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A Steampunk Gent posted:Yeah I think there's always going to be some developers making old fashioned core games we like, but they looks like they're becoming more and more the exception rather than the norm Popular content changes over time. It also makes come backs. We see this pattern over decades of history with all sorts of different kinds of content mediums. With that said, I think that the best we can hope for is for the market to make room for more games which fall somewhere between indie and AAA. This exists to extent now but it is a small slice of the pie. I want a lot of the creative minds out there to feel like there is more opportunity than there is today to continue creating successfully and does not require one to go indie.
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Mar 20, 2015 15:20
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It's unfortunately not an easy problem to solve. Part of it is poor development processes but part of it is also struggling against public perception. Video games are expensive to make (and increasingly moreso) but a lot of people seem to treat them like they're made by people as a hobby in their basement by putting cash into a machine until graphics come out. Many reasonable cost-cutting measures are seen as 'lazy' or ''cheap' and earn the game a negative feedback. You can even see this in things like Kickstarters where there is negative feedback against developers budgeting for things like living wages or food. It obviously isn't entirely on gamers by any means and development studios need to do a lot to change their practices as well, but the entire industry is still sort of stuck in an increasingly outdated mindset. (Though indie developers and newcomers are a lot more flexible and able to adapt to what the industry actually is.)
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Mar 20, 2015 15:21
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I have always believed that the main focus towards solving this problem lies within development tools. As you say, development is very expensive. If there were better tools created which allow one developer to produce the same amount of work per month that 2+ developers can do today then that could reduce costs a lot. Same with graphics design. Of course, saying it like that makes it sound simple but I know it is far from that. Creating these kinds of tools in general is really hard to do and making them in a way where the result is a large jump in efficiency like that is even harder. Still, something needs to happen in order to cut costs without cutting quality so much.
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Mar 20, 2015 15:25
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Perhaps something could be done to unify development tools, something that can be used across the company for all projects. We'll call it... Crystal Tools...
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Mar 20, 2015 15:29
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Xavier434 posted:Popular content changes over time. It also makes come backs. We see this pattern over decades of history with all sorts of different kinds of content mediums. Resident Evil Revelations 2. More devs need to realize that a game that looks like Rev 2 is OK as long as the content is there and its fun.
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Mar 20, 2015 15:32
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Well the desire to create more efficient tools is only part of the problem. One can have the desire and even the right design ideas, but then how does one accumulate the resources to actually make it a reality? This, imo, goes back to the seemingly never ending industry and consumer thirst to chase after the graphics grail. People want "better graphics" all of the time and they want it all in 1080p 60fps. Before you know it, the demand will transform into 4k 60fps and the cycle will continue. So, instead of putting a lot of money into more efficient tools, most of the money is spent on upgrading tools to chase that graphics grail. I would love it if consumers and the industry decided to slow down that chase in favor of improving efficiency and lowering costs for a few years, but I know that is very unlikely to happen any time soon if ever. Anyways, that is as far as I am going to go off topic here. We can go back to complaining about Final Fantasy now.
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Mar 20, 2015 15:35
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Harrow posted:Assuming this whole thing is legit (and it probably is--sure, Kojima's departure is on April 1, but no company would pull poo poo like this for an April Fools joke), this is probably what it is. If I had to guess, Konami got fed up with Kojima's "this is my last Metal Gear, I swear" routine and made it clear they want Metal Gear to keep going indefinitely (and probably with more sequels, more quickly). If they have to get rid of Kojima to do it, so be it. The Japanese fiscal year runs from 1 April to 31 March. If this is an elaborate joke, it's in very poor taste. It's more likely that Konami's management was more concerned with the rate Metal Gear games were coming out and their sales rather than who exactly was making them. MGS4 was a huge multi-team production that was delayed for six months. Its engine wasn't useable for other games or cross platform development. The Fox Engine was originally in development for Metal Gear Rising when it was still being developed within Konami. However, Rising was in development hell and would've been cancelled if it wasn't for Platinum Games. MGS5 was in development for five years. It required the creation of a new studio in Los Angeles. From management's point of view, these were resources that could've gone into gambling/health/mobile gaming. KojiPro needs Konami to greenlight and fund their games. Konami no longer needs KojiPro in the current state they are in. They're probably more concerned with KojiPro's lack of productivity over the last ten years, especially when compared to Western rivals, than if Kojima is willing to head another game. KojiPro is not a Rockstar North that can take five years to make a game that sells 40+ million copies. Besides, Konami is already going ahead with the Metal Gear series under new recruits. Even if some fans are upset, most people will buy the games are good enough under a new team and meets the needs of a typical consumer. Metal Gear is intended to be a mainstream franchise with wide appeal. Most mainstream audiences play games to just pass the time or be a part of the conversation rather than get involved in the drama surrounding the production of the game. Dead Rising 2 was made from a different team than the original but most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Recently, Final Fantasy benefited from restructuring teams, kicking out old talent, and hiring new blood. What's interesting is that Konami has so openly talked about recruiting new talent for the Metal Gear series while this restructuring has been going on. Varance posted:The current generation of dedicated video hardware has created two really big problems: 1) Gamers have unrealistic expectations for quality/price and 2) it's really loving expensive to make a current-gen AAA game from scratch in a timely manner. Have you entertained the possibility that the big publishers are happy with the direction with the industry was heading? Even if publishers suffer alongside developers and consumers, they do get the added benefit of security. In many markets, big players are often willing to sacrifice profits to maintain stability. They do this by raising the costs of operating in the market. We often see this in industries such as oil drilling, telecommunications, and even Hollywood. If the cost of entering the market is high, then you're unlikely to see disruptive companies enter the AAA console gaming market. If you look at the top selling games in North America for each year for the last five years, you'll probably see Call of Duty/Battlefield/Halo or Destiny/Madden/Just Dance/Assassin's Creed. This generation, we'll see remasters of last generation games for consoles that don't have backwards compatibility. Consumers may not like the lack of variety but publishers appreciate the predictability of the market. The strategy is to simply make keep making the same types of games for the next year until the brand dies and you kill the development team. A rising tide will drown the small players and prevent them from challenging big publishers. Eventually, it will drown a big player like THQ. When that happens, the rest of the publishers feast on its corpse. This predictability is why we never saw serious support for the PC or Nintendo consoles. It's very frightening for a AAA publisher to see a market where a garage developer (Mojang) or a licensed game by small publisher (Jillian Michael's Fitness Ultimatum by Majesco) can become serious competition.
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Mar 20, 2015 16:26
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Sunning, what you are talking about is exactly why I want a middle tier market to become opportunistic and accessible. Those publishers can keep their AAA stranglehold. I just want there to be a reasonably secure place for the creators to create and sell without resorting to extremely low budgets and kickstarters.
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Mar 20, 2015 16:39
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Xavier434 posted:Sunning, what you are talking about is exactly why I want a middle tier market to become opportunistic and accessible. Those publishers can keep their AAA stranglehold. I just want there to be a reasonably secure place for the creators to create and sell without resorting to extremely low budgets and kickstarters. Capitalism abhors a middle class because a strong middle tier can easily become competition for the top tier. If Sunning's theory bears out and the top dogs really are happy with prohibitive costs because it protects their territory, I doubt they'd be much friendlier to fledgling intermediate publishers.
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Mar 20, 2015 16:47
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Mar 20, 2015 16:47
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Noctis is going to get his hands on that sandwich. He is a prince. He keeps what he kills.
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Mar 20, 2015 16:52
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Completely random but I was out at karaoke last night with some co-workers and having a Curtain Call high, I decided to do a quick search, and lo and behold, the karaoke machine had Eyes on Me. ... Yeah, I sang it.
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Mar 20, 2015 16:53
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Oxxidation posted:Capitalism abhors a middle class because a strong middle tier can easily become competition for the top tier. If Sunning's theory bears out and the top dogs really are happy with prohibitive costs because it protects their territory, I doubt they'd be much friendlier to fledgling intermediate publishers. You're right but they don't have to be friendlier to them. There just needs to be opportunities to make this stuff as well as enough consumer demand. Those opportunities are presently hard to come by mostly because the risk is too high. That risk is high because the costs are still very prohibitive which takes us back to the discussion about how to reduce those costs at least for a particular caliber of game which is between AAA and indie. Consumer demand will need to be present but not as high as what is needed for a "successful" AAA title due to the reduced development costs. I know this is the kind of stuff that dreams are made of but I still really want it and I do think that while the likelihood of it happening is low right now I also think that it is more probable than many other industries which face similar issues. Xavier434 fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 17:12
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"You're a brave man, Ringabel. Perhaps too brave." Bravely Default is literally the best loving Final Fantasy game. I started on it shortly after I downloaded FFXV and then I said "gently caress FFXV, I'm going to play Bravely Default more." This game is amazing. A-MAZING.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:30
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Gologle posted:"You're a brave man, Ringabel. Perhaps too brave." I loved what I played of the beginning of Bravely Default but then somebody spoiled me on the game and I've lost nearly all will to play it because of what I now know.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:32
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Gologle posted:"You're a brave man, Ringabel. Perhaps too brave." Bravely Default is a very good RPG, but your tune is going to change before it ends. If you beat it at all, that is. Still, you get your money's worth before it all goes downhill, so  "Mrrrgrgr!"
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Mar 20, 2015 17:35
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Bravely Default has absolutely fantastic combat mechanics but relatively poor dungeon design and general plot structure. Those fuckin' combat mechanics though.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:36
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Mischitary posted:I loved what I played of the beginning of Bravely Default but then somebody spoiled me on the game and I've lost nearly all will to play it because of what I now know. It's not nearly as bad as some people say. It goes like this: Yes, Chapters 5 through 8 are repeats of what you've already done in Chapters 1 through 4, but in fast forward. That said, you can absolutely sail right through it by turning off random encounters and just beelining for the Crystals in each cycle. It's worth noting that the Asterisk bosses can be refought in each cycle and they're slightly different each time. In Chapter 6, fighting them all unlocks new scenes and the last new job. In Chapter 7, they team up in groups of three for some pretty fun fights and scenes. In Chapter 8, they team up in groups of four, have more fun new scenes, and are some great boss fights. Then, you can rematch them in different groups of four that are honestly pretty clever and some of those fights are hard as hell. People tend to exaggerate how repetitive the end gets (unless they just didn't know they can turn off random encounters any time). Bravely Default owns hard. My biggest complaint is that the dungeon design is pretty bland all the way through, but the boss fights (especially in the later chapters), job system, and dialogue more than make up for it.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:36
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Gologle posted:"You're a brave man, Ringabel. Perhaps too brave."  gently caress the haters, I love BD. I put it at 5 on my best of 2013 list, but if I could redo it I'd put it at 3.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:36
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Zaphod42 posted:Bravely Default is a very good RPG, but your tune is going to change before it ends. If you beat it at all, that is. I dunno. Just turn off random encounters and the repetitive parts fly right on by. ImpAtom posted:Bravely Default has absolutely fantastic combat mechanics but relatively poor dungeon design and general plot structure. Agree 100%. The plot structure is kinda... eh, and the dungeons are boring corridors, but the combat mechanics and resultant boss fights are awesome.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:39
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I like the combat and job system so much in Bravely Default that I totally ignore the plot and dungeon design. The amount of ways you can break that game are amazing, not to mention the later bosses kinda expect you to know how to break the system
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Mar 20, 2015 17:41
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I brickwalled on the Fire Crystal boss and just put it down and never came back. I should probably take another shot at it someday, but right now I got Yggdrasil labyrinths to explore.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:42
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Hint for the Fire Boss: Items ignore defense, so feel free to use those when he has his shield up.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:44
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Hint for new Bravely Default players: almost every dangerous attack in the game is physical. Yes, even the elemental ones. Dragon breathing fire and wrecking your poo poo? Find a way to evade or block physical attacks and you're set. This is true for your characters, too. Physical attackers put magical attackers to shame past the early game. Even the game's version of Blue Mage is actually secretly a physical character. They can learn very powerful magical skills, but all of the strongest attacks they get are physical, so give them Two-Handed and an axe or a sword so they can get the most out of it. Golden Goat posted:I like the combat and job system so much in Bravely Default that I totally ignore the plot and dungeon design. Yeah, that was my favorite part. I really, really do not recommend going into the Chapter 8 boss fights without a BP battery character, and someone should probably have Spiritmaster and/or Templar hanging out as a secondary ability for emergency attack blocking. ...I'm gonna have to play this again soon, aren't I?
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Mar 20, 2015 17:44
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What's that Neanderthal doing with that sandwich?
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Mar 20, 2015 17:46
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Harrow posted:It's not nearly as bad as some people say. Oh alright. The way I've heard people talk about it, it made me want to not get too invested. Sucked too because five is my favorite of the Final Fantasies and Bravely Default was pretty much a knock-off of Final Fantasy V's formula. If it's not all that bad I might just pick it up again.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:47
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The fact that the later bosses in Bravely default assumed that you were actually competent at the game was really refreshing. Almost all RPGs get far too easy if you do any optimization at all.
Andrast fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 17:49
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Mischitary posted:Oh alright. The way I've heard people talk about it, it made me want to not get too invested. Sucked too because five is my favorite of the Final Fantasies and Bravely Default was pretty much a knock-off of Final Fantasy V's formula. If it's not all that bad I might just pick it up again. I'll be honest: if I couldn't turn off random encounters, I would've stopped playing. I'll admit that freely. The ability to turn off the encounters and just rush through the boring parts is a game-changer. If you do play it, my advice is to skip the side quests in Chapter 5 if you think they'll be boring. There's new dialogue, but it's all in Chapter 6, too, and in Chapter 6, you get to unlock a new job for doing them all. Definitely do all the side quests in Chapters 7 and 8, though, because they've got great boss fights and dialogue. Andrast posted:The fact that the later bosses in Bravely default actually assumed that you were actually competent at the game was really refreshing. Almost all RPGs get far too easy if you do any optimization at all. I played on Hard specifically because I wanted the game to expect me to know how to play it, so I was thrilled by the last few Chapters' worth of bosses. The Chapter 8 optional bosses are so much fun to fight. A couple of the bosses even made me change up my party's jobs a bit (because I was relying on status ailments for BP and I really needed to block them for those fights). That said, I didn't go for full Stillness cheese. My Tiz had a Spiritmaster sub-job for emergency Stillness, but mostly I just used him to block elements and then kick rear end as Blue Mage with his main job. It's a good game for finding job combinations that are both fun and effective, too. If I play again, I'll probably just end up using the exact same final team, because it was so powerful and so fun at the same time. Harrow fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 17:50
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I got through literally the entire second half of Bravely Default with the same setup and took almost no damage the whole way through. It's almost too exploitable.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:52
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Pureauthor posted:Hint for the Fire Boss: Items ignore defense, so feel free to use those when he has his shield up. If that's the one I'm thinking of I had so much fun making up a strategy using jump to avoid the brunt of his damage.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:52
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ImpAtom posted:Bravely Default has absolutely fantastic combat mechanics but relatively poor dungeon design and general plot structure. Yeah being able to gamble ahead on your turns when you know you can probably one-shot the enemy if you do feels so good that I want it in all future RPGs. Its like the Earthbound mechanic where you automatically win fights against vastly weaker mobs, but made more strategically interesting. Harrow posted:Bravely Default owns hard. My biggest complaint is that the dungeon design is pretty bland all the way through, but the boss fights (especially in the later chapters), job system, and dialogue more than make up for it. Yeah, its like Pokemon dungeon design, which is not a particularly great thing.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:55
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah, its like Pokemon dungeon design, which is not a particularly great thing. More interesting dungeons is my #1 wish for Bravely Second. Like, they could keep the rest of the gameplay exactly the same (and it looks like they are) and just give me better dungeons and I'll be thrilled.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:57
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seiferguy posted:Completely random but I was out at karaoke last night with some co-workers and having a Curtain Call high, I decided to do a quick search, and lo and behold, the karaoke machine had Eyes on Me. I'm so proud of you.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:59
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah, its like Pokemon dungeon design, which is not a particularly great thing. I'm making my way through BD and the lovely dungeon design really sticks out when you get to the Swordbearer's fort, Starkfort. On the outside it looks all big and impressive, I got all excited to go in and it's just a generic dungeon.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:02
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I was having a blast with Bravely Default but kinda stopped playing it because that's just what I tend to do in the middle of JRPGs. Last I remember the party met a pervy old man anime stereotype in a forest. I should pick that game back up againZaphod42 posted:Yeah, its like Pokemon dungeon design, which is not a particularly great thing. More like NES Final Fantasy dungeon design, where they''re basically just mazes with enemies. Unless later dungeons start throwing in annoying puzzles like in Pokemon that are just time sinks for spamming random encounters at you while you solve them Augus fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 18:08
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 Good Gravy!
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Mar 20, 2015 18:10
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Terper posted:
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Mar 20, 2015 18:12
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I will always have a soft spot for Bravely Default' combat system and how hilariously broken you can force it to be. Also it's dumb but one shotting an undead boss with 200K HP in a single action (pop Bravely Second to eliminate the damage cap, throw an elixir at the boss) never got old.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:34
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Terper posted:
And it won all the awards.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:39
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Nihilarian posted:I am so down with the musketeer class, whatever it does. That's actually what their Freelancer outfits look like this time around. Three of those characters are part of a Three Musketeers unit and that's their uniform. That said, new jobs apparently include such things as Cat Master, Patissier (weaken enemies and buff allies with pastry!), and Tomahawk (use a gun that is also an axe!). Let's hope this one doesn't take like two years to get to the West.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:56
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