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ShadeofBlue posted:I don't think Steam Augury or Mindswipe are really Pros for Jeskai. Anger of the Gods is the big one, if that ends up significantly better than Drown in Sorrow then there might be an argument for it. Otherwise I would expect Esper, UB, or UW to be the premier control deck. I guess, I know they don't say play right now but I feel like they can be very strong cards in the right deck. The main issue I have right now with Esper is that it doesn't have a tri-land which really hurts it, even with Polluted Delta, having too many basics in a 3 coloured deck seems very hard on the manabase. :/ I might just go UW instead but I feel like that doesn't have enough varied threats at the moment and the new token hate sideboard card destroys elspeth. UB seems weaker personally because Crux of Fate is not going to hit that much with everyone and their dog going to be playing dragons and other non-dragons in the same deck trying to test things in my meta.
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Mar 22, 2015 07:15
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Samael posted:I guess, I know they don't say play right now but I feel like they can be very strong cards in the right deck. The main issue I have right now with Esper is that it doesn't have a tri-land which really hurts it, even with Polluted Delta, having too many basics in a 3 coloured deck seems very hard on the manabase. :/ I might just go UW instead but I feel like that doesn't have enough varied threats at the moment and the new token hate sideboard card destroys elspeth. UB seems weaker personally because Crux of Fate is not going to hit that much with everyone and their dog going to be playing dragons and other non-dragons in the same deck trying to test things in my meta. I was playing a Temur control deck for a while with Savage Knuckleblades as the finishers. Steam Augery was pretty good actually because it's an instant and it fuels Dig Through Time. I tried Mindswipe for a while, but it is just too expensive for a counterspell. I ran a couple Craters Claws for end of game fireballs/creature removal that worked better. Anger is sweet against some decks (tokens, aggro, whip), but it gets outclassed quickly against big things like Rhinos, Polukranos, and Tasigurs. White has the wraths, so you may not need to worry about it much, but maybe include some Roasts just in case a fatty slips through a counter spell.
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Mar 22, 2015 07:32
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qbert posted:Yeah, not really getting the hype for Deathmist either. Sure, it seems fine in G/W Devotion, but the card itself is so unexciting that I don't really understand how it greatly improves the deck. I won't claim to have an infallible judgment of future metagames, quite far from it, but Deathmist's resume basically reads "grindy value, good against removal" and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize why that makes it a short-lister for Standard.
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Mar 22, 2015 07:42
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climboutonalimb posted:. I was so pissed I should have won that game but he about 40 minutes to play his turns and took us to a draw. This dropped me out of prize support and I was burnt out so I dropped from play.
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Mar 22, 2015 08:00
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Surrak is my new favorite limited bomb, especially when combined with Arashin Foremost.
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Mar 22, 2015 09:12
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JerryLee posted:Is this poo poo (giving a player advice, but to a lesser extent the ongoing talking) really tolerated even at a prerelease REL? Not even at Regular REL: quote:General Unwanted Behaviors Outside Assistance is match loss worth at a higher REL, should obviously they want to snip it at regular. Basically at Regular REL you can ask players to hold and call the judge if you notice something played wrong. In practice honestly, I've just pointed out the error when I've seen it, small LGS and everyone knowing everyone and all that. Judge in when the error has been big enough / spotted late that he'll have to make the correct call on how to rewind if rewind and what to do if not.
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Mar 22, 2015 09:33
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The thing is Deathmist Raptor is only value in GW when your super-inevitable win condition is already grinding them out. "How do I stay alive while I'm spamming creatures and gaining millions of life" isn't really the question that needs answering. I can maybe see it working in some kind of whip deck if they can find a place for the new megamorph cycle (I guess Den Protector does have good synergy with the deck).
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Mar 22, 2015 09:34
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A bit of a dumb question maybe, but I'm really curious, has cancel ever seen conducted play? I started playing right after BNG was released, so dissolve has always been around, but what happens when return to Zendikar drops and it rotates? If a no other unconditional counters are available, will it see play or will control just switch to running more of the specific 2 cmc spells like disdainful stroke?
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Mar 22, 2015 10:24
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Mef989 posted:A bit of a dumb question maybe, but I'm really curious, has cancel ever seen conducted play? I started playing right after BNG was released, so dissolve has always been around, but what happens when return to Zendikar drops and it rotates? If a no other unconditional counters are available, will it see play or will control just switch to running more of the specific 2 cmc spells like disdainful stroke? Good question! The only recent results I found were block constructed decks, which isn't a real format any more. I would hazard a guess that the last time it saw play was the Teachings Control decks back in RAV-TSP / TSP-LRW, as they hadn't printed a better version of it yet, and it was the best unconditional counter in the format.
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Mar 22, 2015 10:32
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It sees play as a 1 or 2 of in control decks if there's nothing better available. There's both Dissolve and Dissipate around at the moment, and I think it's pretty likely that they'll print another upgraded version of it in the next two large sets, but I guess it is possible.
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Mar 22, 2015 10:35
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Mef989 posted:A bit of a dumb question maybe, but I'm really curious, has cancel ever seen conducted play? I started playing right after BNG was released, so dissolve has always been around, but what happens when return to Zendikar drops and it rotates? If a no other unconditional counters are available, will it see play or will control just switch to running more of the specific 2 cmc spells like disdainful stroke? If there's just Cancel (and no three-mana counter with upside, or two-mana counterspell with a drawback that can be easily worked around), then Cancel will see play. An unconditional counterspell is something that control decks want access to, and getting extra upside alongside that is really just a bonus. You probably don't play the full four copies, but the only way Cancel doesn't see play is if there's a better card that fills the same role.
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Mar 22, 2015 10:38
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Went 5-1 at my prerelease, coming in 4th out of 39 players. I went with Silumgar, and got a decent-ish pool with some of the nicer exploit guys. No Young Scholars or Butchers, but I did get Necromaster Dragon as my promo and the few times I cast him he took over the game. The Aven was amazing every time I got to use him, and the best plays I had were when I could sac a palace familiar to draw 3 cards and lose 2 life. Anticipate was always a welcome card as well, but my real all star was Silumgar Assassin. It's probably because the format is still extremely new, but I got so many 2 for 1s off that guy, my best being him blocking my assassin with the 5/3 guy that deals damage each turn, and flipping it up to kill a 2/2 and the 5/3. Ultimate Price was also amazing. The only thing it can't kill in this set are the dragons, and while they're crazy bombs most of the time being able to use 2 mana to kill almost anything feels great. Reduce in Stature also did some decent work, winning me a game against a guy that had double Dragonlord Kolagahn, Archfiend of Depravity and Swift Hellkite. A lot of the times though it was kinda blanked either by +1/+1 counters or the opponent's enchantments. This format is looking very interesting, and I made a few misplays because of the fact that we're no longer in a highly multicolor format. edit: Also, did anyone's LGS do the Dragonfury? I managed to get in the x2 circle so I got all four, but it was actually kinda fun to watch and play.
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Mar 22, 2015 12:20
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Captain Capitalism posted:edit: Also, did anyone's LGS do the Dragonfury? I managed to get in the x2 circle so I got all four, but it was actually kinda fun to watch and play. Ours did and for all the poo poo we gave it here it was quite fun and didn't take up loads of time or room, just a nice distraction between rounds.
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Mar 22, 2015 12:32
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Cernunnos posted:It's because Whisperwood/Mastery. I can't find 4 open slots in that deck for it though. It's certinley not replacing courser.
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Mar 22, 2015 12:47
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Man this set has me hype to try Temur control with the wincons being both Sarkhans, Knuckleblades, and Crater's claws. Display of Dominance is practically a counter spell and a "green doom blade" for not creatures in relevant in the colors it works on, Roast kills every ground threat, and if I'm feeling sausy I could run Stormbreaths and run the airgame as well. Also Atarka's Command is probably playable in a control shell, it just does so many good things. Count Bleck fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 13:31
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I guess it's like Doom Blade if Doom Blade hit 3 or 4 relevant permanents in the whole format (and that's assuming people will play Narset and Sarkhan in the coming format). Countering a Hero's Downfall on your Planeswalker is a pretty unique effect in RG, but if you have blue then I don't see why you'd ever run it over Negate (that hits all the same cards and way way more). e: I guess you could push up the target count if you included Planeswalkers who see sporadic play as 1-ofs in various control decks, but bringing in a card to maybe kill 1-2 card(s) in their decks (and not even the key cards in their decks) seems pretty bad to me. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 13:54
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If you're running blue it's basically a below par negate, yeah. I suppose it does have some game against an early Ashiok that you for whatever reason can't negate but it feels like there are more widely applicable sideboard options. But if you're planning out Temur control with Crater's Claws and Knuckleblades you're probably not really starting from a great point anyway.
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Mar 22, 2015 14:08
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Anyone interested in buying the dice rolling game? I won it as a door prize, but my wife was unimpressed. It's a very sturdy cardboard, at least as sturdy as the packaging for the Duel Deck anthology, and has nonskid feet. The targets are plastic. I'm asking 50 shipped, continental USA. I'd post a pic, but awful app is acting funky.
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Mar 22, 2015 14:16
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Count Bleck posted:Roast kills every ground threat, Except a pumped or bounced Knuckleblade 
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Mar 22, 2015 15:28
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kizudarake posted:Anyone interested in buying the dice rolling game? I'm waiting for the Battle of Zendikar prerelease side-game that's basically Crossfire where you shoot spindowns at an eldrazi hockey puck into your opponent's goal.
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Mar 22, 2015 15:30
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Anyone else feel like this whole block is pretty "meh"? It's not a bad or anything it just feels really forgettable. Theros felt that way when it came to power level but the set theme/mechanics made an impact on constructed (devotion and constellation decks) and it brought a pretty unique flavor so it managed to make a mark for me. Feels like Khans is just spinning tires waiting for the next block.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:18
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Yeah I mean it only had cards powerful enough to be banned in eternal formats and the best 1-drop for red since Goblin Guide.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:26
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And created the most varied Standard format in over a year. All totally boring/forgettable things. 
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Mar 22, 2015 16:28
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Anyone else feel like this whole block is pretty "meh"? Well, manifest has certainly made an impact with Whisperwood/Mastery of the Unseen (though, that is arguable since it won't really work without all the devotion enablers). But, yeah. The story for Khans is insular, but that is kind of by design just because time travel has a lot of baggage as a storytelling mechanic. It doesn't help that Sarkhan Vol is a pretty forgettable Planeswalker. It was kind of a let-down that Sorin's participation was basically nil despite getting another card.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:32
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I had a B/R pool with lots of removal and 4 dragons and went 1-2. I tried to jam it as an aggro deck but the 2-3 drops I was working with were very underwhelming and I may have been better served maindecking 2 Mind Rots and Duress and slowing it down. Sideboard failure was forgetting I had Rending Volley (R, Instant - Deal 4 damage to blue or white creature) and getting absolutely shithoused by a blue/white deck with 4 copies of the 1U 1/3 guy and 6 rebounding spells. What a mess. I drew poorly but I also deckbuilt poorly. Can't wait to draft soon and get this sealed taste out of my mouth.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:46
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I missed playing and drafting Thero's block, but beyond the interesting gods the flavour is kinda iffy for me. I don't like straight analog "PlanetofHats: Actual Earth Place" type planes. Theros is that for Greece, though I think they've captured the flavour of Greek Mythology *really* well in all these references to Greek myths and the Heros and Monsters. Mechanically its still iffy beyond bestmechanicconstellation, but the actual creatures and spells capture the plane's flavour well.I'm not sure how it fares to what Kamigawa actually did well in going beyond people's expectations of that culture and that captures more subtle essences of that mythology by creating a world predicated on the very nature of Shinto. Of course that was unpopular so we're never getting it ever again. Woe is us. I think that though Tarkir is at its heart a "Mongol Warlord Plane" in how it was no doubt clearly pitched, it subverts being a mere "PlanetofHats: Mongolia" in how it draws influence from Mongolian history in how far Genghis' influence spread across Eurasia, as well as the other nomadic tribes that inhabited the vastness of the continent. The more 'PanAsian' flavour of Tarkir is reflected in this, and I'm more partial to these sort of Fantasy worlds than ones that are limited in scope to say, NotMedievalEngland. I also feel the mechanics are still iffy but I particularly enjoy the both subtle and not subtle way that Outlast and Raid reflect so perfectly not just their respective Clan's combat strategies but very lifestyle, which I think is really great for a setting depicting such diverse cultures that are also so far from what typical Western Style Fantasy worlds depict. Seeing Steppe cultures depicted as more than 'barbarian orc horde' is good, even the Mardu sort of subvert that through what we've seen in the lore, despite pretty much being that at the same time. The other three mechanics do this to a degree, but those two are the stand outs for me. I've really enjoyed the limited format so far, Khans was rewarding in learning and understanding morph, and I enjoyed the archetypes. It gets points for me in that regard. I also think they deserve credit for the story so far, and the transition to Dragons of Tarkir. I at least was invested in the world and its pieces, enough that I found the changes in Clans to Broods interesting in how was carried out, the side affects, the little tells here and there of what has changed and what stayed the same, and as an exposition in colour philosophy and a show casing of how conflict arises between these philosophies when they can also coexist. I find Dragons a bit iffy, but I like it enough from a flavour standpoint in part because I enjoyed Khans. I probably wouldn't be impressed with Dragons.plane if they came to it directly, but the way it flows from and ties back into Khans is something I enjoy. If you weren't already invested though, I can understand how it'd be difficult to be drawn in and enjoy FRF and DTK and how they accomplish this. That's my thoughts on Tarkir as a setting, and its one I've enjoyed and like. Its definitely up there with Scars era Mirrodin and Ravnica for me.
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Mar 22, 2015 16:57
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Theros was disappointing because I was basically expecting the Gods would be this: And then they weren't this
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Mar 22, 2015 17:00
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TheKingofSprings posted:Theros was disappointing because I was basically expecting the Gods would be this: ...But they mostly are unplayable gimmick cards murdered by actually good plays?
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Mar 22, 2015 17:02
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:...But they mostly are unplayable gimmick cards murdered by actually good plays? You're not wrong but none of them do crazy poo poo. Like Keranos is the closest one to doing crazy poo poo and he's still just "draw a card or bolt per turn  "
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Mar 22, 2015 17:07
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I've never played 2HG before and I'm going to tonight -- is there a recommended primer out there somewhere that breaks down any rules things I need to be aware of?
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Mar 22, 2015 17:17
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Obelisk used to be played in Dragon Ruler mirror matches I generally like the idea behind the gods in Theros, they have fairly subtle effects if they don't have enough support, then they become large unkillable creatures if they do. A lot of them could've done with being better though.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:17
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Slifer the Executive producer
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Mar 22, 2015 17:22
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The problem is they're sort of winmore if you're playing them to turn into a creature. They're all primarily played for their utility as enchantments, which I think is really cool in that you're getting an effect for worshipping a god rather than just summoning it? Sorta? When you turn it into a creature, at that point you've probably won anyway, or its now essentially serving as a finisher. That said. Pretty sure a lot of them have seen play and been actually good cards in their decks, just not primarily as a creature.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:25
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TheKingofSprings posted:You're not wrong but none of them do crazy poo poo. Xenagos, Kruphix, Athreos, and Phenax are all pretty major effects that have rarely been done before.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:41
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Thassa was a thing for a long time too
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Mar 22, 2015 17:43
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TheKingofSprings posted:You're not wrong but none of them do crazy poo poo. Theros as a block seemed to cater to new players more than veterans, which is fine once in a while. The draft strategy was easy, the story was simple and reflected a low-power environment, and thematically it set up for the years-long Eldrazi thing they have coming. That the gods are unimpressive is part of the world -- they can't be that awesome because they're supposed to be totally lovely compared to the Eldrazi/Phyrexians/other Planeswalkers/nextVillainThatSellsPacks. Also, even though the block was pretty meh to veterans, that strategy worked -- Theros block got tons of new people into the game and gave them time to get acclimated to MtG as a whole, so when the next set came out and its chase rares were some lands that don't even tap for mana they were ready to go "oh poo poo a Windswept Heath this is great!" It's a good time to play the game.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:43
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Legacy cube stream going up @ http://hitbox.tv/marchhare Rich Hagon is in my pod.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:58
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Anyone else feel like this whole block is pretty "meh"? Very much so. The entire list of cards I've been excited for: Dig, Tasigur, Ugin (my favorite card ever is Pernicious Deed.) There were a lot of cards in Theros I was pretty excited for even though they all ended up being terrible except for Keranos. Edit: I forgot Surrak Bearpuncher. whydirt posted:Yeah I mean it only had cards powerful enough to be banned in eternal formats and the best 1-drop for red since Goblin Guide. Burn really did need a 1-mana hasty Grapeshot after having been given its 2nd best card 3 sets prior. suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Mar 22, 2015 |
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Mar 22, 2015 18:00
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I don't know what you guys are talking about compared to Theros this block is miles better. Exploit is finally a ub mechanic that doesn't suck, limited has been great, standard has been great. What exactly are you looking for?
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Mar 22, 2015 18:04
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:I don't know what you guys are talking about compared to Theros this block is miles better. Exploit is finally a ub mechanic that doesn't suck, limited has been great, standard has been great. What exactly are you looking for? Yeah, I wasn't a huge fan of dragons over khans or even fate reforged but as a block it's way way better than theros
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