|
The Insect Court posted:If a goy goes to a deli and orders a pastrami on rye he's basically recapitulating the Holocaust, is something we can definitely all agree on. Unless of course he's also buying a potato knish in remembrance for the victims of the Shoah, in which case he is a second Oskar Schindler. Serious question: have you ever made a post that wasn't some kind of snippy imitation of arguments occurring only in your head?
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 02:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 02:16 |
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:IIRC the variant of the gene that governs the production of alcohol dehydrogenase in Native Americans and certain Asian populations is different from the one in other ethnic groups, and people with this version have much lower alcohol tolerance. Sorry if I'm reading this wrong, but it would seem that the NIH conclusion is the opposite of what you were saying: National Institutes of Health posted:The findings suggest that it is unlikely that Native Americans carry a genetic variant that predisposes them to alcoholism. Certain variants of ADH and ADLH do have a protective affect against alcoholism in some Native American people; however, these findings do not explain the high incidence of alcoholism in the tribes that were studied.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 02:58
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:It can be difficult to understand the depth of this insult if you're based in a cultural context where we don't invest that much meaning in symbols, and our symbols are hardly ever touched. Just imagine how pissed some American conservatives get when you burn a flag, only imagine that people do that casually to represent how much they support a given athletic team. e. I'm not being snarky. You raised this example and then another poster echoed it down thread -- Is the implication that I should respect Arch Conservative's feelings wrt flag burning? Because if that's the implication then I flatly reject it. unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Mar 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 02:58
|
|
|
It also said, with no qualifications, "Native Americans are predisposed to alcoholism because of differences in the way they metabolize alcohol." They know it happens, but not why.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 02:59
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:It also said, with no qualifications, "Native Americans are predisposed to alcoholism because of differences in the way they metabolize alcohol." That's the hypothesis, not the conclusion, isn't it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 03:00
|
|
|
Even though there probably isn't any physiological reason, belief in such a physiological reason can promote alcoholism as an inevitable consequence.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 03:05
|
|
|
No, the hypothesis was that the ADH gene allele was specifically the cause of the difference. The difference itself was already established. The evidence for the ADH gene being the cause was not encouraging so they're going to have to look for another possible cause.Effectronica posted:Even though there probably isn't any physiological reason, belief in such a physiological reason can promote alcoholism as an inevitable consequence. True. The human body is kind of lovely like that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 03:07
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:Just imagine how pissed some American conservatives get when you burn a flag This kind of thing is exactly what I imagine and is why it seems so ludicrous to me. That said, burning a flag is a deliberate and intentional (and bad rear end) expression of disrespect. It's saying gently caress you to a country. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I'm still not seeing the tremendous harm. I don't see it in your Native American example either. Surely that stuff is symptomatic of oppression much more than it's causative?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 03:15
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:What are your recommendations for literature on the subject? "A Song of The Beauty of the Primitive: Shamanism in the Western Imagination," by Andrei R. R. Znamenski. The last image in the book is four round white hippies in ponytails traveling to Mongolia to spread the word there that Americans have preserved their ancient religious pathway which had obviously been suppressed, all they need to do is start blowing in this Andean tea-kettle and learn about "Core Shamanism," a product of Ohio. Realtalk tho the book is worth it for the chapters on Carlos Castenada, which are also an amazing story in cultural appropriation ending in a probable murder-suicide of his daughter-wives.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 03:19
|
|
|
dogcrash truther posted:I don't see it in your Native American example either. Surely that stuff is symptomatic of oppression much more than it's causative? I mean you generally shouldn't go out of your way to insult or hurt people, but if it's as simple as a matter of free speech, then I'm with the invaders and there's no use trying to deny that. If it's more complicated than free speech, then sports team names or Halloween costumes seem like a red herring at best, or at worst, a case of winning a few battles but losing the war.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 03:21
|
|
|
dogcrash truther posted:This kind of thing is exactly what I imagine and is why it seems so ludicrous to me. That said, burning a flag is a deliberate and intentional (and bad rear end) expression of disrespect. It's saying gently caress you to a country. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I'm still not seeing the tremendous harm. I don't see it in your Native American example either. Surely that stuff is symptomatic of oppression much more than it's causative? Yes, it is a symptom of oppression. It's a sign that the oppression runs so deeply that we can burn your flags and tell you to calm down and stop being so offended if you protest. unlimited shrimp posted:So why is it okay to scoff at people who get pissed at flag burning? Or are you saying that it isn't? You should at least be aware that it's offensive. That's the point of burning a flag - being offensive. But what if you like just casually used an American flag to wipe your baby's rear end and were totally confused when someone gets mad about it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 03:40
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:You should at least be aware that it's offensive. That's the point of burning a flag - being offensive. But what if you like just casually used an American flag to wipe your baby's rear end and were totally confused when someone gets mad about it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 03:47
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:No, the hypothesis was that the ADH gene allele was specifically the cause of the difference. The difference itself was already established. The evidence for the ADH gene being the cause was not encouraging so they're going to have to look for another possible cause. I think it would be for the best if I don't comment any further on the article based only on the contents of the abstract. I don't think it was written very clearly, and this ambiguity leaves room for error. Quite possibly, the error is mine. unlimited shrimp posted:Right. Isn't the real issue that (western plains) Native American identity has been so weakened that they cannot assert their own identity in the face of this appropriation even amongst their own people? In which case the harmfulness of the appropriation of the head dress by non-Natives is indicative of a much larger problem that will not necessarily be rectified by making appropriation of the head dress taboo. There's obviously a lot of context involved. I think that what is being described here as cultural appropriation can absolutely be offensive, disrespectful and in poor taste, but does not in and of itself cause social justice problems, which result from other factors. In many cases, it would still be offensive and in poor taste regardless of the cultural background of the person who did it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 03:53
|
|
|
David Corbett posted:There's obviously a lot of context involved. I think that what is being described here as cultural appropriation can absolutely be offensive, disrespectful and in poor taste, but does not in and of itself cause social justice problems, which result from other factors. In many cases, it would still be offensive and in poor taste regardless of the cultural background of the person who did it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 03:56
|
|
|
unlimited shrimp posted:Agreedo, but poor taste without consequences isn't something worth getting upset about. Not beyond socially, no. Popular Thug Drink posted:You should at least be aware that it's offensive. That's the point of burning a flag - being offensive. But what if you like just casually used an American flag to wipe your baby's rear end and were totally confused when someone gets mad about it? The offense here isn't that you're using an American flag, it's that you're wiping someone's rear end with it. I don't think anyone would be offended if someone made a flag patterned garment or put an American flag as a patch on a jacket or as a bumper sticker because they thought the design looked cool. That sort of thing happens all the time, and it would be way out of line to suggest that someone can't use that symbol for general purposes because they aren't Real Americans. I should admit that, as a Canadian, this does come up from time to time. We're known for travelling Europe with some sort of signifier of our Canadian identity. This is because many of us believe that Canadians have a better name abroad than Americans, which we would likely otherwise be mistaken for. It is very annoying when an American claims to be a Canadian abroad, but that's because there's an active intent to deceive and it might cause us harm by degrading our reputation. If an American wanted to fly the Maple Leaf somewhere out in Kansas, though - well, more power to him, I guess? David Corbett fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Mar 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 04:05
|
|
David Corbett posted:Not beyond socially, no. On the other hand, embroidering the butt of your pants with a big ol' American flag, say...
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 04:07
|
|
|
Effectronica posted:On the other hand, embroidering the butt of your pants with a big ol' American flag, say...
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 04:13
|
|
unlimited shrimp posted:Would still be acceptable? Maybe distasteful in the sense that you shouldn't deliberately piss people off just to be a dick, but it seems like it's ultimately a question of cultural values. If there were ever some zero-sum game between the right to desecrate the flag and the obligation to respect conservative demands that the flag be upheld as sacred, then I would heat my home with every flag I could get my hands on. I could say it's distasteful or mean or ignorant, but I would still uphold the right to do it sooner than I'd support a measure to ban it. Jesus dude, that was in response to a post about wearing the flag. It's an example of how appropriation can work by people making unintentional mistakes out of ignorance that end up potentially offensive. You're really tetchy.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 04:15
|
|
|
 I'm here in good faith. Cultural appropriation is something I've been trying to work through for a little while. Sorry if I seem ornery.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 04:21
|
|
|
unlimited shrimp posted:I'd say I'm ignorant of their grievances, but that doesn't legitimize their anger. It's their anger. You don't get to be the arbiter for whether other folk's feelings are legitimate.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 05:08
|
|
|
unlimited shrimp posted:
Sometimes people explore aspects of cultures they were not raised in, or are not familiar with. They may use this knowledge for personal growth or to create something new and cool. This is good! Sometimes people adopt certain aspects of a foreign culture in an ignorant or tasteless way, or one which trivializes otherwise serious aspects of that culture. This is lame, but whatever. Sometimes people adopt certain aspects of a foreign culture in a way which is flat out offensive, such as perpetuating racial stereotypes or mocking core aspects of a culture. This is pretty bad! The final case can range from just tasteless and rude to a systemic dismantling of a marginalized culture. If the false version of a culture becomes the popularly known or official version, it can be called appropriation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 05:15
|
|
|
He absolutely can be the arbiter of whether or not it's worth giving a poo poo about. Someone's seething rage about their favorite game getting being infested with "casuals" can be quite genuine, it doesn't mean I have to treat it as legitimate or worthy of respect.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 05:17
|
|
themrguy posted:He absolutely can be the arbiter of whether or not it's worth giving a poo poo about. Someone's seething rage about their favorite game getting being infested with "casuals" can be quite genuine, it doesn't mean I have to treat it as legitimate or worthy of respect. No, I don't think he can be "the" arbiter.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 05:22
|
|
|
unlimited shrimp posted:Agreedo, but poor taste without consequences isn't something worth getting upset about. Aau Contraire I'd say that getting upset is the entire raison d'être for caring about what other people do/say/wear/listen to, especially on the internet. Outrage Culture is real. 7c Nickel posted:It's their anger. You don't get to be the arbiter for whether other folk's feelings are legitimate. Exactly. The most important thing is that they are angry, and I need to join them in their anger. ate shit on live tv fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Mar 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 05:25
|
|
Powercrazy posted:Aau Contraire I'd say that getting upset is the entire raison d'être for caring about what other people do/say/wear/listen to, especially on the internet. Outrage Culture is real. Oh?
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 05:28
|
|
|
Effectronica posted:No, I don't think he can be "the" arbiter. Obviously in the sense of whether or not he has to care about it, c'mon. I thought that was obvious from context.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 05:38
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7tupJRSi7M Why do you think she was putting on that obvious and rehearsed act? Why do you think the two dudes were getting so upset? Do you think they really feel that strongly about Israel?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 05:38
|
|
Powercrazy posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7tupJRSi7M Oh?
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 05:45
|
|
|
7c Nickel posted:It's their anger. You don't get to be the arbiter for whether other folk's feelings are legitimate. People are absolutely entitled to their feelings. That doesn't mean their feelings are something that should de facto dictate my feelings or actions. I have to weigh my ideals against their own.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 05:51
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:
I still fail to see how cultural appropriation alone evokes this. A football team name does not alone dismantle a marginalised culture. Renaming that team doesn't preserve it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 05:59
|
|
|
Group A plays some kind of traditional drums , Group B (the dominant culture) adopts those drums to their own musical idioms which then go back to Group A and impoverishes the original musical culture of group A. Is this necessarily a bad thing? Not really because its tricky to make value judgement about music etc etc.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 06:12
|
|
|
unlimited shrimp posted:I still fail to see how cultural appropriation alone evokes this. A football team name does not alone dismantle a marginalised culture. Renaming that team doesn't preserve it. It's a method by which marginalization occurs. Nobody has claimed that appropriation is the sole method by which marginalization is perpetuated. You're overthinking this and confusing yourself. If a team was called the Washington Criminal Thugs then no, it is not the sole source or even sole mechanism which perpetuates the criminal black stereotype, but it sure isn't helping anyone!
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 06:17
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:It's a method by which marginalization occurs. Nobody has claimed that appropriation is the sole method by which marginalization is perpetuated. You're overthinking this and confusing yourself. You can't seem to keep your arguments straight. Are you arguing that ethnic slurs like "redskin" and anti-black stereotypes are sacral cultural expressions of (respectively) native American and African-American culture?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 06:40
|
|
|
If a white guy owns a taco truck, is that appropriation?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 08:45
|
|
|
Still looking for clarification on whether or not blackface is cultural appropriation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 09:02
|
|
|
I feel like the issue is when the original or authentic version of some culture is destroyed while bits of it are simultaneously commodified. The "original" Native American culture no longer exists, so a headdress costume is like dancing on the grave of destroyed culture. It's just common decency to have some respect for other people. I guess that makes me an SJW Nazi?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 09:21
|
|
|
unlimited shrimp posted:People are absolutely entitled to their feelings. That doesn't mean their feelings are something that should de facto dictate my feelings or actions. I have to weigh my ideals against their own. The common term for people with no regard for others is 'jackass', so surely you understand why nobody cares when you scream about reverse racism or being oppressed yourself, right? Like if hurt feelings is not a consideration that should be made, how could you argue against a law renaming the Redskins because of your own hurt feelings?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 09:24
|
|
|
"It's my god given right to be a jackass to everyone around me, stupid liberal faggots  ""Why is everyone being mean to me??? I'm only exercising my rights  "
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 09:27
|
|
|
Typical Pubbie posted:Still looking for clarification on whether or not blackface is cultural appropriation. Only when done by non whites
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 09:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 02:16 |
|
|
katlington posted:Only when done by non whites The tradition of blackface includes black performers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 10:17
|
|