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Yeah, I guess Porcupine Tree, although they were rather hit or miss in the 90s. The Sky Moves Sideways was an excellent album though. I liked bands like Spock's Beard and The Flower Kings, but they were pretty derivative prog. Not prog in the true "progressive" sense. Just prog copying the old prog sound.
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Mar 14, 2015 07:35
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My opinion is that most of the best progressive music of the nineties came out of the late nineties post-black-metal/avant-garde scene in northern Europe. Those gave us bands like Arcturus, ...In the Woods, Borknagar, Solefald, Ved Buens Ende, Negura Bunget, and Enslaved's prog period. Traditional/crossover prog was definitely suffering for basically the whole decade - I can't even think of one band besides Echolyn who was listenable.
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Mar 14, 2015 16:27
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I'm on record in this thread as saying that some of Marillion s 90s stuff is good, but it's also not very proggy.
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Mar 14, 2015 16:33
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The best progressive music of the 90's was electronic and electro-acoustic music not guitar-centric rock or metal!
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Mar 14, 2015 16:40
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Earwicker posted:The best progressive music of the 90's was electronic and electro-acoustic music not guitar-centric rock or metal! There is a certain irony in music labeled as progressive having a not inconsiderable fanbase that only listens to it if there's guitars
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Mar 14, 2015 16:43
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True. Although it's hard to take the "rock" out of "progressive rock". There's a whole world of progressive music that has nothing much to do with the rock idiom.
BigFactory fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 16:43
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Declan MacManus posted:There is a certain irony in music labeled as progressive having a not inconsiderable fanbase that only listens to it if there's guitars I always heard/thought of the progressive label as referring to the song structure, not any actual innovation.
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Mar 14, 2015 19:06
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Henchman of Santa posted:I always heard/thought of the progressive label as referring to the song structure, not any actual innovation. I believe it originally did mean rock music that was attempting to progress beyond the popular verse chorus verse hit radio single format and actually progress rock itself artistically to a variety of new structures and included more influences from classical, jazz, and traditional music. However it soon became a genre in and of itself, which is often poisonous for actual innovation or musical progressiveness, because with genres come forms that are easy to get stuck in and legions of genre purist fans to reinforce it.
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Mar 14, 2015 19:10
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Here's a thing I'm finding, especially as I get older and lose my patience, along with my hair. Of course, I still like prog. Sure, have done since I was a kid, listening to my parents' ELP, Kansas, Floyd and Nektar records. But I'm realizing that the thing that I really dig isn't so much these amazing musicians wailing for full album sides (though I still can hit Close to the Edge, Plague of Lighthouse Keepers, Tarkus or 2112 or any of their ilk basically any time and love it) it's that I really like when these guys who could and did write symphonies took on the pop form at its own game and wrote verse/chorus/verse songs with far-out synth melodies, jazzy changes and weird lyrics. So, yeah, I'm way more likely to put Abacab on than The Lamb, I really like Asia, I think Touch and Go is still a great single, even though it's pretty cheesy, Grandaddy is the best band you've never heard, etc. What should I dig into next? I've heard a little bit of Gentle Giant that I'm on the fence about, that would probably be the next step, what other sort of prog-pop is out there? I've probably heard some/a bunch of it, but there's always something new to discover somewhere in people's record collections.
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Mar 14, 2015 19:25
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Allen Wren posted:What should I dig into next? I've heard a little bit of Gentle Giant that I'm on the fence about, that would probably be the next step, what other sort of prog-pop is out there? I've probably heard some/a bunch of it, but there's always something new to discover somewhere in people's record collections. Big Big Train, Renaissance, Pure Reason Revolution, Flying Colors, Maudlin of the Well, Oblivion Sun, Squackett.
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Mar 14, 2015 20:19
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Seventh Arrow posted:Big Big Train, Renaissance, Pure Reason Revolution, Flying Colors, [b]Maudlin of the Well,[b] Oblivion Sun, Squackett.
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Mar 14, 2015 20:34
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Allen Wren posted:Here's a thing I'm finding, especially as I get older and lose my patience, along with my hair. You probably have, but if for some reason you haven't given 80's Rush a fair shake, Power Windows, Hold Your Fire and Grace Under Pressure are all amazing.
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Mar 14, 2015 20:56
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I would say a fair amount of Moody Blues falls under "prog pop" you might like them, start with their late 60's stuff
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Mar 14, 2015 21:57
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Seventh Arrow posted:Big Big Train, Renaissance, Pure Reason Revolution, Flying Colors, Maudlin of the Well, Oblivion Sun, Squackett. Nothing against maudlin of the Well (or Kayo Dot, or any of Toby Driver's other projects for that matter), but I don't know how avant-garde death metal/doom metal/chamber music could possibly count as "pop-prog." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4cWwwVtf1s The rest of your suggestions are great, though!
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Mar 14, 2015 23:29
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Yeah, I must have been thinking of something else. Admittedly the only album I have by them is Part The Second. The album cover is pretty pastoral, though  
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Mar 15, 2015 00:06
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Seventh Arrow posted:Yeah, I must have been thinking of something else. Admittedly the only album I have by them is Part The Second. The album cover is pretty pastoral, though Even that is a very, very far cry from Asia. Also what are you doing get all of their albums this instant
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Mar 15, 2015 00:17
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Allen Wren posted:Here's a thing I'm finding, especially as I get older and lose my patience, along with my hair. Some of the Italian prog bands turned into pop later(and were probably closer to what you like even when they were prog), you could check out the later Le Orme albums, I think 1976 or 77 is when they start being pop. Misogynist posted:My opinion is that most of the best progressive music of the nineties came out of the late nineties post-black-metal/avant-garde scene in northern Europe. Those gave us bands like Arcturus, ...In the Woods, Borknagar, Solefald, Ved Buens Ende, Negura Bunget, and Enslaved's prog period. Traditional/crossover prog was definitely suffering for basically the whole decade - I can't even think of one band besides Echolyn who was listenable. Those bands are all boring to terrible and there's nothing avant-garde about any of them.
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Mar 15, 2015 00:44
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Seventh Arrow posted:Big Big Train, Renaissance, Pure Reason Revolution, Flying Colors, Maudlin of the Well, Oblivion Sun, Squackett. Literally never heard of any of these groups aside from Squackett. Taking notes. (misparsed that as Laughing Colors for a moment, though, that is a different group entirely.) BigFactory posted:You probably have, but if for some reason you haven't given 80's Rush a fair shake, Power Windows, Hold Your Fire and Grace Under Pressure are all amazing. HYF is far and away my favorite Rush record. I totally understand why they kind of consider it a record they needed to change up their method after, but it's not as if I dislike Presto, either. Earwicker posted:I would say a fair amount of Moody Blues falls under "prog pop" you might like them, start with their late 60's stuff My first concert (199...7?) was the Moodies in a literal cow pasture in New York. They're great. I definitely need to dig more into their records, though, I mostly know (most of) the 60s-early 70s albums and (most of) the singles from later. A human heart posted:Some of the Italian prog bands turned into pop later(and were probably closer to what you like even when they were prog), you could check out the later Le Orme albums, I think 1976 or 77 is when they start being pop. Will do.
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Mar 15, 2015 01:27
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It'd be nice if the genre could show some lyrical ambition; I've yet to hear good prog lyrics outside a handful of bands
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Mar 16, 2015 01:31
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Slur posted:It'd be nice if the genre could show some lyrical ambition; I've yet to hear good prog lyrics outside a handful of bands It's just not a genre where the lyrics are very important. Henry Cow and Van Der Graaf Generator spring to mind as having good lyrics though.
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Mar 16, 2015 01:43
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Slur posted:It'd be nice if the genre could show some lyrical ambition; I've yet to hear good prog lyrics outside a handful of bands You mean James LaBrie singing "I'm just a poor girl, afraid of this cruel world" didn't cut it for you?
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Mar 16, 2015 02:18
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Jethro Tull lyrics always seemed pretty solid to me
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Mar 16, 2015 03:24
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It's the go-to genre for lyrics about elven necromancers living in frozen wastelands.
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Mar 16, 2015 04:15
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A human heart posted:Those bands are all boring to terrible and there's nothing avant-garde about any of them. Helicity posted:You mean James LaBrie singing "I'm just a poor girl, afraid of this cruel world" didn't cut it for you? TELL ME WHAT'S "IN" Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 06:44
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Misogynist posted:If you want to write a three-page ANUS-style rant about the purity of avant-garde art, I'd love to read it the next time I'm on the can. I don't know why I would do that. It's simply fact that those bands aren't 'avant garde', there's really no metal that can be described with that term.
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Mar 16, 2015 09:02
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A human heart posted:I don't know why I would do that. It's simply fact that those bands aren't 'avant garde', there's really no metal that can be described with that term. Out of curiosity, what do you think avant-garde means? Because the textbook definition is "favoring or introducing experimental or unusual ideas/ahead of its time" and I'd contend that at least half of the bands Misogynist listed fall into that category, as would Dødheimsgard, Gorguts (Obscura album...pretty hard to argue against that one), and then things like Diablo Swing Orchestra if you stretch it a little.
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Mar 16, 2015 09:39
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https://duplicaterecords.bandcamp.com/album/elektriske-skrekk-gler-og-forhistoriske-framtidsfabler Norwegian band Tusmørke released a song from their upcoming split with Spectral Haze. Cover: 
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Mar 16, 2015 12:56
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Also, lately I've been dancing in my seat to swedish Agusa's album Högtid, released in 2014. Link to opening song, Uti Vår Hage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Iew2wvquQY
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Mar 16, 2015 13:10
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Optimum Gulps posted:Out of curiosity, what do you think avant-garde means? Because the textbook definition is "favoring or introducing experimental or unusual ideas/ahead of its time" and I'd contend that at least half of the bands Misogynist listed fall into that category, as would Dødheimsgard, Gorguts (Obscura album...pretty hard to argue against that one), and then things like Diablo Swing Orchestra if you stretch it a little. Those bands were doing stuff that hadn't been done(or not very much) in metal before, but I really don't think they were innovating outside of that. Arcturus made dance beat circus metal, which is weird, but it's not what I'd call avant garde. Most of it was a gimmick of a few extra instruments, or a few funny time signatures thrown in with metal. Like think of some of the RIO bands from the 70s, or some of the more interesting branches of krautrock, you might have been able to apply the avant garde label to those(though I don't know if would personally) but to prog metal bands that were largely taking influence from older prog bands anyway? Calling them avant garde makes the whole term meaningless. You can't say that the avant garde includes composers like Cage or Xenakis or art movements like Futurism and then claim that anything done by Enslaved or Negara Bunget is worthy of the same term. They're bands working within a well established genre framework, even if some of them did some stuff that was unconventional for that genre.
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Mar 16, 2015 14:09
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Incidentally, since 90s prog was the beginning of this discussion, both Koenjihyakkei and Ruins put out most of their stuff in the 90s.
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Mar 16, 2015 14:11
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A human heart posted:Those bands were doing stuff that hadn't been done(or not very much) in metal before, but I really don't think they were innovating outside of that. Arcturus made dance beat circus metal, which is weird, but it's not what I'd call avant garde. Most of it was a gimmick of a few extra instruments, or a few funny time signatures thrown in with metal. Like think of some of the RIO bands from the 70s, or some of the more interesting branches of krautrock, you might have been able to apply the avant garde label to those(though I don't know if would personally) but to prog metal bands that were largely taking influence from older prog bands anyway? Calling them avant garde makes the whole term meaningless. You can't say that the avant garde includes composers like Cage or Xenakis or art movements like Futurism and then claim that anything done by Enslaved or Negara Bunget is worthy of the same term. They're bands working within a well established genre framework, even if some of them did some stuff that was unconventional for that genre. Yeah, avant garde as a musical movement has too many roots in jazz and 20th century classical/modernism/minimalism to toss the label on metal bands and have it mean anything.
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Mar 16, 2015 14:19
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edit: nvm Earwicker fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 14:38
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A human heart posted:Incidentally, since 90s prog was the beginning of this discussion, both Koenjihyakkei and Ruins put out most of their stuff in the 90s. Yeah 90's prog is generally not good - the whole Tatsuya Yoshida sphere of everything is great but I hesitate to even put that into any genre. I do agree that Echolyn are great, those 90's discs are awesome and if anything their post-reformation material is even more awesome. Cowboy Poems Free is a great example of a disc that manages to be unique, exciting, and progressive while still sounding modern, while Mei is something that (IMO) stands up against any of the uberepics of the golden era like "Close to the Edge" or "Supper's Ready". That said I think plenty of recent prog bands are plenty good. There's Glass Hammer who I love, actually formed in '93 (I think) but they didn't really get good until the turn of the millenium. The Tangent is awesome, kinda like a much less boring Flower Kings (who ain't bad if that's your scene). Druckfarben, Deluge Grander, and Birds and Buildings (the last two done by the same guy) all have done real excellent material, the sort of thing that benefits greatly from hindsight with respect to what works and what doesn't. As much great prog music was made from (say) 1969 to 1975 I would argue there's a similar thing going on over the last 15 years or so.
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Mar 16, 2015 15:30
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I'm disappointed that Änglagård hasn't come up in this entire discussion of 90s prog
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Mar 16, 2015 17:24
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a medical mystery posted:I'm disappointed that Änglagård hasn't come up in this entire discussion of 90s prog I think one review I read about them summed them up as "the very definition of all of progressive rock's negative stereotypes". I listened to two of their albums, and I have to wholeheartedly agree with them. I also don't get a huge kick out of them because I find them to be horribly derivative of the bands which came out of the 70s. Just not my thing, to be honest.
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Mar 17, 2015 06:25
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Yeah, me neither - I found them dry and unmemorable, even though their musicianship is really great for a group of early 20-somethings. Why they got the tag of God's gift to throwback prog is beyond me. People go nuts about them!
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Mar 17, 2015 13:46
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I think it's mostly a nostalgia thing. They really sound like they stepped right out of the 1970's, they have great chops, and people who want Prog that sounds like Prog go apeshit over them. They put on a good show at NF2012, but I remember being baffled by the extent of the praise lavished on them on ProgressiveEars afterward. Like, really, you thought Anglagard were the highlight of the whole festival? The same festival that opened with Aranis and goddamn Van der Graaf Generator?
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Mar 18, 2015 08:30
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Rollersnake posted:I think it's mostly a nostalgia thing. They really sound like they stepped right out of the 1970's, they have great chops, and people who want Prog that sounds like Prog go apeshit over them. Wobbler does the same exact thing, at least on their first album which is the only one I've listened to. It's funny and also kind of sad that what is now meant by "prog that sounds like prog" is about as counter to the idea of progressive music as one can get. It's literally just a detailed imitation of a style from several decades ago.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:50
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Ok, so the Kansas Miracles out of Nowhere Blu Ray is really loving great, particularly the bonus dvd with all the Mixes that Jeff Glixman does on the fly. Criminally underrated Prog. Kerry Livgren is a genius. Truth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dumOc5V_PcE
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Mar 18, 2015 18:58
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Allen Wren posted:Here's a thing I'm finding, especially as I get older and lose my patience, along with my hair. Roxy Music is arguably progressive muisic, and Brian Eno is almost definitely progressive music. Gentle Giant is also worth exploring; they went full-on disco/Drama weirdness for their last few albums and they tend to keep it brief even as they're rocking out renaissance style
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Mar 18, 2015 19:06
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