quote:

More than a century after its discovery in a ninth century woman’s grave, an engraved ring has revealed evidence of close contacts between Viking Age Scandinavians and the Islamic world.

Excavators of a Viking trading center in Sweden called Birka recovered the silver ring in the late 1800s. Until now, it was thought that it featured a violet amethyst engraved with Arabic-looking characters. But closer inspection with a scanning electron microscope revealed that the presumed amethyst is colored glass (an exotic material at the time), say biophysicist Sebastian Wärmländer of Stockholm University and his colleagues.

An inscription on the glass inset reads either “for Allah” or “to Allah” in an ancient Arabic script, the researchers report February 23 in Scanning.

Scandinavians traded for fancy glass objects from Egypt and Mesopotamia as early as 3,400 years ago (SN: 1/24/15, p. 8). Thus, seagoing Scandinavians could have acquired glass items from Islamic traders in the same part of the world more than 2,000 years later rather than waiting for such desirable pieces to move north through trade networks.

Ancient texts mention encounters around 1,000 years ago between Scandinavians and members of the Islamic civilization, which stretched from West Asia to Mediterranean lands. Archaeological evidence supporting those accounts, though, is rare.

The inner surface of the Birka ring’s silver body shows virtually no signs of wear. Filing marks made in the final stage of its production are still visible. That suggests that the ring made by an Arabic silversmith had few or no owners before it reached the Viking woman, the researchers say.

Dalael posted:

From: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/ring-brings-ancient-viking-islamic-civilizations-closer-together

Dalael posted:

Archaeological evidence supporting those accounts, though, is rare.

Ynglaur posted:

Perhaps Dalael could tell us about Vikings trading with Bolivia instead.

Cast_No_Shadow posted:

Yeah I have some in similar condition, though no where near as rare/gold/valuable as some of those.

Greek coins tend to do well due to the quality of construction, the metals just seems to do better in the ground and their high quality strikes keep their detail pretty well.

Gold coins also have the benefit of never being debased so they are always pretty pure gold (they just got smaller/lighter with the same face value) and gold is notably unreactive. Bury some gold and in 2000 years you can dig it up and it will not have changed much. Dust it down and you would be hard pressed to tell any difference. The romans at least also put more effort into their gold coins compared to silver/bronze so they tend to look pretty drat amazing.

Silver also benefits from being cleanable with acid. As its a nobeler metal than copper and was often horded with copper coins the copper takes the brunt of the damage from being burried and the silver can often get away pretty free. The rest of the dirt can be removed easily with citric acid easily and if these were done in the 30s thats plent of time for them to retone and look 'old' rather than mint new.

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

This is just petty. I think he was just posting a news article that sounded interesting.

What a catastrophe of journalism though. This is like "discovering" that the Celts had contact with the Greeks.

Ynglaur posted:

You're right: it was rather tasteless of me. I apologize, Dalael.

quote:

Scandinavians traded for fancy glass objects from Egypt and Mesopotamia as early as 3,400 years ago (SN: 1/24/15, p. 8). Thus, seagoing Scandinavians could have acquired glass items from Islamic traders in the same part of the world more than 2,000 years later rather than waiting for such desirable pieces to move north through trade networks.

Dalael posted:

Dalael posted:

I did not know their trade networks extended to this part of the world that far back in time. Or maybe just regular trade networks... Either ways, it was an interesting thing to note.

cheerfullydrab posted:

I'm not picking on you, but I always wonder why people think the ancient world was less connected than it was.

Agean90 posted:

Read up on ibn Battuta, who saw more of the world on foot and sail than most people do with cars and airlines.

It was harder yeah, but hardly impossible.

Dalael posted:

No need to apologize. A little mocking regarding Atlantis is kind of my trademark now. Its all cool.

I figured the article was kind of interesting, as I am not too familiar with Norse history. I knew they have traveled far and wide, but what peaked my interest mainly are the dates involved.


I did not know their trade networks extended to this part of the world that far back in time. Or maybe just regular trade networks... Either ways, it was an interesting thing to note.

cheerfullydrab posted:

I'm not picking on you, but I always wonder why people think the ancient world was less connected than it was.

Kellsterik posted:

Exactly- I think that's why we're so fascinated by the thought of Roman-Chinese encounters, because they're taught as "different worlds". I thought Buddhist philosophy making its way to Greece was some kind of revisionism/conspiracy theory for the longest time until I saw an obviously Greek statue of Buddha in a museum.

Agean90 posted:

Read up on ibn Battuta, who saw more of the world on foot and sail than most people do with cars and airlines.

It was harder yeah, but hardly impossible.

cheerfullydrab posted:

I'm not picking on you, but I always wonder why people think the ancient world was less connected than it was.

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

1400 BC is early enough that a Scandinavian in possession of an Egyptian ring probably didn't actually visit Egypt.

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

1400 BC is early enough that a Scandinavian in possession of an Egyptian ring probably didn't actually visit Egypt.

cheerfullydrab posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Road

That wikipedia article specifically mentions that Tutankhamen's tomb had Baltic amber in it. I've read about that in places that weren't wikipedia, also. Yes, these things moved from middleman to middleman, but it's a fact that there was a very well established route. There's no reason a person couldn't make the trip themselves.

Here's one of my favorite examples of ancient trade:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/ZRfYPmVMSgmqZyFEY8VRJA

This decorative axe was found in Britain, near Canterbury. It dates back to ~4000 BC. They've managed to find the exact boulder it was quarried from, which is high up in the Alps in present-day Italy. Connections, connections, connections.

Dalael posted:

That is what I figure also, although I do not discount the possibility of it happening. It is a bit surprising and fascinating to learn about this subject. When I think of trade between nations back in the ancient world, I usually have the spice trade and silk road in mind. Mostly East / West interactions. I never gave much thought towards North / South interactions and trading routes. (If that makes any sense)

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

You might be interested inn the Mediterranean-Briton tin trade, which has the advantage of pertinence to British history and so actually gets studied.

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

Reminds me of a story from World War Two. After D-Day the 101st Airborne were having trouble identifying a particular group of four POWs. They were obviously from Asia but nobody involved with the prisoners could figure out any more than that. Turns out they were Korean. They had been conscripted into the Japanese Army in Manchuria, were captured by the Soviets and IIRC put on forced labor duties somewhere in western Russia where they were captured again by the Nazis, and like a surprising number of Russian prisoners they ended up in Normandy as German auxiliaries, where they were when Operation Overlord went down and the U.S. paratroopers got them.

Sounds like an urban legend, but it was a real bunch of guys.

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

Before I started reading and learning about ancient history a couple years ago I would have been shocked to find out that Chinese goods wound up in Rome, or that the Greeks knew about Britain. Even my good history teachers in highschool really compartmentalized the different cultures; one semester you learn about the Egyptians, then one semester about the Romans, then if you're lucky maybe about the Greeks but that was about it. You just never think about them interacting until you find out they did.

Captain Mediocre posted:

Thanks. Do you know why the Dorian invasion theory appeared in the first place? I.e. what it was meant to explain or account for. It does seem like an odd thing to posit without any primary sources or archeological evidence.

Or was it simply a case of "Mycenaean Greece collapsed = probably invaders"?

Captain Mediocre posted:

Thanks. Do you know why the Dorian invasion theory appeared in the first place? I.e. what it was meant to explain or account for. It does seem like an odd thing to posit without any primary sources or archeological evidence.

my dad posted:

Would be hilarious if it turns out the Greeks themselves were the Sea People.

Grand Fromage posted:

Cato lied Carthage died