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Steam posted:Alpha 3's version is less a version and just the bad guys trying to pull a "nuh-uh, we can still win!" from what i can recall, doesn't kaworu get killed in one of the alpha games (@1 finale or @3 finale? i remember he was piloting the eva-02 with ode to joy as his background music... i think?) in a boss fight that lets eva-01 get the S2 engine? how do shinji and crew even react to him just popping up back from the dead to support them? either way, thanks for the writeup. that's a mighty strange way to twist the eva plot! Fereydun fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 13:05
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I know that happens in MX. Which I loving love how MX handled end. MATTE!
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Mar 20, 2015 14:37
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Steam posted:I've seen Shrimpy take both stances on Gunbuster from my time on /m/. First -years ago- saying that it was the last Gainax production he liked, and then much later calling it trash that was just a Getter Robo rip-off. If it makes you feel any better, I did watch Build Fighters when someone told me Try references GGG a lot.
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Mar 20, 2015 16:39
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Fereydun posted:from what i can recall, doesn't kaworu get killed in one of the alpha games (@1 finale or @3 finale? i remember he was piloting the eva-02 with ode to joy as his background music... i think?) in a boss fight that lets eva-01 get the S2 engine? All the Evas in Alpha 3 are outfitted with S2 Engines, which really just gives them like 30% EN Regen per turn in exchange for not having to bother with the Umbilical Cable mechanic. The Eva-02 thing with Ode to Joy is Alpha 1, and that version of Kaworu does pretty decisively die. Though the Kaworu in Alpha 3 says asking whether or not he's the same as the one in Alpha 1 is pointless since the Universe is constantly being renewed. The other characters really don't have much of a chance to react to him either, since he just goes off afterwards and he has, like one or two more scenes in the game interacting with Basara (who he actually has the most scenes with).
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Mar 20, 2015 16:44
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Revolver Bunker posted:Oh man, If he's into SRW I'd love to hear what he thinks about SRW W. Where Gaogaigar, Go Lion and Shin Getter Armageddon are all in it. And one of the big reveals is that G-Stone, GoLion and Getter Rays are actually the same source of power just interpreted differently. I'll say this, Alpha 3 handled GGG's plot better than W. Only problem with Alpha 3 was no FuuRyu and RaiRyu but that's understandable considering Alpha 3's roster was infested with too many different kinds of Mobile Suits and Valkyries. W ended up falling flat for me because I didn't like how they combined GGG's plot with loving GoLion of all things. Also Mazinkaiser cropped up far too often in GGG stages, too. I just like how in Alpha 3, the GGG story was mostly self-contained if that makes sense? Granted if you play Touma, the early GGG stuff gets connected to Jeeg, which is kinda bad but after that, largely self-contained and away from worse shows ruining it. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 16:51
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So what I'm hearing is "How dare Super Robot Wars act like a Super Robot Wars game?" One way to make a consistent narrative is to have common sources for series that share certain aspects. For example, Z2 has the scientists from Wing who developed the Operation Meteor Gundams work at Celestial Being in the past, it generally makes it easier to write the story. If you just throw a bunch of series around and don't integrate them much or at all then you get J, which was pretty much "Ok, now you fight a wave of SEED enemies, then after they run away you fight FMP enemies, then after THEY run away you fight a Zeorymer dude and a swarm of Mazinkaiser dudes."
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Mar 20, 2015 17:11
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"This Super Robot Wars has too much series crossover" is something I never actually expected to read. That is literally the selling point of the game.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:13
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I'm only not okay with it if it's stupid and involves a terrible show ruining a good show, see Z2 where we're told KMFs and ATs are based on the same technology, which is really, really stupid. And I have no clue why the Secret Society and all those red shoulders would be working with Britannia. Granted, VOTOMS kinda does a good job ruining itself the further in the timeline you get, but really silly connections to Geass does not help things. If GGG was in Z2/Z3 they'd probably try to tell me that G-Stone power and Spiral Energy are the same thing and I'd have to throw my PSP/PS3 out the window..... as cool as it would be to see Mamoru and Kaidou get to hang out with a fellow alien on Earth with Takeru, it wouldn't be worth that BS. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 17:20
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Translation: Anything that touches my sacred cow in an SRW in a way I don't agree withis ruining.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:24
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Clawshrimpy posted:I'll say this, Alpha 3 handled GGG's plot better than W. Only problem with Alpha 3 was no FuuRyu and RaiRyu but that's understandable considering Alpha 3's roster was infested with too many different kinds of Mobile Suits and Valkyries. Wut. Shrimpy, GaoGaiGar's plot in Alpha 3 was horrifically phoned in. Only a handful of Primevals, only fight two of the Sol Lords, most of FINAL's plot is covered in the span of three consecutive missions, and no FuuRyu or RaiRyu means that the return of EnRyu and HyoRyu are undermined, especially since its return happens on a route split and it could've been cool to have GouRyuJin and GenRyuJin show up. Genesic GGG is a great unit in that game, don't get me wrong, but it's one of the weaker canons represented (as opposed to the Nagahama Trilogy, Macross 7, and Dancougar). And most of GGG's canon welding with GoLion was just how Guy was friends with the GoLion team because they trained together. Also, two canons with lions in it? Why not play up the similarities (and differences for that matter). Besides, the canons closest to GGG in W were Tekkaman Blade and Orgun since the Zonders, Orgun!Evoluders, and Radam were caught in a pretty vicious three-way in space, and that still worked since most of the other canons in the game didn't involve proper alien invaders. I suppose this is ultimately a matter of preference though. I hate canons in SRW games whose plots are treated in a vacuum and nobody else's stuff can get involved or take part. I like my crossovers to actually *be* crossovers. That's why UX was so amazing for me. Maya's introduction as a combat unit is her sniping Zerokage in the stage where Joe fuses with Tobikage, Fei-Yen's full power gets unlocked during the TV Fafner finale, Sun Quan and Cao Cao get their Celestial Armor during a Macross Frontier stage when Lu Bu hijacks the proceedings, and then there's what I said a little bit ago about Heroman and Demonbane. EDIT: Oh that's right, W did more with Gimlet than the original OVAs ever did. Steam fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 17:25
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The entire appeal of SRW is that it takes bad shows and distills the strongest and most enjoyable elements out of them.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:26
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Also if you left plot missions strictly series segregated you either get J as mentioned or really short ones because a lot of series don't have grunts
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Mar 20, 2015 17:30
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Then again this is my dream SRW roster that I would totes make into a fangame if I could: SRW MW (Mechanization Wars) GaoGaiGar PROJECT Z/New King of Braves GaoGaiGo Brave Exkaiser The Brave Express Might Gaine Hot-Blooded Strongest GoSaurer Mobile Suit Gundam AGE Generation 3 (rewritten to give more focus to SID) Mobile Suit Gundam 00 -awakening of the trailblazer- Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny (no plot, just units/characters) Betterman Sortie! Machine Robo Rescue Heroman God Mars Originals
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Mar 20, 2015 17:33
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Clawshrimpy posted:Then again this is my dream SRW roster that I would totes make into a fangame if I could: That's your lineup, but how do you imagine the narrative to go? How do things fit together? Is this another dimension mash-up like the Z games or has everything come about on one world?
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Mar 20, 2015 17:35
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Steam posted:That's your lineup, but how do you imagine the narrative to go? How do things fit together? Is this another dimension mash-up like the Z games or has everything come about on one world? The narritive is centered around a singular world, rather than multi-dimensions, some of the villains are working together to take over the world via more conventional means (Kogorr and the Skrugg working with the Betterman villains to subject humankind to twisted experiments, the Vagan offering millitary support to Black Noir's army in exchange for war funding from Exerve, and perhaps later Asemu could run into some problem with Rival space pirates, namely, Dinogeist and the Geisters. To Zuul and the Gishin having used their power to revive the Planetary Lords of Sol and Zuul provided them with a new Pas-Q Machine, and are willing to help them get revenge on Mamoru and Kaidou (and the earth in general), in exchange for their help in trying to deal with Takeru and God Mars. ) But the main focus of the plot is on the "Machine Union". Where the main original villains, the Veiran Machine Empire, Are trying to put humans into large dome shaped prisons and give humans implants and eventually make them into one of them, their motivation being they were once treated badly by the organic lifeforms that created them, but they rebelled and decided to wage a war on all organic life and seeks to convert all organic life to their race in the name of their own defense. (the main original pilot is a boy who has already been given some of those implants, special ones as when he scheduled to be converted into a Veiran body, he was to pilot a special prototype mecha for them to help with the conquest. Instead, while he recieved the implants, he and seveal other humans, along with a ship, were broken out by the Veiran Prince who disagree with his brothers and his father, and helped the humans steal the prototype ship and helped the main original pilot use that prototype with the implants he recieved. Later in the plot, said Prince goes back to the Veiran side and winds up having to be killed, despite the fact that he didn't want to fight everyone he's came to understand and appreciate, but he came to that battlefield resolved to die to prove a point to his father.) Anyway, the Machine Union is an alliance between the Veiran Empire and various other AI/Robot forces that want to assimilate the earth and human life or otherwise destroy it. Including, the ELS, Kaiser-G and the Disasters, SID (who has been pulling the strings of the Vagans the entire time to cause the Federation/Vagan war to go on in order to weaken everyone for the Machine Union.) the Kikaika from GoSaurer, and The Veiran even suceeded in reviving the 31 Primevals from recovering a small fragment of Zonder material from the remains of the Z-Master. The Veiran are able to keep most of them under their command, such as the ELS and Kaiser-G and the DIsasters, but some have their own agendas, such as SID and the 31 Primevals and don't listen to the Machine Knights and the Emperor all the time. I even planned on this! there's an event very similar to the ZAFT v.s. ZEUTH event in SRW Z where half your forces have to fight the other half, in SRW Z it was divided between who sided with Kira and who sided with Shinn, in this fangame, It's based around Gundam AGE Generation 3, and the divide is who is loyal to Flit's cause, and who sides with Kio. The sides: Flit's side: Flit and the Federation forces Celestial Being Kira Yamato and Lacus Clyne Might Gaine/The Brave Express Machine Robo Rescue Heroman Kio's side: Kio Asuno Asemu Asuno Mamoru and Kaidou (3G) God Mars Athrun Zala and Shinn Asuka Exkaiser Akumasu Neuronoids Saurers) But it's just a silly idea.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:02
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Clawshrimpy posted:I'm only not okay with it if it's stupid and involves a terrible show ruining a good show, see Z2 where we're told KMFs and ATs are based on the same technology, which is really, really stupid. And I have no clue why the Secret Society and all those red shoulders would be working with Britannia. Granted, VOTOMS kinda does a good job ruining itself the further in the timeline you get, but really silly connections to Geass does not help things. watch out the clawshrimpy is coming with another bunch of bad opinions!!! 
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Mar 20, 2015 18:04
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Clawshrimpy posted:I'll say this, Alpha 3 handled GGG's plot better than W. Only problem with Alpha 3 was no FuuRyu and RaiRyu but that's understandable considering Alpha 3's roster was infested with too many different kinds of Mobile Suits and Valkyries. By handled better you mean not integrating GGGs story with other series. Which is the point of SRW games. Heaven forbid a super robot help out another super robot in a game called Super Robot Wars. Also  Jeeg is an amazing show and super robot.Also one of my favorite parts of SRW W is how the Go Lion crew keep trying to recruit Guy and GaiGar as the sixth lion in their sentai team. Then all the lions can chill and hang out.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:13
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Shrimpy, some of your ideas for this setup works, others not so much without drastically altering the respective canons. I don't know enough about the old-school Braves shows or GoSaurer, but... 1. Kogorr's not the kind of guy to just make alliances with humanity, especially since his endgame goal would've been completely devouring the Earth. Furthermore, many of Betterman's villains are either insane or loyal purely to their own cause. 2. The ELS weren't actively malevolent or really understanding what they were doing. They're thematically closer to the Festum and Vajra as enemies who aren't necessarily antagonistic, just so tremendously different than humanity that once proper dialogue is established with them, conflict is negated. Also, I find it extremely odd that Kira would side with Flit while Shinn and Athrun would side with Kio, considering their views on taking lives in the middle of battle. The ZEUTH vs. ZEUTH conflict was also caused by Chimera intentionally manipulating things so each side thought the other was committing pretty serious atrocities, and wouldn't have worked if they hadn't split up.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:25
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Steam posted:Shrimpy, some of your ideas for this setup works, others not so much without drastically altering the respective canons. I don't know enough about the old-school Braves shows or GoSaurer, but... Yeah now that I think about it, the Betterman villains would probably work better a s a self-contained thing, while Kogorr could probably have a decent reason to work with I dunno....Maybe the tie the Skrugg up with what's going on witht he Gishin and the Sol Lords? I dunno, maybe I should just take Heroman out completely, maybe replace it with VOTOMS, Wiseman might fit better with the rest than Kogorr. Quent might be a decent asset for the Machine Union. Maybe find something to replace the 00 movie with, too, now that I think about it, the ELS wouldn't have a reason to help the union. If Sentai stuff was fair game for SRW I'd just replace it with the Machines from Ohranger. Maybe take out the war event too, as cool as it might have been. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 18:36
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Yesterday's argument got me interested in Da Garn. Would it be ok if I did a mini review/my thoughts thing after each episode, like that guy in the Gundam thread did with AGE?
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Mar 20, 2015 18:45
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Clawshrimpy posted:If GGG was in Z2/Z3 they'd probably try to tell me that G-Stone power and Spiral Energy are the same thing and I'd have to throw my PSP/PS3 out the window..... as cool as it would be to see Mamoru and Kaidou get to hang out with a fellow alien on Earth with Takeru, it wouldn't be worth that BS. Like thats literally the point of spiral energy. Like everything else in GL its just more super robot homage; it's G stones, it's getter rays, it's flame from gaiking. Its the recurring concept of the protagonists being powered by their own force of will to save the day.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:46
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Droyer posted:Yesterday's argument got me interested in Da Garn. Would it be ok if I did a mini review/my thoughts thing after each episode, like that guy in the Gundam thread did with AGE? 
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Mar 20, 2015 18:46
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The pirates and the Federation came close to duking it out, but they ended up calling it off largely because of Kio begging them and the Vagan being a much larger threat. I could be misremembering that last bit since I watched AGE in something of a haze. The ZEUTH vs ZEUTH scenario was based on an actual event from SEED Destiny that they needed to adapt to somehow justify Athrun leaving ZAFT again, Shinn getting a promotion/the Destiny, and the Freedom getting trashed, mostly the latter.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:47
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Droyer posted:Yesterday's argument got me interested in Da Garn. Would it be ok if I did a mini review/my thoughts thing after each episode, like that guy in the Gundam thread did with AGE? Don't make it like those AGE writeups but if you're giving your opinions instead of trying to be MST3k then I'd be down for reading that since nobody really talks about the show. I think I'm gonna get back into Da Garn this weekend so that could be a nice refresher.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:52
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Alright, the first one will probably be later tonight or maybe tomorrow.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:54
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Droyer posted:Alright, the first one will probably be later tonight or maybe tomorrow. Watch that poo poo. DA Garn owns.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:58
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Getter Rays are cool as gently caress because it's like light from space that decides what species should inherit the planet. Sorry Dinosaurs, you were judged not worthy. It's pretty rad that the Dinosaurs managed to live on anyway and eventually fight a revolution against the force of fuckin evolution though. Getter owns, basically.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:01
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Light Gun Man posted:Getter Rays are cool as gently caress because it's like light from space that decides what species should inherit the planet. Sorry Dinosaurs, you were judged not worthy. My main issue with most Getter adaptions is how they completely ignore how Getter Rays are basically alive and kind of amoral.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:08
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Artum posted:...they basically are? Because it's weird they'd be "the same thing" because Spiral Energy is the concept of being manly and not thinking gives you superpowers, kick logic tot he curb and all of that. Where, MULTIPLE TIMES IN GGG. the G-Stone is literally called the "infinite-information circuit." one depends on your ability to think positive things, the other depends on how much you don't think and act on instinct. They're opposites more than anything else. Clawshrimpy fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 19:14
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The only difference between g stone power and spiral power is that spiral power was more consistent and its existence actually tied into the theme of the show, instead of just being a macguffin that powered robots.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:17
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Clever Spambot posted:The only difference between g stone power and spiral power is that spiral power was more consistent and its existence actually tied into the theme of the show, instead of just being a macguffin that powered robots. Except that's wrong, the G-Stone has a whole mythos explaining it if you pay attention. Spiral Energy is literally "As long as you act masculine and live by your basest of instincts you'll get stronger and grow drills all over you and win."
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Mar 20, 2015 19:18
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Clawshrimpy posted:Except that's wrong, the G-Stone has a whole mythos explaining it if you pay attention. Having a reason for existing doesn't not make it a mcguffin.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:21
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Its really funny when you go on twitter and bitch that we are othering you or some poo poo when what is actually happening is you just come into this thread and just poo poo on shows other people like by making up poo poo about them/not understanding them at all.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:22
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Droyer posted:My main issue with most Getter adaptions is how they completely ignore how Getter Rays are basically alive and kind of amoral. Yeah none of the adaptations really quite get the madness going on in the manga with getter rays and where they will eventually take things. The clones were perhaps the greatest fuckin thing I've ever read in a manga.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:22
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Clawshrimpy posted:Except that's wrong, the G-Stone has a whole mythos explaining it if you pay attention. We get it you love and hate the two aforementioned shows and want them to have zero goddamn relation. Stop taking literally everything said about GGG personally. No need to call everything bad because it doesn't measure to your golden standard.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:23
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Clever Spambot posted:Its really funny when you go on twitter and bitch that we are othering you or some poo poo when what is actually happening is you just come into this thread and just poo poo on shows other people like by making up poo poo about them/not understanding them at all. I was mostly complaining about my own inability to handle myself in these situations more than anything else, but if I did imply anything like that, sorry.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:24
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Light Gun Man posted:Yeah none of the adaptations really quite get the madness going on in the manga with getter rays and where they will eventually take things. The clones were perhaps the greatest fuckin thing I've ever read in a manga. Yeah, the whole timetravel arc is really good and kind of horrifying in a way a lot of fiction fails at.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:27
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Clawshrimpy posted:Except that's wrong, the G-Stone has a whole mythos explaining it if you pay attention. Spiral Power has nothing to do with masculinity, and everything to do with progress. Spirals are infinite shapes, and their infinity is representative of the infinite potential of humanity if we apply ourselves sincerely to a cause, which is generally manifested onscreen via the protagonists applying themselves to winning in fights against opponents, though is also seen in other places (like the construction of Kamina City and the construction of a civilisation, for instance). The fact that you are inherently reading all of those things as masculine is your own lens being applied to the show, thus exposing you as a member of the patriarchy that feels only "masculine" energy can accomplish those noble deeds, and therefore we owe all of civilised society to men. Check your privilege, Shrimpy, women are people too.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:29
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Paper Lion posted:Spiral Power has nothing to do with masculinity, and everything to do with progress. Spirals are infinite shapes, and their infinity is representative of the infinite potential of humanity if we apply ourselves sincerely to a cause, which is generally manifested onscreen via the protagonists applying themselves to winning in fights against opponents, though is also seen in other places (like the construction of Kamina City and the construction of a civilisation, for instance). The fact that you are inherently reading all of those things as masculine is your own lens being applied to the show, thus exposing you as a member of the patriarchy that feels only "masculine" energy can accomplish those noble deeds, and therefore we owe all of civilised society to men. Check your privilege, Shrimpy, women are people too. On the other hand, big shiny drill dicks.
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Mar 20, 2015 19:30
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Sometimes a drill is just a drill. Also humans are creatures of duality, the movement of a drill is the same movement as a spiral expanding outward (the creation of infinity) so they're still just expressions of that. You could make an attempt at arguing that the reverse-direction drills of the Anti-Spirals are inherently yonic since they are opposing forces to the phallic drill and therefore women are like, holding the menfolk back or whatever garbage, but that case would be a bit tough to actually prove within the text of the material. Now, drills as phallic objects in Dead Leaves, on the other hand...
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Mar 20, 2015 19:35
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