|
Darth Walrus posted:This: Isn't there also a chunk edited because originally it had some lines about a Jewish character being inherently smarter than Dean (who is black) because they "were descended from the peoples who have won more novels than any other, and not a murderous tribe" or something?
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 05:45 |
|
|
# ? May 17, 2024 20:41 |
|
Fried Chicken posted:Isn't there also a chunk edited because originally it had some lines about a Jewish character being inherently smarter than Dean (who is black) because they "were descended from the peoples who have won more novels than any other, and not a murderous tribe" or something? Really, whenever you see someone talking about how the enlightenment is the source of all that's good and holy forever, you should get some warning flags up because odds are good you're in for a spiel about how 'those people' never had an equivalent.
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 07:33 |
Night10194 posted:Really, whenever you see someone talking about how the enlightenment is the source of all that's good and holy forever, you should get some warning flags up because odds are good you're in for a spiel about how 'those people' never had an equivalent.
|
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 09:23 |
Night10194 posted:Really, whenever you see someone talking about how anything is the source of all that's good and holy forever, you should get some warning flags up
|
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 12:42 |
|
anilEhilated posted:Fixed that for you. Dangers of reductionism and so on. Sure, but when it taps into racial theories that have done a lot of real-world harm, it's especially bad. Someone who says that, say, the Nintendo Gameboy was the beginning of civilisation is probably just silly, not dangerous. Unless they're a Gamergater.
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 14:25 |
|
anilEhilated posted:Fixed that for you. Dangers of reductionism and so on. Well, yes, but I meant for 'You're about to hear some super racist poo poo.' I had a professor once tell me the Enlightenment was the first time in human history anyone had ever had the idea that maybe rulers should be chosen because they're intelligent, virtuous, and skilled. Seriously. I mean, this poo poo is pretty wide-spread. "All past eras were stupid and we are the best forever." is a very comforting delusion.
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 15:28 |
|
Night10194 posted:I had a professor once tell me the Enlightenment was the first time in human history anyone had ever had the idea that maybe rulers should be chosen because they're intelligent, virtuous, and skilled. Seriously. I mean, this poo poo is pretty wide-spread. "All past eras were stupid and we are the best forever." is a very comforting delusion. So basically Philosopher Kings?
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 16:55 |
|
SSNeoman posted:So basically Philosopher Kings? Yeah. I was also reading about ancient China and Confucius at the time. It was kind of hilarious to have a guy tell me with a straight face that this was the first time anyone had ever considered this. He also told me Thomas Paine was the first time anyone had ever asked 'Hey, if God is all powerful, why do bad things happen to good people?' I wrote my Master's Thesis on the Book of Job. That question's been asked as long as there's been monotheism.
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 17:11 |
Night10194 posted:Yeah. I was also reading about ancient China and Confucius at the time. It was kind of hilarious to have a guy tell me with a straight face that this was the first time anyone had ever considered this. He also told me Thomas Paine was the first time anyone had ever asked 'Hey, if God is all powerful, why do bad things happen to good people?'
|
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 18:04 |
|
Night10194 posted:I had a professor once tell me the Enlightenment was the first time in human history anyone had ever had the idea that maybe rulers should be chosen because they're intelligent, virtuous, and skilled. Seriously. I mean, this poo poo is pretty wide-spread. "All past eras were stupid and we are the best forever." is a very comforting delusion. Did you mention to him the concept of Roman dictatorship?
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 18:12 |
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Did you mention to him the concept of Roman dictatorship? I figured past a point it wasn't worth bothering after he claimed Job just 'wasn't the same level of thinking' as loving Thomas Paine. Like, that was his reasoning for why one of the foundational books on 'why does this poo poo happen' (among many other subjects) didn't 'count'. I'll stop derailing, just the whole goddamn Enlightenment worship thing is something I run into often and it pisses me the hell off. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Mar 21, 2015 |
# ? Mar 21, 2015 18:23 |
|
Job was the original jobber. No respect.
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 18:34 |
|
Nessus posted:I gather the Chinese kind of stumped racists for a while because while they were clearly squat heathens in thrall to Satan, they'd also built a civilization that clearly rivaled Rome and was in many ways obviously preferable to the average of European civilization. Fortunately for them the sewage got better back home and the Chinese collapsed under British attack, but boy that must've been a squeaker! Britain, once again saving proper civilisation. You're welcome. In fact if you have any other problems..... Do you have priceless cultural artifacts that you just don't have the museum space for? Are your lands clogged up with valuable minerals? Do you just have too much silks and spices and too little opium? Our operators are standing by, phone in and see if a couple of centuries of colonial oppression are right for you. Deptfordx fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Mar 21, 2015 |
# ? Mar 21, 2015 18:42 |
|
Deptfordx posted:Britain, once again saving proper civilisation. Speaking of which, you really should watch The Mask of Fu Machu. The cultural changes over the last fifty years have totally inverted who you see as the hero and the villain.
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 20:20 |
|
Deptfordx posted:Britain, once again saving proper civilisation. The best way I've ever heard it put is in the book title "All the Countries We've Ever Invaded (And the Few We Never Got Round To)."
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 20:57 |
Tunicate posted:Speaking of which, you really should watch The Mask of Fu Machu.
|
|
# ? Mar 21, 2015 23:12 |
|
Chapter 7 – Reciprocation Part Thirteen quote:
It’s ironic that Eliezarry uses the phrase “true science” when it seems to be most closely associated with creationism, judging from the first, third, and fifth results from Googling “what is true science”. quote:
How would Harry know whether or not magic leaves the practitioner unchanged? It’s been barely a couple of weeks since he first became aware of the world of magic, and he hasn’t learnt or cast a single spell yet. quote:
quote:
quote:
Let me guess – these are Fred and George playing a prank on Harry after Ron told his brothers about his encounter with the Boy Who Lived (thus the use of the pseudonym “Mr Bronze”), because no one could seriously name an actual secret society “Order of Chaos”. quote:
Of the three assertions in the last paragraph, only “He was young” is unequivocally correct. Draco’s "Hey this is how I was taught to manipulate people. Is my manipulative technique working? Am I manipulative and cunning?" performance surely means that he is stupid, his tutors had not trained him well, or both. quote:
How was it in any way “clear” that Eliezarry was “brilliant” or “playing a vast game”? quote:
Eliezer’s trying so hard to make this seem to be some kind of 10th-dimensional psychological wizard chess gambit, but it just comes off as two melodramatic brats caught up in their own delusions of grandeur. quote:
Is Eliezer saying that Harry has the same kind of thought processes and/or mindset as Snape? Are we supposed to be impressed by that?
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 02:56 |
|
I'll admit that science is partly about a willingness to be wrong, but it's not really about "understanding something for the very first time" so much as it's about performing an experiment over and over and over again until you're so certain of your results that you can use it to reliably predict the future.
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 05:12 |
|
I went to the Oracle and asked her, "O, seer of things unseen, who is the wisest among the muggles?" She paused for a moment and then replied, "you are,
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 05:30 |
|
Yeah this part is Yud's hypocrisy at full force. He sort of understands that science doesn't have instant answers. He just expects science to have instant access to answers. Just do a few experiment and arrive at your conclusion? Why is it so hard, right? And holy hell am I reminded of this rant whenever he opens his mouth: http://www.zippcast.com/video/2c5c07ff61c33b4a05a
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 05:38 |
|
SSNeoman posted:Yeah this part is Yud's hypocrisy at full force. He sort of understands that science doesn't have instant answers. He just expects science to have instant access to answers. Just do a few experiment and arrive at your conclusion? Why is it so hard, right? Yud is the science Ideas Guy.
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 06:03 |
|
Chapter 8: Positive Bias Part One quote:
I’m ashamed that I know what all those terms mean. quote:
A reasonably close-to-canon portrayal of Hermione so far. Can’t wait to see how she gets caricatured or straw-womanned in the service of showing off Eliezarry’s wit and wisdom. quote:
Wow, Harry really needs some decent mentors in how to talk to people without coming across as an incredible weirdo at the first encounter. Or is this supposed to be a portrayal of how home-schooling slows the development of the child’s social skills?
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 06:53 |
|
JosephWongKS posted:Wow, Harry really needs some decent mentors in how to talk to people without coming across as an incredible weirdo at the first encounter. Or is this supposed to be a portrayal of how home-schooling slows the development of the child’s social skills? As someone who's friends with a guy who was home schooled, I can add a data point that this might be the case. As someone who has shamefully read the first part of this story and has been following along, I can also add that it's way more likely that the author thinks this is How Society Should Be with intelligent, rational people.
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 06:59 |
|
Remember, Harry has only known about the existence of magic for a week and only knows about Lucius from accosting some bystander at Madam Malkin's robe shop while everyone else was incapacitated with laughter over the Harry and Draco comedy routine. The letter from Lucius reveals the bystander to be Snape. You don't remember this scene because it happened offscreen and we are only told it happened by Harry in passing. I would also point out that Yud stopped his formal education at age 12... so the homeschooling comparison is perhaps apropos. This dialog is pretty amazingly terrible. i81icu812 fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Mar 23, 2015 |
# ? Mar 23, 2015 07:42 |
|
JosephWongKS posted:Wow, Harry really needs some decent mentors in how to talk to people without coming across as an incredible weirdo at the first encounter. Or is this supposed to be a portrayal of how home-schooling slows the development of the child’s social skills? As a home schooled only child, I can say I was never this bad. I was/am a giant nerd, but even the most insular home schooler learns how not to be the worst conversationalist ever.
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 19:35 |
|
Seriously, I really want to see some Lesswrong posts on Aristotle. I mean, they have every reason to be about how he's a pre-Enlightenment guy who got a vast amount of stuff comically wrong, and yet his scientific method is an ideal fit for Yudkowsky, and HPMOR really does seem to be championing it in practice if not necessarily in theory.
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 19:44 |
|
i81icu812 posted:
What's the story there?
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 20:15 |
|
Ironically, his parents took him out of school so they could lock him in a closet under the stairs.
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 20:24 |
|
Fried Chicken posted:What's the story there? Behold. Yudkowsky's autobiography, written in 2000. http://web.archive.org/web/20010205221413/http://sysopmind.com/eliezer.html Highly recommended reading, very entertaining. I note that Yud doesn't like people poking fun at his autobiography and doesn't understand fair use. Opening disclaimer is: quote:NOTE: I don't want people quoting sections of this page out of context, so, as copyright holder, I specifically deny permission to quote this page in whole or in part. If you want to reproduce so much as a sentence, then please just ask me. Likewise, please do not mirror or duplicate this page. Therefore I present the relevant quote to answer your question. Thank you modern US copyright laws. quote:At the end of seventh grade (14), when I was around eleven and a half, I suddenly lost the ability to handle school. I stopped doing my homework. Instead of going to classes, I would sit in the school office, crying, until my mother picked me up. I am told that I made it through eighth grade and graduation, but I remember little or nothing of it. I don't recall it as a period of intense misery, except when I was actually in the classrooms (15); I do recall it as a period when I spent a lot of time crying.
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 20:28 |
|
i81icu812 posted:Behold. Yudkowsky's autobiography, written in 2000. http://web.archive.org/web/20010205221413/http://sysopmind.com/eliezer.html You know, I can sort of sympathize. A combination of bullying and difficulty with anxiety issues had roughly the same happen to me when I was that age. The difference is my parents got me a good psychologist (to whom I am eternally grateful) and moved me to a different school (very glad we had the money for that) and I worked it out. Still, having been there, I can at least see how that could happen. E: Reading further: "I latched onto evolutionary psychology like a starving suction cup." -Sympathy gone. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Mar 23, 2015 |
# ? Mar 23, 2015 20:33 |
|
You forget the other big difference: I'm assuming you didn't post your biography online.
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 20:58 |
|
I also didn't, you know, end my formal education at 8th Grade.
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 22:00 |
|
I feel like the people who get a kick out of Eliezer Yudhowsky's academic antics would like Seth Godin. http://www.yourturn.link/ Don't they just seem like they are cut from the same cloth?
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 23:34 |
|
A3th3r posted:I feel like the people who get a kick out of Eliezer Yudhowsky's academic antics would like Seth Godin. Well, aside from the fact that Godin has a Stanford MBA and is a successful entrepreneur. And his educaitonal background doesn't look like this: quote:In second grade, I was shocked to learn that my math teacher didn't know what a logarithm was. (Not to give you the wrong impression, at the time, I didn't know what an "exponent" was. My parents called them logarithms, so that's what they were.) I permanently lost all respect for my teachers, and for the entire institution of school, and started pleading to be taken out. My parents told me that I had to go to school, even if I wasn't learning, to learn how to interact with the other kids. I said that if that was the case, they should send me to a specialized institution for learning how to interact with other kids, because I certainly wasn't learning any social skills in school. (4). In retrospect, I would still have to say that I was right about this (5). EDIT Things directly from Yud's bio appearing in HPMoR: -Physicist father -Bit teacher -Screwed up sleep cycle -Homeschooled -Bitter about gifted children's math testing Recommend reading the bio, particularly section 4.6: What's it like to be you? in the strongest possible terms. http://web.archive.org/web/20010205221413/http://sysopmind.com/eliezer.html Opening paragraph: quote:I am sufficiently intelligent to have completely avoided most or all of the pitfalls of youth, and I've cleaned enough dirt out of my mind that the thought of living in a completely open telepathic society doesn't disturb me. And yet I still fall short of moral perfection, because I have far less mental energy than an ordinary human. i81icu812 fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Mar 23, 2015 |
# ? Mar 23, 2015 23:45 |
|
It isn't surprising to me that he's a poor learner. Man seems like the mental equivalent of a picky eater. "If it's not precisely the thing I already told myself I wanted to learn and that I can learn easily, it's not worth learning." is a depressing attitude to have.
|
# ? Mar 23, 2015 23:54 |
|
Weird, its like reading my mentality when I was 12. 'I'm smarter then you and I know it, but if it takes effort I don't want to show it.' I can't find the article, but there is a school of thought in which telling kids they are smart actually does harm, as opposed to saying they worked hard. If they find something hard, they think its cuz they aren't smart (which is the source of their validation), so they avoid it. If they are told they succeed through work, they think they just need to work harder to understand the material. He seems... oddly underdeveloped in a lot of ways.
|
# ? Mar 24, 2015 00:06 |
|
LowellDND posted:Weird, its like reading my mentality when I was 12. 'I'm smarter then you and I know it, but if it takes effort I don't want to show it.' Right. But that was him as a 21 year old, not a 12 year old. Incidentally the page was up for under a year before Yud had a fit after someone quoted it and took it down.
|
# ? Mar 24, 2015 00:18 |
|
LowellDND posted:Weird, its like reading my mentality when I was 12. 'I'm smarter then you and I know it, but if it takes effort I don't want to show it.' This is me IRL.
|
# ? Mar 24, 2015 00:29 |
|
i81icu812 posted:Well, aside from the fact that Godin has a Stanford MBA and is a successful entrepreneur. And his educaitonal background doesn't look like this: LowellDND posted:Weird, its like reading my mentality when I was 12. 'I'm smarter then you and I know it, but if it takes effort I don't want to show it.' http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-secret-to-raising-smart-kids1/
|
# ? Mar 24, 2015 00:46 |
|
|
# ? May 17, 2024 20:41 |
|
I haven't done the "list of glowing reviews" for the past couple of chapters, but I think it's worth doing for Chapter 7.quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
|
# ? Mar 24, 2015 01:32 |