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Horrible Taste posted:The Potara earrings are stronger than the dance and give a bigger power boost to the resulting fusion. No, Goku says fusion wouldn't be enough. Goku also said it would be a good idea to leave the fate of the world up to an emotionally conflicted pre-teen then two eight year olds.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:54
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drrockso20 posted:Guys we all know that if Goku and Superman met they'd quickly become good friends, they're both too nice for there to be any other result Superman's a comicbook character, there's no way they'd not fight over a contrived misunderstanding for half an hour first before they buddied up
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Mar 17, 2015 22:55
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drrockso20 posted:Guys we all know that if Goku and Superman met they'd quickly become good friends, they're both too nice for there to be any other result Goku's good friends like to spar.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:55
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gently caress trophy 2k15 posted:No, Goku says fusion wouldn't be enough. Goku also said it would be a good idea to leave the fate of the world up to an emotionally conflicted pre-teen then two eight year olds. It's pretty clear from the context the show's implying none of their bullshit is going to work against Beerus. It even introduced God-Kai as a concept just so they couldn't win with some Final Spirit Bomb x1000 super attack either
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Mar 17, 2015 22:57
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drrockso20 posted:Guys we all know that if Goku and Superman met they'd quickly become good friends, they're both too nice for there to be any other result BattleCattle posted:Goku's good friends like to spar. These two get it. 
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Mar 17, 2015 22:57
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TheKingofSprings posted:You are massively underestimating just how loving stupid Superman is at his most powerful. Well, Silver Age, sure, he was sneezing universes away, but ever since, he's been pretty toned down and there are dozens of people in the DCU who are on his level and it's not a big deal. Superman Prime from DC One Million could probably put up a good fight against Cell, but would still lose ultimately.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:57
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TheKingofSprings posted:You are massively underestimating just how loving stupid Superman is at his most powerful. Seriously, Superman is goddamn insane. Dude is not balanced one bit when he's trying. I don't give a gently caress about the death battle, but I think it'd honestly come to a standstill. We all know Saitama would punk both of them. WickedHate posted:Well, Silver Age, sure, he was sneezing universes away, but ever since, he's been pretty toned down and there are dozens of people in the DCU who are on his level and it's not a big deal. It's hard to say "oh well back in the day he'd be great but today he sucks" when a dozen different authors write his comics. One might have Superman at his best, a month later he whines about not being strong enough. Goku has the advantage of being written by one dude, even if Toriyama is forgetful as hell. You've got to assume the best for Superman if you want an honest comparison. The whole goddamn concept is dumb tho. Arsonist Daria fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 22:57
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Batman could beat Goku given enough preparation time spent in the Hyperbolic Chamber.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:59
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Maybe Goku could teach Superman martial arts.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:01
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Goku wouldn't kill superman because he loves having strong opponents and would want to fight him again. He was willing to spare Vegeta and even Freiza.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:12
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Superman would break Goku's neck
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Mar 17, 2015 23:13
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Could Superman beat Whis though?
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Mar 17, 2015 23:15
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Superman would break Goku's neck Naw, he wouldn't do it even if he could.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:15
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Raxivace posted:Could Superman beat Whis though? Impossible.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:15
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Superman's problem is that, at least right now, he does not resonate on a deep level with anyone under the age of 30. I mean, sure, it can be fun to go out and see the latest Superman movie at the movie theater, but Supes himself is not what he used to be. Per comichron.com, 823,829 copies of "Adventures of Superman", Superman's primary monthly ongoing, were paid for in 1965. In 2014, Superman's primary monthly ongoing sold only 97,166 copies. Almost everyone has some sort of fictional world that was very influential on them in their formative years. The kind of thing that, even with all its flaws exposed, still evokes feelings of happiness, even affection. While I don't have raw data on this assumption like I did for the sales figures, I'm going to say that the number of people who feel a closeness with the Dragonball franchise is much larger than the number of people who feel the same for the Superman franchise. Why? Thesis: Superman is less appealing to modern audiences than Goku because of two unfortunate flaws: first, his core qualities are tied to a presentation that is not as appealing or relevant to modern audiences; second, there are huge pressures preventing any change to the fundamental aspects of Superman's presentation. Umm poo poo, I feel an effortpost coming on. I think I need to compose the rest in notepad first.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:15
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Xibanya posted:Superman's problem is that, at least right now, he does not resonate on a deep level with anyone under the age of 30. I mean, sure, it can be fun to go out and see the latest Superman movie at the movie theater, but Supes himself is not what he used to be. Per comichron.com, 823,829 copies of "Adventures of Superman", Superman's primary monthly ongoing, were paid for in 1965. In 2014, Superman's primary monthly ongoing sold only 97,166 copies. Almost everyone has some sort of fictional world that was very influential on them in their formative years. The kind of thing that, even with all its flaws exposed, still evokes feelings of happiness, even affection. While I don't have raw data on this assumption like I did for the sales figures, I'm going to say that the number of people who feel a closeness with the Dragonball franchise is much larger than the number of people who feel the same for the Superman franchise. This is seriously a cool and interesting synopsis, if you wish to continue please do.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:18
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I just want to say this discussion has been legitimately fascinating. It's kinda heartwarming that opinions on DBZ are more or less universal.Endorph posted:Kai did really good ratings. The problem was that they were expecting ridiculous ratings. They were expecting it to do One Piece numbers, even though Kai is just an HD rebranding of a 20 year old show. That would explain a lot. Hearing that something DBZ related was considered a failure in Japan without context made me think it must be irrelevant there or something. mycot fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 23:19
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One thing is worth mentioning, I think, is that people will watch Superman alongside other characters, like in that Justice League show, or as a guest on a series like Static Shock, or in games like that Mortal Kombat crossover, or in the upcoming crossover film with Batman, even if they don't go out of their way to read his comics.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:21
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If the voice of a strange man suddenly echoed through the collective consciousness of humanity, telling them to raise their hands and give their energy, how many would do it?
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Mar 17, 2015 23:23
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Raxivace posted:One thing is worth mentioning, I think, is that people will watch Superman alongside other characters, like in that Justice League show, or as a guest on a series like Static Shock, or in games like that Mortal Kombat crossover, or in the upcoming crossover film with Batman, even if they don't go out of their way to read his comics. I would argue that the same could be said of Goku, it's just not the way it is. Which is a shame, because I'd loving love to see Goku in Smash Bros or something (don't think Mortal Kombat would be a good fit). BattleCattle posted:If the voice of a strange man suddenly echoed through the collective consciousness of humanity, telling them to raise their hands and give their energy, how many would do it? I sure would.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:24
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BattleCattle posted:If the voice of a strange man suddenly echoed through the collective consciousness of humanity, telling them to raise their hands and give their energy, how many would do it? And when your buddy beside you did it, he immediately became exhausted and drained of energy. Then another angry strange man started screaming at you telepathically "Why Aren't You Raising Your Hands?"?
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Mar 17, 2015 23:25
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BattleCattle posted:If the voice of a strange man suddenly echoed through the collective consciousness of humanity, telling them to raise their hands and give their energy, how many would do it? Are you trying to imply there are goons who would not raise their hands and yell 'hail satan' at the slightest provocation?
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Mar 17, 2015 23:25
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I think the problem is that, to the layman, giving your energy to Goku so he can fight a threat you can't even conceive of is indistinguishable to giving your energy to Queen Beryl so she can unleash the Nega-Verse. He says he's doing to save the planet, but who even is this guy? Why does everyone want your goddamn energy?
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Mar 17, 2015 23:32
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YggiDee posted:I think the problem is that, to the layman, giving your energy to Goku so he can fight a threat you can't even conceive of is indistinguishable to giving your energy to Queen Beryl so she can unleash the Nega-Verse. He says he's doing to save the planet, but who even is this guy? Why does everyone want your goddamn energy? I'd do it either way, just on the off chance it was Goku. ...Turns out, all Beryl had to do was ask nicely.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:33
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Dragon Ball's story is also finite and has an ending. The manga ended with the Buu arc years and years ago. However, people keep writing Superman comics for years, and comic publishers can't really make any permanent changes to a character, because it will be undone later. What's so cool about Dragon Ball is Goku starts the story as a little kid, and ends it as a grandfather. Characters change over the span of decades. On the flip side, Spider-man made a deal with the devil to undo his marriage because when Joe Quesada was a kid, Spidey wasn't married. American superheroes can't grow old and retire - it's bad business sense and they're owned by Marvel and DC for the most part, not their creators. In fact, Toriyama had to really fight to get them to allow him to make Goku grow up.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:36
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Actually I think I've figured out the real problem. Is Goku, in fact, yelling all this in Japanese? That would slow things down.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:36
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I mean, poo poo, he asked. May as well! If it dooms the world, well at least politeness is a pretty funny reason for a species to die.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:36
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YggiDee posted:Actually I think I've figured out the real problem. Is Goku, in fact, yelling all this in Japanese? That would slow things down. Good question, does King Kai translate things?
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Mar 17, 2015 23:39
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Gammatron 64 posted:Dragon Ball's story is also finite and has an ending. The manga ended with the Buu arc years and years ago. However, people keep writing Superman comics for years, and comic publishers can't really make any permanent changes to a character, because it will be undone later. A Marvel or DC universe where heros actually age and die sounds like a pretty intriguing concept. Some new heroes take up the old mantles, others invent themselves. Naw let's just shove a billion new ideas into a world already saturated with old favorites, I'm sure the new ones will go over.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:40
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BattleCattle posted:Good question, does King Kai translate things? He's too busy taking his driver's test to care
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Mar 17, 2015 23:40
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...When was the last time Batman actually solved a crime where he didn't punch a man?
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Mar 17, 2015 23:45
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:A Marvel or DC universe where heros actually age and die sounds like a pretty intriguing concept. Some new heroes take up the old mantles, others invent themselves. That's essentially the issue. They're trapped in what has been famously dubbed 'Marvel Time', so heroes can't age and stay in infinite limbo. There's also the fact that it's harder for newer characters to stand out in the scene when you're competing with mainstays right out the gate; feels like they're bogarting the mike from the new class from making waves. That's tough to compete with even in the best of times.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:45
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there's a reason DC comics has had like five reboots in the past decade. The only way to make changes to the characters is to completely reset the story.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:46
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isn't DBZ literally about a guy who keeps overshadowing the young upstarts because fans like the first guy more?
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Mar 17, 2015 23:47
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Marvel has a ton of good comics out right now and you guys suck.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:47
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Does Marvel even have anyone who could fight DBZ level guys? Also while I've never been big into Superman, golden age heroes can be pretty ruthless so if he saw Goku as a real threat he could win. Who would win between Martian Manhunter and Piccolo? vvvv I'm still waiting on that rematch
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Mar 17, 2015 23:48
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Countblanc posted:isn't DBZ literally about a guy who keeps overshadowing the young upstarts because fans like the first guy more?
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Mar 17, 2015 23:49
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Parrotine posted:That's essentially the issue. They're trapped in what has been famously dubbed 'Marvel Time', so heroes can't age and stay in infinite limbo. It's certainly hard to move on once you've got a classic, but eventually people are going to stop give a poo poo about the old guys. There's a reason why people have started gravitating toward newer, less popular characters like Squirrel Girl. Countblanc posted:isn't DBZ literally about a guy who keeps overshadowing the young upstarts because fans like the first guy more? Sure, but it's not like people don't complain about it and at least it was one author who admitted Goku remained the hero because he couldn't write Gohan as the protagonist.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:50
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:A Marvel or DC universe where heros actually age and die sounds like a pretty intriguing concept. Some new heroes take up the old mantles, others invent themselves. I really like the idea of superhero legacies. Bucky Barnes was a fantastic Captain America and Dick Grayson was a fresh new take on Batman. Imagine Peter Parker getting too old for superhero business, settling down, having children and names Miles Morales as his successor to the mantle of Spider-man. Decades later, Miles himself has grown and we get another new Spider-man. I would love that, but writers want to write their favorite characters from when they were kids, and publishers would never allow that as its a huge risk. Such a thing is almost always undone. They almost kind of did this with both the Flash and Green Lantern, but eventually they just brought back Barry Allen and Hal Jordan. Even DBZ kind of failed at this, because Gohan was going to take Goku's place, but got completely jobbed last minute in the Buu saga and Goku had to save the day.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:51
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:It's certainly hard to move on once you've got a classic, but eventually people are going to stop give a poo poo about the old guys. There's a reason why people have started gravitating toward newer, less popular characters like Squirrel Girl. Given that the marvel movie franchise is the most successful franchise in history, I don't see that happening anytime soon. EDIT- ^ DC's legacy stuff back in the 90's was great, too bad they hosed it up and had to bring back hal jordan and barry.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:52
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