|
I think a good way to ID a bad battleship driver is one who immediately launches their scout plane the moment the round starts.
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 23:50 |
|
|
OhsH posted:motherfucker probably doesn't even think escaflowne is the best anime There are many things I can forgive, but not this. Started playing carriers again. Langley is a slow turd and the planes suck, I want my Saipan back.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:08
|
|
|
Fart Car '97 posted:I think a good way to ID a bad battleship driver is one who immediately launches their scout plane the moment the round starts. The scouts last a lot longer than they did in Alpha, so it's at least not a complete waste like it used to be.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:12
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:Also destroyers have a huge implicit relative speed buff because everything actually moves many times faster than if says on the tin. Sorry can you explain this? Are you referring to how in a 8 minute battle the game will tell you that you traveled like 40 miles?
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:12
|
|
|
BadLlama posted:Sorry can you explain this? Are you referring to how in a 8 minute battle the game will tell you that you traveled like 40 miles?
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:20
|
|
|
For reference, 30 knots (usual fast cruiser/battleship/battlecruiser speed around 28-30 knots) is 55 km/h.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:24
|
|
|
Man the Omaha is just a pile of badass  When you can stay away from ClevelandsGonna miss these torps eventually.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:26
|
|
|
Nordick posted:Simple: While in game, pick a spot, say, 10 kilometers away. Then see how much time it takes you to reach that spot. I'd hazard a guess it's a whole lot faster than it actually takes to travel that distance in the real world. Oh yeah that is true, but everyone is traveling at that magic super speed not just DDs.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:28
|
|
|
James Garfield posted:Considering how equal tier battleships and cruisers compare, where even if the cruiser has every advantage in positioning I'd expect a non stupid battleship to win with more than half its health left? I don't know if destroyers were ever suppose to counter battleships. Ship classes aren't suppose to be balanced 1v1v1, and you should never be expecting to 1v1 a battleship unless his turret is facing away from you or you got the jump on him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:28
|
|
|
SuperSix posted:I don't know if destroyers were ever suppose to counter battleships. Ship classes aren't suppose to be balanced 1v1v1, and you should never be expecting to 1v1 a battleship unless his turret is facing away from you or you got the jump on him. They were supposed to on paper. The problem is, if destroyers don't counter battleships, then what does? Carriers don't do so well, especially if you're in a match with a higher tier carrier. Plus, you only get 2 carriers per side per match. Cruisers are countered by battleships. Battleships do?
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:33
|
|
|
Adventure Pigeon posted:They were supposed to on paper. The problem is, if destroyers don't counter battleships, then what does? Destroyers counter subs of course.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:37
|
|
|
santanotreal posted:Destroyers counter subs of course. Well we are doing a drat good job at it then  "Their camo values and smoke screens are already pretty good to fit in with their role. Remember that the role of DDs is to fight other DDs and Carriers. NOT BBs." Wait what? Also holy poo poo what is with all these anime sperg names. BadLlama fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Mar 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:38
|
|
|
BadLlama posted:Oh yeah that is true, but everyone is traveling at that magic super speed not just DDs. That still does scale up the relative speed difference. Adventure Pigeon posted:They were supposed to on paper. The problem is, if destroyers don't counter battleships, then what does? Battleships are the counter to battleships, much as they are the counter to cruisers, and destroyers and carriers require a skill mismatch to win at reasonable cost.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 22:57
|
|
|
I almost single handily saved a game in my tier six us DD, against a fuso, two DD's and a cleveland, loosing two turrets, a torp tube, and all my team before they killed me 
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:02
|
|
|
The game is "Support your batteships." That's the game. BBs kill everything, Cruisers and Destroyers prevent the Battleships from dying an untimely death via torpedo. Once that's gone on long enough, windows to cause untimely death via torpedo open and you can mop the BBs up. Once you realize where the ship you're driving falls into that ecosystem the ships make a lot more sense and the game is cool as heck, except when your BB drivers are idiots which is most of the time. Thankfully often times even keeping the bad BB drivers alive means winning. Carriers seem like a dumb gimmick and 99% of carrier drivers rush their TBs out and lose half of them and miss all their torpedoes so I just ignore them mostly, except when their TBs provide free AAA kills. Fart Car '97 fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Mar 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:08
|
|
|
Fart Car '97 posted:Carriers seem like a dumb gimmick and 99% of carrier drivers rush their TBs out and lose half of them and miss all their torpedoes so I just ignore them mostly, except when their TBs provide free AAA kills. Fighter carrier fo lyfe.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:14
|
|
|
Why would destroyers counter battleships? They're support ships. It seems pretty obvious to me. They've got smoke they can use to lay down cover for other ships. The Japanese have good torps and maneuverability to harass fleets at long distance, or they can gamble, and risk everything on a potentially devastating point-blank attack. American destroyers carry guns that can mince Japanese destroyers, and can pose enough of a threat that they can take pressure off of capital ships. They can also cap in smoke screens, which is annoying as hell. Light cruisers and heavy cruisers straddle the line between BBs and DDs. They're general purpose ships ( with some exceptions ) that allow for somewhat flexible play. Battleships can take and deal a lot of punishment, but their long reload times and so-so maneuverability means they can be destroyed by 'lesser' ships, if they isolate themselves and fail to play to their strengths. The carrier's job is either to prevent their team's capital ships from getting owned by planes, or to kill the enemy's battleships because the ones on their team fell asleep at the wheel. Sometimes both. Neither the carrier or the battleship can do their jobs without cruisers and destroyers doing their's, and they're really strong when they play together as a team. DDs aren't meant to go out by themselves and pick fights with capital ships. BBs and CA's entire gimmick is 'Lets put a bunch of guns on this thing and kill the poo poo out of those other floating fuckers over there'.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:16
|
|
|
I'm only up to tier 4 in the BB line but so far I'm doing way better in Cruisers than in BBs, so I must be doing something wrong. Every 30 seconds I get to shoot at something and if I'm lucky enough for my shots to RNG into their citadel the target gets hosed but more often than not I feel I would be doing more damage just shooting at them every 8 or so seconds instead.  People are saying the Kongo is good though, so maybe I'll have an epiphany once I get there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:21
|
|
|
NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:DDs aren't meant to go out by themselves and pick fights with capital ships. BBs and CA's entire gimmick is 'Lets put a bunch of guns on this thing and kill the poo poo out of those other floating fuckers over there'. Why even have destroyers if they aren't supposed to be able to wreck something? Japs have cruisers with plenty of guns and torpedoes on them already just delete DDs then.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:23
|
|
|
Keksen posted:I'm only up to tier 4 in the BB line but so far I'm doing way better in Cruisers than in BBs, so I must be doing something wrong. Every 30 seconds I get to shoot at something and if I'm lucky enough for my shots to RNG into their citadel the target gets hosed but more often than not I feel I would be doing more damage just shooting at them every 8 or so seconds instead. I'm in the same spot as you but I'm enjoying tier 4 BB much more than tier 3, mainly cuz of the extra range. I assume they only get better from here.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:24
|
|
|
santanotreal posted:I'm in the same spot as you but I'm enjoying tier 4 BB much more than tier 3, mainly cuz of the extra range. I assume they only get better from here. Also, in a BB, you really want to be planning your routes ahead, so that you can keep your battery pointed towards targets as constantly as possible, instead of having to keep turning the glacially slow turrets back and forth.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:35
|
|
|
I only had one game in my Sampson. But it was a good game.  No premium, either.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:36
|
|
|
BadLlama posted:Why even have destroyers if they aren't supposed to be able to wreck something? Japs have cruisers with plenty of guns and torpedoes on them already just delete DDs then. Uhhhh they can wreck things, you just have to play them with a bit of finesse? You might as well ask 'Why even have light tanks?' in games like War Thunder and World of Tanks. Their guns are often weaker than everything they fight, their armor is piss-poor, and they sacrifice everything for speed. Even the nastiest light tanks usually can't go toe to toe with something ( or shouldn't ), unless it can't be helped, you're fighting an idiot, or you're confident in your ability to win. And yet, they're really, really fun, and they can be amazing when they're played properly. I've had games where I've killed two BBs and wounded other ships in a DD. I've also had games where I took a risk ( or did something stupid ), and got wrecked in a single salvo. Even just ignoring their damage potential, destroyers can go places and fight in areas that are death traps for larger ships. They can get on the caps first. They can lay down screens for their team to advance in safety. If Wargaming is smart, they'll make both teams a pyramid where most ships are cruisers and destroyers, with a few CA, BB, and CV up top. It would probably make for more interesting and varied games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:37
|
|
|
NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:If Wargaming is smart, they'll make both teams a pyramid where most ships are cruisers and destroyers, with a few CA, BB, and CV up top. It would probably make for more interesting and varied games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:46
|
|
|
It'd also make for some really long BB queues.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:48
|
|
|
NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Uhhhh they can wreck things, you just have to play them with a bit of finesse? I wouldn't compare WoT lights to DDs beyond them both being small, lightly armored and few Hitpoints. Your previous post came off as DD's are useless and should just be support ships that sit back which if that is the case why even have them when cruisers are much better at supporting BB than destroyers? They get better longer range guns, more hit points and at lots of them have torpedoes themselves not to mention AA out their rear end.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:49
|
|
|
"You're a support ship" isn't a great excuse. Battleships are more effective at support than other classes - the biggest threat to a battleship by far is another battleship, and the best counter to that threat is, again, a battleship. It takes a better player to win against a battleship in a non battleship, and the better players are most useful in battleships where they can influence the game more. Destroyers aren't light tank equivalents. Light tanks don't have torpedoes, and light tanks don't need as much a skill mismatch to kill equal-matchmaker-weight tanks. James Garfield fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Mar 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2015 23:49
|
|
|
Nordick posted:Also, in a BB, you really want to be planning your routes ahead, so that you can keep your battery pointed towards targets as constantly as possible, instead of having to keep turning the glacially slow turrets back and forth. This is very important. You want to be at least thirty seconds if not a minute ahead planning turns. Having to mask half your battery for usually two salvoes hurts.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:06
|
|
|
How do you guys stand playing Battleships? I mean they look sweet and make big booms but I find them pretty boring to play. Also is there any sort of aim penalty for firing while moving or anything like that it doesn't seem like there is anything of that nature.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:11
|
|
|
Adventure Pigeon posted:They were supposed to on paper. The problem is, if destroyers don't counter battleships, then what does? Take two sides, one with 6 battleships and 2 destroyers, and one with 8 battleships. I would much rather be on the team with 6 battleships. Why? The DDs provide scouting information, ensuring your own side gets the favorable positioning and first shot. When the BBs start engaging each other, the DDs can sneak in and severely damage or sink enemy BBs. Plus DDs are good at capping, which is very important on at least half the maps. Looking at my own stats, my tier 7 DD gets an average of 888 xp per round while my tier 8 BB gets an average of 1,065 xp per round. So the difference is not that large.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:17
|
|
|
James Garfield posted:"You're a support ship" isn't a great excuse. Battleships are more effective at support than other classes - the biggest threat to a battleship by far is another battleship, and the best counter to that threat is, again, a battleship. You could say the same thing about CAs. Why even have them in the game? Why play them? They're objectively worse than battleships, but sit in similar roles. Every ship is a trade-away for something. BBs trade speed and flexibility for guns and armor. Cruisers straddle the middle ground. DDs go to the other extreme. Each have different ship abilities, and each has very specific things they're good at. If you don't like them, just play the ships you think are the best. It's wrong to say that BBs are everything. There are a number of maps with tons of islands, with cap zones amongst them. Destroyers excel in these areas. They can get to the cap first, take it, and deal a serious blow to any BB stupid enough to just sail straight into them. I like destroyers just fine, and I enjoy that they require a clever sort of gameplay to really make the most of them. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:19
|
|
|
Gamesguy posted:Take two sides, one with 6 battleships and 2 destroyers, and one with 8 battleships. I would much rather be on the team with 6 battleships. Why? The DDs provide scouting information, ensuring your own side gets the favorable positioning and first shot. When the BBs start engaging each other, the DDs can sneak in and severely damage or sink enemy BBs. Plus DDs are good at capping, which is very important on at least half the maps. The quality of a ship isn't really decided by exp, further, once the shooting starts ships become pretty visible so scouting isn't as beneficial. Balance was never very good in World of Tanks, except that eventually mediums did find a place, and I kinda see that repeating here on a more severe scale. Adventure Pigeon fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Mar 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:19
|
|
|
Destroyers technically do counter battleships, since they were originally meant to protect battleships from torpedo boats, hence "torpedo boat destroyer". Then they just made the destroyers into ocean going torpedo boats.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:31
|
|
|
Adventure Pigeon posted:The quality of a ship isn't really decided by exp, further, once the shooting starts ships become pretty visible so scouting isn't as beneficial. Balance was never very good in World of Tanks, except that eventually mediums did find a place, and I kinda see that repeating here on a more severe scale. Destroyers are very different from medium and light tanks. When I'm doing my job, I'm sinking at least one BB per game. The only time when I do poorly is when their cruisers and DDs are doing their jobs and manage to hunt me down before I can inflict much damage. I will say DDs feel a bit too weak right now due to the torpedo detection range nerf. Some sort of buff is needed to compensate if WG wants to keep the current detection range. In addition, destroyers should be better at hunting CVs than they currently are. Oh and once the shooting starts BBs will still disappear if you have no scouts btw. When they fire they become visible for 15-20 seconds but then disappear again. Given RoF and the time it takes to adjust aim. BBs that are unscouted can disengage and reengage at will, that gives the side with the scouts a massive advantage. The main issue I see is carrier planes are too good at scouting. Gamesguy fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Mar 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:32
|
|
|
Adventure Pigeon posted:once the shooting starts ships become pretty visible so scouting isn't as beneficial. Look at this wrong opinion.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:33
|
|
|
I've seen many matches where a DD makes it into the backfield and absolutely wrecks poo poo and the whole team is like how the hell did that happen?
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:38
|
|
|
Gamesguy posted:The main issue I see is carrier planes are too good at scouting. This is a huge issue with DD's. I have Sixth sense on my tier V DD and I am constantly spotted by airplanes flying everywhere so I am not even sneaky like I am supposed to be because planes flying 5km spot me. demonR6 posted:I've seen many matches where a DD makes it into the backfield and absolutely wrecks poo poo and the whole team is like how the hell did that happen? I have done this and it is a great feeling but a lot of poo poo has to go wrong on the other team and a lot of things have to go right for you to make it there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:38
|
|
|
BadLlama posted:This is a huge issue with DD's. I have Sixth sense on my tier V DD and I am constantly spotted by airplanes flying everywhere so I am not even sneaky like I am supposed to be because planes flying 5km spot me. Right, it doesn't even have to be a general nerf to plane vision. Just fighters really. If the CV pilot wants to divert half his firepower to keep a DD scouted, I'm ok with that. But fighters are often doing nothing anyways...
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 00:41
|
|
|
Kongo is the first battleship that doesn't have a glaring weakness. Kawachi is a slow pig with short range (the worst combo), and the Miyagi has too few and too inaccurate guns to land decent hits with any consistency. Kongo is fast, somewhat protected with a bit of AA, has enough guns to fire decent salvoes and overall isn't outright bad at anything. Fuso is slower but gives a dense 12 gun salute that fills the area you shoot. Nagato's a bit disappointing but only in comparison, Amagi's back to fast and a ton of gun, and Yamato's a ton of armor and a good gun layout.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 01:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 23:50 |
|
|
Destroyers and cruisers are more fun to play than battleships but they are significantly less effective. I don't know what's so hard about that, it's entirely okay to like playing something that isn't strong. Most of my games aren't in battleships. I would pick seven battleships and one destroyer over six battleships and two destroyers, without even thinking twice. I'd also pick eight battleships over any combination of battleships and cruisers, which is a bit of a problem if you think this game doesn't have ships that counter other ships. NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:You could say the same thing about CAs. Why even have them in the game? Why play them? They're objectively worse than battleships, but sit in similar roles.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2015 01:08
|
|