Graic Gabtar posted:

Well you seem completely wrapped up in emotion and drama so I'll just stick to the policy and rule of law.

Graic Gabtar posted:

Well you seem completely wrapped up in emotion and drama so I'll just stick to the policy and rule of law.

Graic Gabtar posted:

Gough Suppressant posted:

Step 1) stop engaging with graic crabgat

CrazyTolradi posted:

Again, because law and policy means it's ethic and moral? Do you honestly believe that?

thatbastardken posted:

Gentleman Baller posted:

Don't make the thread worse. Gabtar didn't say that. Whether they are doing it honestly or not Gabtar is doing the whole "Sure, it'd be great if we didn't do this but pragmatically..." thing.

CrazyTolradi posted:

The rule of law works when you have a responsible and ethic government in place to use it. Australia doesn't have a Bill of Rights, because when writing up our Constitution, our leaders didn't believe it was needed. Surely, no government would ever need to be constrained by such, right?

Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party gained control and governance of the Weimar Republic. They ended up doing so via the rule of law that existed in the Republic at that time, and used those laws to go about the start of the Third Reich/Nazi Germany. They then passed laws that allowed the persecution and dispossession of Jewish peoples, as well as laws that allowed them to indefinitely detain those people. Everything they did, that historians now account as being abominable and inhuman, was done through the rule of law.

North Korea has allegations of humans rights abuse against it. People are alleged to be detained in political prison camps, forced into hard labour. Daily life in North Korea is one of constant censorship and control, right down to the haircuts people may have and clothing they are allowed to wear. There is no freedom of travel for North Koreans, nor is there freedom of expression. In their elections, there is only ever one candidate whom people can vote for. All of this is brought about by the rule of law, it is enforced by the rule of law and continued by that very same rule of law.

By your logic, Graic, those acts were right because they were law and policy, and with your logic applied, Nazi Germany did no wrong and North Korea does no wrong now. All is excused as long as it is done via the rule of law.

Graic Gabtar posted:

Well you seem completely wrapped up in emotion and drama so I'll just stick to the policy and rule of law.

Graic Gabtar posted:

I'm tearing up here.

Frankly mate your whining and overreach is strangely amusing and somehow boring as all poo poo at the same time.

I hadn't realised elections had been cancelled and you were tapping this out from a gulag somewhere. Wow, I'm completely convinced now. Silly me.

Graic Gabtar posted:

I'm tearing up here.

Frankly mate your whining and overreach is strangely amusing and somehow boring as all poo poo at the same time.

I hadn't realised elections had been cancelled and you were tapping this out from a gulag somewhere. Wow, I'm completely convinced now. Silly me.

thatbastardken posted:

please answer questions vis your history of serious domestic abuse craig

Graic Gabtar posted:

Oh man, can't I just be a Nazi again?

CrazyTolradi posted:

You didn't answer the question, Craig. Do believe that because something is the law and policy of the country at the time, it is therefore ethically and morally right?

I gave you examples of how just because something is lawful, it isn't right in a moral or ethical sense. You can take them or leave them as you please, but ultimately, you refuse to answer the question. Do you even have a moral compass? A sense of ethics? Or is it only the law what dictates your belief of what is right or wrong? Because as I've demonstrated, the law alone can be perverted to do great injustice.

Graic Gabtar posted:

I played a computer game like this once.

CrazyTolradi posted:

Well since you're clearly not taking this seriously.....

I won't tell you to kill you are self, but please do strongly consider having yourself painlessly euthanised as soon as the law allows you to do so. If it's legal, it's right, right?

Graic Gabtar posted:

Ahhh, you know people asking me to go kill myself is the money shot.

Let me remind me, YOU were the one asking for my opinion - angling for a bit of fun no doubt?

Well it's been good so far, keep it up.

You ask endless questions, yet give no answers of your own.

Graic Gabtar posted:

I played a computer game like this once.

ScreamingLlama posted:

Whatever you say, Herr Doktor Mengele.

Drugs posted:

Craig, you simply must pour gallon after gallon of my hot piss down your throat

Les Affaires posted:

Graig Gabtar, can you accept that somebody believing that people arriving by boat to claim asylum should be allowed to is a legitimate position?

CrazyTolradi posted:

You've made your point of view painfully clear to us all. I ask questions to understand why you've come to that point of view as well as to see what moral or ethical beliefs you have that have guided you to such a view.

If you have no wish in sharing them, I can understand your reluctance and shame that you might feel in doing so. Please, don't feel obliged just because I asked.

Fruity Gordo posted:

Fruity Gordo posted:

If you're not prepared to accept that your democracy can be fallible you aren't grown up enough to have a democracy

Graic Gabtar posted:

It's OK Nazi boy, there's nothing more evil than a nice strong belief in the democratic process and on balance that the people we elect will get it right more often than not or be tossed out by a mob that will fix it.

To take your drama to the other extreme without faith in this process I imagine the streets would likely be lined with hanged drug dealers, murderers and pedos. Anyone on the dole would be on the chain gang and your precious illegal entrants would probably be machine gunned on sight.

Sorry, I'm just caught up in your North Korea drama.

gently caress, I must be some kind of monster for believing in democracy and our system of government.