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If You Give a Mouse a Cultural Artefact
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Mar 25, 2015 20:11
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Rent-A-Cop posted:What are your recommendations for literature on the subject? It doesn't exist, what are you talking about. This thread is for asking whether or not I can eat tikka masala without feeling bad.
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Mar 25, 2015 20:11
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Zeitgueist posted:It doesn't exist, what are you talking about. BTW the answer is you can, it's delicious.
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Mar 25, 2015 20:11
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Zeitgueist posted:This thread is for asking whether or not I can eat tikka masala without feeling bad. But can white people eat native american flatbread without feeling bad?
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Mar 25, 2015 20:18
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Jakcson posted:But can white people eat native american flatbread without feeling bad? White people should never ever be made to feel bad about anything.
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Mar 25, 2015 20:20
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:This seems like an incredibly narrow definition of appropriation. well at least now someone's saying the defintion is too narrow rather than too broad Powercrazy posted:The people who are concerned with cultural appropriation. You and the OP for example. White People Feeling Directly Criticized By Discussion Of A Thing: The Thread please never stop being intensely defensive at the slightest suggestion of introspection, white people boner confessor fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 20:31
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Jakcson posted:'Das Kapital', volumes 1, 2, and 3, by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. He said literature, not toilet paper.
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Mar 25, 2015 20:33
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Rodatose posted:Is there a difference between the ideas of transculturation and cultural appropriation besides one having a neutral and the other having a negative connotation due to power imbalance? That's exactly it. Transculturation or cultural diffusion is sharing of culture, appropriation is the taking of culture by using an object or symbol incorrectly in such a way that it is harmful to the original, sincere meaning. I know metalheads who are actually angry that Babymetal is a thing. They are upset about cultural appropriation. e: I disagree with them, I'm just using them as an example of people who have an identity based on some cultural thing who feel threatened when someone else uses that thing in an 'inappropriate' manner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIKqgE4BwAY boner confessor fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 20:37
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Popular Thug Drink posted:That's exactly it. Transculturation or cultural diffusion is sharing of culture, appropriation is the taking of culture by using an object or symbol incorrectly in such a way that it is harmful to the original, sincere meaning. people have unironically suggested this band to me and it is offensive in that they think this is what metal sounds like.
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Mar 25, 2015 20:49
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WoodrowSkillson posted:people have unironically suggested this band to me and it is offensive in that they think this is what metal sounds like. I feel the same way when people unironically say that Metallica is a good heavy metal band.
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Mar 25, 2015 20:50
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Jakcson posted:I feel the same way when people unironically say that Metallica is a good heavy metal band. *resists urge to type, gripping my hands like ash in evil dead*
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Mar 25, 2015 20:52
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WoodrowSkillson posted:*resists urge to type, gripping my hands like ash in evil dead* OK, fine, Master of Puppets is OK, but I think they went downhill from there.
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Mar 25, 2015 20:54
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Jakcson posted:OK, fine, Master of Puppets is OK, but I think they went downhill from there. *nods sagely*
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Mar 25, 2015 20:54
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Popular Thug Drink posted:That's exactly it. Transculturation or cultural diffusion is sharing of culture, appropriation is the taking of culture by using an object or symbol incorrectly in such a way that it is harmful to the original, sincere meaning. Is santeria appropriation or diffusion? Also Babymetal owns.
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Mar 25, 2015 20:57
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Popular Thug Drink posted:well at least now someone's saying the defintion is too narrow rather than too broad Maybe it has to do with being scapegoated on an individual level for being the unwitting beneficiaries of structural problems. Subjectivity is a difficult concept though I get that
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Mar 25, 2015 21:04
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unlimited shrimp posted:Maybe it has to do with being scapegoated on an individual level for being the unwitting beneficiaries of structural problems. if you feel scapegoated by discussion that does not mention you as an individual in any way thats on you, friend or should i slap a big old trigger warning on these posts so you don't feel offended by generalized discussion of societal trends
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Mar 25, 2015 21:08
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Popular Thug Drink posted:if you feel scapegoated by discussion that does not mention you as an individual in any way thats on you, friend Talking more generally about the SJ quip about poor white people being made to feel uncomfortable. I've met enough SJ enthusiasts who like to needle white people because they feel it's justified, but will then turn around and talk about structural injustice and how it's "not about you, individual white person I just mocked."
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Mar 25, 2015 21:20
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Popular Thug Drink posted:if you feel scapegoated by discussion that does not mention you as an individual in any way thats on you, friend I can't imagine what might give an impression to the contrary.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:23
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unlimited shrimp posted:Talking more generally about the SJ quip about poor white people being made to feel uncomfortable. I've met enough SJ enthusiasts who like to needle white people because they feel it's justified, but will then turn around and talk about structural injustice and how it's "not about you, individual white person I just mocked." people as a whole are vain, selfish, stupid, and petty. SJW have good intentions, and are just as lovely as everyone else because humanity sucks.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:24
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Oh cool and now we're complaining about tone arguments. This thread is like a lexicon of lovely argumentation on behalf of people who can't help but be perpetually offended for some dumb reason or another. WARNING: Do NOT read this thread if you are a hypersensitive white person who thinks any discussion of racism in general applies to you, specifically.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:25
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OwlFancier posted:I will grant you both that there are few performers more vapid and idiotic than Katy Perry, and that it isn't a good thing that it happens, but I would probably also define it more as a class problem than a specifically cultural or racial one. Bourgeois appropriation of working class culture is no less valid a form of appropriation than one based on ethnicity.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:25
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WoodrowSkillson posted:people as a whole are vain, selfish, stupid, and petty. SJW have good intentions, and are just as lovely as everyone else because humanity sucks. It's y'all who suck and are wrong.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:26
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Woolie Wool posted:Bourgeois appropriation of working class culture is no less valid a form of appropriation than one based on ethnicity. See, for a particularly obnoxious example, Mumford and Sons.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:26
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There's this one episode of the Hugh Laurie / Steven fry Jeeves and Wooster BBC series where Hugh Laurie wears blackface I could be wrong but I think they're saying the guys in blackface are assholes?
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Mar 25, 2015 21:26
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paranoid randroid posted:See, for a particularly obnoxious example, Mumford and Sons. Fuckers from the burbs singin' about farms.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:27
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Effectronica posted:Agreed, let's ignore what the word "appropriation" means because we can't tell the difference between liking J-Rock and insisting that paying a con man ten thousand dollars for an hour in a smoke-filled sauna is authentic Indian religion. Who gives a poo poo. Culture is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:27
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Woolie Wool posted:Bourgeois appropriation of working class culture is no less valid a form of appropriation than one based on ethnicity. I wasn't really thinking of that as much as being rich and famous probably doesn't encourage you to be a very good or considerate person. Popular Thug Drink posted:Oh cool and now we're complaining about tone arguments. "It's not my fault if you get offended by blanket insults directed at your ethnicity" is an interesting line that I will have to try next time I feel like complaining about black people. Because obviously it wasn't directed at you particularly. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 21:28
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"tone argument" doesn't really apply here.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:28
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dogcrash truther posted:I could be wrong but I think they're saying the guys in blackface are assholes? Oh they are, on like multiple different levels, and they're British so they don't really get it but still. Still. Don't put on blackface, Hugh Laurie. Just don't. Not even once.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:36
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paranoid randroid posted:See, for a particularly obnoxious example, Mumford and Sons. Also the whole "elitism" business and genre hairsplitting in heavy metal fandom is really about trying to prevent their form of music from being appropriated and commodified by bourgeois society because having your culture turned into a token for rich people to use to compete based on leisure tastes is bad but most metalheads are neither well educated nor articulate, and thus rant at "posers" and "hipsters" or engage in rank misogyny, homophobia, or racism.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:39
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Woolie Wool posted:Also the whole "elitism" business and genre hairsplitting in heavy metal fandom is really about trying to prevent their form of music from being appropriated and commodified by bourgeois society because having your culture turned into a token for rich people to use to compete based on leisure tastes is bad but most metalheads are neither well educated nor articulate, and thus rant at "posers" and "hipsters" or engage in rank misogyny or racism. Which I really don't get because they mostly whinge at each other. I don't think anybody else really gives a buggery about metal or its subgenres.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:41
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unlimited shrimp posted:Talking more generally about the SJ quip about poor white people being made to feel uncomfortable. I've met enough SJ enthusiasts who like to needle white people because they feel it's justified, but will then turn around and talk about structural injustice and how it's "not about you, individual white person I just mocked." Truly the worst form of discrimination, also the only one that we can ever find examples of, is that which is directed towards white people. Also I like how folks have moved away from SJW to "SJ enthusist" because they realize the insane bigots who threaten to bomb feminists use the same terms and it might make them look bad.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:43
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OwlFancier posted:"It's not my fault if you get offended by blanket insults directed at your ethnicity" is an interesting line that I will have to try next time I feel like complaining about black people. Because obviously it wasn't directed at you particularly. Why Can't I Use The N Word: The Musical also why do you think general discussion of racism or cultural appropriation is a 'blanket insult directed at your ethnicity' you've got problems, hoss
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Mar 25, 2015 21:43
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Woolie Wool posted:Also the whole "elitism" business and genre hairsplitting in heavy metal fandom is really about trying to prevent their form of music from being appropriated and commodified by bourgeois society because having your culture turned into a token for rich people to use to compete based on leisure tastes is bad but most metalheads are neither well educated nor articulate, and thus rant at "posers" and "hipsters" or engage in rank misogyny, homophobia, or racism. metalheads argue about this because inherently many of them are already social outcasts and weirdoes and they over attach themselves to the musical genera of their choice and then derive self worth from their perceived status in the metal community.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:44
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"Man, I can't believe racism is still a problem in tyool 2015" "How DARE YOU suggest that white people are racist! I'm not a racist! I demand an apology!"
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Mar 25, 2015 21:46
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Margaret Kartomi. 1980. “The Processes and Results of Musical Contact: A Discussion of Terminology and Concepts.” Ethnomusicology, 25(2): 227-249 is a good article about acculturation in music. (she also has some problems with the term acculturation).
Lumius fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 21:54
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Series DD Funding posted:Is santeria appropriation or diffusion? It's syncretism
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Mar 25, 2015 21:58
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Why Can't I Use The N Word: The Musical Not entirely sure that is all this thread is about.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:02
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OwlFancier posted:Not entirely sure that is all this thread is about. you were being whiny before one random goon said something mean about whites why can't you take responsibility for yourself? do you just drift through life in a hazy fog of reactions to percieved insults with no agency over your own bad opinions? do you somehow not think that 99% of people posting itt are white or something? what's life like when you go out of your way to be offended at words on the internet? p.s. kill whitey boner confessor fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 22:04
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Zeitgueist posted:Truly the worst form of discrimination, also the only one that we can ever find examples of, is that which is directed towards white people. I think "SJ enthusiast" more accurately captures the concept of a person who dimly spouts received social justice concepts to signify their solidarity with the tribe, but who hasn't seriously interrogated any of the ideas
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Mar 25, 2015 22:04
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