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Yeah I have some in similar condition, though no where near as rare/gold/valuable as some of those. Greek coins tend to do well due to the quality of construction, the metals just seems to do better in the ground and their high quality strikes keep their detail pretty well. Gold coins also have the benefit of never being debased so they are always pretty pure gold (they just got smaller/lighter with the same face value) and gold is notably unreactive. Bury some gold and in 2000 years you can dig it up and it will not have changed much. Dust it down and you would be hard pressed to tell any difference. The romans at least also put more effort into their gold coins compared to silver/bronze so they tend to look pretty drat amazing. Silver also benefits from being cleanable with acid. As its a nobeler metal than copper and was often horded with copper coins the copper takes the brunt of the damage from being burried and the silver can often get away pretty free. The rest of the dirt can be removed easily with citric acid easily and if these were done in the 30s thats plent of time for them to retone and look 'old' rather than mint new.
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# ? Mar 21, 2015 11:14 |
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# ? May 14, 2024 01:52 |
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From: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/ring-brings-ancient-viking-islamic-civilizations-closer-togetherquote:More than a century after its discovery in a ninth century woman’s grave, an engraved ring has revealed evidence of close contacts between Viking Age Scandinavians and the Islamic world.
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# ? Mar 22, 2015 10:37 |
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Dalael posted:From: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/ring-brings-ancient-viking-islamic-civilizations-closer-together How is this even news? There are tons of Viking stuff in Scandinavia that came from Islamic civilizations. Of course they had trade connections. Dalael posted:Archaeological evidence supporting those accounts, though, is rare. This is pure falsehood.
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# ? Mar 22, 2015 18:28 |
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There are literally books that are first hand accounts of Muslims interacting with vikings.
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# ? Mar 22, 2015 18:39 |
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Perhaps Dalael could tell us about Vikings trading with Bolivia instead.
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# ? Mar 22, 2015 18:43 |
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Ynglaur posted:Perhaps Dalael could tell us about Vikings trading with Bolivia instead. This is just petty. I think he was just posting a news article that sounded interesting. What a catastrophe of journalism though. This is like "discovering" that the Celts had contact with the Greeks.
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# ? Mar 22, 2015 18:57 |
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I think there was a Celt in Ancient Greece (not at all uncommon) who ended up becoming a writer and a playwright (certainly uncommon). That always tickled me because it goes against all the stereotypes.
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# ? Mar 22, 2015 19:09 |
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:Yeah I have some in similar condition, though no where near as rare/gold/valuable as some of those. Things you learn about coins! I'm used to seeing people dig up ancient swords where they look like it had its last fight with the Alien Queen. But that's really cool that we can see something like that, that's nearly in pristine condition.
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# ? Mar 22, 2015 20:16 |
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:This is just petty. I think he was just posting a news article that sounded interesting.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 00:17 |
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Ynglaur posted:You're right: it was rather tasteless of me. I apologize, Dalael. No need to apologize. A little mocking regarding Atlantis is kind of my trademark now. Its all cool. I figured the article was kind of interesting, as I am not too familiar with Norse history. I knew they have traveled far and wide, but what peaked my interest mainly are the dates involved. quote:Scandinavians traded for fancy glass objects from Egypt and Mesopotamia as early as 3,400 years ago (SN: 1/24/15, p. 8). Thus, seagoing Scandinavians could have acquired glass items from Islamic traders in the same part of the world more than 2,000 years later rather than waiting for such desirable pieces to move north through trade networks. I did not know their trade networks extended to this part of the world that far back in time. Or maybe just regular trade networks... Either ways, it was an interesting thing to note.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 04:05 |
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Dalael posted:I did not know their trade networks extended to this part of the world that far back in time. Or maybe just regular trade networks... Either ways, it was an interesting thing to note.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 04:29 |
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cheerfullydrab posted:I'm not picking on you, but I always wonder why people think the ancient world was less connected than it was. Long distance travel seems pretty hard to a lot of people. Simple as that.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 04:34 |
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Read up on ibn Battuta, who saw more of the world on foot and sail than most people do with cars and airlines. It was harder yeah, but hardly impossible.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 04:37 |
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Agean90 posted:Read up on ibn Battuta, who saw more of the world on foot and sail than most people do with cars and airlines. I'm aware, the point is most people aren't.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 05:06 |
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Dalael posted:No need to apologize. A little mocking regarding Atlantis is kind of my trademark now. Its all cool. 1400 BC is early enough that a Scandinavian in possession of an Egyptian ring probably didn't actually visit Egypt.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 05:20 |
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cheerfullydrab posted:I'm not picking on you, but I always wonder why people think the ancient world was less connected than it was. Before I started reading and learning about ancient history a couple years ago I would have been shocked to find out that Chinese goods wound up in Rome, or that the Greeks knew about Britain. Even my good history teachers in highschool really compartmentalized the different cultures; one semester you learn about the Egyptians, then one semester about the Romans, then if you're lucky maybe about the Greeks but that was about it. You just never think about them interacting until you find out they did.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 06:11 |
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Exactly- I think that's why we're so fascinated by the thought of Roman-Chinese encounters, because they're taught as "different worlds". I thought Buddhist philosophy making its way to Greece was some kind of revisionism/conspiracy theory for the longest time until I saw an obviously Greek statue of Buddha in a museum.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 06:44 |
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Kellsterik posted:Exactly- I think that's why we're so fascinated by the thought of Roman-Chinese encounters, because they're taught as "different worlds". I thought Buddhist philosophy making its way to Greece was some kind of revisionism/conspiracy theory for the longest time until I saw an obviously Greek statue of Buddha in a museum. Reminds me of a story from World War Two. After D-Day the 101st Airborne were having trouble identifying a particular group of four POWs. They were obviously from Asia but nobody involved with the prisoners could figure out any more than that. Turns out they were Korean. They had been conscripted into the Japanese Army in Manchuria, were captured by the Soviets and IIRC put on forced labor duties somewhere in western Russia where they were captured again by the Nazis, and like a surprising number of Russian prisoners they ended up in Normandy as German auxiliaries, where they were when Operation Overlord went down and the U.S. paratroopers got them. Sounds like an urban legend, but it was a real bunch of guys. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Mar 23, 2015 |
# ? Mar 23, 2015 07:10 |
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Agean90 posted:Read up on ibn Battuta, who saw more of the world on foot and sail than most people do with cars and airlines. This is simply amazing. Can you imagine the strength of character and fortitude needed for such travels back then? Having to leave your family behind, not knowing if you will ever see them again. The risks this person faced. Storms, ships sinking, pirates, diseases, wars, etc... Thanks for bringing him up, it was a really entertaining read. cheerfullydrab posted:I'm not picking on you, but I always wonder why people think the ancient world was less connected than it was. I think Fork of Unknown Origins has a point regarding the way history is taught in school. I remember from high school learning about different cultures, but only in terms of what their culture were like, what kind of monuments they built, and some of their wars. There is not much that is being taught regarding their trading habits and diplomacy outside of warfare. This may just be generalization, but I believe that most people are not interested in history other than scratching the surface and will never really dig enough to find out about these things. Add to this what I think is a commonly held belief that traveling in the past must have been hard and perilous, it become a little more understandable why people would think the world was not as connected. That's my theory anyways. Slim Jim Pickens posted:1400 BC is early enough that a Scandinavian in possession of an Egyptian ring probably didn't actually visit Egypt. That is what I figure also, although I do not discount the possibility of it happening. It is a bit surprising and fascinating to learn about this subject. When I think of trade between nations back in the ancient world, I usually have the spice trade and silk road in mind. Mostly East / West interactions. I never gave much thought towards North / South interactions and trading routes. (If that makes any sense)
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 07:25 |
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:1400 BC is early enough that a Scandinavian in possession of an Egyptian ring probably didn't actually visit Egypt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Road That wikipedia article specifically mentions that Tutankhamen's tomb had Baltic amber in it. I've read about that in places that weren't wikipedia, also. Yes, these things moved from middleman to middleman, but it's a fact that there was a very well established route. There's no reason a person couldn't make the trip themselves. Here's one of my favorite examples of ancient trade: http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/ZRfYPmVMSgmqZyFEY8VRJA This decorative axe was found in Britain, near Canterbury. It dates back to ~4000 BC. They've managed to find the exact boulder it was quarried from, which is high up in the Alps in present-day Italy. Connections, connections, connections.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 08:44 |
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cheerfullydrab posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Road There's nothing keeping an object from being moved hundreds of miles, but there's plenty keeping an individual from doing it. Just the possibility of the journey can't be used as evidence for it actually happening. By that logic, Ibn Battuta is nothing special, and journies like his were happening since the Ummayads. Dalael posted:
You might be interested inn the Mediterranean-Briton tin trade, which has the advantage of pertinence to British history and so actually gets studied.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 09:58 |
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:You might be interested inn the Mediterranean-Briton tin trade, which has the advantage of pertinence to British history and so actually gets studied. Might especially be interested in the fact that the Carthaginians locked down the straits of Gibraltar, allowing nobody but their ships into the Atlantic, partially as a way of keeping the source of their Cornish tin a mystery from other Mediterranean peoples.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 10:30 |
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The article was just dumb. It's a cool find but Vikings establishing trade routes to the Muslim world has been A Thing about the Vikings for a long time. I'm pretty certain the Rus happened entirely because of Vikings having trade routes down the rivers to the ERE/Muslims.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 10:38 |
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The national anthropology museum in Spain has a lot of really cool stuff in regards to pre-roman Spain, and it illustrates the interconnectedness of the ancient world really well.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 19:51 |
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Pretty sure I read once that dogs from Ireland were exported to Rome
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 20:43 |
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Reminds me of a story from World War Two. After D-Day the 101st Airborne were having trouble identifying a particular group of four POWs. They were obviously from Asia but nobody involved with the prisoners could figure out any more than that. Turns out they were Korean. They had been conscripted into the Japanese Army in Manchuria, were captured by the Soviets and IIRC put on forced labor duties somewhere in western Russia where they were captured again by the Nazis, and like a surprising number of Russian prisoners they ended up in Normandy as German auxiliaries, where they were when Operation Overlord went down and the U.S. paratroopers got them. And in the other direction you have the Roman soldiers ending up in western China by way of Carrhae. Completely unverifiable, of course, but that hasn't stopped the locals from trying to cash in.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 20:55 |
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:Before I started reading and learning about ancient history a couple years ago I would have been shocked to find out that Chinese goods wound up in Rome, or that the Greeks knew about Britain. Even my good history teachers in highschool really compartmentalized the different cultures; one semester you learn about the Egyptians, then one semester about the Romans, then if you're lucky maybe about the Greeks but that was about it. You just never think about them interacting until you find out they did.
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# ? Mar 23, 2015 21:19 |
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I was reading recently about the Dorian invasion of Mycenaean Greece and the idea that the invaders essentially supplanted the culture of the "original" Greek inhabitants. The book was quite old however and made it clear that there was room for doubt over the whole affair. I was wondering how credible this view is today? It's not a subject I know much about and had previously assumed that all the ancient Greeks of recorded history were more or less the same group of people. Is this something that likely happened and if so how much continuity was there between the Mycenaeans and later Greeks?
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# ? Mar 24, 2015 01:44 |
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I believe the modern consensus is that the Dorian Invasion didn't happen and the Dorians as such may not have even existed in the form that the invasion thesis describes. There's a great deal of continuity between Mycenaean Greece and Classical Greece. The Mycenaeans spoke an earlier form of Greek which had several sounds and letters that disappeared from the language, leaving IIRC some odd moments in Homer's poems where the hexametric verse structure breaks down because of those missing sounds (example being that the Mycenaean word for "overlord" was wanax but it changed to anax because the "w", known as Digamma disappeared from Greek between Homer's time and the return of practical literacy to the Aegean world). There's also quite a few Greek names that are attested in Myceanean Linear B records (Linear B is the writing system the Mycenaeans used for their form of Greek, it's completely different from the later Greek alphabet and was largely a record-keeping language, so when the palace-based Mycenaean civilization fell apart at the end of the Bronze Age along with most of the rest of the Mediterranean world, the population of Greece quickly lapsed into illiteracy), the most important example I can think of which is the name Achilles. The fact that Achilles is an attested Mycenaean name, along with other bits and pieces from archaeology and history, suggest that there was probably a Trojan War, if not the Trojan War that Homer recounts. I'm not a classicist though, so I'm probably mistaken on some of the details. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Mar 24, 2015 |
# ? Mar 24, 2015 02:36 |
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Thanks. Do you know why the Dorian invasion theory appeared in the first place? I.e. what it was meant to explain or account for. It does seem like an odd thing to posit without any primary sources or archeological evidence. Or was it simply a case of "Mycenaean Greece collapsed = probably invaders"? Captain Mediocre fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Mar 24, 2015 |
# ? Mar 24, 2015 02:51 |
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Captain Mediocre posted:Thanks. Do you know why the Dorian invasion theory appeared in the first place? I.e. what it was meant to explain or account for. It does seem like an odd thing to posit without any primary sources or archeological evidence. The Ancient Greeks themselves apparently believed in it, and until the twentieth century there just wasn't enough historical or archaeological evidence to confirm or deny that narrative. There's a decent Wikipedia article on the subject. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Mar 24, 2015 |
# ? Mar 24, 2015 02:59 |
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Captain Mediocre posted:Thanks. Do you know why the Dorian invasion theory appeared in the first place? I.e. what it was meant to explain or account for. It does seem like an odd thing to posit without any primary sources or archeological evidence. The "Dorian invasion" was contemporaneous with the Sea Peoples invasions, so there's a natural connection made between the two. It seems improbable to me that the end of the Mycenaean civilization and the Sea Peoples are unrelated. Along with the collapse of Mycenaean Greece, the Hittites in Anatolia were wiped out, the Assyrians were nearly so, and the Egyptians were severely weakened. Something momentous happened in the Eastern Mediterranean about 1250-1200 BC, but there aren't very good records as to just what it was all about. This is just about the time iron smelting was discovered, as well, which is also probably related to it all. Some of the Sea Peoples were certainly Greeks, possibly Mycenaean refugees. The Philistines, for example, were originally Sea Peoples who were bought off by the Egyptians with land, and their culture shows very distinct Greek influence.
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# ? Mar 24, 2015 03:09 |
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Without the Bronze Age Collapse, we'd have a constant narrative of civilization in the Mediterranean from the Neolithic up to today. It's one of the greatest breaks in continuity in all of human history. So much was lost, and it definitely happened, but we still don't know why. This has lead and probably will continue to lead to a whole bunch of crazy theories, some of which go so far back as to the period when people were picking up the pieces afterwards.
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# ? Mar 24, 2015 03:37 |
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actually it was atlantean mafiosos e: literally 'Latin Americans'
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# ? Mar 24, 2015 08:21 |
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Would be hilarious if it turns out the Greeks themselves were the Sea People.
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# ? Mar 24, 2015 10:12 |
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my dad posted:Would be hilarious if it turns out the Greeks themselves were the Sea People. Bronze Age collapse was an inside job!
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# ? Mar 24, 2015 13:39 |
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Greek fire can't melt marble beams.
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# ? Mar 24, 2015 13:51 |
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Cato lied Carthage died
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# ? Mar 24, 2015 14:01 |
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# ? May 14, 2024 01:52 |
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Grand Fromage posted:Cato lied Carthage died New thread title?
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# ? Mar 24, 2015 14:26 |