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Mat_Drinks posted:I thought I was already clear about that? I'll choose to ignore your selfquote and instead interpret that your point was we should all be driving NC Miatas, STI's etc. 
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Mar 15, 2015 22:30
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. Not that I think you need to provide a wall of text to explain every opinion.
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HEY VAPER posted:I'll choose to ignore your selfquote and instead interpret that your point was we should all be driving NC Miatas, STI's etc. Done   The sightlines on this car with the top down are on the order of when I used to DD a motorcycle. I *love* this stupid useless car. It's right up there with the best/worst modern cars with regards to driving a moving pillbox with the top up.
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Mar 15, 2015 22:35
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HEY VAPER posted:I'll choose to ignore your selfquote and instead interpret that your point was we should all be driving NC Miatas, STI's etc. Hahaha, well yeah. Or Ford Fiestas, but you said you won't buy a Ford  All I'm saying is that you can look at any decade and sure, there is plenty of poo poo, but there are also plenty of fun/good cars across the spectrum on both the enthusiast and practical ends.
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Mar 15, 2015 22:43
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I really like where Ford is going lately and if the reliability and build quality is actually good I can totally see myself owning one oneday. For example a the GT350 seems like a nice sports car to have.
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Mar 15, 2015 23:03
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Taco Box posted:Done I'm constantly tempted to buy __insert_generation__ Miata and a Miata is the last thing I need in my life. I guess I eventually want to retire my e30 to weekend duty because I want to own it until the day you can't buy petrol, but I really ought to look at more practical cars. Like maybe a 928 or an AW11 or something. You know, practical daily drivers. Yeah I'm not very good at this. Kraftwerk posted:I really like where Ford is going lately and if the reliability and build quality is actually good I can totally see myself owning one oneday. For example a the GT350 seems like a nice sports car to have. I worked at a pizza place for like two weeks between real jobs and in that time talked a customer into taking me on a joyride in his Boss 302, if the GT350 is even a slight improvement it will be absolutely bonkers fun.
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Mar 15, 2015 23:25
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HEY VAPER posted:I'm constantly tempted to buy __insert_generation__ Miata and a Miata is the last thing I need in my life. I guess I eventually want to retire my e30 to weekend duty because I want to own it until the day you can't buy petrol, but I really ought to look at more practical cars. Like maybe a 928 or an AW11 or something. You know, practical daily drivers. Yeah I'm not very good at this. To be honest, I wish I had this as a fun car with something stupid and boring as a daily like a focus 5mt or a mazda 5. But alas, this will have to do. Heart of hearts, I'd love an e92 m3. What a loving machine.
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Mar 15, 2015 23:27
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You can knock on looks all you want...but modern cars are pretty awesome in terms of performance. You've got family cars these days capable of near 300hp (more with the hemi Chryslers), drag coefficients under 0.30, and pulling a 0.90g on a skid pad. Those were sports car numbers not too long ago. Hell, under 7sec 0-60 used to be reserved for sports cars and was something impressive, now that's the target 4cyl family car number.
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Mar 16, 2015 03:52
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Git Mah Belt Son posted:You can knock on looks all you want...but modern cars are pretty awesome in terms of performance. You've got family cars these days capable of near 300hp (more with the hemi Chryslers), drag coefficients under 0.30, and pulling a 0.90g on a skid pad. Those were sports car numbers not too long ago. Anyone that doesn't think we aren't in the golden age of automobiles right now is just being an old fuddy duddy. Cars have never been better.
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Mar 16, 2015 03:56
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HEY VAPER posted:I'm constantly tempted to buy __insert_generation__ Miata and a Miata is the last thing I need in my life. I guess I eventually want to retire my e30 to weekend duty because I want to own it until the day you can't buy petrol, but I really ought to look at more practical cars. Like maybe a 928 or an AW11 or something. You know, practical daily drivers. Yeah I'm not very good at this. If you love classic German, yeah never sell you e30. I'm in a similar boat and I don't know that I could ever sell my 2002. That said, Miatas can be had for so cheap that it doesn't make sense not to own one at some point. I had a 94 with a bit of a rough body that I picked up for $1k a few years back and it was such a hoot for how cheap it was. You can absolutely find faster/better/cheaper, but it's hard to find the same amount of cheap fun. A 928 though, you're a masochist if you get one of those (though they are beautiful). I worry that all of the affordable AW11s are swiss cheese 
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Mar 16, 2015 04:07
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KakerMix posted:Anyone that doesn't think we aren't in the golden age of automobiles right now is just being an old fuddy duddy. Cars have never been better. But PLASTIC PLASTIC PLASTIC NON-REPAIRABLE COMPONENTS EMISSIONS CONTROLS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS FUEL INJECTION 
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Mar 16, 2015 04:30
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Mat_Drinks posted:If you love classic German, yeah never sell you e30. I'm in a similar boat and I don't know that I could ever sell my 2002. I wish I got into a 2002 before they became like $15k and up for good examples. Another bucket list car of mine, but that ship's probably sailed because they'll probably be astronomically expensive and rare by the time I can justify spending that much on a 1970's coupe. Right now I'm at a place where I could reasonably get away with daily driving a Miata, so why the hell not? I have a personal goal of hitting 500k miles on the motor + chassis of the e30 and I could see a lot going wrong with that plan if its my only car + daily driver. Really should be buying a cheap small 4cyl pickup or a new f150, but I don't want to do construction my whole life and buying a work truck would be a bit of a commitment to that. Not that I really have any other options to make anywhere close to as much money, but hey a man can dream right? I actually saw two AW11's parked next to each other at a movie theater earlier today that appeared to be rust free. Occasionally I'll see rust free runners with minor issues go as low as 2-3k here. Be jealous. Oh also here's a counterpoint to the people posting that all non-m car BMW's are boring commuter cars. Please I dare someone to tell me this isn't sexy as hell. Yes I know it's technically not a BMW. 
HEY VAPER fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 04:34
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HEY VAPER posted:I wish I got into a 2002 before they became like $15k and up for good examples. Another bucket list car of mine, but that ship's probably sailed because they'll probably be astronomically expensive and rare by the time I can justify spending that much on a 1970's coupe. Right now I'm at a place where I could reasonably get away with daily driving a Miata, so why the hell not? I have a personal goal of hitting 500k miles on the motor + chassis of the e30 and I could see a lot going wrong with that plan if its my only car + daily driver. Yeah, that's one of my biggest egrets is that I was just born too late for reasonable BMW 2002 ownership, although they've only really gone bonkers lately. I remember... not wretched examples being like three or four grand when I started looking, and now it's like ten grand for one that isn't a rotten hunk of poo poo.
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Mar 16, 2015 04:51
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The more I read this thread, the more I think that we don't really like cars that much.
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Mar 16, 2015 05:36
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Wonderllama posted:The more I read this thread, the more I think that we don't really like cars that much. We love them, we're just waiting for them to build us our RWD, 300hp, 2000lb $15,000 wagon/coupe with manual windows and bluetooth.
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Mar 16, 2015 05:52
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I love cars....... When they're sleeping.
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Mar 16, 2015 06:22
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Powershift posted:We love them, we're just waiting for them to build us our RWD, 300hp, 2000lb $15,000 wagon/coupe with manual windows and bluetooth. Don't forget a manual and a diesel that revs to 9K.
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Mar 16, 2015 06:24
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Bovril Delight posted:Don't forget a manual and a diesel that revs to 9K. Made by that one specific company i like even though multiple other companies make the exact product i desire and they sell like poo poo. But i don't like that company because my uncles cousin's ex-roomate twice removed had one and it broke.
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Mar 16, 2015 06:30
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HEY VAPER posted:I wish I got into a 2002 before they became like $15k and up for good examples. Another bucket list car of mine, but that ship's probably sailed because they'll probably be astronomically expensive and rare by the time I can justify spending that much on a 1970's coupe. Sinestro posted:Yeah, that's one of my biggest egrets is that I was just born too late for reasonable BMW 2002 ownership, although they've only really gone bonkers lately. I remember... not wretched examples being like three or four grand when I started looking, and now it's like ten grand for one that isn't a rotten hunk of poo poo. I'd like to pretend I was smart and thought it might happen when I bought mine a couple years ago, but beyond knowing the value in the upgrades mine had I didn't think they'd go up so much because of how many of them BMW made. I still that it might just be a bit of a price bubble.
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Mar 16, 2015 06:52
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MrChips posted:But PLASTIC PLASTIC PLASTIC NON-REPAIRABLE COMPONENTS EMISSIONS CONTROLS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS FUEL INJECTION BLOCKY CARS AND MANUAL WINDOWS AUTOMATIC TRANNYS SUCK GIVE ME 5 SPEED MANUALS BACK
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Mar 16, 2015 07:01
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Bovril Delight posted:Don't forget a manual and a diesel that revs to 9K. Also a full leather interior with bench seats.
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Mar 16, 2015 07:06
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razorscooter posted:Also a full leather interior with bench seats. Room for 3 in the front but it can't be any bigger than a miata and it can't have airbags
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Mar 16, 2015 07:16
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HEY VAPER posted:Room for 3 in the front but it can't be any bigger than a miata and it can't have airbags Also brown in color
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Mar 16, 2015 07:37
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The AI perfect car is a turbo 5-rotor that runs on diesel and is a 6 speed manual AWD shooting brake with no power steering.
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Mar 16, 2015 08:03
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Laserface posted:The AI perfect car is a turbo 5-rotor that runs on diesel and is a 6 speed manual AWD shooting brake with no power steering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2IFWveYBRs this but diesel somehow because goons
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Mar 16, 2015 10:02
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HEY VAPER posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2IFWveYBRs you would think with modern compacted graphite iron, and multi-pulse direct injection, a diesel rotary would be possible. I would bet a diesel rotary could have power well into the 100s. maybe even triple digit torque.
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Mar 16, 2015 10:15
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Powershift posted:you would think with modern compacted graphite iron, and multi-pulse direct injection, a diesel rotary would be possible. Just imagine the exhaust note!!
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Mar 16, 2015 14:11
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Taco Box posted:Just look how wrong you are, just loving look A woman that lives a couple doors down owns basically this but with the loving awesome blood red leather interior. I lust over that car pretty much daily.
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Mar 16, 2015 14:33
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Mat_Drinks posted:If you love classic German, yeah never sell you e30. I'm in a similar boat and I don't know that I could ever sell my 2002. I'm kicking myself for not buying BlackMK4s 318is that was for sale a little while ago. Owning the Miata has taught me how much I love high revving slowfast cars that you can drive at 8/10s around town. I'm still looking for a cheap hard top car that can do this in the rain (that's not just a Miata with a hard top). Mat_Drinks posted:it might just be a bit of a price bubble. I wonder about this sometimes - are there true price bubbles for older cars? I look at 2002s and E30s and old 911s and whatnot go up to ludicrous money and unfortunately can't imagine them ever coming down. Do we know of anytime when this has happened? sirbeefalot posted:A woman that lives a couple doors down owns basically this but with the loving awesome blood red leather interior. I lust over that car pretty much daily. Everyone here hates silver cars but silver/grey with red interior is my favorite combo after blue with gray or white interior (think E36 M3). blk fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 14:36
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I think that the sheer performance of even the base model cars makes it more difficult to offer higher performance variants than it was in the past. For one, drivers looking for a specific level of performance can hit that performance point with an appliance packing a V6 engine. A V6 Camry may not be inspiring but if straight line acceleration is your goal, everything much faster gets a lot less livable for the price. Cornering isn't nearly as good comparatively speaking, but bad skidpad or slalom numbers on a modern car are still respectable compared to older cars. What's more, those appliances are putting down such numbers using the "wrong" technology. The Camry is FWD and uses a V6 instead of an I6 engine driving the rear wheels. Making a car that does things "right" makes for a much faster but less livable car which helps compete with the niche looking for more performance at the cost of everyone else. However those niche cars are still coming out, just when a manufacturer thinks they can justify the development effort. On the bright side, consider that the GT86 is faster than anything that Toyota built in the 1980s while being cheaper than the AE86. Finally there's also an upper performance limit that different manufacturers may be more or less comfortable offering. Enthusiast media really encourages a macho attitude towards cars where acknowledging personal limits is a sign of weakness. Saying that the Hellcats are dangerously overpowered is some sort of heresy even when it's impossible to come up with some situation where it's remotely safe to use all 700+ horsepower on a public roadway. Even on a track, I'll freely admit that I don't think I could safely use all of its power. The only reason that Dodge is offering that sort of power is that they reasonably don't expect anybody to actually use it more than a couple of sprints on an empty highway and some burnouts. If everyone on Jalopnik actually tried to push the cars to their limits, the site would shut down due to all the readers being dead by the first turn. So there's a disconnect. Marketing departments want to cash in on that attitude and push it in directions that make more sales, like BMW and the naturally aspirated I6 engine. At the end of the day it's a lot of compromises just to avoid balance shafts and the engineers move on while the blogs and magazines don't. They make better cars for people looking for performance yet worse cars for people looking for specific technology or characteristics. We're in a golden age of automotive performance and it doesn't feel that way because the actual performance cars that stand out from the crowd are status symbols more than they're meant to be driven to the limit.
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Mar 16, 2015 15:55
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Just look at the reaction to the new V6 for the Mustang in 2011. It put out something like 5-10HP less than the previous year's V8, all while consuming a whole hell of a lot less fuel, and people were still convinced it was a piece of poo poo. People want ever-increasing performance, but don't want to change any of their pre-conceived notions.
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Mar 16, 2015 16:11
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PT6A posted:People want ever-increasing performance, but don't want to change any of their pre-conceived notions. Yeah, you have people like my dad who even if confronted with a dyno chart that puts the output of an older V8 below the output of a V6 or Turbo 4 at every point in the curve, he will still say "it won't FEEL as powerful as the V8." Nostalgia is a power drug. He isn't, however, nostalgic about so called 'reliability' of older cars. He's in his 60s right now and spent time as a mechanic in his late teens and 20s. While pulling the engine on an older car was trivially easy compared to something today, you did it far more often. Engine rebuilds were common before 50k miles assuming the frame didn't rust out from under the car before then. There was also the endless tinkering and tuning just to get the things to run properly. Today, we take it for granted that a car will just start under pretty much any condition. I'm only 35 and I can remember our old Chevy Van that needed someone sitting in the driver's seat goosing the throttle after startup on very cold days until the engine got up to temp or it would stall. Even the mid 80s Toyota corolla I had in high school (the peak of what is being talked about here as dead simple reliability) was temperamental depending on how much moisture was in the air. Today, you can feed a car oil every 6,000 miles or so and reasonably expect it to hit 100k+ miles with very little done to the powertrain. Remember, for every 80s-90s 400k Merc or Volvo you see, there's 30 of them siting in a junkyard somewhere because they became unreliable trash heaps that the owner couldn't maintain reasonably anymore. It's no secret that well maintained cars last longer. The ones you see lasting are the ones that have been meticulously maintained, you just don't see the others.
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Mar 16, 2015 16:28
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1337JiveTurkey posted:I think that the sheer performance of even the base model cars makes it more difficult to offer higher performance variants than it was in the past. For one, drivers looking for a specific level of performance can hit that performance point with an appliance packing a V6 engine. A V6 Camry may not be inspiring but if straight line acceleration is your goal, everything much faster gets a lot less livable for the price. Cornering isn't nearly as good comparatively speaking, but bad skidpad or slalom numbers on a modern car are still respectable compared to older cars. Eh I think you're a little off in that a 5 series is just as livable as a Camry, it's just way more expensive and at least some of that is due to actual reasons (vs paying for the badge) due tocost savings due to production volume along with design choices that prioritize ease of production like FWD, etc. Big volume lets you get away with stuff like a big high-tech v6 that you can sell almost at cost since the take rate is low, the engine dev and tooling costs are shared among many models, and the rest of the platform is shared with a normal appliance. Enough to throw money at engineering out all the inherent design issues with being a V6 for most use cases most of the time. Also most people aren't race car drivers looking for the absolute highest numbers, and despite not being easily quantified the "smile factor" or a car matters way more than how fast it is on the quarter mile or whatever. And that's a composite of all sorts of things from styling to steering feel to cultural factors etc. which is much harder to hit OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 18:25
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Sinestro posted:Yeah, that's one of my biggest egrets is that I was just born too late for reasonable BMW 2002 ownership, although they've only really gone bonkers lately. I remember... not wretched examples being like three or four grand when I started looking, and now it's like ten grand for one that isn't a rotten hunk of poo poo. That's still better than what us old farts that started driving in the mid-1980's had to go through when you could buy the car for $750 (mine was a 1966 BMW 1600) but there were few "foreign" shops, no interwebs, and no parts anywhere and you had to go the library and pull out telephone books from across the country and start calling places to find a "9volt resistor thingiemajob I think", yeah good times. Get off my lawn. and also...yeah BMW has gone mainstream but for many years they were among the very few manufacturers that gave a poo poo about handling and they could pretty much always outcorner everything else. Even my lovely old 1600 could carve it up better than anything else from the late 60's that I had driven (Mustangs/Camaros/Impalas/ etc.) Remember I'm old enough at 46 that the 60's and 70's cars were our High School cars and most of them drove like rear end. The 1970's and 1980's domestic cars were shitpiles with horrible steering, brakes and only a few even had decent acceleration like the corvette/gnx/whatever/mustangs. All the Japanese cars sans the Nissan Z's were really really slow and lovely (although obviously more reliable). For adult car buyers back in the 70's..........BMW was the slightly more affordable option to someone who wanted Porsche like handling in a small 4 seater. BMW were also the last ones to keep stuffing manual transmissions into large sedans....so there's that too. Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 18:26
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Keyser S0ze posted:BMW were also the last ones to keep stuffing manual transmissions into large sedans....so there's that too. I think Mercedes still does this (and manual windows, too) for markets in poor countries. I've seen, with my own eyes, a fairly modern E-series with roll-up windows and a manual transmission. It's not that they can't do it, it's just that they'll never sell more than a handful in North America.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:08
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PT6A posted:I think Mercedes still does this (and manual windows, too) for markets in poor countries. I've seen, with my own eyes, a fairly modern E-series with roll-up windows and a manual transmission. It's not that they can't do it, it's just that they'll never sell more than a handful in North America. It also messes up their luxury standing in the market, which is worth more than moving [x] number of stripper vehicles. Yes, they have moved down market but I think even the base CLAs are pretty loaded (I have not checked just from general hearsay please correct me)
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Mar 16, 2015 22:24
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HEY VAPER posted:Because they're fuckoff huge compared to earlier 3 series Unless I'm not understanding wtf you're talking about; I said the E30, not F30.
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Mar 16, 2015 22:34
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Git Mah Belt Son posted:You can knock on looks all you want...but modern cars are pretty awesome in terms of performance. You've got family cars these days capable of near 300hp (more with the hemi Chryslers), drag coefficients under 0.30, and pulling a 0.90g on a skid pad. Those were sports car numbers not too long ago. There are still some depressing cars. Take the 2015 Chevy Impala. 305hp yet only manages a 0-60 in 6.8 seconds? http://www.thecarconnection.com/overview/chevrolet_impala_2015
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Mar 16, 2015 23:05
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PT6A posted:Just look at the reaction to the new V6 for the Mustang in 2011. It put out something like 5-10HP less than the previous year's V8, all while consuming a whole hell of a lot less fuel, and people were still convinced it was a piece of poo poo. People want ever-increasing performance, but don't want to change any of their pre-conceived notions. It didn't help the stock rear end was poo poo and made it drive like a dog. You had to buy the performance package. Chevy colorado has a similar feel, like poo poo because they are trying to maximize fuel economy. Won't shift out of a locked torque converter mode.
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Mar 16, 2015 23:07
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Christobevii3 posted:There are still some depressing cars. Take the 2015 Chevy Impala. 305hp yet only manages a 0-60 in 6.8 seconds? Dude, it's a loving massive barge loaded with comfort, is cheap, and does 0-60 in 6.8 seconds! 6.8 seconds is not slow.
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Mar 16, 2015 23:15
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eyebeem posted:Dude, it's a loving massive barge loaded with comfort, is cheap, and does 0-60 in 6.8 seconds! That's my point. 6.8 seems "slow" today since every car seems to be in the 7-8sec range. For a large, heavy family car 6.8 seconds is pretty darn quick. The 2000-2005 Impala with the 3.4l was in the 10-11 second range. The "higher performance" 3.8l was around 8 seconds.
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Mar 17, 2015 02:13
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