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Discendo Vox posted:Richard is appearing to more than one character with consistent characteristics between their appearances, with knowledge of events they don't know. He doesn't "have knowledge" of anything, he's just expressing their own insecurities or paranoia. The "consistent characteristics" (if you're talking about the rooster mask) come directly from public knowledge of the Jacket murders and Jacket's rooster mask. Phil Niekro posted:The chicken is death, god, fate, or something like that. Or, again, he's just each character's subconscious manifesting itself as Jacket's default "persona"/disguise.
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Mar 16, 2015 23:55
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Discendo Vox posted:This is part of why I got all excited by the Richter's father stuff, and why I'm still poking around for connections- I'd love it to be good. It's such a waste of potential. If they patch the gameplay and release a level maker with story controls, expect some fanfic revisions from me. I think it's pretty cool that you're so upset about a game you enjoyed playing that you're quoting yourself just so you can keep arguing since no one really gives two shits.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:01
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King Vidiot posted:He doesn't "have knowledge" of anything, he's just expressing their own insecurities or paranoia. The "consistent characteristics" (if you're talking about the rooster mask) come directly from public knowledge of the Jacket murders and Jacket's rooster mask. He knows about the nuke, and he feeds Mark the lines immediately prior to everyone's deaths in the scene before Death Wish. His interaction with Beard and the whole hard mode intro scene also indicates separate intentions, action and existence.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:01
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Surprisingly Dope posted:I didn't even know you could lock on to enemies. Also check out this sick vid https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Wgz2TbcfE Locking on is of questionable value because it doesn't guarantee you'll hit and it won't compensate for a moving target very well. But you can't do it at all in Hard Mode, so I guess they consider it enough of an asset to deny it from the player just to be a jerk.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:01
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I thought they all saw Jacket because Jacket was famous and because they're all hosed up people and something about Anonymous Slaughtering Chicken Man resonated within their various demented souls? He's like Murderous Retard Jesus - a dude who probably existed but has a different meaning for everyone who ponders the lessons he imparted.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:03
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Discendo Vox posted:He knows about the nuke, and he feeds Mark the lines immediately prior to everyone's deaths in the scene before Death Wish. His interaction with Beard also indicates separate action or existence. Beard is also a skeleton when he is having that conversation. Richard knows the end is coming, but doesn't know what; because that's what Richter feels is coming. Richter just knows that it's taking everyone with it. The past has caught up with him and everyone else. e: Mark is having a premonition.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:03
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Just played a bunch of Hotline Miami 1 out of nostaliga. I was okay at it over all the time that I played prior to HLM2, but holy poo poo if its sequel doesn't forge you in the fires of frustration. The tiny little levels with no more than 10 or so enemies at a given time in the original game seem almost quaint now, you can just power through the game like it's nothing. HLM2 is gigantic in comparison. While the level design in HLM1 is fantastic, it's given me a profound realisation on how nice HLM2 is to the player in terms of feedback. Enemies getting stuck in doorframes and spindogs notwithstanding, the combat in HLM2 is far more responsive and feels more "fair" than HLM1. Enemies that kill you in melee in the original game will sometimes do it so quickly you won't even see them swing, which is largely alleviated in the sequel. I'm not sure whether it's the size of the levels, but I'm certain ranged projectiles are slower in HLM2 as well: You'll get fried as soon as a ranged opponent sees you in the original game. Both games are awesome though, I have 14 hours in HLM1 and 18 in HLM2. I still can't wait for the level editor.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:04
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There's no real indication that they're even actually seeing Richard as Richard. We're seeing Richard, because Richard has been that character for the player in the previous games. Perhaps each character sees him as something different? It would explain why Richter's mother see's him as Richter's father and all the other inconsistencies. The Biker mentions seeing someone in the desert that completely terrified him, which is obviously him seeing whatever it is Richard represents, but it might not actually have been a guy in a Rooster mask.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:05
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Discendo Vox posted:He knows about the nuke, and he feeds Mark the lines immediately prior to everyone's deaths in the scene before Death Wish. His interaction with Beard also indicates separate action or existence. Another theory, the characters seeing Richard actually indicates that they're in some kind of Jacob's Ladder hallucination of their lives leading up to the very point of their death. The reason Richard "sees the future" is that it's actually the past being recounted at the point of death, and in some cases those who are dying imagine Richard during certain key moments in their past.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:06
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Justin_Brett posted:So, basically no ability then. There's quite a few dudes that have pistols, so it isn't worthless. RBA Starblade posted:Each part is named after parts of a story! Though Climax sort of jumps the gun. The Fans die and they're the most fun to play as so it is the climax, really. Brovstin posted:I was kinda surprised the Actor didn't do more. I vaguely recall some of the previews implying that he was going on his own vigilante murder spree in order to "get in character." They implied that he'd have more of a role, and hinted that The Fans were going to stumble onto a huge drug operation where they got more and more psychotic while Corey started to think "maybe we're a little bit messed up". Also that Jake and Evan would get more then 2/3 levels. Oh well. Discendo Vox posted:So once again, if the plot is coherent, our possible meanings are "violence is bad", "nothing matters because the sweet release of death embraces us all", or "the spooky talking chicken head man is always right". No. It's more like "don't get so obsessed over violence that it consumes your entire life" or "don't get so obsessed over something specific, just try to find happiness where you can." The first is obvious, the latter is presented by things like Evan giving up his dream book to stay with his family which is what ultimately values the most. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 00:07
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Justin_Brett posted:So, basically no ability then. He can start each level with the shotgun and can finish knocked down goons without dropping the gun or expending ammo.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:11
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RBA Starblade posted:Beard is also a skeleton when he is having that conversation. Richard knows the end is coming, but doesn't know what; because that's what Richter feels is coming. Richter just knows that it's taking everyone with it. The past has caught up with him and everyone else. So, your alternate explanation is three separate explanations- someone is already dead, someone else is having a premonition, and someone else is hallucinating their own feelings, all using the same character- for different cases, one of which includes that Richard has a separate knowledge and identity from the person "experiencing" him. Yes, Richard exists as a separate entity. King Vidiot posted:Another theory, the characters seeing Richard actually indicates that they're in some kind of Jacob's Ladder hallucination of their lives leading up to the very point of their death. The reason Richard "sees the future" is that it's actually the past being recounted at the point of death, and in some cases those who are dying imagine Richard during certain key moments in their past. A Jacob's Ladder explanation would work better, and would sort of explain the hard mode intro, but it still begs the question of why they included so many characters, especially Jake. (My guess is the answer is the narrative is a patchwork of underutilized ideas  )Anatharon posted:They implied that he'd have more of a role, and hinted that The Fans were going to stumble onto a huge drug operation where they got more and more psychotic while Corey started to think "maybe we're a little bit messed up". That's the big thing- it looks like they decided to cut like half of each character's story arc when they started running out of time, rather than tighten up the cludge of narrative half-starts. Maybe it'll wind up as DLC! 
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Mar 17, 2015 00:13
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Phil Niekro posted:He can start each level with the shotgun and can finish knocked down goons without dropping the gun or expending ammo. Only Homicide. In Dead Ahead there's a kidnapping victim in his trunk and in Caught he's in a dream
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Mar 17, 2015 00:14
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Discendo Vox posted:If a symbolic accounting of something has to include the phrase "something like that", it's a really bad sign. More generally, if you need an omniscient character to appear to everyone to tell them what is right and wrong, it's a really bad sign. To me it seems like the Grim Reaper has been replaced with Richard in the culture of the game. Which is a symbol of pretty much all those things.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:14
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Anatharon posted:No. It's more like "don't get so obsessed over violence that it consumes your entire life" or "don't get so obsessed over something specific, just try to find happiness where you can." The first is obvious, the latter is presented by things like Evan giving up his dream book to stay with his family which is what ultimately values the most. So, "the spooky talking chicken head man is always right", then, but what he's right about varies by narrative. All hail Cockmask McAuthorInsert! May his rhetorical questions allow for player agency in only one case due to development schedule constraints! thread title suggestion: Hotline Miami 3: Wrong Number: All hail Cockmask McAuthorInsert!
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Mar 17, 2015 00:17
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Discendo Vox posted:So, "the spooky talking chicken head man is always right", then, but what he's right about varies by narrative. All hail Cockmask McAuthorInsert! May his rhetorical questions allow for player agency in only one case due to development schedule constraints!
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Mar 17, 2015 00:18
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Discendo Vox posted:So, "the spooky talking chicken head man is always right", then, but what he's right about varies by narrative. All hail Cockmask McAuthorInsert! May his rhetorical questions allow for player agency in only one case due to development schedule constraints! It's comical how you're getting steadily more strident as your initial wrong assumptions were torn down and you find you've got nothing left to replace them. Just let it go and move on, dude.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:18
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Discendo Vox posted:Yes, Richard exists as a separate entity.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:18
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Anatharon posted:Only Homicide. In Dead Ahead there's a kidnapping victim in his trunk and in Caught he's in a dream Cool. Only knew about his trunk second hand.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:19
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Hotline Miami 5: Wrong Number - Do not interact with the Discendo Vox Echo ChamberSongbearer posted:Just played a bunch of Hotline Miami 1 out of nostaliga.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:20
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quote:So, "the spooky talking chicken head man is always right", then, but what he's right about varies by narrative. Go look at Evan's conversation with "Richard" again and see if you notice anything off.  quote:It's comical how you're getting steadily more strident as your initial wrong assumptions were torn down and you find you've got nothing left to replace them. Just let it go and move on, dude. The funny thing is the janitors were the self-insert. He's upset about the wrong thing.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:21
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RBA Starblade posted:So since you brought up Mark's premonition as proof he's separate and real, do you think when Mark sees Richard, and a second Richard, and a third Richard, that there are really many Richards? How do you justify that with your idea that he's a unique singular entity? Richard appears to people and manipulates their dreams. If in what remains of a plot he has any consistent identity, I'd guess he's either the thing that possessed the commander and is behind the 50 Blessings, or its counterpart.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:22
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Discendo Vox posted:Richard appears to people and manipulates their dreams. If in what remains of a plot he has any consistent identity, I'd guess he's either the thing that possessed the commander and is behind the 50 Blessings, or its counterpart. So he's able to possess and manipulate human bodies too, as well as being Legion?
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Mar 17, 2015 00:22
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It's nice that the person complaining about how contrived the plot is is seriously suggesting things more contrived and nonsensical in magnitude as a "better" alternative
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Mar 17, 2015 00:23
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Holy poo poo, the Richter levels on hard mode do not mess around. I'm pretty sure they shoved 30 goons into the first floor of the bar level.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:24
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:It's nice that the person complaining about how contrived the plot is is seriously suggesting things more contrived and nonsensical in magnitude as a "better" alternative "If this plot makes any sense then Miami is under the thrall of an omnipresent spirit in the guise of a man wearing a chicken mask."
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Mar 17, 2015 00:24
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Aint no meltdown like a Vox meltdown. 
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Mar 17, 2015 00:24
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Oxxidation posted:"If this plot makes any sense then Miami is under the thrall of an omnipresent spirit in the guise of a man wearing a chicken mask."
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Mar 17, 2015 00:25
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RBA Starblade posted:Go look at Evan's conversation with "Richard" again and see if you notice anything off. I don't see anything off about that scene- are you referring to the fact that he doesn't call it a dream? Would you prefer "vision"? RBA Starblade posted:The funny thing is the janitors were the self-insert. He's upset about the wrong thing. The thing acting as the absolute moral voice in the narrative is the voice of the author. It's playing the same role that the janitors played in the first game- telling the player what the creator wants them to get from the narrative as directly as possible.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:27
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Discendo Vox posted:I don't see anything off about that scene- are you referring to the fact that he doesn't call it a dream? Would you prefer "vision"? Richard doesn't look weird to you? Evan is seeing a guy in a mask, and not a talking chicken head man like everyone else. e: Oh wait I'm dumb it's someone else who sees that. Now I need to figure out who. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 00:28
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RBA Starblade posted:Richard doesn't look weird to you? Oh, in Abyss? Yes, I was the one who first mentioned that in the thread, I think. I don't know what to do with Abyss- my guess is that was created late in development so that everyone but the henchman would have at least three scenes. Evan has a separate conversation with "Richard" before Subway where he exposits the familial motivation narrative. Since they actually let the player choose, and later convey it implicitly with the house outside of Richard interactions, it's actually much better done than the other ones.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:32
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I do not understand why Hawaii levels or Dead Ahead or Death Wish or really any levels get the hate that they do. Were your parents murdered by Hawaii levels? They all took pretty much the time I had expected for their position in the story. I don't think I hate any of the levels. Good game A+ like it. Would play again.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:33
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Discendo Vox posted:Oh, in Abyss? Yes, I was the one who first mentioned that in the thread, I think. I don't know what to do with Abyss- my guess is that was created late in development so that everyone but the henchman would have at least three scenes. Evan has a separate conversation with "Richard" before Subway where he exposits the familial motivation narrative. Since they actually let the player choose, and later convey it implicitly with the house outside of Richard interactions, it's actually much better done than the other ones. No, that's my bad and it's another scene doing it. I mistook it for Subway. Unless it was something they patched in the three a day I keep getting from Steam but I doubt it.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:33
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Also I don't really see how Richard has any particularly special powers of precognition other than vaguely hinting something huge and hosed up may be around the corner, which isn't exactly a thought that probably hasn't crossed everyone's mind at any given time, particularly as they're living in a world where Russian-American relations are rapidly deteriorating and a nuke has already been used
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Mar 17, 2015 00:33
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:The henchman's cat was the true mastermind all along If you get all the S ranks on normal and hard, and then (last-level spoilers)walk back downstairs instead of off the roof in Apocalypse, you find out it was a dog in the control room the entire time.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:35
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 I just redid Hot and Heavy in HLM. It destroyed me before but now after 2 its a breeze. Also it's really striking how much better the ai in two is after going back, along with some control and attack speed differences. I'm really looking forward to the inevitable Hotline Miami 1.5 when the level editor is out.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:35
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Ddraig posted:Also I don't really see how Richard has any particularly special powers of precognition other than vaguely hinting something huge and hosed up may be around the corner, which isn't exactly a thought that probably hasn't crossed everyone's mind at any given time, particularly as they're living in a world where Russian-American relations are rapidly deteriorating and a nuke has already been used He gives exact quotes of what Mark's friends will say at the end of the night when everything goes wrong.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:35
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RBA Starblade posted:No, that's my bad and it's another scene doing it. I mistook it for Subway. Oh, weird- that could be really interesting- I don't know of any others! The only other case I can think of that's significant that way is the pigmask in final cut is a nonliving mask, the second clue that the entire sequence is a staged movie and not a hallucination. It's that sort of attention to detail that makes me want the game to actually have a complete structure. Ddraig posted:Also I don't really see how Richard has any particularly special powers of precognition other than vaguely hinting something huge and hosed up may be around the corner, which isn't exactly a thought that probably hasn't crossed everyone's mind at any given time, particularly as they're living in a world where Russian-American relations are rapidly deteriorating and a nuke has already been used He has characters recite lines from later in the scene immediately before their deaths. e:f,b Can anyone identify all the characters we don't play as in the bar of broken heroes? Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 00:39
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Zinkraptor posted:Okay this is really late but I'm pretty sure the main clue to the actor being messed up is the fact that, in the levels we play as him, things appear as "real" despite just being a film. I think it's supposed to show how, despite being "just a movie", it comes across as more"real" to him because of how much he wants to live out his violent fantasies. Actor's bits in the comic are really hosed up too as he butchers a family and then a cabin full of teens Jason style while we read the Actor's hosed up narration until at the end, someone yells CUT! and everyone gives him kudos on his performance. Sometimes the scenes being a movie is a bit more unnerving than if they actually were real. There's also probably some parallel to the Actor's scenes and Pardo's with the whole Becoming A Character bit. It's definitely a disjointed narrative at times, but all the scenes are pretty interesting on their own and it's fun to talk about, even if it doesn't always work.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:57
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Catcus does some phenomenal pixel art. His drawings are clean, beautifully animated and full of character, and there's rarely ever a time where I can't figure out what even the most simply drawn object is supposed to be. ...Except for this.  For the longest goddamn time I was confused as to why there were decapitated mannequin heads littered all over the game. I just couldn't figure it out for the life of me. I've only just realised that it's supposed to be a discarded soda. Christ.
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Mar 17, 2015 01:13
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