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I need to rewatch Tetsujin 28, and I really need to refind that weird Korean streaming site that had the original Space Oddity audio in that one episode, it was way way better and emotional than the replaced audio.
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Mar 19, 2015 03:29
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The only bad thing about Shin Mazinger is the same bad thing about the Getter Robo manga. Both promise an ending that never happens. No Shin Great Mazinger, no Ishikawa coming back from the dead to write the last epic battle. It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if it is a good idea to be a super robot fan, so many heart-breaking tragedies.
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Mar 19, 2015 03:51
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Artum posted:Having watched G Gundam for the first time like 2 weeks ago. To me, G Gundam was just a by the numbers kind of martial arts student v.s. master story, and it's not even done that well because the characters are either jerks or over the top obnoxious. I wasn't sad at all when the kung-fu master died, you could see it coming from a mile away. I reacted to it about the same as I reacted to Kamina's death years later. I got sick of cliche kung fu power training stories due to being desensitized to it from all the DBZ reruns while waiting for Gundam Wing or Robotech to come on. That's why I really don't like Sekai in GBF Try but I put up with him for the more interesting other characters, Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Mar 19, 2015 |
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Mar 19, 2015 04:40
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Dude that's not what G Gundam is at all. Even after Master Asia does his heel turn, he's by no means presented as the final opponent and there's still real plot left after that. Not to mention Master Asia is nothing like Kamina in any way. Their deaths aren't even similar nor do they have similar impacts on their representative characters. Hell Sekai isn't even like Domon even though that's the comparison. Domon was pretty unlikable for a chunk of the show. Sekai shows up and is immediately liked and finds friends. SethSeries fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Mar 19, 2015 |
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Mar 19, 2015 05:00
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TheManSeries posted:Dude that's not what G Gundam is at all. Even after Master Asia does his heel turn, he's by no means presented as the final opponent and there's still real plot left after that. Starnge, because the fight with him and the aftermath feels like a finale. Certainly felt like enough episodes to be a finale. I didn't know there was more left, but, what was there left to finish up, exactly? Unless they just had a new problem rise up out of the blue to extend the series? Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Mar 19, 2015 |
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Mar 19, 2015 05:02
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Clawshrimpy posted:Starnge, because the fight with him and the aftermath feels like a finale. Really? I'm pretty the main plot was,"Hey Domon, your dad is frozen and possibly a criminal. Go find and kick the poo poo out of your brother and his satan machine so that your name is cleared." Master Asia is a big point but there's still a god drat finale with the real villain. Especially since even before the final fight with master asia the devil gundam comes back and it's there the entire time. It's not master asia cells infecting people. It's not the master asia army Domon fights mooks from.
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Mar 19, 2015 05:11
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TheManSeries posted:Really? I'm pretty the main plot was,"Hey Domon, your dad is frozen and possibly a criminal. Go find and kick the poo poo out of your brother and his satan machine so that your name is cleared." Master Asia is a big point but there's still a god drat finale with the real villain. Especially since even before the final fight with master asia the devil gundam comes back and it's there the entire time. It's not master asia cells infecting people. It's not the master asia army Domon fights mooks from. But I thought the whole plot was about Master Asia using the Devil Gundam to put an end to the Gundam FIght because he couldn't stand seeing Earth getting destroyed by the Gundam Fight. But if it was all about his brother, it just goes from the kung fu student v.s. master story, to the kung fu quest for revenge story. Kind of splitting hairs? Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Mar 19, 2015 |
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Mar 19, 2015 05:14
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That's a part of it yes but that thing is still around even after he died and he couldn't even use it due to his terminal illness. Part of that fight is Domon teaching him that humanity is part of the earth too, but there is still plot left after and one of the best "dumb karate anime" character development scenes out there. You can't just write off the finale. Man The gently caress am I doing. This is the same drat argument I always get in with you just with a different show. SethSeries fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Mar 19, 2015 |
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Mar 19, 2015 05:27
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TheManSeries posted:That's a part of it yes but that thing is still around even after he died and he couldn't even use it due to his terminal illness. Part of that fight is Domon teaching him that humanity is part of the earth too, but there is still plot left after and one of the best "dumb karate anime" character development scenes out there. You can't just write off the finale. But that would mean the finale would just be about stopping his brother and the evil robot, which at point it would just transition to the kung fu quest for revenge. Plus, the entire plot does pretty much embrace those kung fu training themes and all the stuff about "communicating with your fists" is just like any fighting show from DBZ to Hokuto no Ken.
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Mar 19, 2015 05:34
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Clever Spambot posted:Ive still not actually seen Giant Robo but i'm planning to very soon. I absolutely love Shin Mazinger, but I think that Giant Robo is Imagawa's best work. It would be my favorite anime if not for Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Clawshrimpy posted:But this is what I hated about what Imagawa did with Shin Mazinger, rather than have a coherent plot, it's just a bunch of Nagai in-references that I don't care to see and get shoved in my face. Uhhh... Shin Mazinger does have a coherent plot though? Kouji wants revenge for his Grandfather's death. Dr. Hell wants photon power to achieve his evil goals. Everything is tied down to the theme that Mazinger Z can be a demon or God depending on how one uses it. The first half is Kouji learning to utilize it by becoming a better pilot, trusting others, and chilling the gently caress out. His training comes to a head in the encounter with Danube Alpha-1 with the conclusion ultimately left ambiguous. The second part is Kouji embracing that ambiguity and outright claiming that he neither desires to be a demon or God. He seemingly does the heroic and ultimately good thing in punching the gently caress out of the villain literally named Dr. Hell, but is immediately faced with the consequences of unleashing a greater evil. However, Kouji is willing to commit to his actions and face his problems like a man. The whole thing ends with a Giant Robo-style tragedy of misunderstandings that puts a really nice twist on a really simple story without robbing the original of its intent. Imagawa does Shin Mazinger justice because he synthesizes the themes of the original into his own style without really compromising either. How did the references compromise the show at all? What did it remove you from? Like, that gag with the Super Alloy Z weapons was all of 40 seconds long. I got a laugh out of Ankokuji holding onto the Z Pick for a few episodes, honestly. Ashura's dramatic monologues were literally the best and the one in question is him seemingly dead, literally telling you that things are about to go off the rails and be it's own thing and it's gonna be really cool so stay tuned. And then the plot sped up 3 three times faster and was non-stop awesome with the substance that we had come to expect from the slow start. It's not like say Metal Gear Solid 4 where everything is undercut by being accompanied by a reference or having a reference be a punchline. There are genuinely cool parts of the game and some really clever callbacks, but it is so dense and almost everything is a reference to the point that it stops being interesting. Other problems obviously combined with that to make it a less fun experience. I feel that Shin Mazinger should get a pass because irrelevant references lie the Violence Jack Knife are quick and have no baring on the plot and the whole thing is done out of respect for Go Nagai anyway. Fake Edit: Clawshrimpy posted:But that would mean the finale would just be about stopping his brother and the evil robot, which at point it would just transition to the kung fu quest for revenge. There are multiple dimensions at work and you just completely disregard the fact that it is a Gundam show and one that follows UC Gundam well. The Shuffle Alliance literally pass on their roles to the next generation with Master Asia playing the stubborn old generation. He is sort of like Char in that he is willing to kill humanity to foster a better civilization for the future, but he is ironically progressing the struggle that is killing Earth. It's a great scene because he acknowledges he is well-past his time and finally passes the torch to Domon. There's even a coming of age story in Domon learning to grow up and reciprocate Rain's love instead of broing out with Allenby for life. In the issue with his brother, he does want revenge, but the whole point of Super/Hyper mode is to overcome petty aggression and find clarity. He loved Kyouji and he was very much the same person he always was instead of the illusion created by the destructive Devil Gundam that was manipulated by, you guessed it, the lovely older generation seeking personal gain. But let's ignore all of that because everything can only be one-dimensional and since they are all kung-fu mans and since I saw that Street Fighter movie that got packed in with Street Fighter Alpha, I have seen all Kung-fu movies about punching.
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Mar 19, 2015 06:07
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Iserlohn posted:I absolutely love Shin Mazinger, but I think that Giant Robo is Imagawa's best work. It would be my favorite anime if not for Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Robot Fights! annoying narrator, umm....greak mythos, weird brain things, more greek mythos, hey a good episode about a interesting scientist and his daughter! No wait time for more confusing greek stuff! Baron Ashura stuff, more Baron Ashura stuff, A fake Mazinger and Tsubasa is cursed or something, Dr. Hell making his move, NOTHING BUT ROBOT FIGHTS, Cliffhanger. And Master Asia being like Char isn't filling me with confidence since Char was a lovely person too, and the show is still rpetty drenched in the might makes right we can only communicate by fighting stuff.
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Mar 19, 2015 06:24
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Of every phrase you could use to describe G Gundam, an incoherent mess isn't one of them. It's a guy fighting to stop his brother's satan Gundam. Then he has to stop his teacher, who is helping the satan Gundam destroy humanity in an attempt to save the Earth. It's straightforward as hell. You can't even make the argument that it highly encourages the might makes right mentality because Domon gets called out on his rear end in a top hat behavior pretty frequently. As for Master Asia being similar to Char, while it is true that Char is a bit of a shithead, as characters they aren't particularly similar. Char is a petty dude who spends the better part of his adult life either trying to avenge his father's death, or running away from his past. Then he tries to ram some asteroids into the Earth to wipe out Earthnoids and let the environment heal itself, but let's not kid ourselves, it's really to get back at Amuro for accidentally killing his girlfriend from about 10-15 years ago. By comparison, Master Asia wants to wipe out humans on Earth because we keep polluting it, and that's about it. He's just super frustrated that humanity has tainted the Earth as much as we have, and in his warped state of mind he genuinely thinks the Devil/Dark Gundam is the best way to go about it.
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Mar 19, 2015 06:42
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Clawshrimpy posted:If it does have a coherent plot, it went way the gently caress over my head. It just seems like a huge freaking mess. That's because Master Asia and Char are suppose to seem like bad people. They're presented as peak individuals but they themselves are ultimately flawed. In challenging the ideals of the main protagonist they come to understand this and also help the hero of the story move on. Your earlier comment about G Gundam being about "communicating with your fists" is interesting because if you are calling it a flaw or cliche then it also applies to a lot of other series; GGG included. Many super robot shows also adopt the symbolism of channeling through physical combat because it then allows our heroes to combat their enemies not only on a physical level but also emotional.
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Mar 19, 2015 06:49
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I'll follow up with this. Yes, G Gundam is a martial arts show with giant robots. On the other hand though, not every loving martial arts movie is might makes right. Martial arts movies aren't always dumb, nor do they have to be. The same applies to Manga and anime. Here's a concept, the study and practice of martial arts is not a might makes right philosophy. Some people may take it to do that, but that is a minority. The general concept of martial arts is the growth and development both spiritually and physically. If you really think all martial arts manga and anime is just that might makes right philosophy, I highly encourage you to read vagabond then come back. Obviously you won't do that but whatever.
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Mar 19, 2015 06:50
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TheManSeries posted:I'll follow up with this. Yes, G Gundam is a martial arts show with giant robots. On the other hand though, not every loving martial arts movie is might makes right. Martial arts movies aren't always dumb, nor do they have to be. The same applies to Manga and anime. Or hell, just watch The Karate Kid. EDIT: Revolver Bunker posted:That's because Master Asia and Char are suppose to seem like bad people. They're presented as peak individuals but they themselves are ultimately flawed. In challenging the ideals of the main protagonist they come to understand this and also help the hero of the story move on. In the case of Char, he actively plays a role in helping Kamille get past his own anger problems, to the point that when it comes to the final confrontation between Kamille and Jerid, Kamille just goes "Good lord, you again?" and essentially chumps him with no pomp or circumstance. Compare that with beginning of Zeta Kamille, where he goes out of his way to try and step on a guy with the Mk-II because the guy punched him. TARDISman fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Mar 19, 2015 |
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Mar 19, 2015 06:52
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Clawshrimpy posted:If it does have a coherent plot, it went way the gently caress over my head. It just seems like a huge freaking mess. my word, we've been clawshrimpyed
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Mar 19, 2015 06:54
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He can't understand the basic plot of G Gundam, why do you even bother.
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Mar 19, 2015 06:56
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Clawshrimpy posted:If it does have a coherent plot, it went way the gently caress over my head. It just seems like a huge freaking mess. It just kind of sounds like you couldn't handle how bombastic the show was or you weren't really paying attention to the dialogue. It's not just Baron Ashura stuff. You're getting a look at Tristan and Isolde's past and their allegiance and identity is literally held together by stitches being pulled by debts to Dr. Hell, Tsubasa and their countrymen. Tsubasa isn't really phased by Viscount Pygman's curse. She is enacting a ruse that simultaneously reveals the burdens of her past, builds up Energer Z as a huge threat, sets up the God Scrander and Big Bang Punch and lets Shiro come to terms with Tsubasa as is his mother. The whole second part is extremely tight and is a snowball rolling down a hill before ramping off a cliff. With regards to Master Asia. Yeah, he is sort of a lovely person. He is also very likable and ultimately means well in spite of his methods. Domon and Rain go back to Earth because Master Asia wants it to be the home of the future generation. They wouldn't oblige themselves if Master Asia wasn't a generally good person and role model and if he and Kyouji didn't sacrifice themselves to make that future possible. Speaking of Domon and Rain, the climax of the final battle is Domon sharing his feelings with Rain with words rather than fists. That's the whole point.
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Mar 19, 2015 07:03
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Shrimps doesn't care that characters are supposed to be flawed, flawed = bad and that it. I don't know why you're even bothering.
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Mar 19, 2015 07:20
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Sakurazuka posted:Shrimps doesn't care that characters are supposed to be flawed, flawed = bad and that it. I don't know why you're even bothering. It's really not that hard folks. Characters are also unable to develop or grow, especially if it takes longer than 5 episodes and is more subtle than straight up saying "Truly, shirking my duty is awful, I will never do it again. Now I am a more responsible person."
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Mar 19, 2015 07:27
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Clawshrimpyyyyyyyy Stop, Clawshrimpyyyyyyyy
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Mar 19, 2015 08:12
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Clawshrimpy I still want to know if you ever watched Turn A Gundam, and if so what you thought of it
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Mar 19, 2015 10:59
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TARDISman posted:Of every phrase you could use to describe G Gundam, an incoherent mess isn't one of them. It's a guy fighting to stop his brother's satan Gundam. Then he has to stop his teacher, who is helping the satan Gundam destroy humanity in an attempt to save the Earth. It's straightforward as hell. You can't even make the argument that it highly encourages the might makes right mentality because Domon gets called out on his rear end in a top hat behavior pretty frequently. I suppose the way I worded that was wrong, it was Shin Mazinger I was saying was hard to follow. (because things shift to different things on a consistant basis) My problem with G Gundam is that it's too simplistic and brute force-ey like anything like DBZ or Fist of the North Star or what have you. Sakurazuka posted:Shrimps doesn't care that characters are supposed to be flawed, flawed = bad and that it. I don't know why you're even bothering. Except that makes no sense, good character development is why I like GGG, it has flawed characters, it's just.... less confusing than Shin Mazinger (there is a difference between being well written and being obtuse), yet it isn't as simplistic as G Gundam. TheManSeries posted:I'll follow up with this. Yes, G Gundam is a martial arts show with giant robots. On the other hand though, not every loving martial arts movie is might makes right. Martial arts movies aren't always dumb, nor do they have to be. The same applies to Manga and anime. I Dunno, I just don't see what supposed to seperate G Gundam from stuff like Dragonball.
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Mar 19, 2015 12:52
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Is somebody talking poo poo about dragonball.
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Mar 19, 2015 13:00
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ninjewtsu posted:Clawshrimpy I still want to know if you ever watched Turn A Gundam, and if so what you thought of it Well, I hardly like any of Gundam at all, and I certainly don't like any Gundam that Tomino is involved in because I absolutely hated 0079 and Zeta, and I thought Zambot 3 was pretty horrible. The only Gundam anything I like is X, the 00 movie (even though I recognize it's got problems and doesn't meet it's full potential.) and Build Fighters.
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Mar 19, 2015 13:04
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Clawshrimpy posted:I suppose the way I worded that was wrong, it was Shin Mazinger I was saying was hard to follow. (because things shift to different things on a consistant basis) My problem with G Gundam is that it's too simplistic and brute force-ey like anything like DBZ or Fist of the North Star or what have you. We literally just explained why it was different. Also man, like I don't know if you are lumping in Dragon Ball with DBZ, but you shouldn't because it is very different. Honestly though at this point it's beyond the point. Trying to get you to think outside your bubble is loving pointless. As far as you're concerned stuff like JoJo, Vagabond, Rurouni Kenshin are also probably dumb might makes right karate anime and nothing else.
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Mar 19, 2015 13:20
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The big secret of G Gundam is that it's actually just as serious and gritty as other Gundam shows, but it happens to be drawing inspiration from wuxia instead of 70s sci-fi. Underneath the over-the-top kung fu and patriotic robots are serious themes about war and environmentalism.
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Mar 19, 2015 13:31
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blakyoshi posted:The big secret of G Gundam is that it's actually just as serious and gritty as other Gundam shows, but it happens to be drawing inspiration from wuxia instead of 70s sci-fi. Underneath the over-the-top kung fu and patriotic robots are serious themes about war and environmentalism. But even then, that's what I hate about the other Gundam shows that play that more straight. That it all comes down to the same factionist, confrontationalist war conflict, G Gundam just obscures that with a bunch of fighting anime tropes, if I'm understanding it right? I don't know if that actually makes it any better than 0079 or Zeta. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Mar 19, 2015 |
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Mar 19, 2015 13:37
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Clawshrimpy posted:But even then, that's what I hate about the other Gundam shows that play that more straight. That it all comes down to the same factionist, confrontationalist war conflict, G Gundam just obscures that with a bunch of fighting anime tropes, if I'm understanding it right? ... Huh? Break this down for me, you're a super robot fan who doesn't like warfare?
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Mar 19, 2015 14:04
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Darth Walrus posted:... Huh? Break this down for me, you're a super robot fan who doesn't like warfare? Warfare can exist but it needs to have clear Good Guys and Bad Guys so as to be as unambiguous and shallow as possible, also the Good Guys need to not want to fight (but fight anyway) while not dwelling too hard on not wanting to fight because that is too much of a downer and negative emotions in entertainment are bad, also the Bad Guys generally need to be inhuman alien creatures/robots because when human characters are Bad Guys who do bad things it makes them Bad Characters. The Good Guys also need to be functionally perfect and objectively in the right either at the start of the show or within the first 5 episodes or they are also Bad Characters Feel free to correct me clawshrimpy but i think that is basically the gist of it.
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Mar 19, 2015 14:15
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Darth Walrus posted:... Huh? Break this down for me, you're a super robot fan who doesn't like warfare? It depends. Gundam just has a dodgy track record with presenting a conflict as anything other than a thing where the only "positive" outcome is hoping the correct people get killed so tyrants will be out of power and the war will end.... temporarily. (No matter how many times a UC shows ends with "The Earthnoids and Spacenoids finally accept each other!" the next UC show comes out and either Earth does something lovely, or a new Zeon splinter starts up, or both.) I mean, even with all the problems Macross has, as least when Earth and the Zentradi obtained peace, it was for the long haul. As much as Gundam goes on about "understanding" it's rarely if ever about people actually acheiving that. the 00 Movie and maybe X is the only time it ended positively, as I can recall. Then on the other end of the scale you have SEED Destiny, or worse, AGE, where people talk a good game about accepting people for their differences but in the end it's all about fighting anything and everything that disagrees with you. And from the sounds of things, G Gundam is really just more of that, just hiding it under kung-fu type stuff. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Mar 19, 2015 |
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Mar 19, 2015 14:17
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i really enjoy the intro battle scene for macross do you remember love a lot even though i dont see dudes mention that ever over the millia vs max dogfight the buildup to the faster parts of it is really good
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Mar 19, 2015 14:41
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Clawshrimpy posted:No matter how many times a UC shows ends with "The Earthnoids and Spacenoids finally accept each other!"
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Mar 19, 2015 14:42
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Guyver posted:This literally never happens. The closest it comes to that is the end of CCA when everyone just agreed that dropping Axis on earth was a bad idea. Which turned out to be pointless because they just ended up blowing themselves up. Then doesn't that make all the going on about "understanding" even more pointless?
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Mar 19, 2015 14:47
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No because that's just undiluted cynicism. Its something to strive for, it being difficult does not make it pointless.
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Mar 19, 2015 14:52
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Artum posted:No because that's just undiluted cynicism. Its something to strive for, it being difficult does not make it pointless. But by the sounds of things, it never seems to actually amount to anything in most Gundam shows except for maybe X and the 00 movie.
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Mar 19, 2015 15:04
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Clawshrimpy posted:But by the sounds of things, it never seems to actually amount to anything in most Gundam shows except for maybe X and the 00 movie. It never amounts to eternal world peace, so i can see why you'd call that nothing. By F91 onwards people stopped being racist about being from space or earth which was pretty much the main conflict in gundam, after that things just boil down to bouts of run of the mill imperialism between long stretches of people just living happily.
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Mar 19, 2015 15:11
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Artum posted:It never amounts to eternal world peace, so i can see why you'd call that nothing. By F91 onwards people stopped being racist about being from space or earth which was pretty much the main conflict in gundam, after that things just boil down to bouts of run of the mill imperialism between long stretches of people just living happily. Except doesn't Unicorn take places well after F91, and that show is all about another Zeon relapse.
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Mar 19, 2015 15:15
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Nope, Unicorn takes place between CCA and F91. Shrimps maybe you should watch Wing since that ends with 'and somehow magically there were no more wars ever again.'
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Mar 19, 2015 15:16
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Clawshrimpy posted:Except doesn't Unicorn take places well after F91, and that show is all about another Zeon relapse. NO. IT DOESNT.
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Mar 19, 2015 15:17
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