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PantsOptional posted:Almost every Chapter has some sort of world that they go to in order to select candidates for recruitment, and these worlds are often Death or Feral Worlds (which are exactly as pleasant as they sound). The "test" is usually some sort of nightmarish hell-crawl through an actively hostile landscape filled with terrifying creatures and absurd hazards, or a series of brutal gladiatorial matches against your fellow candidates, or some similarly ridiculous test of a warrior's strength/endurance/cunning. Scars had an interesting take on this that I hadn't seen before. As many legions still recruit from Terra they have a much more traditional I guess structure. Kids train but also are earmarked for certain legions. So the character we follow loves the Luna Wolves and angles toward that, but ends up simply being assigned to the white scars through bureaucratic jiggery-pokery. Kind of a unique angle on Marine recruitment I hadn't seen before.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:44
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I think that was only due to the Legions being relatively 'new'. I'm pretty sure Terra is now one of the drafting points for the Fists.
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Mar 11, 2015 21:17
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Probably the best thing about the Bill King Space Wolf books is that it implies that those who are recruited are those who die in the most  possible way in battle, but who can be saved with 41st millennium tech instead of languishing for days in agony like they would in the 1st.
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Mar 12, 2015 00:15
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:I think that was only due to the Legions being relatively 'new'. I'm pretty sure Terra is now one of the drafting points for the Fists. That happened post-Heresy. During the Great Crusade Terran aspirants were usually sent to whichever legion most needed new recruits or, when possible, which legion an aspirant seemed best suited for.
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Mar 12, 2015 00:21
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Or in the White Scars case, who sounded most like the Deus Ex Chinese voice actor.
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Mar 12, 2015 01:35
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Fried Chicken posted:I would love to see that documentary if you have a title. When I got out I just got 5 days of training about writing a resume, filing for benefits, how to interview, how to find an interview suit/dress, and the importance of not using "gently caress" like a coma anymore. And this was a few weeks before I shipped out for another 5 months because id be deployed at my EAOS I'm guessing it's somewhat similar to higher ranking NCOs, etc. They get softer assignments, opportunities of retraining to civilian job roles (even better if they can be dual-purpose and apply it before they leave). Often involves getting posted to TA regiments as full time staff where they can lend military expertise while interacting with people who are basically civilians. I did UOTC (Uni Officer Training Corps) and all the NCOs were career types (including a few special forces types) who were being given a soft landing for non-military life. I had an SSM who was a great guy and was preparing for life as a health inspector once he got properly out. We also had a few that came through who obviously had an issue with the fact that Uni students in a glorified army marketing campaign are not going to be following proper military discipline. Which is kind of a perfect preparation for being an officer who probably doesn't follow proper military discipline.
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Mar 12, 2015 06:35
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It seems some chapters like the Ultramarines and Salamanders are able to handle the more civilian aspects of life pretty well. I don't think the "child-like" focus is really what they drive at in the Space Marine fiction, but more of what you get when you strip a human of things like lust, fear, and other emotions, or at the very least neuter them, maybe enhance those that are deemed important to fostering a war mentality. Of course certain human actions are going to come off as confusing to them since they aren't able to empathize via shared experience, but most of them seem to deal with it pretty well. Saying Hyperion's reaction to entering a person's brain mid-coitus is like that of a child coming in on their parents is a tad off, because Hyperion knows exactly what is happening, he isn't ignorant of what sex is and how it effects people from an academic sense, just a practical sense.
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Mar 12, 2015 20:59
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Uroboros posted:It seems some chapters like the Ultramarines and Salamanders are able to handle the more civilian aspects of life pretty well. I don't think the "child-like" focus is really what they drive at in the Space Marine fiction, but more of what you get when you strip a human of things like lust, fear, and other emotions, or at the very least neuter them, maybe enhance those that are deemed important to fostering a war mentality. Of course certain human actions are going to come off as confusing to them since they aren't able to empathize via shared experience, but most of them seem to deal with it pretty well. Saying Hyperion's reaction to entering a person's brain mid-coitus is like that of a child coming in on their parents is a tad off, because Hyperion knows exactly what is happening, he isn't ignorant of what sex is and how it effects people from an academic sense, just a practical sense. It helps that the Salamanders and Ultramarines were both from the more 'human' primarchs. I love that Abnett brought the aspect of Guilliman wanting his warriors to also be statesmen and civic leaders and he encourages them to think in human terms as well as being super efficient killing machines. He knows (hopes) that the crusade won't last forever and wants a place for his sons in the completed empire. Afterall, how miserable would existance be if there was only war (wink to camera, nudge nudge). Of course, by 40k there are no primarchs left and the chapters are all divided up. Add to this the constant, never-ending wars and you don't have time to teach your castrated man-children to be human again. Here's a big rear end gun, here's a brainwashing religious cult to keep you loyal, now go forth and ruin poo poo! Oh, don't do chaos, K? The Ultramarines still have the culture of the 500 worlds and aren't as far removed from their primarch's vision. Even their offshoot chapters maintain the discipline and structure so it figures they'd be the most relatable. On a completely different tangent - someone posted a page millenia ago (original thread?) from some black and white WH40k comic that had a couple of batshit INSANE space marines rescuing some guardsman and then going about their business. Was I hallucinating or did I actually read that?
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Mar 13, 2015 09:32
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No I've read that comic. One guardsman gets separated from his unit and then encounters two marines who use him as bait to kill a bunch of dark eldar before disappearing. It's in one of the semi recent comic collections that I've got but I can't remember the name. Edit It's called "The dead still serve" and can be found in the Flames of Damnation collection. Cooked Auto fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Mar 13, 2015 |
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Mar 13, 2015 10:02
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Sounds like the Dawn of War mission where the Blood Ravens encounter a pair of guardsmen who held a machine gun nest for a week against Orks and Eldar. As soon as the Marines arrive, the guardsmen show them to an Eldar Base and promptly get killed by guardians.
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Mar 13, 2015 16:55
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Dog_Meat posted:It helps that the Salamanders and Ultramarines were both from the more 'human' primarchs. I love that Abnett brought the aspect of Guilliman wanting his warriors to also be statesmen and civic leaders and he encourages them to think in human terms as well as being super efficient killing machines. He knows (hopes) that the crusade won't last forever and wants a place for his sons in the completed empire. Afterall, how miserable would existance be if there was only war (wink to camera, nudge nudge). I think a lot of them can be portrayed as immature man-children because for most chapters they are immature. They don't have to deal with their emotions in the context of normal human society and children (brainwashed to be without fear) make pretty easy to motivate soldiers. It's partly an effect of simply being totally divorced from normal human society, I'd say that some hermetic order of monks suddenly thrust into normal life would come across as quite child-like in many situations. It's not so much that they are child-like as both them and children are inexperienced with these situations. In terms of the different chapters, yeah the ones descended from relatively balanced Primarchs that grew up actually dealing with and interacting with their worlds in a normal manner are unsurprisingly the ones best suited to interacting and dealing with people. All the Primarchs got some aspect of the Emperor, Guilliman lucked into the Emperor's vision, though without the staggering ambition and pride. Vulkan seemed to develop the Emperor's concern for humanity, though on a small more empathic scale than the Emperor's overarching concern for the human race. That Alt-History Dornian Heresy article someone posted a while back has an interesting take on the Ultramarines, with Guilliman mistakenly declared a traitor and the 500 worlds cut off, they continue to develop and advance according to his vision outside the dogmatic and totalitarian Imperium. Possibly in the 40K universe that kind of pragmatic open mindedness gets them eaten by Chaos though.
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Mar 15, 2015 15:28
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That's not set in stone, though. That other human civilization that shows up in the first Heresy books is quite open-minded, integrating aliens and being fully cognizant of chaos and its influences, and they seemed to be doing fine, though of course we don't know that much about them. And depending on the writer, the legions that had 'broken' primarchs actually mature in a different way that could be called less childish. Perhaps dealing with father-figures that were not seen as infallible gave them a bit more...grounding, for good or ill. I'm speaking mostly of the World Eaters and Word Bearers here, who were far more cynical/devious (respectively) than most other astartes who just had to follow Daddy's flawless lead and things would be alright.
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Mar 16, 2015 16:08
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Sephyr posted:And depending on the writer, the legions that had 'broken' primarchs actually mature in a different way that could be called less childish. Perhaps dealing with father-figures that were not seen as infallible gave them a bit more...grounding, for good or ill. I'm speaking mostly of the World Eaters and Word Bearers here, who were far more cynical/devious (respectively) than most other astartes who just had to follow Daddy's flawless lead and things would be alright. To be honest I think that is entirely on the author, given that the two you mentioned come from ADB. He writes the astartes as people, not video game protagonists or one dimensional power fantasies. Deeply flawed and broken people who are just trying to muddle through life with their burdens as best they can, but people none the less. Hell, that's largely what being a person is.
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Mar 16, 2015 16:47
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I've been getting back into 40k books, and apparently I've missed some big changes? Like, I think this starts out pre-Unification Wars, and I assume Fulgrim will show up eventually, but I'm 90 pages in and it's getting off to a very slow start. http://www.amazon.com/The-Emperors-Children-Claire-Messud/dp/030727666X
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Mar 17, 2015 02:54
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Sharkie posted:I've been getting back into 40k books, and apparently I've missed some big changes? Like, I think this starts out pre-Unification Wars, and I assume Fulgrim will show up eventually, but I'm 90 pages in and it's getting off to a very slow start. What the gently caress That plot summary is 
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Mar 17, 2015 03:09
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quote:Ludovic, a fiercely ambitious Aussie Well if it isn't bloody Brother Sergeant Ludovic mate!
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Mar 17, 2015 04:06
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I just finished Josh Reynold's 'Lord of the End Times,' which puts a cork in Warhammer Fantasy as we knew it. The only event that seems comparable to this was when White Wolf ended the Old World of Darkness and the End Times were handled better than that. As for the book itself, for the first half it mentions in passing some pretty big offscreen events and there's a lot of standing around in the forest, but the last quarter of the book is just everyone smashing their $100 (CDN) models together in the biggest fight imaginable and it's great. Little bits of humanity from the most inhuman of creatures helps keep you invested, and cameos by no less than Harry the Hammer and The White Dwarf were cute and fitting. While it glosses over a lot it's a solid read that anyone invested (or who invested) in the universe would do well to check out.
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Mar 19, 2015 15:55
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I may grab all the end times stuff at some point just to see how they hosed everyone over. It seems odd that they'd kill the setting off like that, but GW is GW.
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Mar 19, 2015 16:30
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So fantasy is done now?
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Mar 19, 2015 23:00
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Rumours I've seen are that they're sort of splitting it into two games, but those are shakey as gently caress rumours.
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Mar 19, 2015 23:21
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Lol if you play warhammer
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Mar 19, 2015 23:28
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You get that the books exist to sell mans, right? Without the game we get no books.
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Mar 19, 2015 23:30
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Lol if u read ham *looks at bookshelf* Fuckkkk
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Mar 19, 2015 23:34
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PRESIDENT GOKU posted:So fantasy is done now? It's getting a hard reboot.
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Mar 20, 2015 00:46
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Like, everything was hosed by chaos and now the order forces will rebuild? Could 40k get one? Maybe a primarch comes back and the loyal first founding chapters rally around him and they all boot the lords of terra out.
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Mar 20, 2015 01:41
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That's a soft reboot. Hard means flip over the table and start again.
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Mar 20, 2015 01:50
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The ends times for 40k will just be Chaos vs Tyranids until the hive fleets expend their last ounce of biomass and the Chaos gods dissolve into nothingness because humanity no longer exists.
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Mar 20, 2015 01:55
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PRESIDENT GOKU posted:Like, everything was hosed by chaos and now the order forces will rebuild? As in the world blew up completely and some people and races escaped into space and/or the realms of magic.
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Mar 20, 2015 03:24
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Wanna see Russ come back and destroy terra possibly teaming up w abbadon Wanna see the lion wake up/be not cray and lead the angels in full rebellion Wanna see guilliman wake up and be like wtf r u tards doing Wanna see magnus get his head out his rear end and magic some super gay poo poo at terra and destroy things Wanna see the emperor wake up and destroy everything in a fit of despair E: thought I was in gbs thread when I posted this
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Mar 20, 2015 04:09
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A cleaner unplugs the golden throne, but instead of everything going to poo poo when the emp dies, the big E just pops up alive again and gets all mad at everyone 'took your loving time didn't you? you did remember the bit about me being perpetual right?'
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Mar 20, 2015 08:02
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Where's the best place to start with reading ADB's stuff? The OP doesn't offer much direction other than 'he's new and good' and a mention of the Night Lord's trilogy. My black library experience thus far has exclusively been Abnett's big classics Eisenhorn/Ravenor and through Gaunt's Ghosts up to the penultimate book. Haven't delved into the full madness that is space marine bolter porn.
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Mar 20, 2015 14:55
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Night Lords Trilogy is pretty much the way to go with ADB.
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Mar 20, 2015 14:58
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PantsOptional posted:Night Lords Trilogy is pretty much the way to go with ADB.
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Mar 20, 2015 15:07
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Night Lords does have a few annoying quirks, like the constant referral to Astartes as demigods. Yes, I get that that is how mortals often see Space Marines, but could you change it up a bit? I've heard more references to Demigods than Abnett's use of the word "sheer". At least the Night Lords are all jackasses enough to comment on the bullshit titles, so ADB is aware at least.
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Mar 20, 2015 16:08
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Arcsquad12 posted:Night Lords does have a few annoying quirks, like the constant referral to Astartes as demigods. Yes, I get that that is how mortals often see Space Marines, but could you change it up a bit? I've heard more references to Demigods than Abnett's use of the word "sheer".
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Mar 20, 2015 16:47
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GW in general uses the word "entire" too much.
Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 16:56
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Arquinsiel posted:Some of the Primarchs are now basically gods in the Warhams sense, so the sons of those gods are what else if not demigods? Yeah but can that really apply to Curze a man who was decapitated and lived the life of a deranged Batman? For ADB my intro was Cadian Blood, its pretty good for a
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Mar 20, 2015 18:58
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Baka-nin posted:Yeah but can that really apply to Curze a man who was decapitated and lived the life of a deranged Batman? Regardless of how his character died, it doesn't change that he was one of twenty Emperor created incredi-beings.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:05
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And thus technically at least a demigod himself to begin with.
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Mar 20, 2015 20:02
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Baka-nin posted:Yeah but can that really apply to Curze a man who was decapitated and lived the life of a deranged Batman? Gods can die too
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