleships just have way, way too much going for them.
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Mar 15, 2015 14:25
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That's weird, here's my experience with cruisers so far: they own a lot at pretty much everything.
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Mar 15, 2015 14:37
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Man, I got like zero idea about how the Soviet/Russian line is going to play / stand out compared to its peers. Their ww1-mid war stuff always looked very weird to me and I'm guessing there's gonna be a ton of paper projects to fill out the higher end (even if some of those paper projects were actually laid down if not finished). Any Russian navy experts?
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Mar 15, 2015 14:44
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hopterque posted:That's weird, here's my experience with cruisers so far: they own a lot at pretty much everything. My experience is that once you get past tier 3 battleships are the best at doing everything except fire torpedoes and shoot down planes, and that's only because they don't have any torpedoes, or any AA guns yet Pimpmust posted:Any Russian navy experts? Not an expert, but even taking the white Russian fleet into account the Soviets don't remotely have enough ships to fill a tree without a healthy dose of fantasy. Between the end of the revolution and the end of world war 2 the Soviet Navy might as well not have existed, and even the ships they did have were often ex-something else bought second hand from somewhere else. A handful of modern destroyers and cruisers is about it, and all of them around tier 5-7 in strength at best.
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Mar 15, 2015 15:07
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Destroyers are pretty bad in the game's current state. The problem is that torpedoes are visible from 40% of their maximum range, so a battleship that pays attention has time to avoid them unless they were launched at really short range. Hitting a competent battleship with torpedoes at over about 5 km is next to impossible. The change also makes long lances kind of poo poo at closer ranges, since they show up immediately when launched. In alpha and beta weekends hitting a competent battleship with torpedoes was a bit of a trick, but it was entirely possible to get hits without coming in spotting range. The destroyer lines were distinct between nations, but both nations had usable guns, usable torpedoes and enough camouflage to not explode immediately. To look at it another way, a battleship is substantially better at killing battleships than a destroyer is. The damage model changes also turbo hosed cruisers. Battleships are essentially a hard counter to cruisers now. In the old version you could sink a Fuso with a Cleveland given good shooting and some time, in this version I shot a Fuso with my Cleveland for four minutes and didn't even take off half its health (despite hitting consistently) before it turned its guns around and oneshotted me.
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Mar 15, 2015 15:10
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Battleships are really really great for slugging it out with a target but once you introduce more, faster moving, more maneuverable targets, it's pretty easy to cut a BB down, with the long reloads and slow turret traversal. I mean I'm only in t5 stuff, but hunting battleships in cruisers is a lot of fun, especially if you're mixed in with some battleships of your own, since they'll draw the big guns while you just pump out salvos of fire or flank and get in torpedo range/behind their turrets.
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Mar 15, 2015 15:13
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Most ships sink in a 1vmany situation, yeah. The question is what happens when you have a half-dozen BBs against a mixed fleet (it ain't pretty).
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Mar 15, 2015 15:17
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In my experience, the battleships get wrecked? Battleships are really good, but they're really sluggish and predictable. I got the Kongo and it owns a lot but playing it just isn't really very fun to me, so I've been sticking mostly with cruisers for now, which are very fun. Like yeah, occasionally a BB will just reach out and smite me and there isn't really poo poo I can do, but on the other hand sometimes I'll get bracketed by torpedo bombers controlled by a good carrier player in my battleship and I'm just as hosed there.
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Mar 15, 2015 15:23
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6 battleships versus 3 battleships, 2 cruisers an a destroyer turns into 6 battleships versus 3 battleships before the other three ships ever reach firing range
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Mar 15, 2015 15:35
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Yeah I had a game in my Kongo where a Cleveland got a drop on me from behind an island. I got some decent hits on him, but he just tore me to loving bits with his fast firing batteries while I was struggling to turn fast enough. I think I got like half of his health, while he gunned me down to like 10 or 15% before loving off. And he didn't even use torpedoes. Also, I have a  PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: Do not bother trying to argue with NTRabbit. It's not worth it.
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Mar 15, 2015 15:51
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NTRabbit posted:6 battleships versus 3 battleships, 2 cruisers an a destroyer turns into 6 battleships versus 3 battleships before the other three ships ever reach firing range Only because the DD and CL engage the Battleships head on. If the cruiser and DD wait for their Battleships to engage first then they have a chance.
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Mar 15, 2015 15:51
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axelord posted:Only because the DD and CL engage the Battleships head on. If the cruiser and DD wait for their Battleships to engage first then they have a chance. No, they really don't. If they hang behind the friendly battleships they're doing nothing while on the losing side of a 6v3 outside of their own range, if they advance inside gun range the enemy battleships switch targets and kill them all in about a minute and a half.
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Mar 15, 2015 15:55
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Nordick posted:Yeah I had a game in my Kongo where a Cleveland got a drop on me from behind an island. I got some decent hits on him, but he just tore me to loving bits with his fast firing batteries while I was struggling to turn fast enough. I think I got like half of his health, while he gunned me down to like 10 or 15% before loving off. And he didn't even use torpedoes. Clevelands don't get torpedoes (and are tier for tier the best CA in-game) so yeah. A +1 tier CA under excellent conditions still didn't actually finish you off, took half his health in return and had to gently caress off.
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Mar 15, 2015 16:15
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NTRabbit posted:The US has enough battleship classes to make two full lines of constructed warships, I count 17 classes reaching as far back as the St. Louis cruiser was built. Add to that the Alaskas, the unbuilt Montana and the 1920 South Dakota and you've got enough for two full trees plus a couple premiums, just missing something to go with the Montana at tier X Early in the game's development they claimed that the Iowa would be the Montana's stablemate, being the fastest battleship in the game. No idea if that's still the plan.
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Mar 15, 2015 16:20
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He didn't have to gently caress off, he could've finished me off easily. it's just that an island came between us and I guess he got distracted or something. And I don't think soloing a full health BB in exchange for half a cruiser is that bad a trade.  And my point wasn't that CAs can go toe to toe with BBs easily, just that they aren't that completely helpless against them.
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Mar 15, 2015 16:21
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The game put my tier 6 carrier up against another tier 8 carrier, but this time I had a fellow tier 6 at my side. Our combined planes teamed up and got absolutely wrecked by the enemy carrier and his counter attack sank my teammate. Then his AA chewed up my last bombers and I was left with a clumsy battering ram until the enemy team had dominated all the capture points. gently caress this poo poo. 
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Mar 15, 2015 16:30
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Vengarr posted:wehraboos are on the whole more annoying I think, but the poi is terrible right now. They're not going away any time soon considering it is one of the most popular online games in Japan right now and there is a very devoted fan following. Basically what I'm saying is that you're gonna get a lot of mileage out of any war crime jokes you can think of.
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Mar 15, 2015 16:35
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There no way of currently getting access to this is there?
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Mar 15, 2015 16:42
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Tindahbawx posted:There no way of currently getting access to this is there? You can still apply for the US beta, but there's a wait time.
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Mar 15, 2015 16:50
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I really can't think dd's are that underpowered against battleships seeing as I just saw a tier 5 destroyer drive into a group of 2 Kongos and a Nagato in open water, torp the Nagato, drive back into his smoke, finish off the Nagato and leave.
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Mar 15, 2015 16:55
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How seriously does WG ban players for making real life threats? Because this pubbie raged his way into one:  He continued post match, threatening to "hunt me down." Also, I think cruisers do work best when paired with another ship. I can either maneuver to avoid fire well or lay fire down well, but not both at the same time. When it's another cruiser, I don't mind taking some hits, but BB guns? No, thanks. DonkeyHotay posted:I really can't think dd's are that underpowered against battleships seeing as I just saw a tier 5 destroyer drive into a group of 2 Kongos and a Nagato in open water, torp the Nagato, drive back into his smoke, finish off the Nagato and leave. Was it a Japanese or American destroyer?
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Mar 15, 2015 17:05
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Prav posted:Clevelands don't get torpedoes (and are tier for tier the best CA in-game) so yeah. A +1 tier CA under excellent conditions still didn't actually finish you off, took half his health in return and had to gently caress off. The way I see it CAs are defensive ships. You protect your BBs from aircraft and sneaky DDs until the enemy ships have been whittled down to a point where you can strike unaware targets. It always surprises me when a CA pushes forward and runs right into the guns of a battleship. What did they think would happen? Generally I find I die when I'm not thinking far enough ahead. What makes this game neat is that you need to be thinking on a much larger time scale than most arena games. When I'm driving a BB I'm thinking 5 minutes ahead and constantly reevaluating where that leaves me based on the minimap. When it takes drat near 60 second to rotate all your guns, you really do need to be planning your moves out in advance. Don't get tunnel vision, don't get greedy. Stick with your other BBs, because even if they're dumb pubs, 3 BBs can survive a lot and kill a lot. Just let them be the first to draw fire and have your exit strategy planned in advance.
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Mar 15, 2015 17:07
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