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Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

markgreyam posted:

People pay no attention to anything and then bitch and moan like all of this was completely hidden from them. Unfortunately the TV news is too busy reporting on vital stories like house fires and car accidents and their only other source of news which is what celebrities are currently doing doesn't cover actual important poo poo. Also something something reality TV I'm too tired.

Disclosure: I've had a massive headache all day and I'm just whining about this poo poo because you just know it's going to cause an outcry AFTER it all goes through because no one pays attention.

Well yeah, my only point was that I'm looking forward to the moaning after the fact purely because it is such a shift from the norm that your salt of the earth types will be completely caught off guard by it.

It will be delicious.

Disclosure: I rarely watch TV or movies except on FTA, have never used a torrent system and wouldn't even know where to begin.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 03:43

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# ? May 27, 2024 20:04

Thinking: Jan 22, 2009

Les Affaires posted:

Also w/r/t asylum seeker policy v marriage equality policy, we could have a long boring rear end talk about Same vs Other but we don't really need to.

It's as silly a comparison as marriage equality and internet firewalls, though. The idea that Australians need to have bad poo poo done to them so they wake up and change their attitudes falls apart when you realise they just have a tantrum and keep on voting against their interests anyway.

e; but if you're arguing it'll be good simply as an act of schadenfreude then I agree completely

# ? Mar 26, 2015 03:44

CrazyTolradi: Oct 2, 2011; It feels so good to be so bad.....at posting.

norp posted:

Or even just iMessage, it encrypts the session and doesn't run through AU servers.

Does this hold true for things like Google Hangouts and Steam chat? It's just interesting to see the amount of poo poo this legislation will miss.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 03:46

MysticalMachineGun: Apr 5, 2005

Nice one GetUp

# ? Mar 26, 2015 03:48

CrazyTolradi: Oct 2, 2011; It feels so good to be so bad.....at posting.

In other news, guess who got a juicy promotion because of his wonderful work in Operation Sovereign Borders?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-26/abbott-announces-new-chiefs-of-army-and-air-force/6349336

# ? Mar 26, 2015 03:48

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Was becoming a corporate shill GetUp's intention all along?

# ? Mar 26, 2015 03:49

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

CrazyTolradi posted:

Does this hold true for things like Google Hangouts and Steam chat? It's just interesting to see the amount of poo poo this legislation will miss.

It'll probably miss everything outside of typing "torrent chappie please" into google.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 03:49

Mad Katter: Aug 23, 2010; STOP THE BATS

markgreyam posted:

People pay no attention to anything and then bitch and moan like all of this was completely hidden from them. Unfortunately the TV news is too busy reporting on vital stories like house fires and car accidents and their only other source of news which is what celebrities are currently doing doesn't cover actual important poo poo. Also something something reality TV I'm too tired.

Disclosure: I've had a massive headache all day and I'm just whining about this poo poo because you just know it's going to cause an outcry AFTER it all goes through because no one pays attention.

It's almost as if the media is quite deliberately keeping this information from them for some reason.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 03:51

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

CrazyTolradi posted:

In other news, guess who got a juicy promotion because of his wonderful work in Operation Sovereign Borders?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-26/abbott-announces-new-chiefs-of-army-and-air-force/6349336

Mr Abbott also recognised the contribution of David Morrison, who will leave the Defence Force after a 36-year career.

"No-one who saw his famous talk to the Defence Forces, 'the standard you walk past is the standard you accept' will ever doubt his commitment to making our Army a modern as well as effective fighting force."

# ? Mar 26, 2015 03:53

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

cpaf posted:

It's as silly a comparison as marriage equality and internet firewalls, though. The idea that Australians need to have bad poo poo done to them so they wake up and change their attitudes falls apart when you realise they just have a tantrum and keep on voting against their interests anyway.

e; but if you're arguing it'll be good simply as an act of schadenfreude then I agree completely

You know very well it's the latter. It might prompt people to talk about copyright cartels but what's more likely is a conversation about wage levels because your average family will kick up a stink about not being able to afford premium Foxtel.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 03:59

Fruity Gordo: Aug 5, 2013; Neurotic, Impotent Rage!

Splode posted:

Go look up "Steel" fruity you doofus.

Also lol @ fair evasion chat.

I can tell you guys don't live in Sydney. Our ticket inspectors are awful.

Go look up biochar m8

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:02

Avshalom: Feb 14, 2012; by Lowtax

endman

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:03

PaletteSwappedNinja: Jun 3, 2008; One Nation, Under God.

Les Affaires posted:

Well yeah, my only point was that I'm looking forward to the moaning after the fact purely because it is such a shift from the norm that your salt of the earth types will be completely caught off guard by it.

It will be delicious.

Disclosure: I rarely watch TV or movies except on FTA, have never used a torrent system and wouldn't even know where to begin.

I set up/fix home media setups for "salt of the earth types" 2-3 times a week and they are not ignorant about the government/ISPs moving to stamp out torrenting but they aren't incensed by it and they aren't making any attempts to stop it or even get around it; some of them complain about it but they're still resigned to the fact that it's gonna happen and they don't feel like they can or should fight against it (or they simply expect other people to do it for them).

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:05

Stoca Zola: Jun 28, 2008

Splode posted:

Go look up "Steel" fruity you doofus.

We did electric arc furnace steel making in last month's thread I think, no coking coal required.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:09

Splode: Jun 18, 2013; put some clothes on you little freak

Stoca Zola posted:

We did electric arc furnace steel making in last month's thread I think, no coking coal required.

A little bit of googling shows that this uses scrap steel, so it can't really entirely eliminate the need for coking coal. Steel has carbon in it, and that's unavoidable, but this

Fruity Gordo posted:

Go look up biochar m8

This is cool as poo poo. The industry partnership with Bluescope is important too, those guys are surprisingly keen on being as environmentally friendly as possible because it ends up saving them money (iron ore being blown into the local river is bad for the river and also bad for yield rates) and also getting a lot of heat off their backs.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:25

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Avshalom posted:

endman

end..who?

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:28

Birb Katter: Sep 18, 2010; BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

QUACKTASTIC posted:

end..who?

You'll find that this is Avshalom admitting that the gynocracy is real and it wants all men to be killed.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:35

Fruity Gordo: Aug 5, 2013; Neurotic, Impotent Rage!

Splode posted:

A little bit of googling shows that this uses scrap steel, so it can't really entirely eliminate the need for coking coal. Steel has carbon in it, and that's unavoidable, but this

This is cool as poo poo. The industry partnership with Bluescope is important too, those guys are surprisingly keen on being as environmentally friendly as possible because it ends up saving them money (iron ore being blown into the local river is bad for the river and also bad for yield rates) and also getting a lot of heat off their backs.

Yup, this is the kind of poo poo I wanted to do when I did chemistry at uni, before I spent days in labs and realised I loving hated being in labs

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:41

Murodese: Mar 6, 2007; Think you've got what it takes?
We're looking for fine Men & Women to help Protect the Australian Way of Life.

Become part of the Legend. Defence Jobs.

CrazyTolradi posted:

Does this hold true for things like Google Hangouts and Steam chat? It's just interesting to see the amount of poo poo this legislation will miss.

It applies to any service that has an internationally-based relay server. The metadata notes that you made a connection at x time from y IP and z location to their servers, but without DPI they can't tell who you're talking to - just that you're communicating with Facebook or whatever. Keep in mind that a lot of the larger chat providers (gchat/hangouts, facebook, apple/imessage, etc) all log conversations internally, so they can still be subpoenad. All of that data sits outside the government's retention scheme and has to be accessed with a warrant, though.

Stuff that falls under the scheme:

- Emailing someone using an Australian mail server (ie. an ISP server is included, but Gmail's servers are not)
- Accessing a website, regardless of the server's location (the requests are still going through your ISP)

That's kinda it. They're supposedly not logging URLs but server IPs instead to get around "you're storing my porn history", which means that if you access an unrelated site on the same shared hosting as a Terrorism or CP site you could be wrongly implicated. This has happened before, such as when ASIC blocked an IP range on all ISPs and it took out a few hundred thousand unrelated websites because they were on shared hosting.

Virtually all communications made on the internet today are through relay servers (due to NAT on home networks and some ISPs), so all they get from them is "you accessed skype at this time from this IP", but nothing else. I don't think it's been asked if communications services (ie. an Australian based XMPP server) have to store details of communications between users, but I don't think they do - if only because every random dude that runs an IRC server would have to retain metadata for 2 years and there's no way the government can integrate that poo poo into their own systems.

Basically, they get nothing of use from internet communications except that IP address x was person y at a given time. What's important to them is more on the mobile side of things, such as your real-time location: if you're carrying a phone, agencies can now track your location in real-time (and access historical data for 2 years).

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:42

Mr Chips: Jun 27, 2007; Whose arse do I have to blow smoke up to get rid of this baby?

Murodese posted:

The metadata notes that you made a connection at x time from y IP and z location to their servers

Is this actually mentioned explicitly anywhere, eg any advice in how the legislation is to be interpreted or what data retention plan submissions should look like? The legislation itself is horribly vague, and could mean just about anything (I've already had a whinge about this)

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:51

Thinking: Jan 22, 2009

I've been using charcoal to make steel in dwarf fortress for a long time so maybe they need to ask me some questions. I can't guarantee they won't be brutally torn apart by a giant eagle while they descend the open air staircase though.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:52

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Well, this happened.

quote:

Chief Justice Tim Carmody had privately referred to his judicial colleagues as "snakes" and "scum" while publicly calling for judges to "maintain civility and courtesy", a retiring Supreme Court Justice has said as the discontent between the judiciary and their leader
once again bubbles to the surface.

In his extraordinary speech on Thursday morning, Justice Alan Wilson said he had "agonised" over the decision, but ultimately was "driven to say something" about Justice Carmody's leadership at his valedictory address, adding he did so without "the foreknowledge or approval of any of the judges".

He said the "current experiment, involving a Chief Justice who frankly admits he lacks ["respect for their legal ability", and has significantly failed to manifest those skills, is not working - and there is no reason to think that it ever will".

"You do not know of a number of things which stand behind that prediction," he said.

"The Chief Justice has made many public pronouncements and given many interviews about his appointment and his actions. The judges have said nothing.

"It is the tension between what the Chief Justice has said and the things he has done, known only [to] the judges, which to my perception at least partially explains a serious loss of morale in the court.

"I hear judges at all levels of seniority, including quite young ones, speaking seriously of resignation. The problem is bad and, in my view, getting worse.

"That is why I am driven to say something."

Justice Wilson said Justice Carmody had attempted to speak privately with the judge rostered on to the Court of Disputed Returns during the period following the election, when the Ferny Grove result might have been referred to the court.

The Supreme Court annually appoints judges to the court "in strict order of seniority", Justice Wilson said, to "ensure there can never be any suggestion of political influence or motive in the appointment".

Justice Wilson said Justice Carmody had made an attempt to "contest the automatic operation of that protocol", and later made attempts to "speak privately with the next nominated judge to that position about what was described in a memorandum as 'unresolved concerns'", which were resisted by the judge.

Justice Wilson also attacked the Chief Justice for removing himself from all trial division sittings, opting out of "judge-work", in favour of a public-relations role for the court, which he said placed a "significant extra burden" on the other judges.

"Finally, it will be recalled that the Chief Justice, in his public remarks last Christmas, urged the judges to maintain civility and courtesy, but he has on different occasions, referred to us collectively as 'snakes' and 'scum'. Both the remarks, and the this kind of hypocrisy, have a devastating effect on morale," he said.

"These things...have distracted the judges from their work, which is busy and constant. To see press interviews being given telling only one side of the story, when all other members of the judiciary are working hard while maintaining a proper and dignified silence, is having a very dispiriting effect upon them."

Justice Carmody was not in attendance because he is attending a conference in Papua New Guinea.

It follows the former head of the Bar Association, Peter Davis, unleashing on former Attorney-General Jarrod Bleijie, calling him "inexperienced and under-educated and, in my view, incompetent", in a speech on Wednesday night.

The legacy of Campbell Newman.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:55

Murodese: Mar 6, 2007; Think you've got what it takes?
We're looking for fine Men & Women to help Protect the Australian Way of Life.

Become part of the Legend. Defence Jobs.

Mr Chips posted:

Is this actually mentioned explicitly anywhere, eg any advice in how the legislation is to be interpreted or what data retention plan submissions should look like? The legislation itself is horribly vague, and could mean just about anything (I've already had a whinge about this)

Yeah, they went into a bit more detail in the final legislation: http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bills/r5375_first-reps/toc_pdf/14242b01.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf

In 187A.

quote:

The kinds of information prescribed for the purposes of
23 paragraph (1)(a) must relate to one or more of the following
24 matters:
25 (a) characteristics of any of the following:
26 (i) the subscriber of a relevant service;
27 (ii) an account relating to a relevant service;
28 (iii) a telecommunications device relating to a relevant
29 service;
1 (iv) another relevant service relating to a relevant service;
2 (b) the source of a communication;
3 (c) the destination of a communication;
4 (d) the date, time and duration of a communication, or of its
5 connection to a relevant service;
6 (e) the type of a communication, or a type of relevant service
7 used in connection with a communication;
8 (f) the location of equipment, or a line, used in connection with a
9 communication.

The explanatory memo gives a bit more info on each of these, INCLUDING THIS GEM:

quote:

Under paragraph 187A(4)(b), the retention obligation is explicitly expressed to
exclude the retention of destination web address identifiers, such as destination internet
Protocol (IP) addresses or uniform resource locators (URLs).

So uh, if they're excluding the URL and IP address of destinations, I'm not sure what the gently caress they think they're using the describe the destination.

what a clusterfuck

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:58

norp: Jan 20, 2004; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil

QUACKTASTIC posted:

It'll probably miss everything outside of typing "torrent chappie please" into google.

Did you notice the https:// thing in your browser bar for google.com?

Unless they pass a law asking google to store all search results as part of the law then once again - subpoena required.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 04:59

Mr Chips: Jun 27, 2007; Whose arse do I have to blow smoke up to get rid of this baby?

Murodese posted:

So uh, if they're excluding the URL and IP address of destinations, I'm not sure what the gently caress they think they're using the describe the destination.

what a clusterfuck

I'm tempted to interpret the requirements as "$customer had an ADSL service at $location connecting them to the local DSLAM for these dates"

# ? Mar 26, 2015 05:01

The Before Times: Mar 8, 2014; Once upon a time, I would have thrown you halfway to the moon for a crack like that.

Murodese posted:

Yeah, they went into a bit more detail in the final legislation: http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bills/r5375_first-reps/toc_pdf/14242b01.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf

In 187A.

The explanatory memo gives a bit more info on each of these, INCLUDING THIS GEM:

So uh, if they're excluding the URL and IP address of destinations, I'm not sure what the gently caress they think they're using the describe the destination.

what a clusterfuck

so uh

what is the destination?

# ? Mar 26, 2015 05:02

Murodese: Mar 6, 2007; Think you've got what it takes?
We're looking for fine Men & Women to help Protect the Australian Way of Life.

Become part of the Legend. Defence Jobs.

Mr Chips posted:

I'm tempted to interpret the requirements as "$customer had an ADSL service at $location connecting them to the local DSLAM for these dates"

They're keeping that too, but that's dealt with in the section before that. This is specifically for source/destination of a communication.

e; ^^ maybe just the name of a person or (more realistically) the name of a service, ie. Facebook? I dunno what the gently caress.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 05:03

Fruity Gordo: Aug 5, 2013; Neurotic, Impotent Rage!

Lid posted:

Well, this happened.

The legacy of Campbell Newman.

An OMGUS from the chief justice

##vote tim carmody

# ? Mar 26, 2015 05:11

The Before Times: Mar 8, 2014; Once upon a time, I would have thrown you halfway to the moon for a crack like that.

Murodese posted:

They're keeping that too, but that's dealt with in the section before that. This is specifically for source/destination of a communication.

e; ^^ maybe just the name of a person or (more realistically) the name of a service, ie. Facebook? I dunno what the gently caress.

Seems weird though

"x account accessed...the internet...at this time?"

# ? Mar 26, 2015 05:14

Fruity Gordo: Aug 5, 2013; Neurotic, Impotent Rage!

I guess they want location data, but hosed if I know if that can be collected when location services are turned off

# ? Mar 26, 2015 05:21

CrazyTolradi: Oct 2, 2011; It feels so good to be so bad.....at posting.

Fruity Gordo posted:

I guess they want location data, but hosed if I know if that can be collected when location services are turned off

If you turn off location data, they can still trace what cell tower you're connected to. It doesn't completely disable them tracking your movements, it just makes it a lot more vague so they can only tell "X person was in this cell tower area at this time.".

# ? Mar 26, 2015 05:22

Birb Katter: Sep 18, 2010; BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

CrazyTolradi posted:

If you turn off location data, they can still trace what cell tower you're connected to. It doesn't completely disable them tracking your movements, it just makes it a lot more vague so they can only tell "X person was in this cell tower area at this time.".

Mobile phone companies know where you are to within 3 metres based on tower info. It's super creepy how much they know about where you are.

ninja edit: If you use provider information services they even use this to spam you advertising based on your current location.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 05:23

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

They probably just need the timestamp to cross reference with their mates at the NSA

# ? Mar 26, 2015 05:36

Smegmatron: Apr 23, 2003; I hate to advocate emptyquoting or shitposting to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

Jumpingmanjim posted:

If you have an edu.au email you can sign up for this and get 100$ of credit for a VPS which you can run a VPN on.

https://education.github.com/pack

Or you can just buy a prepaid Visa card anywhere and use it to sign up for the AWS free tier. Then you can spend the money on the card on whatever you like.

Also carrying a smart phone comes with the burden of carrying a camera, microphone, data repository and GPS unit with you at all times. If you aren't ok with the idea of nation states surreptitiously accessing all of that, don't carry one because they're going to whether it's legal or not.

This goes double if you have an android phone because android lol.

Smegmatron fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Mar 26, 2015

# ? Mar 26, 2015 05:49

Fruity Gordo: Aug 5, 2013; Neurotic, Impotent Rage!

Birb Katter posted:

Mobile phone companies know where you are to within 3 metres based on tower info. It's super creepy how much they know about where you are.

ninja edit: If you use provider information services they even use this to spam you advertising based on your current location.

They will know exactly which of my posts were made while I was on the terlet

This is terrible bc I do my best terrorism planning while pooping

# ? Mar 26, 2015 06:00

Birb Katter: Sep 18, 2010; BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

Fruity Gordo posted:

They will know exactly which of my posts were made while I was on the terlet

This is terrible bc I do my best terrorism planning while pooping

Just based on the fact you're posting in Auspol they know you're already poo poo posting.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 06:02

Murodese: Mar 6, 2007; Think you've got what it takes?
We're looking for fine Men & Women to help Protect the Australian Way of Life.

Become part of the Legend. Defence Jobs.

Fruity Gordo posted:

I guess they want location data, but hosed if I know if that can be collected when location services are turned off

Nah, nothing to do with location services. As Birb said, every time you hit a new cell tower you start a new data session and your location can be tracked with ease. The only way to disable this is to put your phone on airplane mode.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 06:09

Fruity Gordo: Aug 5, 2013; Neurotic, Impotent Rage!

I thought that was just for calls and texts, not 3G, because I do not know how technology works and it frightens me. The telly taught me that calls can be TRIANGULATED via towres, but not my postings

# ? Mar 26, 2015 06:15

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Everybody ITT going to jail

# ? Mar 26, 2015 06:25

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# ? May 27, 2024 20:04

Thinking: Jan 22, 2009

Fruity Gordo posted:

They will know exactly which of my posts were made while I was on the terlet

No but they'll know that all of them belong there ahahgh

# ? Mar 26, 2015 06:28

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