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Wipfmetz posted:Could you elaborate on that? I've read that book about 15 years ago, and I remember nothing but some boy and his video game involving misunderstood aliens and very long space flights. Well, the book makes specific references to the Gulf War throughout, which for Johnny is just as real (or unreal) as the videogame he is playing. Both are ultimately televised conflicts disconnected from day-to-day life. On another level though, you can argue that Only You Can Save Mankind is about the fact it's much easier to dehumanise and kill an enemy than it is to understand their position - particularly as this is likely to make you as much a target of your 'own' people as it is the 'enemy'.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:35
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Pratchett wrote about how the war in Only You Can Save Mankind was inspired by footage of Gulf War bombings on the news, which Pratchett said looked like a video game.
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Mar 18, 2015 19:25
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daggerdragon posted:I made a thing stealing all the awesome things from reddit and various other places, as is the Gods-given right of Internet denizens. I knew I needed to update my website, now I have another reason. Also I'm annoyed; my copy of Night Watch is at my parents' and they're out of the country, so i can't do my re-read.
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Mar 18, 2015 22:50
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thespaceinvader posted:I knew I needed to update my website, now I have another reason. Do it, and then PM me.
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Mar 19, 2015 02:25
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MY friends and I spent all of secondary school buying up Terry Pratchett's books and swapping them so we had a complete set. It was a sort of game, trying to figure out who had what book so you could try to read them in the right order. This was the early 90s, and I think Pyramids was the most recently published book at the time. His books had a huge influence on our way of looking at the world; there's a lot to be said for gentle humanism. Sad that he's gone.
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Mar 19, 2015 02:37
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I think I like Nation the most as a standalone book, but it definitely gets a little bit wobbly somewhere at the two-third to three-quarter mark. It finishes strongly enough, I think. I should probably re-read it!
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Mar 20, 2015 03:42
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Thanks for everything, Mr. Pratchett.
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Mar 20, 2015 09:03
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What is the thing with Terry Pratchett where multiple novels (e.g. Hogfather & Reaper Man) have the exact same premise with the characters' names changed. Is this some weird meta-joke I'm not getting or the Alzheimers acting up
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Mar 20, 2015 19:16
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daggerdragon posted:Do it, and then PM me. As and when I get round to it I will, but I've changed PCs since last time I updated my site and I don't have any FTP or web editing software on here. My excuses are pathetic, but true.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:53
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His books tend to resemble each other within character sets and have done since probably around Witches Abroad, which was the second of the "witches interact with a familiar story and turn it upside down" books after Wyrd Sisters. I never have been too bothered by the shared premises because there are certain storylines that certain characters will be better suited for, and it's a pleasure to see them executed well. They all kind of have their own domains. Death and Susan are going to deal with disruptions to the mythical world and its inhabitants, the witches will be involved to pull a classic story off the rails, the guards will investigate crimes, the wizards will deal with extra-dimensional nonsense and eat large meals. I think it would be a sign of a lovely writer if they resembled each other outside the groups - like if Susan ended up in something that was clearly a Moist story, because she's not at all the sort of character that could drive an industrial revolution. Within the sub-divisions of the series, I don't mind having the same bones more than once if they get different meat. Both the elves and the vampires were cool and interesting villains even if they essentially presented the same threat. Sorry if I mixed anything up, I have been on a giant binge of Discworld for about a month and things are blurring a bit.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:55
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No but like Hogfather and Reaper Man are identical down to specific incidents Both involve the disappearance of a mythical figure, which causes a backup of {belief/life} energy because there is no longer an outlet for it, which leads to {folkloric creatures/inanimate objects} spontaneously coming to life. Compare the scene where a matronly pixie (or something) appears to one of the wizards before disappearing when the Hogfather returns to the scene where a pile of garbage comes to life and attacks the wizards, only to disappear when Death returns. I'm absolutely certain there are other examples of identical storyline and it's sincerely baffling to me. Like I don't get it chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 20:25
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I guess the stories were different enough that he felt like telling both of them, the latter of the two is still a decade before his diagnosis. I don't think they're supposed to be a metajoke.
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Mar 20, 2015 20:29
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I'm pretty sure any consequence for 'a mythical figure disappears' could be slotted into your wildcards.
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Mar 20, 2015 20:31
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Lords & Ladies and Carpe Jugulum are also identical storylines with different antagonists So there's really nothing I"m missing here, then, this is just an inexplicable thing no one comments on?
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Mar 20, 2015 20:37
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I think it's the nature of the beast, really. I mean, the Watch books are pretty much all - [crime] happens - Watch investigates, things go deeper than initially suspected - Vimes has to sort things out under pressure from Vetinari, his family, and several subsets of the populace - Vimes does sort things out to the notable improvement of life in Ankh-Morpork in general - Vetinari has been on top of it from the very beginning Especially the last bit does get a bit grating if I read a few in a row, like I have just done. Probably time for a break.
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Mar 20, 2015 20:42
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I really didn't notice when I read them, and it still feels like a bit of over-analyzing when pointed out, but to each their own. I personally get disappointed with music all the time because I often try to transcribe a song and discover that it has a meter just like the last one, and is really based on simple chord progressions. But someone's gotta do it, at least the composer, and on the philosophical grounds I'm not a fan of blissful ignorance, but I also really enjoy music, so I've kind of learned to accept that there's only so many rhythms you can stomp your foot and rock your hair in... Doesn't prevent me from producing unpalatable rubbish just for the sake of novelty.
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Mar 20, 2015 20:49
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End Of Worlds posted:Lords & Ladies and Carpe Jugulum are also identical storylines with different antagonists You try writing literally over forty books in the same setting and see if you don't have some overlap
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Mar 20, 2015 20:51
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And the connection to Alzheimer's is strenuous at best. The relevant symptom seems to be failing memory (which PTerry didn't seem to have suffered that much from, from what I understand), and it would be really odd if PTerry had forgotten the overall storylines he'd done, but remembered the specific events in the lives of the characters.
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Mar 20, 2015 21:00
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It's a 40-book fantasy series. Of course they're formulaic.
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Mar 20, 2015 21:30
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Plot structure is just one of the 6 factors of narrative theory, it's real easy to get distinctly different novels from it
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Mar 21, 2015 03:12
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Huh. Well, I've wondered onto French Amazon by accident, and as of this moment there is a special section called Hommage à Terry Pratchett. It's not a sale or anything from what I can tell, just  Les Ch'tits Hommes libres: Tiphaine Patraque.  What does that even...?
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Mar 21, 2015 07:06
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This line from Witches Abroad seems relevant: "Stories don't care who takes part in them. All that matters is that the story gets told, that the story repeats." You could probably run a really interesting compare and contrast exercise on a lot of Discworld books.
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Mar 21, 2015 09:04
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supermikhail posted:Les Ch'tits Hommes libres: Tiphaine Patraque.
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Mar 21, 2015 09:18
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Oh, I figured out which book it was. I was surprised that everything was translated, and I don't know some of these words. Well, at least "patraque" is real: "iffy, dodgy". I don't know if "ch'tit" is. I mean, it certainly has something to do with "petit", and maybe that's just some elaborate play on words, or a colloquialism?
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Mar 21, 2015 09:27
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supermikhail posted:Oh, I figured out which book it was. I was surprised that everything was translated, and I don't know some of these words. Well, at least "patraque" is real: "iffy, dodgy". I don't know if "ch'tit" is. I mean, it certainly has something to do with "petit", and maybe that's just some elaborate play on words, or a colloquialism? I haven't read Tiffany Aching's books in English or in French so I don't have a lot of insight here, but the French translator made the Nac Mac Gal speak Picard (from Northern France). Tiphaine is French for Tiffany and Patraque is slang for weary, tired, I've never seen it used to mean iffy or dodgy. Ch'tit means "short" in Picard, as you said. Picard is a language from Northern France, it's in the same language family as French (Langue d'oil), though it sounds really different. For example they say "Miyard!" instead of "Merde!" (poo poo!). Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 09:29
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Oooh. I appreciate this insight.Kurtofan posted:Tiphaine is French for Tiffany and Patraque is slang for weary, tired, I've never seen it used to mean iffy or dodgy. wordreference.com. I haven't reached Tiffany Aching yet, so I wasn't sure how much weight I was supposed to give the meaning behind the name, especially given the previously mentioned Spanish translation of Dibbler... but I hoped the protagonist (?) wouldn't be deserving of a patronymic with a connotation of "iffy, dodgy".
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Mar 21, 2015 10:04
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Well the book talks about how her dad has inhereted the One True Dad Joke: "I've been on my feet all day and now I'm Aching." Sooo there's probably a similar joke from Tiff's french name.
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Mar 21, 2015 10:51
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Kurtofan posted:Ch'tit means "short" in Picard, as you said. Exactly. It's the French analogue of Scots dialect.
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Mar 21, 2015 11:44
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I was just leafing through Jingo a bit and came across a translation blunder I never quite realized. Vetinari visits Leonard to talk about the new island, and at the end there's a sequence of dialogue where Leonard mentions off-handedly he's actually been there and a few minutes later says he ran out of Burnt Umber, Vetinari eventually gets ready to leave but hurries back minutes later and asks Leonard "you did what?" Reading the (old) German translation you never realize that Vetinari has just now caught on to Leonard's aside remark about Leshp, which is only one of the main plot points of the whole book as it goes on, because in his mysterious ways the translator thought Vetinari's last line referred to the burnt umber, and so in the German version he runs back in, catches his breath and very carefully asks "you ran out of what?"
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Mar 21, 2015 17:09
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End Of Worlds posted:Lords & Ladies and Carpe Jugulum are also identical storylines with different antagonists Also Moving Pictures and Soul Music, a bunch of the Vimes ones, etc. There's enough good books in the series, but it's a valid criticism.
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Mar 22, 2015 11:26
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End Of Worlds posted:What is the thing with Terry Pratchett where multiple novels (e.g. Hogfather & Reaper Man) have the exact same premise with the characters' names changed.
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Mar 22, 2015 11:34
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Rest in peace, Terry.
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Mar 22, 2015 15:54
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My Lovely Horse posted:I think it's the nature of the beast, really. I mean, the Watch books are pretty much all The Watch stories become progressively worse as Vimes becomes more and more superhuman and Ankh Morpork becomes more and more civilized. With the Witches storyline and Rincewind he at least knew when to quit in time, sort of. Also although he was going to die sooner or later, it still feels sad. Pratchetts books have been a part of my life for 25 years and he was one of few authors that have never let me down. Knowing that there will be no more books (well, after the 2 written but unpublished) is pretty depressing.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:09
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Cardiac posted:The Watch stories become progressively worse as Vimes becomes more and more superhuman and Ankh Morpork becomes more and more civilized.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:04
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FactsAreUseless posted:This is one more reason Night Watch is amazing and Snuff is... not. To be fair to Pratchett he realized that Vimes and Granny Weatherwax were "topping out" as it were. I think that's a large part of why he started the Moist and Tiffany Aching books. Unfortunately he also was, well, deteriorating.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:21
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Went to the 20th anniversary afpmeet today, as by mad coincidence I happened to be in London instead of Northeast Scotland for once. Met some people I haven't seen in a very long time, did a bit of reminiscing, had a few laughs. Pterry would have liked it - it wasn't miserable. I also found out that we are proceeding with the Tenth International Discworld Convention next year (I moved it should be subtitled "I A-Ten-t Dead") and details should be going out soon.
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Mar 23, 2015 01:24
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Cardiac posted:The Watch stories become progressively worse as Vimes becomes more and more superhuman and Ankh Morpork becomes more and more civilized. I was wondering whether this was just because I read Snuff/Raising Steam for the first time last year, whereas I read all the way up to Thud while I was in high school, and I matured a lot as a reader in between those two times. Like, I have no patience for infallible heroes anymore, which Vimes definitely was by the end (there are some insufferable monologues in Raising Steam). I wouldn't call him a Mary Sue, because I don't think Pratchett was basing him on himself, but it was that same sort of vibe - a hero who can do no wrong, and by the same token, villains who are merely pure psychopathic evil. Carcer in Night Watch was fine, but the villain in Raising Steam (edit - I mean Snuff), whose name I don't even remember, was just tiresome. I get that truly evil, nasty people really exist, but they're far less interesting to me than people who do evil things for good reasons, and I'm not sure why Pratchett would want to churn out more than one of those characters. Carcer in Night Watch is interesting purely because of how Vimes reacts to him, how his actions comes close to unleashing the same substance in Vimes. (IIRC the original title was "The Nature of the Beast.") Snuff seemed like a much more cut and dry, black and white conflict, and by the time of Raising Steam it's just gone completely off the rails (lol) and Vimes is, as you say, a superhuman. Still a fantastic character, still "the most fully realised decent man in modern literature" (as a piece at the Guardian put it), but it's a shame that happened at the end and I'm relieved I'm not the only one who thinks so. freebooter fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 18:46
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My Lovely Horse posted:Reading the (old) German translation you never realize that Vetinari has just now caught on to Leonard's aside remark about Leshp, which is only one of the main plot points of the whole book as it goes on, because in his mysterious ways the translator thought Vetinari's last line referred to the burnt umber, and so in the German version he runs back in, catches his breath and very carefully asks "you ran out of what?"
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Mar 23, 2015 21:24
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My Lovely Horse posted:- Vetinari has been on top of it from the very beginning Jingo was the only book that really had a deus ex Vetinari. Or probably a Vetinari ex machina. Most of the time Vetinari just had an idea, and moved pieces into place to find out fully. And vimes is his prized piece. He winds him up on purpose you know.
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Mar 24, 2015 18:30
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Vetinari didn't really have everything under control in Jingo until he had the stroke of luck of getting that crucial bit of information on the nature of Leshp from Leonard anyway.
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Mar 24, 2015 19:40
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