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Vince isn't passive aggressive. He's ruthless aggressive.
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Mar 22, 2015 17:19
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Vince is well-documented as a guy who will lie to your face and then maneuver behind your back to gently caress you over on agreements you made with him. If you have him in a legally binding position, he will resort to unbelievable carny skulduggery to get what he wants and/or simply ignore the law. Rather than give you rights and benefits as a worker in a multi-million dollar enterprise, he will either discard you or keep you on the teat as a charity case if he likes you. The company is extraordinarily petty towards wrestlers who become successful independent of the company, even if they've never actually worked for him. All that and he's always had a chip on his shoulder because his goal has been to grow his empire beyond wrestling (bodybuilding, the XFL, bad movies, Republican politics) and each time he's tried it's been a dismal failure. This has partially been an effort to make more money, but he and certain yes-men are all too conscious of wrestling's perception as redneck culture and how they feel that stigma has undermined their attempts to grow. This is partially justified but mostly has to do with Vince being a maniac and the unethical way the company has always done business. Because of the bubble of eccentricity Vince lives in, as well as the fact that they have not had serious competition for many years, the company is in the fourteenth year of an ongoing creative decline. They've methodically killed every great idea they've had and squashed talent that could have earned them millions because the writing is garbage and Vince doggedly pursues his delusional ideal of what a star wrestler must look like (basically the Ultimate Warrior). This notion is beyond disproven, as most of the biggest stars in history succeeded regardless of size or look as long as they could wrestle and talk. Of their current batch of prospects, the company is pushing the guy who arguably deserves it least and definitively the guy the fans want least as their next Number One simply because he has Vince's ideal look. The guy who actually deserves the spot has been turned into a lower card attraction that they are openly trying to sabotage in the hopes that the Wrestlemania crowd will not revolt, which they have a 99% chance of doing because Mania crowds tend to be filled with superfans. All the wrestling posters are looking forward to a gigantic clusterfuck because even besides that the card looks mostly terrible. CM Punk getting out from under this gigantic loving rear end in a top hat and his circus makes him an absolute hero. If he gets loving destroyed in the Octagon he will still be an absolute hero (and will still have prospects) and I hope his payday is huge whatever happens.
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Mar 22, 2015 18:22
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Vince McMahon fooled Insane Clown Posse into wrestling for him for free in exchange for an album commercial he never had aired. He owns and understands how a fake business needs to be ran.
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Mar 22, 2015 18:51
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To be fair to Vince he had a childhood that was like a Garth Ennis character backstory that even he thinks is outlandish.
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Mar 22, 2015 18:53
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"I grew up in a trailer park in which I was molested by my stepfather who died before I could kill him, I got beaten up a lot by black people on a nearby military base, I wanted to gently caress my cousin and stuff her full of leaves, and then I became a millionaire and have literally had human toys to play with and discard for decades while I did lots of coke. I'm well adjusted!"
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Mar 22, 2015 19:04
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DeathChicken posted:"I grew up in a trailer park in which I was molested by my stepfather who died before I could kill him, I got beaten up a lot by black people on a nearby military base, I wanted to gently caress my cousin and stuff her full of leaves, and then I became a millionaire and have literally had human toys to play with and discard for decades while I did lots of coke. I'm well adjusted!" Actually his stepfather just beat him with a pipe wrench until he was 14. His mum was the one who molested him. And he did stuff leaves in that girl's vagina. We're lucky he's not a prolific serial killer tbh.
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Mar 22, 2015 19:18
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:CM Punk getting out from under this gigantic loving rear end in a top hat and his circus makes him an absolute hero. If he gets loving destroyed in the Octagon he will still be an absolute hero (and will still have prospects) and I hope his payday is huge whatever happens. This is amazingly true and every post you've made has been on point. A little over a year ago when he was around I was simply a huge CM Punk fan. Everything he's done recently has almost turned him into a folk hero. It doesn't matter if (when) he gets his poo poo completely kicked in. He already won.
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Mar 22, 2015 19:51
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Dana White is a cool guy
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Mar 22, 2015 19:55
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Even Kurt Angle was smart enough to stay out of MMA when he was finally drummed out of WWE for being too insane. Everything you are saying is extremely awesome and on point, but just for the record, Kurt totally tried repeatedly to get into the UFC and it only ended when Dana relented and offered him a spot on the giant TUF hevyweights season with Kimbo contingent on him passing his medicals, which he apparently failed spectacularly.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:04
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CarlCX posted:Everything you are saying is extremely awesome and on point, but just for the record, Kurt totally tried repeatedly to get into the UFC and it only ended when Dana relented and offered him a spot on the giant TUF hevyweights season with Kimbo contingent on him passing his medicals, which he apparently failed spectacularly. God drat it Kurt.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:28
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CM Punk is hilarious because his best promo ever was about how if he left his fans would not give a poo poo in a meaningful way because they'd still watch and buy the product regardless, and then after he did his Colt Cabana interview about how WWE nearly got him killed, the response was to make the generic insult for Reigns "Gotta Keep Him Strong" and buy the product more.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:29
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All I want out of this is when Punk gets his rear end kicked in his first UFC fight, Rogan says "Welcome to the UFC, Punk".
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Mar 22, 2015 21:34
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CarlCX posted:Dana relented and offered him a spot on the giant TUF hevyweights season with Kimbo contingent on him passing his medicals, which he apparently failed spectacularly. Could you imagine.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:39
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Duzzy Funlop posted:Could you imagine. How hosed up he had to be to fail that medical when Kimbo who apparently had no knees got on?
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Mar 22, 2015 21:49
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coconono posted:All I want out of this is when Punk gets his rear end kicked in his first UFC fight, Rogan says "Welcome to the UFC, Punk". Considering his dedication so far, even if he gets beaten, it should be entertaining and he won't get beaten little a total bitch. I'm sure everyone's first match and beat down was humbling and difficult unless they're incredibly gifted and Punk is not a gifted fighter, so he needs the time to make this interesting. He's a gifted talker, but not a born mma fighter. Hell, if he can go for more than a round and a half, that's quite an achievement for an 0-0 guy.
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Mar 22, 2015 21:59
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MassRafTer posted:How hosed up he had to be to fail that medical when Kimbo who apparently had no knees got on? He had a broken freakin' neck.
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Mar 22, 2015 22:12
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uncleKitchener posted:Considering his dedication so far, even if he gets beaten, it should be entertaining and he won't get beaten little a total bitch. Who's to say he won't? Ask the dedication in the world won't help if you're outclassed.
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Mar 22, 2015 22:31
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ICHIBAHN posted:Who's to say he won't? The UFC, who will be matching him up with the softest touch imaginable for his debut fight.
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Mar 22, 2015 22:40
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fatherdog posted:The UFC, who will be matching him up with the softest touch imaginable for his debut fight. I don't know where you're going to find another 36 year old MMA fighter with no amateur experience and a million concussions, though. Unless they put a literal hobo in the ring like those Russian guys did with Mickey Rourke.
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Mar 22, 2015 22:41
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Retromancer posted:I don't know where you're going to find another 36 year old MMA fighter with no amateur experience and a million concussions, though. They'll find some gym rat who is slightly less skilled than Punk, maybe a crossfit competitor
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Mar 22, 2015 22:44
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Bluedeanie posted:Vince McMahon fooled Insane Clown Posse into wrestling for him for free in exchange for an album commercial he never had aired. He owns and understands how a fake business needs to be ran. Icp run a more respectable wrestling promotion than the wwe.
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Mar 22, 2015 22:59
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MAKE WAY NEW STARS posted:Icp run a more respectable wrestling promotion than the wwe. ICP run the most respectable indie promotion on the basis of they always pay their wrestlers. They also found out that Terry Funk was mad about them making a bunch of money off Stranglemania so they went over to his house and talked and apologized and when they left they left a bunch of money on his counter and now Terry Funk is an ICP fan.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:08
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MassRafTer posted:How hosed up he had to be to fail that medical when Kimbo who apparently had no knees got on? Was there a drug test, because there's no loving way that Kurt Angle has been in a position to pass a legitimate drug test for the last 9 years.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:16
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1st AD posted:They'll find some gym rat who is slightly less skilled than Punk, maybe a crossfit competitor Yoga man from TUF China
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Mar 22, 2015 23:16
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Memento posted:Was there a drug test, because there's no loving way that Kurt Angle has been in a position to pass a legitimate drug test for the last 9 years. Everyone on TUF has to pass a full drug test to get into the house.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:18
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fatherdog posted:Everyone on TUF has to pass a full drug test to get into the house. That explains it.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:28
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fatherdog posted:The UFC, who will be matching him up with the softest touch imaginable for his debut fight. I know but I'm saying even with favourable booking, you (not you) can't say he definitely won't be embarrassed. I hope he does well but it's a huge all of him.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:29
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The only comment in this threat that has bothered me was the one where someone should be thankful for his spot because he made seven figures. Always support labor, y'all.
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Mar 22, 2015 23:33
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uncleKitchener posted:Considering his dedication so far, even if he gets beaten, it should be entertaining and he won't get beaten little a total bitch. [citation needed]
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Mar 23, 2015 01:25
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Please help me to understand, as a person who has watched very few professional wrestling tv shows. If it is all scripted, all of the drama is fake, correct? Other TV shows occasionally have backstage drama, like one actor doesn't get along with the director, they have the writers kill off his character. No one ever accuses the main producer of a long running soap opera of being a business mastermind. Who decides what drama around Vince Mcmahon is real life drama, and what is scripted drama? If an ex-WWE performer talks smack about Vince, is there anyway to find out if he is just building drama for his exciting entrance back into the show? When a poster said: OneThousandMonkeys posted:Vince is well-documented as a guy who will lie to your face and then maneuver behind your back to gently caress you over on agreements you made with him. If you have him in a legally binding position, he will resort to unbelievable carny skulduggery to get what he wants and/or simply ignore the law. Rather than give you rights and benefits as a worker in a multi-million dollar enterprise, he will either discard you or keep you on the teat as a charity case if he likes you. The company is extraordinarily petty towards wrestlers who become successful independent of the company, even if they've never actually worked for him. Who decides what drama with WWE is real, and what is scripted? Fozzy The Bear fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 01:50
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I'm not sure about the state of wrestling reporting today, but even in the late 90's it was pretty well understood who the players were backstage and how they were building towards certain storylines. Guys like Meltzer have been around forever so reporting on the inner workings of things is pretty well documented. Pro wrestling is rife with backstage drama because it's a business that has carny roots and getting ahead in the business probably means a combination of talent and political maneuvering.
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Mar 23, 2015 02:04
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1st AD posted:I'm not sure about the state of wrestling reporting today, but even in the late 90's it was pretty well understood who the players were backstage and how they were building towards certain storylines. Guys like Meltzer have been around forever so reporting on the inner workings of things is pretty well documented. So the real and the fake drama is decided by Meltzer? wow
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Mar 23, 2015 02:18
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Most of the on screen drama is scripted, though sometimes real life disagreements bleed into the broadcast. Most of the off-screen drama is invisible to the average wrestling fan unless you are a super nerd and read the dirt sheets. I haven't watched WWE in forever but I gather a lot of CM Punk's fans are ones who were said super nerds who felt like he was being unfairly buried in favor of shittier wrestlers. Like imagine if Jon Fitch were actually likable AND exciting to watch and he still couldn't get another title shot after beating Thiago Alves.
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Mar 23, 2015 02:23
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Fozzy The Bear posted:So the real and the fake drama is decided by Meltzer? wow Yeah, now gently caress off
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Mar 23, 2015 02:25
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Fozzy The Bear posted:Please help me to understand, as a person who has watched very few professional wrestling tv shows. If it is all scripted, all of the drama is fake, correct? Not being able to tell which drama is real and which is just fake-real is kind of one of the draws to following wrestling as a business. It used to be a lot more obnoxious in the 90s in that the internet made more people interested in the behind the scenes stuff so wrestlers and especially "edgy" writers like Vince Russo would work the fans (and each other in some cases) to make fake drama seem more realistic. Honestly it's not too different from MMA fighters and boxers claiming they have problems with each other before a big fight. Most of the time it's just showmanship for the fans, but sometimes there's an element of actual dislike between them or even outright hostility. Wrestling is still a really carny business but UFC and especially PRIDE are/were not really too different overall. It's become increasingly common in wrestling ever since the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Screwjob with Bret Hart in 97 for wrestling organizations to take real life conflict and spin it into a fictionalized version they can make money off of. In the case of CM Punk he might be exaggerating his problems with WWE to an extent but considering other wrestlers who have spoken out against McMahon and the WWE once they've left it it's extremely likely most of what he's saying is true and it has nothing to do with any sort of wrestling stoyrline or hype machine. Wrestling more than any other entertainment medium I can think of is always blurred between reality and fiction but it's generally relatively easy to read between the lines if you're familiar with how the business works.
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Mar 23, 2015 02:26
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Fozzy The Bear posted:Please help me to understand, as a person who has watched very few professional wrestling tv shows. If it is all scripted, all of the drama is fake, correct? Everything that happens on television is scripted, end of story. Having said that, the script is written by a megalomaniac, mentally-ill drug-abusing millionaire tyrant who will regularly script things to happen on TV that are taking incredibly misguided shots at real-life people and events. The best way to explain Vincent Kennedy McMahon is that he would rather make a nickel doing things his way than a dollar doing things someone else's way. He hates not being in control of everything at all times. He made money with CM Punk. However, Punk didn't fit the mould of what he wanted in a wrestler. If you want to know what Vince wants in a wrestler, do a google image search on Gary Strydom. Massive, immobile lumps of steroid-enhanced beefcake. If Vince had actually utilised Punk the way he should have, they would have all made a ton more money, but that wouldn't be doing things the Vince way. Brock came back to the WWE because Vince offered Brock the one thing that Brock values above all others: literal truckloads of cash money. It didn't matter what he was coming back for, they could have put him in an angle where he was beaten up by midgets for all Brock cared, as long as he was still taking home the ridiculous amounts of money he's being paid for appearing about five times a year. The best way to find out if a performer talking poo poo about Vince is legitimate or not is whether or not there are lawyers involved. Punk sued the WWE for unpaid royalties and appearance money and got a massive settlement because legally, they didn't have a leg to stand on. It's widely regarded that the lawsuit the WWE doctor filed against Punk and Cabana is being done because Vince wants to get back at Punk, and can only do it by proxy per what are probably the details of their settlement. Vince literally "wants his win back" because he is a brain-damaged carny. Vince being a brain-damaged carny is the most important thing to remember in any discussion involving the booking decisions of the WWE.
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Mar 23, 2015 02:31
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I think the UFC is similar in it's business/contracts but the way they conduct themselves is way different. For starters, there are very few cases where a dude has been straight up buried despite winning fights, and usually it's someone like Jacob Volkmann who they kept off TV because in his first post-fight speech he intimated that he was gonna beat up Obama.
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Mar 23, 2015 02:31
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He's afraid to drink a beer lol
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Mar 23, 2015 02:37
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Skip My Posts posted:He's afraid to drink a beer lol
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Mar 23, 2015 02:38
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1st AD posted:I think the UFC is similar in it's business/contracts but the way they conduct themselves is way different. For starters, there are very few cases where a dude has been straight up buried despite winning fights, and usually it's someone like Jacob Volkmann who they kept off TV because in his first post-fight speech he intimated that he was gonna beat up Obama. They're similar in that Dana White would have no problem having guys go out and fight doped out of their minds and injured if MMA didn't have to walk on legal eggshells with state athletic commissions
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Mar 23, 2015 02:41
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