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I'm pretty sure I got at least 3 of my characters to level 100 when I played this game as an idiot kid. I still don't remember it being hard because I had 100 Auras.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:48
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On my last FFVIII playthrough when using the Requiem mod, my game time was 120 hours. (that's not counting the many, MANY deaths which aren't factored into game time) I didn't leave for Timber until about 15 hours into the game. See, I had never seriously played Triple Triad before and I kinda got addicted. Probably about 10 hours of that 15 was me grinding TT cards. I'm not actually any good at the game mind you but I could BS my way to victory under normal rules. Mostly I was having fun learning about the different cards and what they could be modded into. In the normal ame I would have been loving invincible. It's so easy to get 100 Tornado's.
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Mar 19, 2015 01:04
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ApplesandOranges posted:It's a shame because the last boss of Disc 1 would actually be fairly intelligently designed if the Junction system didn't rip it to bits. If I'm remembering right, not only do junctions rip that fight to bits, you can actually break the bosses AI quite easily.
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Mar 19, 2015 03:35
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I checked. The mod I was referring to is the battle hardcore patch. Apparently, with this, the game is still much too easy with even the highest difficulty setting and the thread I found ended with someone recommending requiem.
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Mar 19, 2015 03:35
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I never played through this game, and this is the first LP I've seen that isn't absolutely ripping on the game left and right. It's refreshing. Thanks, Ghost, keep up the good work. Thinking back on balance, the most fun games I've played have been dynamically stable in terms of difficulty. Mathematically speaking, a dynamically stable difficulty passively becomes easier if it's too hard, and passively becomes harder if it's too easy, without resorting to tricks like rubber banding. It prevents divergent conditions where the game becomes too easy and stays there, or progressively hard to the point where you quit and never come back. I cut my teeth on FF6 and Chrono Trigger, and so I'll use the standard JRPG formula as an example of what I mean by stable. You start out and you're weak, and the enemies are weak. As you fight enemies in a specific region, you get stronger and the fights get easier, with diminishing rewards; conversely, the more you advance the plot the harder enemies get, and the more strength you get from beating them. If the game is too easy for you, you'll blaze through plot points without gaining strength until you hit something difficult, hopefully not a brick wall. If the game is a bit too difficult, going back a bit and spending time grinding will build you up enough to make the combat beatable. This helps to anchor the game's pace, and also gives you a sense of the characters getting stronger. As I understand it, it's not that FF8's combat is too easy; instead, FF8's difficulty as implemented is dynamically unstable:
Unilaterally making the game more difficult across the board a la Requiem addresses #2 and perhaps #4 above, but doesn't really fix the core stability problem. It just moves the starting condition from "diverging to too easy" over to "diverging to too hard". Changing too much, like attaching character stat gains to level up, would take away what makes the junction system unique. But you might be able to fix the first problem by getting rid of the scaled enemy lists and basing enemy strength on how far into the plot you are. I think you could still leave stat junctions in, but maybe tie the effective junction strength to character level somehow, so that spending time leveling up actually benefits you. The items necessary for the junctions should be rare enough that you really would need to grind some playing cards or drawing from specific enemies to max them out, but common enough that you could max out a few less desirable junctions by disc 2 or 3 of a casual playthrough. And they also need to be item or plot gated such that you can't just grind all the top tier junctions out in disc 1. I like the idea of two independent pieces being necessary for optimal strength: a combat part and a noncombat part, each balanced so that the benefits from ONLY spending time on one yields diminishing returns. And then as the plot progresses, your increasing strength should be pitted against more difficult enemies. rabiddeity fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Mar 19, 2015 |
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Mar 19, 2015 05:07
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ultrafilter posted:For the plot?  Oh, I have to admit, this made me laugh a lot more than it really should have.
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Mar 19, 2015 05:52
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Something that just occurred to me is that Quistis might be worried about having yelled at Rinoa because the last time she took that tone with someone was Seifer after the SeeD exam and it ended very poorly.
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Mar 19, 2015 07:09
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Cool Ghost posted:Something that just occurred to me is that Quistis might be worried about having yelled at Rinoa because the last time she took that tone with someone was Seifer after the SeeD exam and it ended very poorly. Which would have been nice if they explained her thought process so it doesn't come off like she's going off to apologise for making Rinoa cry.
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Mar 19, 2015 07:15
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This game loves being subtle. Sometimes it's really awesome and sometimes it's ridiculous. Quistis' behavior in this sequence is probably a good example of it being not so good. The player has to rationalize it for themselves and infer a lot, and when you don't really get into anyone's head besides Squall's that can be pretty hard to do.
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Mar 19, 2015 07:24
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So I figure I've insulted FFVIII enough and I'd like to say something positive about it while it's on my mind. Remember when our heroes went to the Timber TV Station and Squall kinda bitched out Rinoa? Whoever your other party member is, they'll sidle on up to you and say "hey, you're being kind of an rear end in a top hat. Wanna lay off?" You can choose to apologize to Rinoa or continue to lay into her. Now FFVIII is no Western RPG but there is a surprising amount of dialogue choices in this game when compared to FFVII or FFIX. There will be some significant ones in the future and the reason i like these is because you can kinda make your own Squall. Everyone remembers his infamous "go talk to a wall" line to Quistis, and later on you have some dialogue options that are just as dickish, but I'm a nice guy and I always pick the Nice Guy Options when those dialogue choices come up. So I think of Squall Leonhart as more or less a nice guy, or at least he develops into one. That is just something neat I found myself enjoying last time I played the game. I think it might have to do with a fan theory I read on this very forum at some point in the past, about how Squall and Rinoa are the only party members you can name and the significance of this fact. The poster put forth the idea the two characters are self-inserts for people playing the game. So the reason Squall would get a relatively high amount of dialogue choices is so you can put more of "you" into your avatar. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Mar 19, 2015 |
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Mar 19, 2015 10:09
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When you get right down to it I imagine a lot of the problems here could be solved with some cell phones or two-way radios. Except for that pesky worldwide ECM.
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Mar 19, 2015 17:13
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Extra Tasty posted:This game loves being subtle. Sometimes it's really awesome and sometimes it's ridiculous. Quistis' behavior in this sequence is probably a good example of it being not so good. The player has to rationalize it for themselves and infer a lot, and when you don't really get into anyone's head besides Squall's that can be pretty hard to do. I agree. The problem is you can come up with a theory about events and at the end of your explanation, you're never sure if the other person will think "wow, that was subtle, nice catch" or "you're a total crackpot." It loves being subtle a little too much. FF8.txt
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Mar 19, 2015 17:19
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Kajeesus posted:Leon is basically a more emotionally mature (read: older) Squall, which I assume goes for Dissidia's Squall as well. I think that's a pretty fair way to make alternate universe versions of the man, and the opposite of what was done to Cloud. Basically, yeah. Dissidia's Squall is a post-FF8 Squall from what I can tell (so don't go pokin around for those who want to avoid spoiling the LP). On the other hand, I have to assume that every Cloud used outside FF7 is plucked from Disc 1. That also goes for Advent Children which baffles me. The Cloud by the end of FF7 is such a likable character that shows growth, but emo sad guy is the one the Japanese want I guess.
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Mar 20, 2015 02:43
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SonicRulez posted:Basically, yeah. Dissidia's Squall is a post-FF8 Squall from what I can tell (so don't go pokin around for those who want to avoid spoiling the LP). On the other hand, I have to assume that every Cloud used outside FF7 is plucked from Disc 1. That also goes for Advent Children which baffles me. The Cloud by the end of FF7 is such a likable character that shows growth, but emo sad guy is the one the Japanese want I guess. Crisis Core is the only exception I know of, and even there he's not exactly chipper. Still, it makes sense for 14 year old Cloud to be a bit down, being a Shinra Grunt and all. Also one of several reasons people like Crisis Core, for all its faults it actually remembers what FFVII itself was like most of the time and tries to synch up with it.
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Mar 20, 2015 03:01
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Cloud is kind of dying in Advent Children. Plus that little kid is also dying. I can understand being bummed because of these two facts. No idea what the gently caress is going on in Kingdom Hearts or Dissidia however.
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Mar 20, 2015 04:12
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In Kingdom Hearts, Cloud was supposed to slowly be consumed by the Darkness, but at the last moment, they changed it to Sephiroth.
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Mar 20, 2015 04:31
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Kheldarn posted:In Kingdom Hearts, Cloud was supposed to slowly be consumed by the Darkness, but at the last moment, they changed it to Sephiroth. He's slowly being consumed by Sephiroth?
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Mar 20, 2015 05:03
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Son Ryo posted:He's slowly being consumed by Sephiroth? I'm sure there's fan art of that out there....
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Mar 20, 2015 05:09
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Son Ryo posted:He's slowly being consumed by Sephiroth? No, Sephiroth is theorized to be his version of "Vanitas". Basically, Cloud is the "Light" and Sephiroth is the "Darkness". What baffles me, is that TIFA for some odd reason has a heart of pure light, and can GIVE THAT LIGHT AWAY.
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Mar 20, 2015 05:11
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Silegna posted:No, Sephiroth is theorized to be his version of "Vanitas". Basically, Cloud is the "Light" and Sephiroth is the "Darkness". What baffles me, is that TIFA for some odd reason has a heart of pure light, and can GIVE THAT LIGHT AWAY. I think the point is that Tifa is the personification of Cloud's light, just like Sephiroth is of his darkness. The entire plot is really silly, but it does give one hell of a post-game boss so I'm not complaining.
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Mar 20, 2015 05:59
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NikkolasKing posted:No idea what the gently caress is going on in Kingdom Hearts or Dissidia however. Funny story about Kingdom Hearts: Leon was supposed to be Cloud and Cloud was supposed to be Vincent. The original "Hollow Bastion Group" was originally intended to be Final Fantasy 7 characters only - you can see remnants of this in Yuffie, Aeris, and Cid making up the majority of the group. Meanwhile, Vincent was originally intended to appear in Olympius Coliseum being moody and powerful and generally dangerous because it was felt that his character and personal story arc fit the whole "darkness corrupts" theme of Kingdom Hearts rather well. However, this presented two problems: 1. Vincent was deemed "too serious" because of his gunslinging nature and also the whole "transforms into horrific monsters" shindig. 2. FFVII was really over-represented compared to the other Final Fantasy games, especially because Sephiroth was signed on as a bonus boss pretty much the instant that Final Fantasy was brought into the mix. To fix these problems, Cloud was moved to Vincent's role, inheriting Vincent's planned personality and a handful of Vincent's design aspects (Cloud wears Vincent's cloak, gauntlet, and enters a rage mode when you fight him, something that was originally intended to be Vincent becoming Chaos). To fill the void in the Hollow Bastion group, Squall was placed in Cloud's leader role, gaining all of Cloud's personality in the process. So technically, Endgame Cloud is still there, he's just stuck underneath a pile of Leon. Kith fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 06:40
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Kithrixx posted:Funny story about Kingdom Hearts I knew that Cloud replaced Vincent, but I had no idea that Squall took over what Cloud was intended to be. That makes a lot more sense. I had always wondered why Squall's gang wasn't Rinoa, Zell, and Quistis or Selplhie. Crisis Core has one of my favorite Square-Enix storylines, but it's buried under some of the most tedious gameplay ever. I'd recommend just watching it on YT like a movie.
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Mar 20, 2015 15:50
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Are there any graphic enhancement packs for the PC version or Steam version? I kind of want to play this.
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Mar 21, 2015 05:33
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The_Frag_Man posted:Are there any graphic enhancement packs for the PC version or Steam version? I kind of want to play this. Just play it. If you won't enjoy it without some kind of graphical update, you probably won't enjoy it period. The graphics are dated, but they aren't terrible. Alternatively, if you have a PS3, just buy it on there because it's $2 cheaper and play it on a TV.
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Mar 21, 2015 07:30
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Cool Ghost posted:
Riona just waving her hand at her dad shows a lot about her character and why she why it's disliked a lot. She's having a tantrum. The manual might say she's only a teenager but again she's still acting like the spoiled rich kid here who wanted to play soldier. Rinoa isn't fighting Galbadia, the Sorceress or even to save Timber, she's rebelling against her dad because she wants to play with the poor kids and he isn't letting her. The fact that Quistis them goes back to apologise for saying this to her make it even more annoying, never mind all the craziness of doing it in the middle of a mission to assassinate a head of state. But ...Whatever.
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Mar 21, 2015 08:12
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Weavered posted:Riona just waving her hand at her dad shows a lot about her character and why she why it's disliked a lot. She's having a tantrum. The manual might say she's only a teenager but again she's still acting like the spoiled rich kid here who wanted to play soldier. Rinoa isn't fighting Galbadia, the Sorceress or even to save Timber, she's rebelling against her dad because she wants to play with the poor kids and he isn't letting her. I don't think we've ever read anything specifically about why she left for Timber, and it seems awfully presumptuous to just say it's only teenage rebellion. In part, sure, but there are plenty of ways to rebel without actually taking up arms in resistance to a very large and influential world power occupying a city that you moved to. She's given plenty of indication that she cares about what's going on, and while she clearly doesn't have a working relationship with her father for reasons heretofore unexplained, it is something that affects the "how" of what she is doing, not the "why". it's just coincidence that SeeD had to go meet with her dad.
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Mar 21, 2015 08:21
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morallyobjected posted:I don't think we've ever read anything specifically about why she left for Timber, and it seems awfully presumptuous to just say it's only teenage rebellion. In part, sure, but there are plenty of ways to rebel without actually taking up arms in resistance to a very large and influential world power occupying a city that you moved to. She's given plenty of indication that she cares about what's going on, and while she clearly doesn't have a working relationship with her father for reasons heretofore unexplained, it is something that affects the "how" of what she is doing, not the "why". it's just coincidence that SeeD had to go meet with her dad. It comes across as the main reason and the "why", I really don't think it's "overly presumptuous". She's a teenager doing anything to annoy her dad, and the wave and the rest of the exchange shows that she couldn't care less about anything he's got to say. What's killing Riona more here though is the fact that this is the biggest  she's been realistically able to achieve, killing the sorceress her dad's new boss, and it's dad again who's keeping her out of all the fun.
Weavered fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 08:40
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Weavered posted:It comes across as the main reason and the "why", I really don't think it's "overly presumptuous". She's a teenager doing anything to annoy her dad, and the wave and the rest of the exchange shows that she couldn't care less about anything he's got to say. I dunno, we could make the case that Rinoa is very sincere in her It doesn't help that her plans are not really well thought, just like a spoiled child would do. Or maybe that's something she learned from daddy: He gets 6 mercenary teenagers, most of them newbies at special operations, and he plans the most contrived situation possible to kill a target who could blow them but with a thought. Bonus points for having just one of them do the killing from a long distance, instead of using all 6 and use some off-duty soldiers for the heavy lifting. How I would do it? Create a diversion for the security forces along the parade, then have the SeeDs jump from the crowd into the float, weapons and magic ready. Even if the Sorceress can kill one or two instantly, the rest should be able to kill or mortally wound her. And I wouldn't certainly be chilling back at my swank mansion watching my brat daughter. He's a general! He should be there giving orders to the soldiers so the security has holes for the SeeDs to use. Between this and him not giving Squall the Odine bangle in case they needed it, it seems like he was setting them all up for failure.
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Mar 21, 2015 12:17
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Weavered posted:It comes across as the main reason and the "why", I really don't think it's "overly presumptuous". She's a teenager doing anything to annoy her dad, and the wave and the rest of the exchange shows that she couldn't care less about anything he's got to say. it's not even her dad that's stopping her from doing anything, so I think you just really like this idea of yours. she's sitting there because Quistis told her off, and Caraway just reiterates what Quistis says and tells her she's not a trained fighter. he was going to lock her in, but that is not something he directly threatens her with--she just knows him too well and gets out of it. she was already pissed off from Quistis and Caraway wasn't going to make anything better, but he is not the reason she is upset at all. it seems obvious that she couldn't really care less about what he thinks; she just wants to prove to Quistis/rest of SeeDs that she is serious and can get things done. which, I mean, she can't, but that's what she wants
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Mar 21, 2015 15:32
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When you look at Rinoa's plan in comparison to the plan we're executing, it's really not that bad. The main thing we know about the Sorceress at this moment is that she has real magic, unlike our para-magic. We don't know what that means, though. Could she force the gate open when we shut it? Is she bulletproof? So Rinoa's plan is to neutralize her magic before killing her, which gets at the real root of the problem. Of course, what she does isn't a good way to implement it, because she's not a trained soldier or general. But because she's none of those things, she figures out the real issue instead of focusing on following orders.
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Mar 21, 2015 15:53
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Kal-L posted:Between this and him not giving Squall the Odine bangle in case they needed it, it seems like he was setting them all up for failure. Rinoa said herself the Odine bangle wasn't fully tested. Why would you bring in an unknown element to the equation? Besides, Caraway only returned to the mansion to ensure Rinoa stayed locked in while the SeeDs were presumably preoccupied with the mission (especially since he couldn't do it while Squall and co. were still around, since Rinoa's their client). We don't know where he is now, just not in his house (otherwise he'd have noticed Rinoa slipping out/Quistis and the gang being locked in).
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Mar 21, 2015 16:05
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ApplesandOranges posted:Rinoa said herself the Odine bangle wasn't fully tested. Why would you bring in an unknown element to the equation? As we just saw, it didn't really work anyway, if anything, it had some type of weird backlash when she tried to give it to the Sorceress. Also, yeah, I don't think the SeeDs would take kindly to their client being locked up.
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Mar 21, 2015 19:00
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I'm surprised nobody's pointed out yet a(nother) rather critical failure in Rinoa's execution: she just introduced herself to the sorceress and said she was there on behalf of her father, General Caraway, as she tries to sneak an antimagic bracelet onto the murderous witch. So if the assassination fails, Edea already has a target lined up for vengeance. Good work, Rinoa.
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Mar 21, 2015 19:45
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Suddenly, I wonder if this game is not about Teenagers Being Bad At Life but a metaphor the production process at Square--everybody's incompetent (but imagine themselves to be amazing auteurs), rife with emotional/family problems, the plans suck, and just plain bad luck all add up to a great big mess. In which case Final Fantasy VIII is secretly Squaresoft staff's cry for help.
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Mar 21, 2015 20:12
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dotchan posted:Suddenly, I wonder if this game is not about Teenagers Being Bad At Life but a metaphor the production process at Square--everybody's incompetent (but imagine themselves to be amazing auteurs), rife with emotional/family problems, the plans suck, and just plain bad luck all add up to a great big mess. In which case Final Fantasy VIII is secretly Squaresoft staff's cry for help. You've cracked the code now, this SeeD team is the group behind ff13.
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Mar 21, 2015 20:14
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ApplesandOranges posted:Rinoa said herself the Odine bangle wasn't fully tested. Why would you bring in an unknown element to the equation? Zell (yeah, I know) said that Odine brand is top-notch when it comes to magic items. And the bangle nullifying her magic could be read as protecting the wearer from it. Rinoa trying to make the Sorceress wear it is like trying to put the shark inside the anti-shark cage divers use.
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Mar 21, 2015 20:23
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The whole bangle thing seems Reaalllly forced here, Rinoa just pulls this mcguffin out of her rear end.
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Mar 21, 2015 20:33
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dotchan posted:Suddenly, I wonder if this game is not about Teenagers Being Bad At Life but a metaphor the production process at Square--everybody's incompetent (but imagine themselves to be amazing auteurs), rife with emotional/family problems, the plans suck, and just plain bad luck all add up to a great big mess. In which case Final Fantasy VIII is secretly Squaresoft staff's cry for help. I don't think most of the SeeD team thinks they're amazing. Squall alone talks frequently about how they're dealing with things they shouldn't be, but he just follows orders anyway. Quistis already has to face the fact that she was sub par due to being recently demoted. The only actual member who is awesome and acts that way is Selphie. Lavender menace posted:The whole bangle thing seems Reaalllly forced here, Rinoa just pulls this mcguffin out of her rear end. I dunno. Makes sense the leader of the Galbadian military has some experimental military poo poo lying around. Especially since he's been apparently planning a coup. Kal-L posted:Zell (yeah, I know) said that Odine brand is top-notch when it comes to magic items. And the bangle nullifying her magic could be read as protecting the wearer from it. Rinoa trying to make the Sorceress wear it is like trying to put the shark inside the anti-shark cage divers use. It makes more sense later when we get introduced to Odine that the bangle would do what Rinoa thinks it will do. but even if it were that, it would mean she couldn't cure/shell/protect herself when our top-notch sharpshooter is taking his mark. 
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Mar 21, 2015 21:43
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Kal-L posted:Zell (yeah, I know) said that Odine brand is top-notch when it comes to magic items.
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Mar 21, 2015 22:15
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RareAcumen posted:You've cracked the code now, this SeeD team is the group behind ff13. Does that make Irvine the guy who spent a year rendering a rock as realistically as possible?
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Mar 21, 2015 22:35
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