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The reason the ending works is because nothing else in either game is like that, it'd get dull quick otherwise.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:28
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Zaphod42 posted:That stupid prison break level was cool but man, I just could not d like 4 throws in the tiiiiiny amount of time you have to respond consistently. I'd get like 3 of the assholes down and then on the 4th one my guy would just drop his weapon rather than throw it, and then the guy jumps on top of me. Not fun. Stupid. Frustrating. The thing about those guys, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, they're not "special enemies". They're regular prisoners that start unarmed, and when the prisoner enemies are unarmed that's their default unarmed behavior. You can see their routine change if you throw an item at them and then let them pick it up, they'll become just another armed enemy that you can kill normally. There's not really a whole lot of incentive to do that, it's just a quirk of that particular enemy. Also I don't ever remember a time when more than one of those guys charged me at once, so I don't know what you were doing to get 4 of them on you at a time.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:38
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Improbable Lobster posted:Weapons are chosen when you load the level and aren't changed by restarts. HLM1 had random pathing, yes, but it was mostly confined. Within one room or a small area or whatever. In 2, there's a few enemies that can path to completely different spots, such as one gun dude in the last screen of the boat level, and it's all RNG. Really hoping that gets changed, even if it's just a simple box outside of which they can't stray, for example. Will also be good for the level editor, to just be able to have enemies move randomly, but within certain confines.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:40
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King Vidiot posted:The thing about those guys, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, they're not "special enemies". They're regular prisoners that start unarmed, and when the prisoner enemies are unarmed that's their default unarmed behavior. You can see their routine change if you throw an item at them and then let them pick it up, they'll become just another armed enemy that you can kill normally. There's not really a whole lot of incentive to do that, it's just a quirk of that particular enemy. IIRC the last 2 rooms of the level have multiple but I was never in a situation where more than 2 were chasing me.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:41
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Jizz Festival posted:a retard with a birthday cake Don't sign your posts
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Mar 18, 2015 16:53
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Man, that final son level is loving scary. Surreal poo poo like that always gives me the heebie jeebies. I liked the game, though! I've been listening to the soundtrack almost nonstop.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:59
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Serperoth posted:HLM1 had random pathing, yes, but it was mostly confined. Within one room or a small area or whatever. In 2, there's a few enemies that can path to completely different spots, such as one gun dude in the last screen of the boat level, and it's all RNG. Really hoping that gets changed, even if it's just a simple box outside of which they can't stray, for example. Will also be good for the level editor, to just be able to have enemies move randomly, but within certain confines. My favorite bit of AI pathfinding fuckery was on floor 2 of Withdrawal, when I popped into the meth lab to try and lure a gun guy out and he somehow lost sight of me in two seconds and shut the door on himself, and the second gun guy got alerted too. So both of them start going into random wandering mode, bouncing off the walls and table, and then make their way to the wall opposite the door (in the line-of-sight of the fire extinguisher). Then they're joined by a wandering shotgun guy from the room on the right, so then I have three fuckers on the opposite side of the extinguisher and I can't risk opening the door.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:03
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Ultimately the game is just too buggy for how perfect it wants you to be. If AI was more consistent, if controls were better, OR if the game was more forgiving, it'd be better. Either of those options. As-is though its just too drat frustrating. Like I feel the current mode should be "medium", and there should be an "easy" that has like 1/4 the dogs and 1/4 the fatmen. I guess I'm a baby. Jizz Festival posted:What? You can melee those guys, no throwing needed. I tried that but they were way too drat fast. They hop right on you. I tried it several times but throwing was the only thing that worked. King Vidiot posted:The thing about those guys, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, they're not "special enemies". They're regular prisoners that start unarmed, and when the prisoner enemies are unarmed that's their default unarmed behavior. You can see their routine change if you throw an item at them and then let them pick it up, they'll become just another armed enemy that you can kill normally. There's not really a whole lot of incentive to do that, it's just a quirk of that particular enemy. No not 4 at one time, but 4 in a single level that you have to complete all of in one go or you have to start the drat level over again. Which is very frustrating. Another thing is that those guys were BUGGY AS gently caress for me. Literally 50% of the time, they wouldn't agro. They'd just stand there and stare at me. The only way to get them to agro would be to walk up to melee range, and then they'd hop on you and you're dead. Its loving bullshit. Yeah, the guy in the hallway if he doesn't agro, you can just throw at him, but the guys in the cells? You can't shoot at them, they duck. If you stay outside, they bug up and never come outside. You have to walk into the cell and then you have all of .2 milliseconds to respond before they kill you. Its horseshit. Improbable Lobster posted:IIRC the last 2 rooms of the level have multiple but I was never in a situation where more than 2 were chasing me. Nah its never more than 2 at once, I just mean in the whole level. Although 2 at once is pretty hosed up already.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZiL2upBBn8 I never want to play Corey's section again holy poo poo
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Mar 18, 2015 17:12
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Zaphod42 posted:Another thing is that those guys were BUGGY AS gently caress for me. Literally 50% of the time, they wouldn't agro. They'd just stand there and stare at me. The only way to get them to agro would be to walk up to melee range, and then they'd hop on you and you're dead. Its loving bullshit. I think I had this problem once, and all I did was crack the guy in the face with a pipe as I opened his cell door, and that was after trying everything I could to just walk in front of his window to lure him out. Every other unarmed prisoner I could generally throw a thing at from outside aggro.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:18
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Roll dodge seems ultimately useless because the only time it's really effective is when you're already within range where you could kill a gun enemy before they could kill you. If you dodge outside of that range, you'll dodge the first shot but by the time you recover the enemy will already squeeze off the second shot that kills you.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:18
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MAKE WAY NEW STARS posted:Completed the original and played through the first 20 levels of this one on vita without knowing about lock on for guns. i beat both without knowing about lock on lol.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:20
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King Vidiot posted:Roll dodge seems ultimately useless because the only time it's really effective is when you're already within range where you could kill a gun enemy before they could kill you. If you dodge outside of that range, you'll dodge the first shot but by the time you recover the enemy will already squeeze off the second shot that kills you. It's only really useful against the 2 shot shotguns or to quickly jump in a room to hide, yeah. It reaches peak uselessness against a machine gun.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:20
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Zaphod42 posted:I tried that but they were way too drat fast. They hop right on you. I tried it several times but throwing was the only thing that worked. You have to time it a bit earlier than other guys, but it's not that hard once you get it down. Easier than throwing poo poo.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:22
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Getting past the mechanical elements, the story was pretty drat good. I really like how the fans ending loops back around to be the son's ending too. I feel like Pardo and the Actor were both kinda red herrings though and not really sure what they were supposed to serve, since they were mostly unrelated to 50 blessings. I do kinda like Pardo's story about being this killer that's killing for attention but he never gets the attention in the end, and the nuke kills everybody and if he hadn't killed anybody the nuke would have killed them anyways, so its almost entirely moot. Overall the game feels extremely nihilistic. Jizz Festival posted:You have to time it a bit earlier than other guys, but it's not that hard once you get it down. Easier than throwing poo poo. Guess I should have kept trying. Throwing was definitely tricky as gently caress.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:28
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Ledgy posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZiL2upBBn8 The Hard Mode version wants you to do the same thing, more or less, but with more windows and weapon swapping with the two gunmen in the third room.  I got a B+ after an hour of attempts. It really does feel, more and more, like Correy's roll is something they designed a couple cool-looking routes around.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:30
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Erata posted:The Hard Mode version wants you to do the same thing, more or less, but with more windows and weapon swapping with the two gunmen in the third room. Windows are the bane of my existence
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Mar 18, 2015 17:31
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So the only thing in the story that really has me confused right now is The nuke I had originally figured that it was The 'casualties' rush on the enemy base and killing their leader that set off the nuclear launch, causing the nuclear bomb. But beard is present in Hawaii for that level, and he's in San Fransisco for the nuke hitting, so there's no way that's right, right? I need to pay more attention to what is happening in San Fran and what's happening in Miami, I totally missed that distinction at first
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Mar 18, 2015 17:39
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Zaphod42 posted:So the only thing in the story that really has me confused right now is The nuke The events in Hawaii and San Fran take place before HM1. The presidential murders aren't shown in game, but are implied to be perpetuated by the Colonel, who is 50 Blessings' leader.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:44
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By the way, I think I've figured out part of what's going on in The Abyss, though only a part. I'll check into it this evening and let folks know if I'm right.Zaphod42 posted:But instead what we got was more like Hotline Miami: The Lost Levels (ballbreaking edition) Hard mode is worse. There are several cases where the level is made harder because the designer intentionally applies improperly implemented content. For example, the chainsaw enemies introduced on hard never had nonfatal knockdown animations applied- so the devs stuck one in a reporter level and force you to go into rage mode, defeating the whole purpose of the character. Ledgy posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZiL2upBBn8 I strongly suspect that they didn't change Corey's levels when they went back and removed one of her skills- she used to spawn with a Katana, like the son's equivalent skill. Jizz Festival posted:You have to time it a bit earlier than other guys, but it's not that hard once you get it down. Easier than throwing poo poo. This- the hitbox for charging melee prisoner enemies is basically the rectangle created by their arms. I agree that they (especially their pathing) is poorly implemented. They turn on a dime and thus their cantilevered killbox can teleport onto you if you make a turn while running away from them. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 17:51
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Ledgy posted:The events in Hawaii and San Fran take place before HM1. The presidential murders aren't shown in game, but are implied to be perpetuated by the Colonel, who is 50 Blessings' leader. I get that. Its just with the jumping around non-chronologically.... wasn't there some kinda bomb going off at the end of 'casualties'? Was that just the factory blowing up? (Barnes and whatshisname don't make it out...) I assumed that was the nuke launching. So instead we have this Hawaiian Missile Crisis and nothing happens.... and then later there's just a Nuke that's almost unrelated? That's just kinda weird and badly explained? Makes me think that A level where you play the presidential murder and see the nuke launch or even cause the nuke launch would make sense. I did at least figure out that The Colonel is supposed to be 50 Blessings' leader. Although The whole thing with him going crazy and putting on the Brandon style mask, only to go "uh... not feeling so well guys, forget about all that" was really loving weird. I expected him to start shooting the place up or chase off naked into the forest or something.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:55
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Zaphod42 posted:I get that. Its just with the jumping around non-chronologically.... wasn't there some kinda bomb going off at the end of 'casualties'? Was that just the factory blowing up? (Barnes and whatshisname don't make it out...) I assumed that was the nuke launching. So instead we have this Hawaiian Missile Crisis and nothing happens.... and then later there's just a Nuke that's almost unrelated? That's just kinda weird and badly explained? Casualties ends with the power plant self-destructing, a nuke didn't launch. Later on in the war (probably at the end) San Francisco gets nuked by the Russians (Leading to a surrender by the Americans?) and then a few years later the Presidents are assassinated by 50 Blessings and the Colonel which leads to Miami (And probably everywhere else) getting blown off the map.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:00
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Zaphod42 posted:I get that. Its just with the jumping around non-chronologically.... wasn't there some kinda bomb going off at the end of 'casualties'? Was that just the factory blowing up? (Barnes and whatshisname don't make it out...) I assumed that was the nuke launching. So instead we have this Hawaiian Missile Crisis and nothing happens.... and then later there's just a Nuke that's almost unrelated? That's just kinda weird and badly explained? That was just the factory blowing up. The San Francisco thing happens after Beard gets home, and is actually mentioned in HM1. Also that wasn't a mask, the Colonel killed a panther and was wearing it's face.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:01
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So the factory gets blown up.... then later San Fran gets nuked.... then later Miami gets nuked? That's just loving odd. Its too much. TheJoker138 posted:That was just the factory blowing up. The San Francisco thing happens after Beard gets home, and is actually mentioned in HM1. Also that wasn't a mask, the Colonel killed a panther and was wearing it's face. I guess I missed that in HM1. I know that wasn't really the Brandon mask but it was very very clearly meant to reference it. Like that was the genesis of the Commander's idea to have people wear masks or something.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:02
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Swinging a long weapon like a bat or a pipe has a bit of special behaviour where you don't need to click multiple times to hit enemies that are coming at you. If you swing once, and the bat is still moving you can actually move into enemies and the momentum will take them out aswell. This is really useful with Richter as there's multiple levels where you get rushed by multiple people.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:03
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Ddraig posted:Swinging a long weapon like a bat or a pipe has a bit of special behaviour where you don't need to click multiple times to hit enemies that are coming at you. If you swing once, and the bat is still moving you can actually move into enemies and the momentum will take them out aswell. This is really useful with Richter as there's multiple levels where you get rushed by multiple people. This is a change from HM1 I enjoyed quite a bit, since I'm pretty sure you could only kill one enemy per swing.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:06
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Zaphod42 posted:So the factory gets blown up.... then later San Fran gets nuked.... then later Miami gets nuked? Factories get blown up in war all the time, and I don't know why you keep associating it with the nukes. Your entire mission there is to clear and probably destroy that power plant during that level, it just doesn't go down the way you think it would with the self-destruct and all. The reference to SF is vague, but at one point in Jacket's hallucinations he says that he thinks something bad is coming, and hasn't felt this way since San Francisco.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:08
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Zaphod42 posted:So the factory gets blown up.... then later San Fran gets nuked.... then later Miami gets nuked? ...why? They're separate incidents with separate causes. There's confusing or questionable parts about the story - this isn't one of them.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:11
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TheJoker138 posted:Factories get blown up in war all the time, and I don't know why you keep associating it with the nukes. Your entire mission there is to clear and probably destroy that power plant during that level, it just doesn't go down the way you think it would with the self-destruct and all. The factory isn't the part I have issue with. Its more that The plot of HM1 and HM2 apparently rely on not one but two nukes going off. That's just kinda weird and crazy, it feels awfully deus ex machina. Even shows like 24 don't try to have two nukes go off in populated areas. The only reason I even brought up the Military base was because like I was saying, if you had caused the nuke launch yourself, then that ties it to the plot and its not longer a deus ex machina but some kinda commentary on war and chaos and death. Instead its just nihilistic as gently caress, we're all gonna get nuked in WW3 so who cares, nothing matters. I mean, I guess I just need to dig deeper, but what is going on here? How does the first nuke not cause some huge WW3 event or plunge the country into war and acting all defensive? How are people just hanging around Miami not acting like its wartime? I guess the American-Russo coalition was in response to the nuke in San Fran? But then where did the nuke in Miami come from anyways? Russia nukes their ally because gently caress em? Cold war reaches a boiling point and mutually-assured-destruction begins? Where is it going and what does it mean? Nothing. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 18:12
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Zaphod42 posted:So the factory gets blown up.... then later San Fran gets nuked.... then later Miami gets nuked? It's akin to what happened in WWII against Japan but with the US on the receiving end. The Cold War turns hot and America gets into a protracted war with Russia, with Hawaii as one of the final fronts. Beard's unit enacts a number of increasingly futile guerrilla raids on the Russian forces, culminating with the power plant takeover that does nothing but get half of Beard's unit killed. Russia, fed up with playing nice, nukes San Francisco to force the United States into acquiescence. Over the course of the next four years, the two countries call an extremely uneasy cease-fire to prevent MAD as the Colonel of Beard's unit initiates 50 Blessings and the Hotline Killings as vengeance for what he went through in Hawaii. 50 Blessings' plan succeeds, embroiling Miami (and possibly the whole country) in increasingly hysterical waves of anti-Russian sentiment until the Colonel personally spearheads a dual assassination of the Russian and American world leaders at a peace conference. Miami, and probably the whole world, consequently burns. The only part of the whole scenario that sticks in my craw aside from the whole magical-realist memetic violence angle of 50 Blessings is how America didn't slam their fist down on the gently caress YOU button and launch the missiles the moment San Francisco was nuked. It sort of flies in the face of how MAD works.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:12
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Ambivalent posted:...why? They're separate incidents with separate causes. There's confusing or questionable parts about the story - this isn't one of them. Though it may not be confusing, it is still pretty stupid.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:14
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2nd floor of dead ahead on hardmode wtf
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Mar 18, 2015 18:15
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Oxxidation posted:It's akin to what happened in WWII against Japan but with the US on the receiving end. The Cold War turns hot and America gets into a protracted war with Russia, with Hawaii as one of the final fronts. Beard's unit enacts a number of increasingly futile guerrilla raids on the Russian forces, culminating with the power plant takeover that does nothing but get half of Beard's unit killed. Russia, fed up with playing nice, nukes San Francisco to force the United States into acquiescence. Over the course of the next four years, the two countries call an extremely uneasy cease-fire to prevent MAD as the Colonel of Beard's unit initiates 50 Blessings and the Hotline Killings as vengeance for what he went through in Hawaii. 50 Blessings' plan succeeds, embroiling Miami (and possibly the whole country) in increasingly hysterical waves of anti-Russian sentiment until the Colonel personally spearheads a dual assassination of the Russian and American world leaders at a peace conference. Miami, and probably the whole world, consequently burns. Yeah that is exactly my problem. I'm totally 100% with the plot up until The point where 50 blessings kills the leaders for revenge, and then.... Miami gets nuked? Why? By Who? And the US just kinda accepts Russian coalition without freaking out about it? And they accept Miami being nuked without freaking out about it? Game should probably have just ended with the whole planet getting nuked MAD style. Have one of the characters ride the bomb out like Dr. Strangelove style and then boom, that's all she wrote, goodbye human race. Ambivalent posted:...why? They're separate incidents with separate causes. There's confusing or questionable parts about the story - this isn't one of them. Its really really really really lazy and poor storytelling. If I was watching a TV show or a Movie and some place got nuked, and then later some other place got nuked too, its just like, okay okay we get it. Do something else already. That's just too stupid. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 18:16
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah that is exactly my problem. Russia and America freak out at both their leaders being killed and launch the missiles. Miami's just the only nuke we see, since all the characters are based there (except for Richter, who's probably moved to either Hawaii or the Florida Keys with his mother). Presumably, the whole world burns.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:18
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Zaphod42 posted:The factory isn't the part I have issue with. Its more that The plot of HM1 and HM2 apparently rely on not one but two nukes going off. That's just kinda weird and crazy, it feels awfully deus ex machina. Even shows like 24 don't try to have two nukes go off in populated areas. Cold War went hot when the presidents were assassinated in a coup by 50 Blessings and Colonel Pantherhat. I figured that the coup part of the news report meant that 50 Blessings managed to start lobbing nukes at Russia so the Russian responded with MAD. Don't forget that Richter also got nuked in Hawaii.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:19
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Oxxidation posted:Russia and America freak out at both their leaders being killed and launch the missiles. Miami's just the only nuke we see, since all the characters are based there (except for Richter, who's probably moved to either Hawaii or the Florida Keys with his mother). Presumably, the whole world burns. Alright that makes a bit more sense at least. Its just with the whole nuke going off in San Fran and that only killing Beard and a few others, and then having an extremely similar scene at the end where Miami gets nuked, using the same exact nuke effect, makes me think that none of that mattered and life will go on somewhere else too. Improbable Lobster posted:Cold War went hot when the presidents were assassinated in a coup by 50 Blessings and Colonel Pantherhat. I figured that the coup part of the news report meant that 50 Blessings managed to start lobbing nukes at Russia so the Russian responded with MAD. Don't forget that Richter also got nuked in Hawaii. I did forget that  That's my point, too many drat Nukes Going off at different times.I'll just assume that After the sanfran nuke, all the other nukes were the Earth getting blasted to gently caress all at once so that makes a bit more sense.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:19
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Hotline Miami is a prequel to the upcoming Hotline New Vegas
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Mar 18, 2015 18:20
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I think the major problem people should have with the game's story is America didn't nuke the world after San Fransisco. Like come on, there's no way we'd just let that happen without MAD.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:21
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Zaphod42 posted:Game should probably have just ended with the whole planet getting nuked MAD style. Have one of the characters ride the bomb out like Dr. Strangelove style and then boom, that's all she wrote, goodbye human race. Uhhhh that's pretty much exactly what happens though?
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Mar 18, 2015 18:22
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:Uhhhh that's pretty much exactly what happens though? Problem is we don't see it, so it's only implied. But considering my previous grievance, I highly doubt that happens.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:25
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