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The tier 3 IJN cruiser is actually a better destroyer than the tier 3 IJN destroyer, even without the smokescreen. The tier 4 is pretty pants though, same weak guns as a destroyer but unlike the previous one has none of the agility. I'm on the long grind to the tier 6 now.
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Mar 16, 2015 07:38
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NTRabbit posted:The tier 3 IJN cruiser is actually a better destroyer than the tier 3 IJN destroyer, even without the smokescreen. The tier 4 is pretty pants though, same weak guns as a destroyer but unlike the previous one has none of the agility. I'm on the long grind to the tier 6 now. I liked the Kuma ok, it wasn't great but it wasn't terrible either.
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Mar 16, 2015 07:47
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hopterque posted:I liked the Kuma ok, it wasn't great but it wasn't terrible either. Though they're both floating fluoro paper targets in a battleship game, the Phoenix seems to be better at tier.
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Mar 16, 2015 07:55
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Upgraded Kuma looks really cool, though.
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Mar 16, 2015 09:24
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When playing tier 3 cruisers, what are you supposed to do about torpedo bombers that drop torpedo right next to you. Is there an AA button or something.
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Mar 16, 2015 09:41
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The jump from 'heavy destroyers' to heavy cruisers in the IJN cruiser line is a little daunting at first, Your now the size of some battleships, you have a lot of meaty guns, and torps that will only fire as your facing away from your target ^Tier 3 cruisers are normally ww1 ships, when the thought that planes could threaten a warship was laughable, Your not going to get any proper AA till around Tier 5
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Mar 16, 2015 09:46
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Zettace posted:When playing tier 3 cruisers, what are you supposed to do about torpedo bombers that drop torpedo right next to you. Is there an AA button or something. Keep your bow pointed at the torpedo bombers at all times. If I can do it in a battleship, you can do it in a T3 cruiser. But if you didn't see the TBs coming then... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U7rOUSvYM8
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Mar 16, 2015 09:55
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Stevefin posted:^Tier 3 cruisers are normally ww1 ships, when the thought that planes could threaten a warship was laughable, Your not going to get any proper AA till around Tier 5 Which is why all the hull and gun upgrades are historically accurate too, matching desperate early war attempts to bolster AA defence by ripping off ineffective WW1 and interbellum AA guns and even main gun turrets to replace them with as many 20mm Oerlikons and 40mm Bofors as could fit without causing the ship to capsize, and in the USN at least rapidly pressed into service the 5"/38 dual purpose gun. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 10:03
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130 k in torp damage and 8k in bombs and it's a draw, thanks to some shitlords. 
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Mar 16, 2015 10:05
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That's really cool, thanks a bunch.
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Mar 16, 2015 10:27
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I'm feeling the itch to jump on this. Are you guys gonna scream ITT if the signups are opening again? For EU. Ie, I have a decent chance to get in if I keep on top of this thread.
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Mar 16, 2015 11:53
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Daktari posted:I'm feeling the itch to jump on this. I was platooned with you when you last ragequit tanks. How is your blood pressure these days?
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Mar 16, 2015 12:16
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I'm digging the "flow," of the game as ships have to move to keep alive. Granted, I'm just be-bopping in the Tier 1-3 range still, but I hope that sort of thing doesn't change too much the higher up I go.
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Mar 16, 2015 12:20
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So aside from the Kongo, what are some other ships people think are worth keeping? I'm pretty ambivalent about the St. Louis, and six slots with no piasters is pretty limiting. I'm assuming that for CVs, just keep on going up, and for CLs, the cleveland is worth keeping around.
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Mar 16, 2015 12:24
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CVs need some rebalancing or a MM fix to be playable anyway, every other game I come up against a CV a tier higher than me and I might as well torp myself to get out of the game. Losing a full fighter squadron in a 1on1 fight while killing a single enemy plane is just not fun. Also I suck with DDs 
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Mar 16, 2015 12:50
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Tahirovic posted:
Think of DDs like this: In the first half of the game, you just kill other DDs. Once they're thinned out, you look for targets of opportunity and jump them while they're occupied or go hunt down a carrier. Like everything you need to be constantly re-evaluating where you're going and what your next move is based on the minimap but with DDs I've found that you need to change plans constantly because you're so god drat fragile and can't afford to take any hits. That said, DD hunting in american DDs is great. Other DDs get so torpedo-focused they don't expect you to waste them in 2-3 volleys of your guns.
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Mar 16, 2015 13:04
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plehsistential posted:So aside from the Kongo, what are some other ships people think are worth keeping? I'm pretty ambivalent about the St. Louis, and six slots with no piasters is pretty limiting. I'm assuming that for CVs, just keep on going up, and for CLs, the cleveland is worth keeping around. Fuso was pretty sweet last I played it, but honestly play what you want.
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Mar 16, 2015 13:17
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plehsistential posted:So aside from the Kongo, what are some other ships people think are worth keeping? I'm pretty ambivalent about the St. Louis, and six slots with no piasters is pretty limiting. I'm assuming that for CVs, just keep on going up, and for CLs, the cleveland is worth keeping around. I enjoy the Cleveland and Kongo but the Cleveland steamer wins out since I can pound out more fire which is the main goal anyways. It's not good at long ranges but has noteworthy AA and is responsive. I played through the Pensacola and Amagi through Alpha and the latter was the most memorable of the two although most people prefer the Pensacola because it has better accuracy. Quick torpedo chat I was playing on Saturday night for while with someone who is very effective with them and he suggested his method of firing your first and second waves staggered with a slight variation. If you can bait your target into maneuvering with the first wave you can likely unload the second and score hits. Also you can try leading your target with the first wave into the direction you want diverting their attention from whatever target they might be trying to focus down.
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Mar 16, 2015 13:21
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xthetenth posted:Pubbies shooting torpedoes at my battleship is kind of endearing, they're really not good at it. Turns out there's a practical application for high school trigonometry after all. :smugnerd:
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Mar 16, 2015 13:32
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So I figured out how to do the point blank and tight torpedo bomber volleys, holy poo poo is that the most unfair thing.
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Mar 16, 2015 13:37
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xthetenth posted:Pubbies shooting torpedoes at my battleship is kind of endearing, they're really not good at it. I've found "allied" pubbie destroyers have no problem landing torpedoes on my cruisers about every other game
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Mar 16, 2015 13:37
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Oh god the gun layout on the Isokaze is so bad.  They should have just replaced 3 of them with more torpedo tubes.
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Mar 16, 2015 13:39
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Don't let CV's sit in the back of the map at a full stop with nothing to do but send endless calculated waves of torpedoes at you. If they are busy evading getting sunk and having to maneuver all over the place then they do not have time to work out complicated poo poo. Most people can't steer a ship without managing to run into another player, an island or off the map boundaries because they are so focused. I cannot imagine the difficulty a CV player would have when they are being actively hunted down and trying to play in Starcraft mode effectively.
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Mar 16, 2015 13:43
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demonR6 posted:Don't let CV's sit in the back of the map at a full stop with nothing to do but send endless calculated waves of torpedoes at you. If they are busy evading getting sunk and having to maneuver all over the place then they do not have time to work out complicated poo poo. Most people can't steer a ship without managing to run into another player, an island or off the map boundaries because they are so focused. I cannot imagine the difficulty a CV player would have when they are being actively hunted down and trying to play in Starcraft mode effectively. You just shift-click a few waypoints. Takes less than three seconds. Unless the guy is bad enough that he can't do this but odds are he won't gridfuck you in the first place then. The proper solution is to have CAs and CVs that are on the ball with their AA weapons, but, well, good luck with that.
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Mar 16, 2015 13:46
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demonR6 posted:I enjoy the Cleveland and Kongo but the Cleveland steamer wins out since I can pound out more fire which is the main goal anyways. It's not good at long ranges but has noteworthy AA and is responsive. I generally fired one at where the enemy was and one at how I thought he'd dodge in alpha. Now I just stagger them slightly.
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Mar 16, 2015 14:02
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While there's still plenty of adjustments to be made, both major and minor, one that really sticks out to me in the "I cannot believe anyone thought this change was a decent idea" is the IJN destroyer gun speed. They're basically all sitting at ~45 seconds for the 180 turn, while US ones are turning that distance in 5. That's battleship speed, which is completely unacceptable on a platform maneuvering like a destroyer needs to. While IJN destroyers have better torpedoes, they're not THAT much better - especially at the higher tiers when the US start getting pretty good ones themselves. I just cannot imagine why anyone would play the tier ~9-10 IJN destroyers currently, as at that level both sides have >10 km, 60+kt torpedoes, while the US have such better guns it's not even funny. Excellent torpedoes and guns so poor they might as well not be there vs. very good torpedoes and excellent guns is not exactly a hard choice.
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Mar 16, 2015 14:23
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Ugh, had a string of games recently in my Kongo where my long-range shots kept landing just too far or too short of full broadsides on boats. In figuring out how to lead everything but a DD (and shoot over tall islands) I have apparently forgotten how to rangefinder my targets.
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Mar 16, 2015 14:45
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El_Molestadore posted:I was platooned with you when you last ragequit tanks. How is your blood pressure these days? I guess I'll be able to work myself up to some decent levels of sperging, with good help from my friend dunning kruger.
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Mar 16, 2015 14:52
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Fart Car '97 posted:Think of DDs like this: In the first half of the game, you just kill other DDs. Once they're thinned out, you look for targets of opportunity and jump them while they're occupied or go hunt down a carrier. Like everything you need to be constantly re-evaluating where you're going and what your next move is based on the minimap but with DDs I've found that you need to change plans constantly because you're so god drat fragile and can't afford to take any hits. This seems like good advice and I'm going to take it. You can't expect it in pub matches, but when it happens, teamwork is a wonderful thing. I was divisioned up with a buddy, I'm in my Cleveland, he in a St. Louis  . A Kongo was trying to cap, but the CV player kept the bombers coming. He wasn't aiming the planes well, but it was good enough to keep the Kongo distracted and maneuvering rather than shooting at us. Two CA's six inch guns reduced him fairly quickly. But we stayed out of his secondary battery range because holy poo poo are BB secondaries buffed from the beta weekend test. Two CA's closed within my secondaries, one on each side and the secondaries sunk one and severely damaged the other.
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Mar 16, 2015 15:06
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Lord Koth posted:While there's still plenty of adjustments to be made, both major and minor, one that really sticks out to me in the "I cannot believe anyone thought this change was a decent idea" is the IJN destroyer gun speed. They're basically all sitting at ~45 seconds for the 180 turn, while US ones are turning that distance in 5. That's battleship speed, which is completely unacceptable on a platform maneuvering like a destroyer needs to. While IJN destroyers have better torpedoes, they're not THAT much better - especially at the higher tiers when the US start getting pretty good ones themselves. I just cannot imagine why anyone would play the tier ~9-10 IJN destroyers currently, as at that level both sides have >10 km, 60+kt torpedoes, while the US have such better guns it's not even funny. Excellent torpedoes and guns so poor they might as well not be there vs. very good torpedoes and excellent guns is not exactly a hard choice. Also there's the big thing of the early US destroyers having essentially a double dose of torpedoes, as they get two launchers on each side of the ship, and with the speed a destroyer turns it's pretty easy to take a quick shot with both sides for a really insane double torpedo salvo. I don't think any of the japanese destroyers get that, they just have launchers down the center.
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Mar 16, 2015 15:18
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hopterque posted:Also there's the big thing of the early US destroyers having essentially a double dose of torpedoes, as they get two launchers on each side of the ship, and with the speed a destroyer turns it's pretty easy to take a quick shot with both sides for a really insane double torpedo salvo. I don't think any of the japanese destroyers get that, they just have launchers down the center. The extra 2-4k torpedo range the Japanese get makes a significant difference, especially if the enemy cruiser or battleship is in open water and you need to kill it. The 5.5k range of the Americans means you really need to get into knife-fighting range to get those 6-12 torps off, while praying their secondaries don't chew you up too badly. That being said, I had a couple of games where I hit behind an island in my Nicholas, and Kongos sailed around the edge at 1-2k away.  
Vorkosigan fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 15:24
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Vorkosigan posted:The extra 2-4k torpedo range the Japanese get makes a significant difference, especially if the enemy cruiser or battleship is in open water and you need to kill it. The 5.5k range of the Americans means you really need to get into knife-fighting range to get those 6-12 torps off, while praying their secondaries don't chew you up too badly. I was just saying that it's another thing that closes the gap between american and japanese destroyers, torpedo wise, and american ones still have the enormous gun advantage. e: Also I just got the Cleveland, oh man. I'm gonna miss the torpedoes of the Omaha a bit, but the guns, the guns! Also the giant swarming cloud of AA fire anytime anything gets close to me. hopterque fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 15:35
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Got my tier 6 american DD and man it kind hurts with the new larger map you can get. 4.5KM range torps and the same 4 cannons you have had on the past 3 ships, oh and you no longer get 4 tubes so you can poo poo out torpedoes in multiple directions. The Nicholas (tier 5) was great but this tier 6 ugh. What do you get in return now? A little bit of AA that is still pretty worthless and in general will get you killed having them on. It is still pretty hilarious to duel DDs that only try to hit you with torps and don't even acknowledge that they have guns nice free juicy kills.
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Mar 16, 2015 16:47
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Man CV really aren't fun as soon as ships with AA are involved, timing becomes impossible with the RNG of being under fire and you generally don't have tough enough planes, tier6 AA absolutely shreds my tier5 bombers to a point where I might as well not be there.
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Mar 16, 2015 16:59
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Tahirovic posted:Man CV really aren't fun as soon as ships with AA are involved, timing becomes impossible with the RNG of being under fire and you generally don't have tough enough planes, tier6 AA absolutely shreds my tier5 bombers to a point where I might as well not be there. Yeah, I was Kongo'ing with a friend on TS, and we mauled a TB wave as we were sailing fairly close to each other. I can see this extending into later tiers when more ships have AA on them.
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Mar 16, 2015 17:05
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Any time any planes fly over my cleveland it's just "enemy plane shot down" over and over again, it's great. I can't even imagine what the really high tier AA is like.
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Mar 16, 2015 17:18
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AA should really be manually aimed and you should also be able to use DP mounts on destroyers / cruisers as flak
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Mar 16, 2015 17:25
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DonkeyHotay posted:AA should really be manually aimed and you should also be able to use DP mounts on destroyers / cruisers as flak You CAN use DP mounts as Flak.
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Mar 16, 2015 17:28
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Saint Celestine posted:You CAN use DP mounts as Flak. Wait what, how?
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Mar 16, 2015 17:29
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Tier 4-5 carriers ridiculous because AA is poo poo. Tier 6+ AA is ridiculous so carriers are useless. WG
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Mar 16, 2015 17:41
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