|
BrianWilly posted:I definitely agree with this in a general "get your poo poo together Oliver" kind of way, but I do think it's kind of silly for the show to be like "Agh, it's been two whole years and I haven't cleaned up crime in the city yet!" That's an oversimplification, really. Its been two years and its less about the poo poo he hasn't accomplished yet and more about all the stuff that HAS happened on his watch. He failed (relatively) in his original task, to clean up his father's mess. Thousands died including his best friend in the culmination of the plot his father was ashamed of being a part of. His mother went to jail for it while the dude who was truly behind it got away. A huge portion of his city was damaged and its survivors left in terrible conditions. His mother later died at the hands of an enemy from his past, in Oliver's mind his own fault. The enemy unleashed more hell on his city causing even more damage and loss of life. He lost his father's company as a result of all of this. His sister, traumatized by watching their mother die and everything else swirling around his life, ran off with the evil guy who he failed to stop in the first place. His friend and ex-lover died at the hands of his drugged sister by the whims of that evil guy again. His sister is traumatized, a family he loves and has caused great pain to has more pain and trouble after losing a daughter (again), and he felt compelled to risk his life multiple times to save that one annoying evil guy from a really scary dude he was making an enemy of all because he was trying to somehow help his sister. Oh, and even though he's basically failed to stop the evil plot that started all this and then brought another evil plot on his city all the other bad guys he arrested along the way got out of jail. And his would be girlfriend is with the dude who bought his company. I don't think its that hard to understand why Oliver looks at all this and says "gently caress... My life sucks. Maybe there's a better way?" Especially since he only did it for like 20 minutes.
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 22:36 |
|
|
Pretty meh episode, they're turning Ra's into a non-threatening puppy dog like they did to Merlyn. I'll never not think this arc with Ra's wanting Oliver to be his heir is stupid and rushed, they didn't give him enough time to be a bad guy. Hopefully he gets insulted by Ollie declining the offer and proceeds to murder the rest of the city. Also lol if Shado is actually alive cause that would be retarded since we saw Ivo shoot her in the loving head.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:36
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:That would be an amazing way to go. Recidivism among criminals killed by arrows is an unprecedented 0%.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:40
|
|
|
Bruceski posted:Recidivism among criminals killed by arrows is an unprecedented 0%. uhhhhh 
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 01:46
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I don't think its that hard to understand why Oliver looks at all this and says "gently caress... My life sucks. Maybe there's a better way?" Especially since he only did it for like 20 minutes. I absolutely agree with all of this. It's the last part that truly angers me. After all of that, Oliver's conclusion seems to be "nah everything's fine let's keep in this exact same course". What was the loving point? In fact, "what was the loving point" seems to be my question to everything this season. Apart from Sara's death (which sets up the plot, even if it was done horribly), it feels like nothing really goes anywhere. We're back to square one with Ra's al Ghul. rear end in a top hat Dad is still very much alive and just as bad as before. Felicity is still completely in love with the guy she seemed to at least somewhat want to get away from despite going out with another. The conflict in Team Arrow went nowhere, they're completely friendly with each other and working under Oliver without a second thought again. What was accomplished with all of this? Laurel becoming the Black Canary and Captain Lance having a breakdown because of the horrible treatment he got from his own drat daughter are the only changes I can think of, and the latter is very much not one I'm glad for because, guess where it goes. I'll tell you. It goes to reset the loving series to season 1 status. Lance is again an adversary, character development reset entirely. I loving hope I'm wrong.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 02:20
|
|
|
Okay, so I'm now on S03E06, and holy poo poo this show is awesome! I retract my previous dislike for Laurel, I actually really like her progression and where they're going with her. Also: BOXING GLOVE ARROW!!!!!! E: Also, it cracks me up that the Japanese wife lady is such a raging bitch to Ollie and wants him to leave, and he doesn't even wanna be there. 10 Beers fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Mar 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 14:33
|
|
|
Deakul posted:Also lol if Shado is actually alive cause that would be retarded since we saw Ivo shoot her in the loving head. The show runners are annoyed that people prefer the second season so much that they're going to retcon things so Ollie never bothered to mention that Shadow was still alive and chillin the whole time Slade was on his crusade.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 15:39
|
|
|
ghostwritingduck posted:The show runners are annoyed that people prefer the second season so much that they're going to retcon things so Ollie never bothered to mention that Shadow was still alive and chillin the whole time Slade was on his crusade. Good luck convincing roid rage Slade of that. He saw her get shot in the head. Also she may still die again, or have her reasons for having Ollie keep quiet, or be a twin sister.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 17:38
|
|
|
Or, you know, Sara saved her when Nyssa picked her up off the island.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 20:16
|
|
|
Thanks for saving me, let me just bring this corpse with us in case your father turns out to live at the fountain of youth which also revives the dead.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 20:39
|
|
|
Yeah, I'm going to hold out on judgment on Shado being alive until we get some details. I mean, this IS the episode where they confirmed magical rejuvenating water of life as a canonical thing. But this is a comic book so I wouldn't be surprised if Shado had a twin sister. Blaze Dragon posted:I absolutely agree with all of this. It's the last part that truly angers me. After all of that, Oliver's conclusion seems to be "nah everything's fine let's keep in this exact same course". Well, it doesn't strike me as odd that Oliver didn't seriously consider being Ra's Al Ghul. It goes against all the development we've seen from him over the last two years. The Oliver who started the series might have more heavily considered it because he was much more of a "ends justify the means" kind of guy. But all these years of influence from Felicity and Diggle and the stuff he's been through with his family, Laurel's, and Tommy's. For him to betray all of that and go Ra's way would have been just as shocking and hard to grasp as Diggle and Felicity made it seem. But, you know, its not surprising that Oliver might be tempted when he comes home and all the sucky parts of his life are just shoved in his face. But its "heroic" that he quickly stops feeling sorry for himself after Felicity talks some sense into him and he actually experiences some of the good he's done (Lance and those cops would be dead if the Arrow wasn't a thing). The greater story of "what has been the point" of this season is a little more complicated, I guess. I mean, I don't think the world has changed but there's plenty of different influences and motivations with Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, Thea, Laurel, and most notably this episode Nyssa. Ray's also an interesting mix into this considering he has Oliver's company, girl, and is about ready to take his job. And Ra's didn't start as Oliver's enemy at all, but now he is. That's a change, I'd say. Before was just Oliver sticking himself between Ra's and Merlin, now he has to deal with the League of Assassins actually coming for him. Its not dramatic change of the world yet, granted, but I'm personally ok with the slow movement. I don't think Lance is an adversary. He isn't happy with the Arrow and he won't be helping him but there's a big gap between "not sharing information or backing him up" and "hunting him down." Laurel's presence on Team Arrow should at least serve to avoid that return to S1 status quo because of Lance was serious about wanting to stop vigilantism he'd grab his daughter. And lets be honest, at this stage probably the only reason he hasn't figured out Oliver is the Arrow is because he's outright said he doesn't want to know. My biggest issue is probably Merlin, because even though I can understand why Oliver doesn't want to kill him I'm not exactly sure why he isn't locked in an Argus cell next to Slade and Boomerang.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 20:42
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:Thanks for saving me, let me just bring this corpse with us in case your father turns out to live at the fountain of youth which also revives the dead. They needed a 3rd body for the car-pool lane back to Nanda Parbat
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 20:43
|
|
|
Maybe the pit will be how Caity Lotz will be around for the spin off.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 22:44
|
|
|
I don't know, I think the last scene of this week's Flash might confirm how we get Caity Lotz in the spin off/mini series.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 22:49
|
|
|
Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Maybe the pit will be how Caity Lotz will be around for the spin off. Given that they cast only Victor Garber and not Robbie Amell, I'm assuming it's gonna have something to do with The Flash's time travel fuckery. E: beaten like Laurel was this week.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 22:50
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I don't know, I think the last scene of this week's Flash might confirm how we get Caity Lotz in the spin off/mini series.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 22:52
|
|
|
The problem of course if that it's an alternate timeline you can't crossover with anyone but Barry. At least until he learns to bring other people across timelines.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 22:52
|
|
|
Sober posted:You would have to introduce it in ARROW before you do it. Despite the shows being connected I'm sure you have to account for people who don't watch the other and not knowing what happens on The Flash to understand this Barry motherfucker is gonna turn back time. Well it doesn't ever actually have to be an Arrow story. You can just leave all the time travel fuckery to Flash and the mini series/spinoff and let Arrow do its thing with maybe just a passing mention of the world changing poo poo that happened over there in that other show/city. Its the way Buffy and Angel operated for all those years. Then as far as viewers assume that most Arrow fans are either Flash fans or will at least be interested in the idea of the mini-series because it features Arrow characters even if its not directly tying into Arrow stories. Or alternatively they could introduce the story into Arrow during a crossover and let it just go run all in the mini. That's basically how most comic book crossovers work, right? A character shows up from another book and says "OH MY GOD, SOMETHING MAJOR IS HAPPENING!" and then they tell you to go buy another comic and a month or two later your book is back to normal and barely mentioning that major thing. I mean, the spinoff hasn't even started filming yet, right? Its a mid season 2015-2016 thing, right? So there's tons of time to set whatever it is up. If it IS time travel and an alternate timeline then Flash and Arrow will have the entire first half of next season to set that up, right? And the latest news about another crossover suggests more of the worlds overlapping and more metahuman/comicy stuff in Arrow.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 23:10
|
|
|
If they're going to bring someone back from the dead, Tommy would be a more interesting choice than Shadow.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 23:27
|
|
|
Nothing involving Tommy will ever be interesting.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 23:34
|
|
|
Yeah. Tommy's a nice guy and I'm sad he's dead and all but I'm not exactly sad he's off the show. Dude serves more of a purpose as a guilt dealing ghost than he ever did as a human.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2015 23:59
|
|
|
I think if Shado was alive Oliver would not have mentioned it to Slade because he wouldn't want that psycho to know. OTOH he also wouldn't have seen her guilt tripping ghost complaining about being dead.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 01:28
|
|
|
greatn posted:I think if Shado was alive Oliver would not have mentioned it to Slade because he wouldn't want that psycho to know. I think he might have mentioned it just before Slade stuck a sword through his Mum's chest
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 01:35
|
|
|
Seriously, though, it's a comic book. There's like 100 possible explanations ranging from secret twin to Oliver having amnesia that there's no point in being critical until we know what we're critical about.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 01:44
|
|
|
So now that Oliver is out of the hands of ARGUS, why doesn't he pick up a phone and call home to let them know that he's alive?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 01:49
|
|
|
Proposition Joe posted:So now that Oliver is out of the hands of ARGUS, why doesn't he pick up a phone and call home to let them know that he's alive? The last two episodes he's been chased by Argus black ops goons.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 01:56
|
|
|
Bad Moon posted:The last two episodes he's been chased by Argus black ops goons. Do we know that for sure though (even though its probably the case)? Also they didn't know where he was before the botanical gardens so he totally could have shot off a voice mail or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 02:28
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Seriously, though, it's a comic book. There's like 100 possible explanations ranging from secret twin to Oliver having amnesia that there's no point in being critical until we know what we're critical about. She's actually an angel from God who is there to help Oliver build a Cylon detector.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 02:37
|
|
|
Proposition Joe posted:Do we know that for sure though (even though its probably the case)? Also they didn't know where he was before the botanical gardens so he totally could have shot off a voice mail or whatever. He probably figures they would just go kill his family (like previously threatened) anyway so what's the point
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 02:44
|
|
|
Whizbang posted:She's actually an angel from God who is there to help Oliver build a Cylon detector. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 02:47
|
|
|
Proposition Joe posted:Do we know that for sure though (even though its probably the case)? Also they didn't know where he was before the botanical gardens so he totally could have shot off a voice mail or whatever. Not for sure, no. It was Argus people that were shooting at them on the docks. I figure Waller ordered her people to make sure they didn't get on the boat because Marc Singer had it rigged to explode. Now it's probably Argus trying to track them down to bring them in. They already have Masao and his wife and that's how they knew to search the botanical gardens. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Mar 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 03:15
|
|
|
Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Not for sure, no. It was Argus people that were shooting at them on the docks. I figure Waller ordered her people to make sure they didn't get on the boat because Marc Singer had it rigged to explode. Now it's probably Argus trying to track them down to bring them in. They already have Masao and his wife and that's how they knew to search the botanical gardens. ...OK you might be right, but it seems so weird to have someone give the Wall the benefit of the doubt. It's like assuming Nick Fury's on the level when he tells you someone's for reals dead.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 03:31
|
|
|
Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Not for sure, no. It was Argus people that were shooting at them on the docks. I figure Waller ordered her people to make sure they didn't get on the boat because Marc Singer had it rigged to explode. Now it's probably Argus trying to track them down to bring them in. They already have Masao and his wife and that's how they knew to search the botanical gardens. If this is the case why have ARGUS goons in the botanical garden when they could just have Masao and Tatsu waiting to explain things.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 03:39
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:...OK you might be right, but it seems so weird to have someone give the Wall the benefit of the doubt. It's like assuming Nick Fury's on the level when he tells you someone's for reals dead. Yeah, actually this sounds like a total Waller move to me. It's the dirtiest, shadiest, most behind-your-back, cynical, poorly thought out, borderline-evil way of actually trying to help you out and fight against the even worse people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 03:42
|
|
|
I dont know posted:If this is the case why have ARGUS goons in the botanical garden when they could just have Masao and Tatsu waiting to explain things. Two reasons, first is that they don't want all the principles together and out in the open when Singer is looking to kill them and second, extra tv drama.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 03:44
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Seriously, though, it's a comic book. There's like 100 possible explanations ranging from secret twin to Oliver having amnesia that there's no point in being critical until we know what we're critical about. Lemme just throw a wrench in this here speculation fest. That's a spoiler.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 17:32
|
|
|
zoux posted:Lemme just throw a wrench in this here speculation fest. That's a spoiler. I hope this means that both of them are alive and that they never explain how.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 17:38
|
|
|
"B-but...I saw you die! Both of you!" "Nah." "Yeah, I guess that makes sense."
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 17:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 22:36 |
|
|
The island plot in s1 and Ivo in s2 were both a ridiculously long con by Waller.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2015 17:42
|
|