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Apparently 400 people didn't hurt their wallet though. That makes it ethically okay!
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Mar 20, 2015 21:29
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The response seems to be that they're going to re-write the material, and this time, consult experts, though? I mean, Cook's sandbagging was despicable and describing the petition as libel is hyperbole, but in terms of the product itself, isn't it actually a good thing that they're going to remove the racist poo poo and replace it with, hopefully, something a lot better? I don't have a dog in this race, I never owned the product in question and don't have an interest in it. But this seems like a good thing: quote:We have decided to replace the current Thunder Plains material in The Strange with a different Native American themed recursion. We will create this recursion alongside the Native writers with whom we’re already talking. Future printings will contain the new material, and the PDF versions will be altered with a free electronic update. The recursion will also be available to everyone as a free ebook.
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Mar 20, 2015 21:29
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Leperflesh posted:The response seems to be that they're going to re-write the material, and this time, consult experts, though? I mean, Cook's sandbagging was despicable and describing the petition as libel is hyperbole, but in terms of the product itself, isn't it actually a good thing that they're going to remove the racist poo poo and replace it with, hopefully, something a lot better? Obviously if the new version is better I think it'd be dumb to keep making GBS threads on it but until then I got no faith in him when he's pouting and huffing his way through the rewrite.
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Mar 20, 2015 21:30
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Leperflesh posted:The response seems to be that they're going to re-write the material, and this time, consult experts, though? I mean, Cook's sandbagging was despicable and describing the petition as libel is hyperbole, but in terms of the product itself, isn't it actually a good thing that they're going to remove the racist poo poo and replace it with, hopefully, something a lot better? They're couching it in terms of only the quiet natives who treat them with respect are allowed to give them advice. Which is poo poo.
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Mar 20, 2015 21:37
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And people always go "Cirno why are you so ANGRY and why do you hate this hobby so much???"Leperflesh posted:The response seems to be that they're going to re-write the material, and this time, consult experts, though? I mean, Cook's sandbagging was despicable and describing the petition as libel is hyperbole, but in terms of the product itself, isn't it actually a good thing that they're going to remove the racist poo poo and replace it with, hopefully, something a lot better? They're doing it because they were forced to, but they sure as hell are going to snap and attack everyone who pushed them this far.
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Mar 20, 2015 22:06
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dwarf74 posted:He was already there on account of being a lovely designer who loves wizards a bit too much. Well there are two handed hammers but they're all in weird non-core books. I have no idea why. One of them was actually the best melee weapon in the game, but good luck getting a Monte Cook style GM to approve your weapon from the 4th monster manual.
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Mar 20, 2015 22:38
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dwarf74 posted:Randomly, he's the reason there's no 2-handed hammers in 3.x. Wait, what?
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Mar 20, 2015 22:47
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Evil Mastermind posted:Wait, what? It may have been regarding its inclusion or exclusion (don't remember) in Arcana Unearthed, which I was like a superfan of back in the early Aughts. Sadly I can't find it on Google. dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 23:34
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Leperflesh posted:The response seems to be that they're going to re-write the material, and this time, consult experts, though? I mean, Cook's sandbagging was despicable and describing the petition as libel is hyperbole, but in terms of the product itself, isn't it actually a good thing that they're going to remove the racist poo poo and replace it with, hopefully, something a lot better? It's a good thing, sure. It's drowned out that it only came because people dragged the company through mud to force them to acknowledge it, and they only propose changing it while talking out the side of their mouth about how you people from Native populations clearly can't let people have nice things like our Native peoples do.
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Mar 21, 2015 01:00
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Ceterum censeo, Tradgames esse delendam
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Mar 21, 2015 01:02
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I would like to know how many petitioners would be needed before they qualified as "a lot". There are more people signing this petition than there are people who shared MCGs original "open discussion" about it. e:Actually, hah. They're claiming the petition "didn't get much support" but that they totally got "lots of comments". 417 versus 159, which number is bigger and which goes where? Anyone wanna take a stab at that riddle? Rulebook Heavily fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 01:15
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Speaking of indigenous populations in gaming, Varg Vikernes finally self-published MYFAROG, his D&D heartbreaker "based on European values, geography, (pre-) history, mythology, traditions and morals, and will offer you the opportunity to play a game in accordance with your own European nature." That is all.
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Mar 21, 2015 02:01
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Halloween Jack posted:Speaking of indigenous populations in gaming, Varg Vikernes finally self-published MYFAROG, his D&D heartbreaker "based on European values, geography, (pre-) history, mythology, traditions and morals, and will offer you the opportunity to play a game in accordance with your own European nature." Stormfront: The RPG
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Mar 21, 2015 02:05
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The problem with D&D, in my opinion, is that it isn't based on European values.
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Mar 21, 2015 02:05
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Just remember, James Raggi apparently likes Varg. An oroboros of poo poo etc etc
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Mar 21, 2015 02:09
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You have to be a special kind of idiot to take Vikernes seriously. I mean besides the racist poo poo, he's literally an idiot and crazy to boot.
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Mar 21, 2015 02:14
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I wonder how many people Raggi publishes will pull products or call him on it in a way that has real impact. No one, I don't have to wonder, gently caress.
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Mar 21, 2015 02:18
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Halloween Jack posted:Speaking of indigenous populations in gaming, Varg Vikernes finally self-published MYFAROG, his D&D heartbreaker "based on European values, geography, (pre-) history, mythology, traditions and morals, and will offer you the opportunity to play a game in accordance with your own European nature." All I know about that is there's a video of Varg loving around and doing cartwheels in a suit of chainmail in his backyard to decide what the movement penalty for armor should be. Also what kind of title is MYFROG.
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Mar 21, 2015 02:25
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417 signatures is 10% of the people who backed Numenara's kickstarter. Seems significant to me, but what do I know.
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Mar 21, 2015 02:45
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Halloween Jack posted:Speaking of indigenous populations in gaming, Varg Vikernes finally self-published MYFAROG, his D&D heartbreaker "based on European values, geography, (pre-) history, mythology, traditions and morals, and will offer you the opportunity to play a game in accordance with your own European nature." The credits page for this game is pretty much where you need to stop. quote:Inspirational RPGs It's a sad little mixture of racist shitheads and the author gesturing with an unlit cigar. e: My favorite thing is that the whole book is apparently written in Papyrus. Tulul fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 02:57
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Don't you be talking poo poo about my homeboy, M. Aurelius.
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Mar 21, 2015 02:59
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Soooo a man decided to look at Thunder Plains for real, get real people opinions on it and oh yes discovered that it has a statistic that says that only 15% of the racist caricature people on the Thunder Plains are fully sentient beings. The lowest among all the Recursions in the game, including the one full of intelligent crows. https://storify.com/MCSerf/a-critical-look-at-the-thunder-plains I don't think this rabbit hole ends anymore.
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Mar 21, 2015 03:04
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I'm not super familiar with this setting, but it kinda looks like they could have just reskinned the whole thing as druids/ European pagans and saved themselves a lot of trouble. It worked for Skyrim.
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Mar 21, 2015 03:19
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I've been giving Monte Cook and friends some more benefit of the doubt than I should because I kind of liked Numenera, at least for the setting, and because I've got a knee-jerk reaction to people who use words like "erasure" after looking at that thread about Tumblr on GBS, but what the gently caress is this poo poo. This looks like something I'd find in an Old World of Darkness supplement. Why would you release something like this in 2015 and claim its actually super good for the Native American community?
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Mar 21, 2015 03:39
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SunAndSpring posted:I've been giving Monte Cook and friends some more benefit of the doubt than I should because I kind of liked Numenera, at least for the setting, and because I've got a knee-jerk reaction to people who use words like "erasure" after looking at that thread about Tumblr on GBS, but what the gently caress is this poo poo. This looks like something I'd find in an Old World of Darkness supplement. Why would you release something like this in 2015 and claim its actually super good for the Native American community? Because they figured that since Bruce Cordell knows Natives, has Native relatives, that they had an accurate picture, and the people assailing them were just tumblr types, who would never be satisfied. Also, they didn't really figure what having a minority of people actually be people in their game world meant.
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Mar 21, 2015 03:47
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Rulebook Heavily posted:Soooo a man decided to look at Thunder Plains for real Also, hoooooly shitballs, what a loving mess.
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Mar 21, 2015 04:18
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Rulebook Heavily posted:Soooo a man decided to look at Thunder Plains for real, get real people opinions on it and oh yes discovered that it has a statistic that says that only 15% of the racist caricature people on the Thunder Plains are fully sentient beings. The lowest among all the Recursions in the game, including the one full of intelligent crows. All I can imagine thanks to this nonsense is that the 'one full of intelligent crows' is full of those minstrel show crows from Dumbo.
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Mar 21, 2015 05:11
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Tatum Girlparts posted:All I can imagine thanks to this nonsense is that the 'one full of intelligent crows' is full of those minstrel show crows from Dumbo. Don't worry, though, the author knows some black people.
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Mar 21, 2015 06:22
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I love the use of percentages in fantasy games, because nothing evokes otherworldiness and magic quite like dry population statistics.
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Mar 21, 2015 07:15
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Slimnoid posted:Just remember, James Raggi apparently likes Varg. Not... exactly. Going through his G+, it definitely seems like he is linking Varg's video because it's weird to see a hardcore racist/murderer talk about D&D. "[H]e really doesn't sound any different than anyone else around here." On the other hand, going through Raggi's blog post and links is... enlightening. Raggi made a G+ post to the effect of no matter what an unrepentant bloody handed murderer you are, it shouldn't stop people from buying your poo poo or collaborating with you.
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Mar 21, 2015 08:17
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Does Varg Vikernes releasing a table-top RPG count as the biggest name to ever enter the industry as a second career? 
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Mar 21, 2015 08:30
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BrainParasite posted:Not... exactly. Going through his G+, it definitely seems like he is linking Varg's video because it's weird to see a hardcore racist/murderer talk about D&D. "[H]e really doesn't sound any different than anyone else around here." It's called "death of the author". And in this case, also "death of one of the author's bandmates". SunAndSpring posted:Also what kind of title is MYFROG. 
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Mar 21, 2015 12:39
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SunAndSpring posted:I've been giving Monte Cook and friends some more benefit of the doubt than I should because I kind of liked Numenera, at least for the setting, and because I've got a knee-jerk reaction to people who use words like "erasure" after looking at that thread about Tumblr on GBS, but what the gently caress is this poo poo. This looks like something I'd find in an Old World of Darkness supplement. Why would you release something like this in 2015 and claim its actually super good for the Native American community? In this case "erasure" is probably being used correctly tho since they're making some cartoonish caricature of native culture that sort of blends iconic bits of all the nations together into a slurry and pours it over an RPG book. On top of Monty Cooke & co. going "pfff fine we'll rewrite it but fyi we don't care about those native americans we offended because we found some that weren't." Which is pretty dismissive of the feelings of someone's heritage.
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Mar 21, 2015 14:23
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Halloween Jack posted:Speaking of indigenous populations in gaming, Varg Vikernes finally self-published MYFAROG, his D&D heartbreaker "based on European values, geography, (pre-) history, mythology, traditions and morals, and will offer you the opportunity to play a game in accordance with your own European nature."
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Mar 21, 2015 15:26
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He's going to completely ignore that black people lived in Medieval Europe, isn't he?
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Mar 21, 2015 15:33
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Reading the wikipedia article about Varg and I got to this line:quote:When asked about his father, he says that he "had a swastika flag at home" and that his father was hysterical about it. However, Vikernes feels that his father was a hypocrite, because he was worried about Vikernes "being a Nazi", whereas he too was "pissed about all the colored people he saw in town" And I thought "Yeah, I hate hypocrisy. Maybe it would be better if more of the crypto-racists were honest and just came out as nazis." Than I read the rest of the article and NOPE NOPE NOPE. Better a thousand closeted racists who wring their hands and moan about a girl pledging allegiance to America in another language than one psychopath like this guy. Holy poo poo. Today I learned: Hypocrisy sucks, but some kinds of honesty are worse. Jimbozig fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 15:41
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moths posted:He's going to completely ignore that black people lived in Medieval Europe, isn't he? 
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Mar 21, 2015 15:53
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But you already have anti-semitism and Crusades, how much more genocide and racism do we need to
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Mar 21, 2015 15:56
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dwarf74 posted:You see, apart from the racist and 'moral' trash, this sort of thing is totally my poo poo, but I'm not giving the dude money to mine it for the not-awful bits. moths posted:He's going to completely ignore that black people lived in Medieval Europe, isn't he? Varg Vikernes posted:In MYFAROG what we would identify as mainland Norway is submerged under glaciers (and populated by ettins), but the Ice Age has long been ending so the climate is very much temperate (although located in the Arctic). This area, Northern Norway, is in real life known as Hålogaland (translated as «the holy land»), so I took this information and combined it with our myths about a lost continent, and I created this sacred «continent» up there in the North, where the deities in secret created the Þulêan race of men (i. e. the Europeans). However, Þulê has been discovered by other races of men, and even worse, by the ettins, and naturally they all have arrived in Þulê, and in their wake comes all sorts of troubles, challenges – and great opportunities for adventure! Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Mar 21, 2015 |
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Mar 21, 2015 16:00
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It's important to remember that terms like erasure aren't really from Tumblr, they're just frequently abused by it. It's easy to do a quick filtering test for otherkin obesity+ diaperfur erasure because come on, just think about the context. "I am a Native and angry about my culture's representation" is just fundamentally different from "my soul is a werewolf and I'm angry because Walmart fired me for barking at the meat freezer instead of stocking shelves."
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Mar 21, 2015 16:17
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