|
Yeah just having non boss monsters unable to crit never seems to cross the minds of a lot of designers.
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2015 18:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 21:06 |
|
Kwyndig posted:Yeah just having non boss monsters unable to crit never seems to cross the minds of a lot of designers. This makes a lot of assumptions, doesn't it? I dunno, I think 4e's method is much better as a compromise between "boss + nonthreatening mooks" and its unnamed opposite
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2015 19:00
|
|
|
I like how 13th Age has monster abilities that trigger on certain die rolls, since it adds a bit of uncertainty to "boss fights" and has cool attacks trigger more often.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2015 19:05
|
|
|
You know what game thought of not having mooks crit? Fantasy Craft thought of not having mooks crit. Checkmate, D&D.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2015 19:06
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:You know what game thought of not having mooks crit? Fantasy Craft thought of not having mooks crit. The Warhams 40k RPGs also suggest that you can not have mooks crit, instead reserving it for special opponents, but then they basically call you a pansy for doing so. I'm not really sure that counts.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2015 19:08
|
|
|
LuiCypher posted:The Warhams 40k RPGs also suggest that you can not have mooks crit, instead reserving it for special opponents, but then they basically call you a pansy for doing so. Actually, the original one tells you absolutely do not have mooks crit. It's only Only War that starts calling you a pansy for it and mostly because the crits were modified to be unable to one-shot anyone anymore for that one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2015 19:18
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Actually, the original one tells you absolutely do not have mooks crit. It's only Only War that starts calling you a pansy for it and mostly because the crits were modified to be unable to one-shot anyone anymore for that one. For Only War it seems fairly appropriate to get splattered in wildly implausible ways, but all those 40K RPGs had seriously tedious character generation which goes back to the meatgrinder problems mentioned above.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2015 21:18
|
|
|
occamsnailfile posted:For Only War it seems fairly appropriate to get splattered in wildly implausible ways, but all those 40K RPGs had seriously tedious character generation which goes back to the meatgrinder problems mentioned above. Well, also, Only War starts out sorta-maybe low powered and then rockets into the stratosphere of action herodom as hard as possible, as fast as possible. Except you're still made of balsa wood.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2015 21:51
|
|
|
In our last 3.5 session one of the few rolls I managed to hit with was a 20. I did not confirm the crit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2015 21:59
|
|
|
I'm of the opinion that if you're going to present your RPG as a meatgrinder, character creation should take 10 min, tops. Your total stats should fit on an index card. Simian_Prime fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Mar 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2015 22:41
|
|
|
Simian_Prime posted:I'm of the opinion that if you're going to present your RPG as a meatgrinder, character creation should 10 min, tops. This, but for every game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2015 22:44
|
|
|
Simian_Prime posted:I'm of the opinion that if you're going to present your RPG as a meatgrinder, character creation should take 10 min, tops. This sounds like the beginning of a cool Fantasy dungeon crawling game. 10 minutes tops to make a character and everything you need can fit on a note card.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2015 23:26
|
|
|
bunnielab posted:Wait, I though Gnomes were like a dwarf/halfling sorta thing? Is my memory going or did a lot of stuff get revamped after 2nd edition? I am really going to have to ransack my parent's attic and try and find my old books. Maybe try to (poorly I am sure) run a 1st/2nd game. I should have a shitload of old modules up there. Gnomes have changed from edition to edition. There are not as far as I know any official oD&D, B/X, BECMI, or RC PC gnomes. We can, however, infer from AD&D that at least someone played a gnome somewhere near Gygax' table and the gnome class for the purpose was illusion-heavy. AD&D 1e broke the race-as-class ties. But it left Gnomes in their niche as the best non-human illusionists around (from memory the only non-humans allowed to be illusionists - and there was a significant difference between the illusionist and the wizard) AD&D 2e shot the illusionist class, making it a mere simplistic wizard specialty. And in shooting the illusionist class they took away the gnome's thing (giving it to elves of course; elves are better illusionists than gnomes in 2e). This is when gnomes were turned into dwarf/halfing sorta things - this was itself a 2e revamp. 3.0 being in many ways having less care taken with it than any other edition and having copy/pasted fluff left the gnome flailing. Now dwarves could even be wizards - about the only niche the gnome had left was as Dr. Doolittle. 3.5 did as it so often did, treated some of the 3.0 symptoms - and rather than making gnomes favoured class a wizard subtype (which shows how little the 3.0 designers cared about gnomes) they at least gave them a full favoured class ... of bard. And made them wanderers. 4E realised that gnomes had been pretty pointless since 1989 and didn't put them in the PHB. When they came out (in the PHB2) they were in a variant of the 1e role that took account of the shift from sword and sorcery to high fantasy. In short fluff for gnomes has never been consistent. And it's only been interesting in 1e and 4e. quote:I suspect that talking about old D&D might be more fun then playing it though. Depends how old. Brown/White box and Red box D&D are both fun to play (and scratch AD&D players and many of them will admit they were playing D&D with bolt-on houserules from AD&D). Quarex posted:But why do these arguments not come out to quickly shut down the "THIS IS WOW 4 BABBYS" when the Grognard diaspora appears? Because more than 90% of the people drawing links with WoW are arguing in bad faith. It was tried for a couple of years. quote:Edit: PurpleXVI, I think the pure "meatgrinder"-type campaign was falling out of favor throughout the 1980s, if my oral-history-style understanding of that era of gaming is any indication. It was falling out of favour from the late 70s... 1985 marks the start of the Dragonlance saga - which had the Obscure Death Rule (which in summary states "If any of these Super Speshul Scripted PCs dies, cheat like crazy to bring them back into the story. You are the DM"). Amd Dragonlance sold well. Simian_Prime posted:I'm of the opinion that if you're going to present your RPG as a meatgrinder, character creation should take 10 min, tops. As Error 404 said, this isn't a bad rule for non-meatgrinder games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 00:11
|
|
|
Simian_Prime posted:I'm of the opinion that if you're going to present your RPG as a meatgrinder, character creation should take 10 min, tops. I've been thinking about a dungeon crawl game where character creation is "draw a card from these three decks" (or maybe "draw 2 and discard 1 from each of these three decks"). Card 1 gives you your race/background/talents. Card 2 gives you your melee stats, physical skills, and some gear. Card 3 gives you your caster stats, mental skills, and some gear. There'd be 40 or so cards per deck with lots of variety. So you'd go "poo poo, Bob the Dwarf Fighter died... Gimme a sec. Now I'm a <draw> Elven alchemist with a talent for drinking and <draw> huge biceps and a two handed sword and <draw> a dunce cap and no spells".
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 00:35
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:I've been thinking about a dungeon crawl game where character creation is "draw a card from these three decks" (or maybe "draw 2 and discard 1 from each of these three decks"). I would kick start that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 00:37
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:I like the idea of kobolds as juvenile delinquent gangs. They're dangerous to individuals and low level PCs but if your party isn't purely in it for killing they can set them straight. "Tunnel But can a tiny lizardman have a pompadour that accounts for 50% of his body by volume? Quarex posted:Edit: PurpleXVI, I think the pure "meatgrinder"-type campaign was falling out of favor throughout the 1980s, if my oral-history-style understanding of that era of gaming is any indication. I know by the time I first played in the 1990s the games where you knew you would run through an average of a character a week were already being spoken of as the way other people's games had been in the past, and people were thanking goodness that they did not still play like that. Though of course the people that preferred that style were surely still doing it. That seems pretty right, I'm not denying that no terrible GM's ever did it, I'm just saying that the prevalence feels a bit overstated. And that probably most of the TPK's anyone ever experienced were more down to some newbie GM loving up and looking crestfallen when he realizes he just blew it, than some giggling evil GM twirling his moustache as he leads the innocent party into yet another save-or-die trap. And they only get the save if they use the ten-foot-pole to poke the ground ahead of them. AlphaDog posted:I've been thinking about a dungeon crawl game where character creation is "draw a card from these three decks" (or maybe "draw 2 and discard 1 from each of these three decks"). That sounds a lot like what the Doom boardgame did, and the Doom boardgame was a loving riot. The less players you had, the more cards they got to draw, and each card was a special ability of some sort(more damage with X weapon, can bounce grenades around corners, can shoot past obstructions, etc.), kills were used as direct "currency" to buy ammo, equipment and extra abilities between "levels."
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 00:37
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:I've been thinking about a dungeon crawl game where character creation is "draw a card from these three decks" (or maybe "draw 2 and discard 1 from each of these three decks"). That sounds like a great time actually.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 00:37
|
|
|
Sounds like one of my generators, that's what it sounds like. I'll sue.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 00:53
|
|
|
Fuego Fish posted:Sounds like one of my generators, that's what it sounds like. I'll sue.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 01:02
|
|
|
I ran a session of Dungeon Crawl Classics at my game store last week and just went to the Purple Sorcerer 0-Level Party Generator and spat out 10 sheets of 4 random 0-level characters for my players to sift through. It was super easy and fast, the players loved their sets of 4 randomly-generated saps, while still being entertained when 50% of them perished. I thought having the players not go through the process of creating the characters themselves would lower their engagement and attachment, but really all the players needed to do was name the characters and posit a few relationships between them. I highly recommend it!
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 01:04
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Well, also, Only War starts out sorta-maybe low powered and then rockets into the stratosphere of action herodom as hard as possible, as fast as possible. Except you're still made of balsa wood. This, and I love it. The thing though is with many builds you're a nearly unhittable glass rocket. poo poo, ratlings start off with a -50 penalty to even shoot them. Hell, a vet guardsman can dual a space marine as long as they have a big enough gun (which you can get for free with one of those advanced classes you get at 2500 exp, that multilaser makes almost everything as squishy as you are.) and don't fail a roll to get hit/stealth it. The second a guardsman buys the dodge skill is when he/she becomes a person. Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Mar 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 01:08
|
|
|
FactsAreUseless posted:You know you can't complete a long-term project like a lawsuit. Two books says otherwise 
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 01:16
|
|
|
Fuego Fish posted:Sounds like one of my generators, that's what it sounds like. I'll sue. For which game? If it's actually similar, I'll just buy a copy of yours instead of thinking real hard about this for a month, producing 20 pages of notes and ideas, and then never doing anything with it again. Man Dancer posted:I ran a session of Dungeon Crawl Classics at my game store last week and just went to the Purple Sorcerer 0-Level Party Generator and spat out 10 sheets of 4 random 0-level characters for my players to sift through. It was super easy and fast, the players loved their sets of 4 randomly-generated saps, while still being entertained when 50% of them perished. I thought having the players not go through the process of creating the characters themselves would lower their engagement and attachment, but really all the players needed to do was name the characters and posit a few relationships between them. I highly recommend it! When we play Basic D&D (Mentzer version) now, we just have a big pile of pregens face down on the table and when you die you take the next one, write your new name in, and show up when combat's over (or immediately if you died outside of combat). You could theoretically "win" by having taken the fewest pregens at the end of the dungeon, but you actually win just by drinking beer, talking poo poo, and not caring too much when Grythx The Very Stupid falls in a pit and dies. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Mar 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 01:25
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:I've been thinking about a dungeon crawl game where character creation is "draw a card from these three decks" (or maybe "draw 2 and discard 1 from each of these three decks"). Don't make 3 decks, make one big one and let people redraw 1 if it's a third race, and give each card a stat boost and power. Be a Warrior/Wizard/alcoholic or elf/elf/dwarf.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 01:29
|
|
|
chaos rhames posted:Don't make 3 decks, make one big one and let people redraw 1 if it's a third race, and give each card a stat boost and power. Be a Warrior/Wizard/alcoholic or elf/elf/dwarf. That's a little less serious than the tone I had in mind, but I can't see anything actually wrong with this idea either. If the goal was a silly tone, I'd want to do it so it was possible to be a double-vampire vampire-slayer.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 01:33
|
|
|
Len posted:I would kick start that. There was a kick starter for an RPG that fit in a double deck card box that contained a type of this mechanic as character generation. Damned if I can find it though. it's not out, I didn't back it, and the only part of the name I remember was the word 'dungeon' which makes it utterly impossible to search for.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 02:23
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:"Tunnel
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 02:33
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:I've been thinking about a dungeon crawl game where character creation is "draw a card from these three decks" (or maybe "draw 2 and discard 1 from each of these three decks"). The worst thing is, this isn't as far from Munchkin as anyone really wants. Although I feel I should note, this actually would be fun to play, if done right.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 02:44
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:For which game? If it's actually similar, I'll just buy a copy of yours instead of thinking real hard about this for a month, producing 20 pages of notes and ideas, and then never doing anything with it again. Not for any particular system, but vaguely D&D-leaning, it's the Backstory Generator which provides a random adventurer's backstory, including their origin point, various information on their likes/dislikes, and sometimes even manages to be kind of really good on rare occasions.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 02:48
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:That's a little less serious than the tone I had in mind, but I can't see anything actually wrong with this idea either. If the goal was a silly tone, I'd want to do it so it was possible to be a double-vampire vampire-slayer. e: Hybrid or multiclass cleric for the vampire hunting if you like. Also have you ever played Rogue Legacy (the computer game). Splicer fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Mar 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 02:56
|
|
|
Len posted:I would kick start that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 03:24
|
|
|
Splicer posted:I could have sworn that 4E let you play a vampire vampire vampire vampire, but for the life of me I cannot remember where the last vampire comes from. You can play a level 1 zombie zombie vampire vampire vampire werewolf though. I only know vampire vampire vampire. On the other hand, a Revenant (Vryloka) Vampire with Vampiric Heritage with the Avenging Haunt paragon path, the Archliche epic destiny, and the Ghost of the Path theme, is the zombified double ghost of a triple vampire lich. They're ununununununundead!
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 03:54
|
|
|
Splicer posted:I could have sworn that 4E let you play a vampire vampire vampire vampire, but for the life of me I cannot remember where the last vampire comes from. You can play a level 1 zombie zombie vampire vampire vampire werewolf though. If I remember correctly, you play a Revanant (race) who used to be a vampry (race) who is a vampire (class). Although that made you a zombie vampire vampire. Probably could add a theme in as well Edit: Beaten and got the race wrong
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 03:55
|
|
|
Last Stand has characters represented by an armor card and a selection of power cards, each of which granted an ability and a bonus to a few stats. The default character creation method is by card draft, but random draw also works (as does choosing all your cards, or choosing some and getting the rest at random). I'd like to see another game on something like that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 03:56
|
|
|
PublicOpinion posted:Last Stand has characters represented by an armor card and a selection of power cards, each of which granted an ability and a bonus to a few stats. The default character creation method is by card draft, but random draw also works (as does choosing all your cards, or choosing some and getting the rest at random). I'd like to see another game on something like that. And it's pretty amazing how much character you can see out of a semi-random collection of powers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 03:59
|
|
|
neonchameleon posted:Gnomes have changed from edition to edition. You left out the best gnomes: BECMI Gnomes were tiny goblin-looking fellows who all had the (race-as-class) ability to break the laws of physics using a "fantasy physics" skill. They used this to make giant flying cities, biplanes, and other weird and wonderful devices, and were also accomplished shamans. "Gnolls" in BECMI were the result of wizards combining Gnomes and Trolls.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 06:49
|
|
|
The retroclone I'm working on has character creation that boils down to: choose class, write down predefined stats based on class and 'tier' (one of three levels), add four points wherever you like to a max of 18, write down AC and HP, done. (Plus choose spells if you're a caster.) No weapon selection because all damage is determined by your class's Hit Die, armour is a function of class, and you're assumed to have all the standard adventuring equipment you might need. No need for money because the characters are intended to be one-shots. I'm aiming for finished in three minutes, tops. Combat's still too slow for my liking because it's locked in the old D&D method of "everyone rolls in turn, then all the monsters roll in turn..." though. Need something quicker!
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 10:37
|
|
|
Payndz posted:The retroclone I'm working on has character creation that boils down to: choose class, write down predefined stats based on class and 'tier' (one of three levels), add four points wherever you like to a max of 18, write down AC and HP, done. (Plus choose spells if you're a caster.) No weapon selection because all damage is determined by your class's Hit Die, armour is a function of class, and you're assumed to have all the standard adventuring equipment you might need. No need for money because the characters are intended to be one-shots. I'm aiming for finished in three minutes, tops. Maybe just give everyone a flat Initiative stat, have people go from highest to lowest always. Hard to make it any simpler than that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 10:42
|
|
|
Quick character creation is all well and good, but a more complex system (if it is well done) allows you to personalize your character more. I am mostly thinking about GURPS, where character creation can take a game session by itself, if you are not familiar with the system; but it also allows you to create literally any character you can think of. The pre-gen characters that you find in most RPGs include a vampire businessman, a D&D-like thief with teleporting powers and a battle robot that discovered Buddhism and they are all built with the same rules.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 12:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 21:06 |
|
|
Frankly, I'd rather have a real Overwatch RPG than rely on the GM's ability to hack one together from four Different GURPS splatbooks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2015 12:37
|
|
