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LeftistMuslimObama posted:I can't decide whether this thread is being trolled or some people are just that bent on posturing a cool tough guy persona at all times, but this "in my day we just killed each other and made up the next day" nonsense is either blatantly untrue or you've had a lot of disorderly conduct convictions. I think it was well framed a couple pages back -- if a professional sports figure would have done something like that, there would have been a consequence, but the consequence would have been much less severe than losing his job. Clarkson is not an office employee, he's closer to a sports figure than he is to an office employee, so the standard "he punched someone in the workplace" does not apply, since his workplace is not a 9-5 job... he's talent for a fantastically large production that generates a huge amount of money... in fact, keeping scores of people employed in office employee jobs. Did he make a bad choice? Yep. Was alcohol a factor? Possibly, maybe probably. Was it worth throwing the baby out with the pant-shitted bathwater? I don't think so. They spent decades grooming Clarkson's persona, then fired him when his face grew to fit the mask.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:02
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EVERYWHERE 
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Big Mean Jerk posted:This thread is Reddit. ^
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Mar 25, 2015 23:11
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meatpimp posted:I think it was well framed a couple pages back -- if a professional sports figure would have done something like that, there would have been a consequence, but the consequence would have been much less severe than losing his job. Clarkson is not an office employee, he's closer to a sports figure than he is to an office employee, so the standard "he punched someone in the workplace" does not apply, since his workplace is not a 9-5 job... he's talent for a fantastically large production that generates a huge amount of money... in fact, keeping scores of people employed in office employee jobs.  I never get enough of this logic process.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:13
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CommieGIR posted:
I get it, you'd rather see a couple dozen people (if not much more) lose their jobs because one guy punched another guy. 
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Mar 25, 2015 23:15
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Dolphin posted:Good dammit. If only Jeremy had hosed a child instead, then Top Gear could still be on the air.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:16
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Reminder that the current captain of the England football team once punched a man to the ground for not liking Phil Collins as much as him, and not once was his position called into question. Also that the removal of the previous captain for calling someone a "loving black oval office" was considered controversial.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:18
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meatpimp posted:I think it was well framed a couple pages back -- if a professional sports figure would have done something like that, there would have been a consequence, but the consequence would have been much less severe than losing his job. Clarkson is not an office employee, he's closer to a sports figure than he is to an office employee, so the standard "he punched someone in the workplace" does not apply, since his workplace is not a 9-5 job... he's talent for a fantastically large production that generates a huge amount of money... in fact, keeping scores of people employed in office employee jobs. There were reports of others in the crew finding it uncomfortable to work with Clarkson after the incident. Say that you'd really want to keep the show going with Clarkson as one of the hosts, you are going to have to deal with a lot of people who might not be willing to go along with that, and rightfully so. What do you do? Start firing people for not being willing to work alongside a man who verbally and physically abused one of their coworkers? Do you put them to work on some other show? You'd basically end up punishing others in order to protect the one who actually did something wrong. Had it been anyone outside but Clarkson (May, Hammond and possibly Wilman) then they'd have been fired on the spot.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:18
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meatpimp posted:I get it, you'd rather see a couple dozen people lose their jobs because one guy punched another guy. Enron ring a bell? We've destroyed multiple companies, sports men's careers and others because they decided to make bad choices. This 'too big to fail' bullshit is HALF the reason we're in so many messes. Its a media studio. These people will find other jobs, and Top Gear was never going to last forever. What about Firefly? Invader Zim? Pushing Daises? Cougar Town? Glee? The Late Shows (both of them)? Mad Men? Nurse Jackie? Better Off Ted? The list of shows and series cancelled/destroyed by either time or actions of those within or without the production is nearly endless. Why is Top Gear the only show that you HAVE to keep alive for the sake of its production company? Mysteriously BBC says (for now) that they are still shooting for a 2016 Top Gear series, so how are their jobs ruined aside from one producer? Shows end. In fact, they end fairly often. We've ALL pointed this out to you multiple times, the turnover rate and boom/bust rate is immensely high in the media production industry. Why is Top Gear and Clarkson so special? For fucks sake, he has been on this show for 21+ Seasons, that is WAY WAY MORE than nearly every other show the BBC produces outside of Doctor Who! CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 23:18
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NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:Reminder that the current captain of the England football team once punched a man to the ground for not liking Phil Collins as much as him, and not once was his position called into question. Well, first of all, the puncher was the previous captain. The current one just shagged a bunch of prostitutes. Secondly, John Terry being ousted for being a racist sack of poo poo wasn't really controversial, but a bunch of people didn't like it because he was found not guilty due to it being impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he had in fact said something racist. The judge did make it clear that he personally believed John Terry do have said something racist, I believe.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:25
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CommieGIR posted:
Firstly life isn't fair and equal for all, I'm not saying thats the way it should be, but it's the reality of the world. Secondly situations like this are never completely black and white.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:30
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CommieGIR posted:Shows end. In fact, they end fairly often. We've ALL pointed this out to you multiple times, the turnover rate and boom/bust rate is immensely high in the media production industry. Why is Top Gear and Clarkson so special? For fucks sake, he has been on this show for 21+ Seasons, that is WAY WAY MORE than nearly every other show the BBC produces outside of Doctor Who! You keep bringing this terrible argument up and it makes no sense at all. We're all going to die someday too but that doesn't mean we should shrug and say "It was inevitable anyway" every time someone dies unnecessarily. And Top Gear is different from all those other shows because it's incredibly popular and profitable by objective standards, and the stars seemed perfectly willing and capable of continuing.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:31
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Rudager posted:Firstly life isn't fair and equal for all, I'm not saying thats the way it should be, but it's the reality of the world. "He was no angel" According to the investigation carried out by the BBC, this situation was fairly black and white. Symphoric posted:You keep bringing this terrible argument up and it makes no sense at all. We're all going to die someday too but that doesn't mean we should shrug and say "It was inevitable anyway" every time someone dies unnecessarily. And Top Gear is different from all those other shows because it's incredibly popular and profitable by objective standards. Yes. Losing your job due to the moronic actions of one of its lead hosts sucks. Job hunting sucks. But as has been pointed out over and over and over: Job hunting is like a second nature thing in media production. Its not death. What the gently caress dude. Symphoric posted:And Top Gear is different from all those other shows because it's incredibly popular and profitable by objective standards. Oh, so the people producing those shows, the people working on those products, their jobs are not 'special' Got it. Any other appeals to 'special cases' you'd like to make? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 23:33
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Scherloch posted:Well, first of all, the puncher was the previous captain. The current one just shagged a bunch of prostitutes. And I must know more dickheads than you since I remember lots of people being very upset at England's Brave John Terry getting the elbow, and if anyone thinks Clarkson's got previous they ought to take a look at him.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:37
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CommieGIR posted:Its not death. What the gently caress dude. quote:Oh, so the people producing those shows, the people working on those products, their jobs are not 'special' Symphoric fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 23:39
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Symphoric posted:If you can't see the difference between cancelling a show nobody watches and tanking what must be the most popular show in the world then yeah, you REALLY aren't worth arguing with. Your argument is essentially that Clarkson should've been given a free pass to be an rear end in a top hat because he brings in money. Which Ayn Rand book is your favorite?
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Mar 25, 2015 23:42
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Symphoric posted:Blah, nevermind. Some of those shows went for 7-10 seasons. Think of those jobs lost. Why would you use this sort of logic if you think it should only apply to Top Gear? You use special pleading and then accuse those who point that out of being "Not worth arguing with"? Symphoric posted:If that's how you interpret what I said then you aren't worth arguing with. You compared losing a job because the CEO/Host did something stupid to death. You tell me. The different between losing your job and death is one can be resolved/undone by job hunting, the other is unsolvable. What you are telling me is that Top Gear being cancelled is like death for you. I'm sorry, RIP. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 23:42
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NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:Reminder that the current captain of the England football team once punched a man to the ground for not liking Phil Collins as much as him, and not once was his position called into question. Also previous Director General of the BBC who unprovoked sank his teeth into a man's arm. The guy who was attacked then got put onto a project in Rwanda to get him out of the way.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:45
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NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:Reminder that the current captain of the England football team once punched a man to the ground for not liking Phil Collins as much as him, and not once was his position called into question. Um, what? I mean, I like Phil Collins, but I'm not going to fight about it.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:51
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CommieGIR posted:You compared losing a job because the CEO/Host did something stupid to death. You tell me.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:52
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Symphoric posted:Because you saying the inevitable end of the show negated any right to complain about it, that's why. I pointed out something ELSE that's inevitable and how stupid that argument was. Jesus it's not rocket science. But a show ending/being cancelled IS inevitable. The ONLY show that has not had this happen is Dr. Who, but Dr. Who also has not retained the same production crew through its entire existence. Top Gear would have eventually ended. It just ended sooner rather than later. The fact that you don't seem to grasp that no show is to big to fail is very worrying. Production teams go from being employed, to being unemployed, to being employed again rapidly. No series is a lifetime job. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 23:54
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CommieGIR posted:But a show ending/being cancelled IS inevitable. The ONLY show that has not had this happen is Dr. Who, but Dr. Who also has not retained the same production crew through its entire existence. I never said it wasn't. Jesus, are you willfully just trying to ignore what I'm saying? Just because something is inevitable doesn't mean it's not allowed to suck when it finally happens! You're complaining that people are upset Top Gear is over, and I'm saying they're upset because they feel it's happening well before its time, not because it shouldn't ever happen at all. You seem completely baffled that anyone could ever be upset by something simply because it was inevitable, regardless of the when or why.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:58
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Reddit is way more readable than page after page of angry bickering.
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Mar 26, 2015 00:01
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1500quidporsche posted:Your argument is essentially that Clarkson should've been given a free pass to be an rear end in a top hat because he brings in money. Which Ayn Rand book is your favorite? Please quote people who said he should get a free pass in the past 3 pages? I
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Mar 26, 2015 00:02
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Symphoric posted:I never said it wasn't. Jesus, are you willfully just trying to ignore what I'm saying? Just because something is inevitable doesn't mean it's not allowed to suck when it finally happens! You're complaining that people are upset Top Gear is over, and I'm saying they're upset because they feel it's happening well before its time, not because it shouldn't ever happen at all. You seem completely baffled that anyone could ever be upset by something simply because it was inevitable, regardless of the when or why. That isn't what you are saying. You are not just saying it sucks. Yes, it does suck. I've NEVER argued against that, I loved the show. You've spent an enormous amount of text and effort arguing both that "People throw punches in real life, it just happens" (which is bullshit) and trying to prop up the idea that Top Gear should be allowed to continue because its profitable. djdanno13 posted:Please quote people who said he should get a free pass in the past 3 pages? I Again, too big to fail, amirite? Being profitable does not mean you get to assault someone verbally and physically and get a pass, and guess what? Indirectly, you're right. He'll continue to be profitable, it just won't involve the BBC, who will still be very profitable without Top Gear or Jeremy Clarkson. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 00:04
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Scottw330 posted:Reddit is way more readable than page after page of angry bickering. This place is clearly Tumblr.
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Mar 26, 2015 00:06
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Well one thing is for sure, I'll miss my Star In The Reasonable Priced Car.
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Mar 26, 2015 00:08
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SquadronROE posted:Well one thing is for sure, I'll miss my Star In The Reasonable Priced Car. I'll miss the specials.
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Mar 26, 2015 00:08
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Comrade Flynn posted:This place is clearly Tumblr. Man fired for punching man, that's not a bad thing = please respect my otakukin identity gotcha
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Mar 26, 2015 00:09
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This argument is completely circular because he's being treated differently from other people who are treated differently because of who they are because of who he is. Celebrities are allowed to get away with bad behaviour because they're celebrities but Clarkson isn't being allowed that privilege because he's Clarkson, so not getting unfairly lenient treatment somehow becomes unfairly harsh. Its all very confusing and I'm going for a lie down.
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Mar 26, 2015 00:11
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CommieGIR posted:That isn't what you are saying. But yeah, Top Gear should continue, not only because it's profitable but because it's a great show that 300+ million people enjoyed and cutting it short because of one tiny incident that everyone involved with regrets and thinks is grossly overblown is pretty loving stupid. vvvv YUP! vvvv Symphoric fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 00:14
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Symphoric posted:I said ONCE in this thread, quite briefly even, that people throw punches on occasion and it's loving STUPID but maybe not the end of the world, but I guess in your world that is "an enormous amount of text and effort." So a guy that has not only verbally and physically assaulted his producer, but punched an (admittedly hateful) man three times, prior to this incident deserves to continue have. Got it, there was obviously no disciplinary issues prior to this incident.
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Mar 26, 2015 00:17
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lol @ people itt attacking the BBC for not covering up a presenter assaulting someone (see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yewtree). Meanwhile in the TV industry nobody really gives a poo poo. Clarkson will carry on writing dad-joke books and columns for The Scum, that producer will get another job at an indie or somewhere else in the BBC, and the whole plastic river of poo poo that is television will rumble on. e: I feel bad for the TG production team who had their contracts cut short this week though.
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Mar 26, 2015 00:20
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DOOMocrat posted:Every NHL and NFL player I know of that's committed assault has lost twenty games to a season, for a first offense. Donte Stallworth literally killed a guy and is still in the NFL. The politics are different when it comes to celebrities.
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Mar 26, 2015 00:26
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CommieGIR posted:I'll miss the specials. I'll miss the cheap car challenges. Who will run into James' car now?
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Mar 26, 2015 00:26
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What kind of budget does Dave (the channel) have? They could start a show there called "Final Drive". 
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Mar 26, 2015 00:29
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CommieGIR posted:These people will find other jobs, and Top Gear was never going to last forever. It wasn't and I'm sure they'll find other jobs, but who benefits from this outcome?
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Mar 26, 2015 00:31
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Sire Oblivion posted:It wasn't and I'm sure they'll find other jobs, but who benefits from this outcome? Be careful asking questions like this, someone might accuse you of reading Atlas Shrugged.
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Mar 26, 2015 00:33
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I just want James May to have more chances to be James May in front of a camera. 
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Mar 26, 2015 00:36
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Everyone who has posted more than 10 times in the last 48 hours: go jump in a river or lie down in the street somewhere. The world will be a better place without you here.
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Mar 26, 2015 00:36
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Falken posted:What kind of budget does Dave (the channel) have? gently caress all. They are very interested in making low budget co-productions though http://corporate.uktv.co.uk/commissioning/commissioning-channel-briefs/article/dave-channel-brief/
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Mar 26, 2015 00:36
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