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Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx
Excuse me please but the correct transliteration according to his own passport is Gathafi. This is ruining my immersion.
Please correct this immediately. Thank you.

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Walton Simons
May 16, 2010

ELECTRONIC OLD MEN RUNNING THE WORLD
Is there a good rule of thumb for when your army is big enough to attack the other guy's? 'Slightly bigger than' didn't do it for me.

dj_clawson
Jan 12, 2004

We are all sinners in the eyes of these popsicle sticks.

Walton Simons posted:

Is there a good rule of thumb for when your army is big enough to attack the other guy's? 'Slightly bigger than' didn't do it for me.

Couple things to take into account:
- Morale. Where are they and where are you on that bar?
- Do you have awesome commanders leading? Because that's a HUGE bonus over the AI
- Are you attacking or defending? Defenders usually have a bonus
- Are you in the mountains? Get the gently caress out of the mountains. No one wants to be there. You will die of attrition.

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


Walton Simons posted:

Is there a good rule of thumb for when your army is big enough to attack the other guy's? 'Slightly bigger than' didn't do it for me.

Remember to account for terrain and commander traits. Don't attack across rivers or into mountains or hills and "slightly bigger than" ought to do it as long as you have commanders with the right traits in the right slots (e.g. have dudes with Flanker on the flanks, Inspiring Leader in the center, Holy Warrior when you're fighting heathens, Rough Terrain Expert when you're in the mountains, etc.)

Or just load up on Knight retinues like I did and wreck face even when you're outnumbered 3 to 1:

Mr.Morgenstern
Sep 14, 2012

dj_clawson posted:

Couple things to take into account:
- Morale. Where are they and where are you on that bar?
- Do you have awesome commanders leading? Because that's a HUGE bonus over the AI
- Are you attacking or defending? Defenders usually have a bonus
- Are you in the mountains? Get the gently caress out of the mountains. No one wants to be there. You will die of attrition.

Unless you are the defender and you are outnumbered. Then mountains are awesome.

Walton Simons
May 16, 2010

ELECTRONIC OLD MEN RUNNING THE WORLD
Good stuff, thanks. I'll make sure my commanders are up to snuff and take more notice of where I'm attacking next time I fabricate a CB.

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


Mr.Morgenstern posted:

Unless you are the defender and you are outnumbered. Then mountains are awesome.

Yeah, defending in mountains is an insane force multiplier, especially if you have the right commanders and a lot of pikes.

dj_clawson
Jan 12, 2004

We are all sinners in the eyes of these popsicle sticks.

Mr.Morgenstern posted:

Unless you are the defender and you are outnumbered. Then mountains are awesome.

Or you have "mountain terrain expert."

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X

Mr.Morgenstern posted:

Unless you are the defender and you are outnumbered. Then mountains are awesome.

This is how I managed to destroy the Khagan's 125K camel archer deathstack with my 75K army in the Great Crusade For Hungary.

Coward
Sep 10, 2009

I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure



.

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Wait.

How did you turn into a merchant republic without reforming the faith?

It's slightly game-y, but someone pointed out to me that you can always use the decision menu to convert to the religion of a Concubine. Thankfully as the Canary Islands I was able to do a lot of raiding and I managed to capture some women who were Sunni. I changed over, upgraded to a Merchant Republic, then used as many decisions as I could to get up to the 1000 Piety (didn't take too long) I needed to use another decision to convert to the religion of my Capital so I could go back to being West African. That's why I mentioned the two Patrician families that are Muslim; holdovers from the change that I couldn't do too much about until I could reform the faith.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

Coward posted:

It's slightly game-y, but someone pointed out to me that you can always use the decision menu to convert to the religion of a Concubine. Thankfully as the Canary Islands I was able to do a lot of raiding and I managed to capture some women who were Sunni. I changed over, upgraded to a Merchant Republic, then used as many decisions as I could to get up to the 1000 Piety (didn't take too long) I needed to use another decision to convert to the religion of my Capital so I could go back to being West African. That's why I mentioned the two Patrician families that are Muslim; holdovers from the change that I couldn't do too much about until I could reform the faith.

You can always have their children educated by tutors of your faith to make them proper West African pagans.

Militant Lesbian
Oct 3, 2002

Eric the Mauve posted:

This is how I managed to destroy the Khagan's 125K camel archer deathstack with my 75K army in the Great Crusade For Hungary.

I managed to drive off the Aztec invasion within two years with my ~112k troops (including mercs, retinues, and holy order) to their 2x100k special event troops by being canny with leaders and terrain.


Not bad for an ironman Mali game; Emperor Dre don't take no poo poo from scrubs. :getin:

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
What the hell happened to Arabia?

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


Achievement Unlocked: Viking Ummah

Walton Simons
May 16, 2010

ELECTRONIC OLD MEN RUNNING THE WORLD
Thanks to your tips, I conquered Angouleme and it ended with my mother in law in charge. I could have sworn I'd get it but never mind, I'll take more care next time and at least I now have an ally for the forseeable future as my kinsman is the heir.

Coward
Sep 10, 2009

I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure



.

Torrannor posted:

You can always have their children educated by tutors of your faith to make them proper West African pagans.

If we were simply feudal, that would've been fine and I could've targeted heirs. But with Merchant Republics only the oldest family members are going to end up becoming Patrician, so you have to keep constantly checking their courts for every single male that's at least 6 years old and using up educators to teach them, and if those people don't have Gregarious/Diligent the penalties for conversions to unreformed faiths make it more difficult to convert them and you end up wasting a lot of time. I tried for a while, and there was a period of I think three years where everyone was happily West African, but they went back to being Muslims after that and I had to say bollocks to it and wait to reform the faith.

Also, somehow one of them managed to marry a French Countess non-matrilineally and one of the Patricians ended up being a French Catholic for a while. Thankfully that branch of that famiily lost their County in a claim war so we're all back to being one big happy (newly Reformed) West African family. We are the Happy Mandés.

Coward fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Mar 18, 2015

Coward
Sep 10, 2009

I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure



.

HotCanadianChick posted:

I managed to drive off the Aztec invasion within two years with my ~112k troops (including mercs, retinues, and holy order) to their 2x100k special event troops by being canny with leaders and terrain.


Not bad for an ironman Mali game; Emperor Dre don't take no poo poo from scrubs. :getin:

Holy poo poo, nice!

How did your game go? Did you use the 500 prestige Tribal Armies to storm up the coast? Did you have a problem with an Umayyad Hispanic Empire, or did you shatter them before they could blob up?

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

Walton Simons posted:

Good stuff, thanks. I'll make sure my commanders are up to snuff and take more notice of where I'm attacking next time I fabricate a CB.

Pay a bit of attention to composition too - if you're playing a pagan you might have a lot of troops but the vast majority of them are going to be light infantry, which are basically filler troops. Feudal/Merchant Republic characters will have a more balanced troop composition, but you should still probably just mentally subtract the number of light infantry in a stack from the total size of that stack to get a better idea of how strong they REALLY are.

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
It's kind of fun having a patrician or two of a different religion anyways.

reagan
Apr 29, 2008

by Lowtax
Any tips for a newbie? I am beyond overwhelmed, despite doing the tutorials. One of the early posts said to try playing as Ireland, but even that was too much for me. Does a person just have to jump in and stick with it?

Nuclear War
Nov 7, 2012

You're a pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty girl
Figured you guys might get a kick out of this:

http://www.dagbladet.no/2015/03/17/nyheter/innenriks/arkeologi/vikinger/gravhauger/38257994/ its an article (in Norwegian, but the picture's the good part) about a ring that was found in a viking tomb from the ninth century that was recently examined with an electronmicroscope and found to have the words 'for allah' inscribed on it. Pretty cool

dj_clawson
Jan 12, 2004

We are all sinners in the eyes of these popsicle sticks.

reagan posted:

Any tips for a newbie? I am beyond overwhelmed, despite doing the tutorials. One of the early posts said to try playing as Ireland, but even that was too much for me. Does a person just have to jump in and stick with it?

Watch the LPs on Youtube. They are long, but that's what it takes to learn the game. A lot of them are geared towards instruction.

Coward
Sep 10, 2009

I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure



.
The Tutorial Megathread is pretty good for learning a lot of the basics and understanding how certain things fit together:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3559664

You'll be surprised how quickly you pick up the flow of it after you've had a couple of fresh starts.

verbal enema
May 23, 2009

onlymarfans.com

Nuclear War posted:

Figured you guys might get a kick out of this:

http://www.dagbladet.no/2015/03/17/nyheter/innenriks/arkeologi/vikinger/gravhauger/38257994/ its an article (in Norwegian, but the picture's the good part) about a ring that was found in a viking tomb from the ninth century that was recently examined with an electronmicroscope and found to have the words 'for allah' inscribed on it. Pretty cool

This is wicked cool

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009

by FactsAreUseless

reagan posted:

Any tips for a newbie? I am beyond overwhelmed, despite doing the tutorials. One of the early posts said to try playing as Ireland, but even that was too much for me. Does a person just have to jump in and stick with it?

arumba's tutorial series on youtube is the best imo, but the game has a built in tutorial in leon now that i've heard is pretty good.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

reagan posted:

Any tips for a newbie? I am beyond overwhelmed, despite doing the tutorials. One of the early posts said to try playing as Ireland, but even that was too much for me. Does a person just have to jump in and stick with it?

The game is actually a lot simpler than it looks at first glance. The thing about it is that a lot of the stuff in the interface involves a bunch of systems that you probably don't have to know about early on, and depending on what you're playing as, ever, but it doesn't make it very clear which stuff you should be focusing on. For example, the trade tab in the county holdings window is absolutely not something you need to pay attention to if you aren't playing as a Merchant Republic, but it's probably one of the first things you're going to see if you're just clicking around seeing what everything is.

A few things that can help to start out:
-Assign your Steward to collect taxes, your Marshal to train troops, and your Spymaster to scheme, all in your capital. Assign your chancellor to fabricate a claim on a neighbour's title (try to find either the weakest one, or one that is part of the same duchy as you so you can move towards forming it if it doesn't already exist). Assign your Chaplain to improve religious relations in either your capital or Rome, depending on whether you want to get taxes/troops from your religious vassals, or make the Pope like you. Both are useful but neither are really critical early on so just pick whichever sounds nicer to you.

-Most early conflicts are going to be solved with mercenaries. Even the cheapest company will probably be three times the size of your own demense levies, and thus most of your enemies as well. Don't hire them until you've got at least twice the base cost to hire them saved up, as they have expensive monthly upkeep costs and can turn against you if you run out of money.

-In general you can ignore most of what's going on in the rest of the world when you're a count or duke somewhere like Ireland. Focus on just the counties in your neighbouring duchies or your local kingdom and don't worry about anything else. Try to arrange marriages between your sons and the daughters of your neighbouring lords (or matrilineal marriages between your daughters and their sons, but they're usually less willing to go for it) to get claims on their titles into your family. If you're lucky, one of those wives/husbands might end up inheriting a title (the AI won't usually marry off someone who's next in line for a title, but once they're married they may end up in that position if their older siblings die off). Ideally, it'll be the spouse of your OWN heir, so you can end up controlling both your current titles and the titles the spouse inherited just by waiting a couple generations. The long game is essentially to engineer scenarios where this happens rather than just leaving it up to chance.

-If they don't end up inheriting a title directly, they'll still get a claim on the title, which may be strong or weak depending on how far down the line of succession they were. What you can do in that scenario is press the claim for them and fight a war to install them in that position. From there you can basically repeat the process, except that they'll usually be much more amenable to helping you out because you pressed their claim, and ESPECIALLY if they're in your dynasty. At the very least, you can get an ally out of it who will help you out in other wars.

-Really the basic cycle of the game is "get claim -> declare war -> win war -> create any new titles you qualify for -> repeat". Eventually it gets more complex than that, but early on that's all you really need to do.

Militant Lesbian
Oct 3, 2002

Coward posted:

Holy poo poo, nice!

How did your game go? Did you use the 500 prestige Tribal Armies to storm up the coast? Did you have a problem with an Umayyad Hispanic Empire, or did you shatter them before they could blob up?

The Umayyads around Marrakech got into a huge shitpile of decadence revolts and I managed to nibble away a few bits from the main chunk of Umayyads and used county conquests on the counties that ended up independent after the revolts while I stuck my diplomat in the Umayyad capital to keep the main chunk happy enough with me to keep him from aiding the little fish until I got big enough to start declaring on the main chunk itself. They eventually just flopped beneath me and the Spanish Catholics, and by the time I had finished them off, I had my empire and more land and troops than any of the individual Spanish kingdoms/duchies at the time. Gradually worked my way across Southern Europe eating up bits and pieces here and there until I had Aquitaine, Burgundy, and Italy, then went for the jugular and holy warred the Pope while the Germans were trying to fend off a Slavic holy war, and took Rome while the Slavs took eastern Germany. Losing Rome along with multiple holy wars pretty much broke Catholicism's back re: moral authority.

Captain Beans
Aug 5, 2004

Whar be the beans?
Hair Elf

reagan posted:

Any tips for a newbie? I am beyond overwhelmed, despite doing the tutorials. One of the early posts said to try playing as Ireland, but even that was too much for me. Does a person just have to jump in and stick with it?

As other have mentioned having a guide is very helpful when first starting out. Just knowing 'what do I do' is kind of overwhelming at first.

LP videos have already been posted but in case you want to follow posts and pictures instead of video: http://lparchive.org/Crusader-Kings-2/
A lot has changed in patches since that LP was made, but it gives a nice follow along guide still.

verbal enema
May 23, 2009

onlymarfans.com
Scott Manley's lp of his King of Ireland play through is on YouTube and is very good. Its only about an hour and a half but it taught me a lot after I did the tutorial. I've never touched the Leon in game tutorial since I'm scared of being surrounded by things. I just hang out in Ireland all day.

dj_clawson
Jan 12, 2004

We are all sinners in the eyes of these popsicle sticks.

verbal enema posted:

Scott Manley's lp of his King of Ireland play through is on YouTube and is very good. Its only about an hour and a half but it taught me a lot after I did the tutorial. I've never touched the Leon in game tutorial since I'm scared of being surrounded by things. I just hang out in Ireland all day.

I am not a big fan of the Leon playthrough. You've got wars with sparring kingdoms almost immediately and a gavelkind system you have no idea how to deal with. Ireland's the way to go.

verbal enema
May 23, 2009

onlymarfans.com

dj_clawson posted:

I am not a big fan of the Leon playthrough. You've got wars with sparring kingdoms almost immediately and a gavelkind system you have no idea how to deal with. Ireland's the way to go.

I've learned more by doing the Ol Duchy of Mumu games than anything.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

The Cheshire Cat posted:

-Most early conflicts are going to be solved with mercenaries. Even the cheapest company will probably be three times the size of your own demense levies, and thus most of your enemies as well. Don't hire them until you've got at least twice the base cost to hire them saved up, as they have expensive monthly upkeep costs and can turn against you if you run out of money.

Is this still true if you're doing something like the Mumu start now that there are earlier start dates? In 1066 most holdings will have been upgraded to provide ~1k troops out the gate and it will be a long time until you can afford to hire any mercs.

EDIT: one of the earliest lessons I learned was patience. Sometimes there just won't be anything going on other than waiting for a scheme to go through or someone to die naturally so you can inherit their lands.

verbal enema
May 23, 2009

onlymarfans.com
I think Seduction exists for that reason sometimes. Nothing really happening? gently caress everyone and claim the opportunistic ones stab or war from there

Coward
Sep 10, 2009

I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure



.

Voyager I posted:

EDIT: one of the earliest lessons I learned was patience. Sometimes there just won't be anything going on other than waiting for a scheme to go through or someone to die naturally so you can inherit their lands.

Yep, this is pretty huge. Sometimes you will be in a situation where you can't really do too much. But that's okay, there is likely to be some huge turnover or other event you can take advantage of somewhere down the line.

My Canary Islands game took a while before I was able to opportunistically take advantage of a Crusade on the large Umayyad Empire to grab some land, which I probably wouldn't have been able to properly do if I hadn't been spending the time upgrading all my holdings and just getting ready. This double attack has basically started something I'm expecting to be an Umayyad death spiral, especially when the Badshah decided to go for a Holy War against France (which is already eating up Germany) rather than against Portugal (which is just Portugal and still suffering New Ruler penalties on everything it has).

Preechr
May 19, 2009

Proud member of the Pony-Brony Alliance for Obama as President
Are retinues supposed to lose their capital tech bonus when you merge them?

Walton Simons
May 16, 2010

ELECTRONIC OLD MEN RUNNING THE WORLD
I managed to take control of another county for myself! Unfortunately I have a stewardship of 0 so my demense is now too big. I assume the obvious thing to do is give my heir the landed title and when my count dies (he's 65 now), my heir and her rather higher stewardship stat will get both counties?

Also, I can't do Primogeniture because of French law. Who exactly can vote and be voted for in Elective Gavelkind? I have a very small family, a wife and two daughters of 15 and 1. I would think it almost a foregone conclusion that the elder daughter will get the whole kingdom if I'm in charge of one county and she's a vassal to me but I'm not sure I fully get it.

BurntCornMuffin
Jan 9, 2009


Walton Simons posted:

I managed to take control of another county for myself! Unfortunately I have a stewardship of 0 so my demense is now too big. I assume the obvious thing to do is give my heir the landed title and when my count dies (he's 65 now), my heir and her rather higher stewardship stat will get both counties?

Also, I can't do Primogeniture because of French law. Who exactly can vote and be voted for in Elective Gavelkind? I have a very small family, a wife and two daughters of 15 and 1. I would think it almost a foregone conclusion that the elder daughter will get the whole kingdom if I'm in charge of one county and she's a vassal to me but I'm not sure I fully get it.


Agnatic or Agnatic-Cognatic? That part is super important if you don't have a son, because if it's the former, your daughters aren't getting poo poo.

Walton Simons
May 16, 2010

ELECTRONIC OLD MEN RUNNING THE WORLD
Pretty sure it's Agnatic-Cognatic, I'd better check when I get home.

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx
The Myth of the Khazar Conversion - Shaul Stampfer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYbycYgjnSU

Sorry, no Jews.

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Tricky Dick Nixon
Jul 26, 2010

by Nyc_Tattoo

Riso posted:

The Myth of the Khazar Conversion - Shaul Stampfer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYbycYgjnSU

Sorry, no Jews.

I mean the theory that the Ashkenazis are descended from the Khazars is dubious at best, but we have the Khazar Correspondence and a lot of other evidence that the Khazar ruling class converted, though the people as ever remained multi-confessional like the early Mongol Empire.

e: Wow the premise here is pretty racist: "This tribal guy writing in beautiful Hebrew, something's gotta be wrong." Many steppe leaders were extremely cultured. There's a lot of nitpicking here trying to come to the conclusion it's wrong. It's worth taking a critical look at this but the Khazar Correspondence isn't the sole body of evidence. The claim that there wasn't any Khazar scholarship on this either is wrong.

Tricky Dick Nixon fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Mar 18, 2015

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