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The Republican Party has decided to gift a senate seat to the Dems for 2016, as Mike Delph will be announcing his candidacy tomorrow for the Indiana senate seat. Mike Delph is a nut. He makes Ted Cruz look like Bernie Sanders. More than once he has had full on meltdowns (and it completely deserves the term) on Twitter about such pressing topics as "do gay people exist". He is so extreme that last year in a GOP wave his gerrymandered district tossed him out for a Democrat. (And having done some work on that campaign, it was just your standard thing. We didn't pull any rabbits out of hats there, it was regular retail politics). If you follow the Freep thread, think SavageSusie, but a state representative. There is obviously plenty of time for other republican candidates to enter, but wow, Delph as the competition. I was joking yesterday, but even I could beat him, the give the man a mic and he sinks himself.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:03
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Stultus Maximus posted:Desertion in time of war can be punished by death but it hasn't happened since 1944. And it was someone who got "just return to your unit and we'll forget this entire thing happened" at every step in his command up to Eisenhower and his response was to say he'd never go back and he'd rather be shot.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:03
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hobbesmaster posted:And it was someone who got "just return to your unit and we'll forget this entire thing happened" at every step in his command up to Eisenhower and his response was to say he'd never go back and he'd rather be shot. And then was somewhat surprised when they opted to shoot him.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:08
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Quidam Viator posted:I think your frustration comes from the fact that the two parties just aren't playing the same game. Would you be willing to sacrifice a consistency with wishing to provide for the public good and do obstructionist, dirty game-playing just so you could win? But that's exactly what leftists did in America back in the day to establish things like the weekend, workplace safety, etc.? Is there anything more obstructionist than a general strike?
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Mar 25, 2015 22:09
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Raskolnikov38 posted:And then was somewhat surprised when they opted to shoot him. Well since literally no other person had been executed for desertion in a century...
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Mar 25, 2015 22:10
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Stultus Maximus posted:Well since literally no other person had been executed for desertion in a century... The guy was also a notoriously bad poker player.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:16
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Radbot posted:But that's exactly what leftists did in America back in the day to establish things like the weekend, workplace safety, etc.? Is there anything more obstructionist than a general strike? Hey, I couldn't agree more. I have a lot of my crazy beliefs because I feel like people on the left SHOULD be in full revolt, but that the system has become so good at containing and repressing even the idea of progressive change that it creates a massive dissonance between what is and what should be. My question is: How bad does it have to get before people will stand up and fight for populist causes again? Apparently, the answer is: PRETTY FUCKEN BAD.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:23
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I wonder, would the world as a whole have been better if the Nazis survived and they were the one America ended up in a Cold War for 50 years against? Fascism would be stigmatized, not communism. Say that the German Empire collapses in 1991 in this alt history too. Tons of purges happen in Western Europe, along the same scale as happened in Soviet Russia. But as a result, the rest of the world comes away with an extremely anti-Nazi mindset.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:30
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JT Jag posted:I wonder, would the world as a whole have been better if the Nazis survived and they were the one America ended up in a Cold War for 50 years against? Fascism would be stigmatized, not communism. Say that the German Empire collapses in 1991 in this alt history too. Tons of purges happen in Western Europe, along the same scale as happened in Soviet Russia. But as a result, the rest of the world comes away with an extremely anti-Nazi mindset. And without having to deal with all those other pesky ethnicities that would have followed the Jews up the chimney. I mean seriously, dude? As bad as the Soviets were at times, there never launched race-based programs of extermination, which the Nazis did and had every intention of continuing had their regime survived.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:32
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Socialism and communism was unpopular in US national politics even before Hitler's fascist rise began. The US has been capitalist and socialism directly flies in the face of that. In fact, the Great Depression was seen as a potential death of US capitalism. Good thing people don't actually learn lessons.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:33
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Boon posted:A terrible person. are troops are sacred
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Mar 25, 2015 22:33
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DemeaninDemon posted:I made this comment in the Freep thread. He's the new Palin. I dunno about Palin, I think she's probably just "that dumb." I won't discount it as a possibility though.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:34
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joeburz posted:are troops are sacred I take it back, you're not terrible but just stupid (or at least your opinion on the military is). It's okay though, because you probably know very little to nothing about it.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:34
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Captain_Maclaine posted:And without having to deal with all those pesky ethnicities that would have followed the Jews up the chimney. I mean seriously, dude? As bad as the Soviets were at times, there never launched race-based programs of extermination, which the Nazis did and had every intention of continuing had their regime survived. That said, it's a moot point, because if the Nazis survived they wouldn't have been nearly as conservative with nuclear weapons as the Soviets were. They would have dropped bombs the moment their Cuban Missile Crisis equivalent happened.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:36
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Captain_Maclaine posted:And without having to deal with all those other pesky ethnicities that would have followed the Jews up the chimney. I mean seriously, dude? As bad as the Soviets were at times, there never launched race-based programs of extermination, which the Nazis did and had every intention of continuing had their regime survived. While I'm not arguing that it would have been better with Nazis, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union
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Mar 25, 2015 22:38
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Radbot posted:I found a lot of allegations but very little evidence, do you happen to have any? There's a few years of articles on this, but here's a latter day example of it: quote:Perhaps the most specific evidence until now of direct Iranian support for attacks on U.S. troops came in May 2009 after the discovery of a cache of weapons in a riverbank in Iraq’s eastern Maysan province, a majority-Shiite enclave that borders Iran. The cache included 150 copper plates that had been professionally milled for use in a particularly deadly type of device known as “explosively formed projectile” bombs. The cache also included sophisticated launching rails for rockets that are designed to increase range and accuracy. It was later linked to an Iraqi militia that U.S. officials say is trained and equipped by Iran. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/war-zones/weapons-prove-iranian-role-in-iraq-us-says/2011/07/05/gHQAUnkmzH_story.html And then you have high-up Iranian officials creating that same narrative, i.e. Qussaim Suleimani kicking the US out of Iraq. The Iraqi government might have been Shia, but don't underestimate the salivating present in bleeding American power in the region, a task Iran more than accomplished, with applomb.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:39
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JT Jag posted:I wonder, would the world as a whole have been better if the Nazis survived and they were the one America ended up in a Cold War for 50 years against? Fascism would be stigmatized, not communism. Say that the German Empire collapses in 1991 in this alt history too. Tons of purges happen in Western Europe, along the same scale as happened in Soviet Russia. But as a result, the rest of the world comes away with an extremely anti-Nazi mindset. I doubt we would have gotten into a Cold War in the Nazis in this scenario where they conquer Russia I guess? The Manhattan Project had Soviet sympathizers which led to MAD, I doubt anyone would have leaked the bomb to Germany. WW2 just would have been longer and more radioactive.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:40
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Boon posted:Socialism and communism was unpopular in US national politics even before Hitler's fascist rise began. Another recommendation: try reading about the red scare of 1919. Also responsible for the career of John "Ladygarments" Hoover.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:43
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McDowell posted:I doubt we would have gotten into a Cold War in the Nazis in this scenario where they conquer Russia I guess? The Manhattan Project had Soviet sympathizers which led to MAD, I doubt anyone would have leaked the bomb to Germany. WW2 just would have been longer and more radioactive. Yep. Nazi Germany didn't have the ability to sustain a Cold War the way Russia did.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:43
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JT Jag posted:It's horrifying, I know, but it's a theoretical in the sense that even though the means are insane, the ends might have provided a brighter future for humanity long term. I dunno about that; I think one thing that's important to keep in mind is that the vast majority of Stalin's purges and mass murders happened before World War II started, not after. That's not me trying to take away any of the significance from those murders, of course - my grandfather lost his whole family in the Gulag, after all. But they had mostly happened by that point, while Nazism's doctrines of racial purity suggest to me that the mass killings would have continued. While we obviously can't know for sure since it's such a counterfactual, it seems unlikely to me that Hitler's genocides would have stopped had he won the war, and in that sense, it's tough for me to see him winning as a less-bad outcome.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:45
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Stultus Maximus posted:While I'm not arguing that it would have been better with Nazis, That's why I edited "genocide" into "extermination," as Soviet population movements and suppression of some client peoples arguably qualifies for the former without specifically being the latter. And though yes, some have argued that the Holodomor was intentionally inflicted on Ukraine, I don't think it's nearly as clear a case as what Adolf and co. were up to, what with Generalplan Ost and the Wannsee Conference (to pick only two example) laying out, in their own voices "this is who we want to kill, where they live, and how we plan on getting rid of them. JT Jag posted:It's horrifying, I know, but it's a theoretical in the sense that even though the means are insane, the ends might have provided a brighter future for humanity long term. As others have pointed out, America had a hard anti-socialist bent long before anyone put on a brown uniform, plus it is paint-huffing levels of ridiculous to suggest that "well at least then Americans might stigmatize fascism more than it currently does socialism" is in any way a "brighter future," considering the even-greater-than-what-happened mounds of corpses your scenario would result in. Nintendo Kid posted:Yep. Nazi Germany didn't have the ability to sustain a Cold War the way Russia did. They also didn't have the ability to, you know, survive WWII, but that apparently happens in JT Jag's ludicrous counter-factual. Plus even if they did, the Nazi mindset favors periodic warfare as a way of keeping the Volk strong, and Hitler's second, unpublished book lays out that he really thought he'd need to invade North America once he'd gotten Europe wrapped up, so it's not like they'd even been inclined to go Cold War-ish, nukes or not. Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 22:46
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Captain_Maclaine posted:That's why I edited "genocide" into "extermination," as Soviet population movements and suppression of some client peoples arguably qualifies for the former without specifically being the latter. And though yes, some have argued that the Holodomor was intentionally inflicted on Ukraine, I don't think it's nearly as clear a case as what Adolf and co. were up to, what with Generalplan Ost and the Wannsee Conference (to pick only two example) laying out, in their own voices "this is who we want to kill, where they live, and how we plan on getting rid of them. Boy oh boy, by the way, if you want to see a really good movie about the Wannsee Conference, check out the HBO movie "Conspiracy." It's really superb. Kenneth Branagh plays Heydrich, and he is hoooorrifying in it.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:48
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Just a reminder that right now, in this thread, goons are unironically discussing the possibility of Nazi Germany being 'a better outcome' after the last 50 years. vvvvvvvvvvvvvvv clarifying: the fact that it was suggested at all is completely  -worthyspecifically this JT Jag posted:It's horrifying, I know, but it's a theoretical in the sense that even though the means are insane, the ends might have provided a brighter future for humanity long term. HiroProtagonist fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 22:49
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Majorian posted:Boy oh boy, by the way, if you want to see a really good movie about the Wannsee Conference, check out the HBO movie "Conspiracy." It's really superb. Kenneth Branagh plays Heydrich, and he is hoooorrifying in it. I've seen it, and agree. HiroProtagonist posted:Just a reminder that right now, in this thread, goons are unironically discussing the possibility of Nazi Germany being 'a better outcome' after the last 50 years. I hope I've made clear just how appallingly dumb I find that, but in case I've not been clear: that idea is appallingly dumb.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:51
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Fried Chicken posted:The Republican Party has decided to gift a senate seat to the Dems for 2016, as Mike Delph will be announcing his candidacy tomorrow for the Indiana senate seat. Dan Coats' Chief of Staff and former state GOP chair Eric Holcomb is also declaring tomorrow.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:54
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Shageletic posted:There's a few years of articles on this, but here's a latter day example of it: So the US military says that a group affiliated with Iran made the charges, interesting. I can't seem to find any sources that have any evidence beyond that, because by itself that doesn't really sound like it implicates Iran, the state, at all.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:55
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@GayPatriot 
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Mar 25, 2015 22:55
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JT Jag posted:But as a result, the rest of the world comes away with an extremely anti-Nazi mindset. I am positive this happened anyway.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:56
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Boon posted:I take it back, you're not terrible but just stupid (or at least your opinion on the military is). sorry if not everyone fellates the troops which are at best poor people without equal opportunities that see enlisting as their best chance, or at worst psychotic morons gleefully enforcing american hegemony under the pretenses of bringing freedom and liberty to people by killing them
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Mar 25, 2015 22:59
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joeburz posted:sorry if not everyone fellates the troops which are at best poor people without equal opportunities that see enlisting as their best chance, or at worst psychotic morons gleefully enforcing american hegemony under the pretenses of bringing freedom and liberty to people by killing them Considering the majority of enlistees come from middle class backgrounds...
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Mar 25, 2015 23:00
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Radbot posted:Considering the majority of enlistees come from middle class backgrounds... which is why most of then dont fall into the "at best" category and something more in line with the other
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Mar 25, 2015 23:01
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The Queen of the Hill House Budget battle is on and we're in the fifth round. So far: Ellison Amendment 1 (Progressive Caucus) fails 96-330 Butterfield Amendment 2 (Black Caucus) fails 120-306 Stutzman Amendment 3 (Republican Study) fails 132-294 Van Hollen Amendment 4 (Democratic) fails 160-264 The House is currently voting on Price Amendment 5 after which it will vote on Price Amendment 6, which is the same as 5, but with extra funding of the Overseas Contingency Fund with no offset. Deficit hawks want 5 to win, defense hawks want 6 to win. As a reminder, whichever of these gets the most votes will be the budget.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:01
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HiroProtagonist posted:Just a reminder that right now, in this thread, goons are unironically discussing the possibility of Nazi Germany being 'a better outcome' after the last 50 years. Hey, I come in here to stir up exactly this kind of poo poo, because I think it reveals exactly how dead-ended earnest progressivism or leftism is today. Even that horrifying alt-history Nazi poo poo isn't crazy enough thinking to create an America in 2015 that would orient itself toward solidarity and the common good. I don't think people fully appreciate how checkmated America is into its current pattern, and how little time we have left to fix things while it's "easy" like it is now. You know, before all the soil is depleted in a few decades, California's in a superdrought, Florida's underwater, and our infrastructure and entitlement programs detonate because nobody has moved on anything significant. Plus pay is stagnant and automation isn't slowing down. These aren't conspiracy-theory ideas. The poo poo's happening.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:01
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Joementum posted:The Queen of the Hill House Budget battle is on and we're in the fifth round. So far: I got a $100 on Rectal Exam budget!
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Mar 25, 2015 23:02
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Quidam Viator posted:Hey, I come in here to stir up exactly this kind of poo poo, because I think it reveals exactly how dead-ended earnest progressivism or leftism is today. Even that horrifying alt-history Nazi poo poo isn't crazy enough thinking to create an America in 2015 that would orient itself toward solidarity and the common good. I don't think people fully appreciate how checkmated America is into its current pattern, and how little time we have left to fix things while it's "easy" like it is now. You know, before all the soil is depleted in a few decades, California's in a superdrought, Florida's underwater, and our infrastructure and entitlement programs detonate because nobody has moved on anything significant. Plus pay is stagnant and automation isn't slowing down. Phonebank for
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Mar 25, 2015 23:04
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Sir Tonk posted:@GayPatriot What is the gay version of an Uncle Tom, I wonder?
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Mar 25, 2015 23:10
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If only fascism was viewed negatively, then we wouldn't have had those Republicans comparing Bush to Hitler.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:11
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Majorian posted:What is the gay version of an Uncle Tom, I wonder? A uncle Rohm.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:13
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joeburz posted:sorry if not everyone fellates the troops which are at best poor people without equal opportunities that see enlisting as their best chance, or at worst psychotic morons gleefully enforcing american hegemony under the pretenses of bringing freedom and liberty to people by killing them The least you could do is use some punctuation, but this is some real Ben Carson logic. 75% of enlisted come from families with a median household income of less than $65,000. By all means, explain to me how they're so well off that they just want to go out and kill people for fun. Turns out that if someone plans accordingly, there is a huge economic advantage to joining the military as well as the potential to develop very useful skill sets that you just don't get by graduating from college and then immediately working as a lowly peon in some accounting department. Generally speaking though, it's disenfranchised people that join and feel like they could do something better, but they just don't know what. Then a recruiter comes along and says (lies) they can do intel, comms, network security, or some other great job. In reality they end up chipping paint and tending lines. In the process however, they build some leadership, communication, team management, and organizational skills whether they know it or not. They get out because the military enlisted life sucks and go back to school using their GI Bill and are much better off than they were and likely ahead of their peers. Alternatively, they get married/buy a house/have a kid/really don't have a better option and end up staying in the military because of the steady paycheck. TL:DR, you really are an idiot. Boon fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 23:13
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computer parts posted:If only fascism was viewed negatively, then we wouldn't have had those Republicans comparing Bush to Hitler. I know what asinine point you think you're making but the whole point of those comparisons was fascism bad and Bush is bad. And the people that did that are idiots but Republicans are way worse about Obama and it's much more acceptable in the mainstream right.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:15
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