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I'm just saying that Chicago is a hub for every form of transportation, and McCormick place has more square footage than any other convention center in the country while being spitting distance from my apartment.
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Mar 26, 2015 18:25
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So Pence went ahead and signed the law, and already national businesses are leaving the state and warning others to do the same.
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Mar 26, 2015 19:21
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Evil Mastermind posted:So Pence went ahead and signed the law, and already national businesses are leaving the state and warning others to do the same. My brother is a VP at Salesforce over in Indy. I'll grill him about this when I see him this weekend. Wonder if he'll have to relocate... Hope not. Folks are screaming about how Illinois has the same law, while overlooking how it also has laws protecting LGBT folks from discrimination. Laws Indiana happens to lack.
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Mar 26, 2015 19:33
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I kinda want to open a business in Indiana now, specifically for the purpose of putting out a big sign that says in big block letters "Protestants not admitted". Then explain that it's against my deeply held religious beliefs to consort with heretics against the Holy See.
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Mar 26, 2015 19:53
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PresidentBeard posted:I kinda want to open a business in Indiana now, specifically for the purpose of putting out a big sign that says in big block letters "Protestants not admitted". Then explain that it's against my deeply held religious beliefs to consort with heretics against the Holy See. I think religion is a protected class in Indiana
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Mar 26, 2015 19:57
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I wonder how long a "Muslims only," no Christians allowed business would survive, before someone burned it down.
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Mar 26, 2015 20:03
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Leperflesh posted:I wonder how long a "Muslims only," no Christians allowed business would survive, before someone burned it down. e: This is for employment anyway. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/indiana-employment-discrimination-31981.html dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 20:06
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So if a LGBT person were to be a part of their religion that supported them or made their lifestyle a religious rite would they be protected then? If not wouldn't it be possible to exclude WASPs by changing it from "members of the Protestant religion" who are banned to "those living lives of heresy". Like I'm not dscriminating against their religion, just the actions in public that I disagree with, that just so happen to be all the ones relating to their religion.
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Mar 26, 2015 20:49
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PresidentBeard posted:So if a LGBT person were to be a part of their religion that supported them or made their lifestyle a religious rite would they be protected then? If not wouldn't it be possible to exclude WASPs by changing it from "members of the Protestant religion" who are banned to "those living lives of heresy". Like I'm not dscriminating against their religion, just the actions in public that I disagree with, that just so happen to be all the one relating to their religion.
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Mar 27, 2015 02:21
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You can always discriminate against heterosexuals, which I suggest on general principle.
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Mar 27, 2015 04:16
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8one6 posted:Ha! I'd loving love to see them try to move to the KC metro area (let alone Lee's Summit.) I'd say we have the con space, but everything is so spread out around here it would suck to have try to hold a con that big here. We might have more hotel rooms than Indy has right now, but that's only if you count the entire metro area, parking sucks on the best of days, and public transit in KC is a loving joke. Planet Comicon has been doing pretty good at Bartle Hall. Not much game related stuff there, I think there may be room for some kind of gaming con.
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Mar 27, 2015 04:25
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Maxwell Lord posted:Planet Comicon has been doing pretty good at Bartle Hall. Not much game related stuff there, I think there may be room for some kind of gaming con. Most people only do one day of Planet Comicon though. My argument isn't the convention space because Bartle Hall is huge and they could always expand to the sprint center, but the hotel/parking/public transit situation in downtown KC sucks. Trying to get 60k people hotel rooms for 4 nights each would be a nightmare if you wanted to limit it to just downtown. I live in Lee's Summit. I'd loving love to have Gen Con a half an hour away, but in my opinion it would be a nightmare for the guests, at least the first couple of years.
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Mar 27, 2015 04:42
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Well, I was arguing the con itself would do well- you COULD hold an event like GenCon here and probably do okay, but you're right that it'd be a zoo. Though maybe if that streetcar ever gets finished...
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Mar 27, 2015 04:54
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So apparently GMS is blocked by @Gen_Con, and he's revving up his
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Mar 27, 2015 09:15
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Plague of Hats posted:So apparently GMS is blocked by @Gen_Con, and he's revving up his AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Mar 27, 2015 09:18
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Plague of Hats posted:So apparently GMS is blocked by @Gen_Con, and he's revving up his
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Mar 27, 2015 13:03
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As far as GMS goes, his tweets about GenCon were actually semi reasonable.
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Mar 27, 2015 13:04
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Plague of Hats posted:So apparently GMS is blocked by @Gen_Con GenCon only wants to talk to developers who make games. Seems fair to me.
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Mar 27, 2015 13:27
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Slimnoid posted:GenCon only wants to talk to developers who make games. Seems fair to me. Come now, Underworld is only like fifteen years old!
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Mar 27, 2015 14:10
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jivjov posted:As far as GMS goes, his tweets about GenCon were actually semi reasonable. Mostly, yeah, but then they said "talking about what we're doing" instead of, I don't know, teleporting away the moment freedom died, so now they're "walking back" because I guess not finding a solution (or, at least, not announcing) immediately makes you a freedom punk. That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Mar 27, 2015 |
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Mar 27, 2015 14:11
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Hey! He was lead author on a number of D20 products in the past decade. And he shared his wisdom with us here! Edit: Serious question, have generic D20 supplements finally bit the dirt? People are still making stuff for Pathfinder and CoC, sure, but looking over release dates I'm surprised at how many people were still cranking them out even after 4e was released. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Mar 27, 2015 |
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Mar 27, 2015 14:16
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Yeah no reasonable person expects GenCon to suddenly pull out of Indiana and relocate right now. I mean there's a process to these things. I doubt they'll even break contract, and come 2021 this law will be gone and they'll have no reason to stick around unless the governor is still in office and they want to protest his decision. I think this is more important as a symbolic gesture, of how GenCon actually does want to promote progress and inclusiveness, which are key factors in whether or not I will give money to things. Oh and GMS is a huge whiny manchild who namesearches himself and picks fights with Internet nobodies when he should be finishing his stupid RPG.
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Mar 27, 2015 14:18
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Well, GMS has no problem just throwing invested money away, so he probably doesn't see why anyone else should either.
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Mar 27, 2015 14:22
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You know that Monte Cook Games interview? It's on tonight. In just under 100 minutes. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/nativetrailblazers
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Mar 27, 2015 22:22
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Serf posted:Yeah no reasonable person expects GenCon to suddenly pull out of Indiana and relocate right now. I mean there's a process to these things. I doubt they'll even break contract, and come 2021 this law will be gone and they'll have no reason to stick around unless the governor is still in office and they want to protest his decision. I think this is more important as a symbolic gesture, of how GenCon actually does want to promote progress and inclusiveness, which are key factors in whether or not I will give money to things. >reasonable >gamer No, don't you see, we're enabling bigotry by not immediately canceling our plans. A con that costs millions of dollars to organize and years of planning in advance should run itself into the ground because of a divisive piece of poo poo law passed by politicians who won't care if Gen Con does well or not. Punish businesses that have nothing to do with the law and oppose it anyway.
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Mar 27, 2015 23:37
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It just started. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/nativetrailblazers/2015/03/27/native-american-culture-in-gaming--a-conversation-with-monte-cook-games
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Mar 28, 2015 00:02
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Also so let's say everyone pulls out. Ok so what happens? Gencon goes bankrupt and the right-wing bigots who support this law says "See what happens to liberal idiots who don't support Real America? They go bankrupt." Great.
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Mar 28, 2015 00:05
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I honestly haven't seen anyone outside GMS advocating an immediate boycot/pullout.
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Mar 28, 2015 00:43
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Evil Mastermind posted:I honestly haven't seen anyone outside GMS advocating an immediate boycot/pullout. GMS is just looking for another distraction to conveniently use as an excuse to not finish Far West. He was too busy fighting injustice, you guys, you wouldn't understand because you're not perpetually right and just like he is.
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Mar 28, 2015 01:23
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I knew this would get all hosed up the moment I read the letter and immediately the qualifier that Gencon had no plants to break its contract. This is essentially saying, "We'd be so made we'd have no choice but to give your state about a quarter billion dollars, but no more!" It doesn't matter how practical breaking the contract is. This was its moral force--kind of weak. Not their fault, but still. It was a mistake for the first letter not to directly address this reality, even if obliquely, since this was a public communication. It gave a number of people hope that Gencon would be able to make a more substantial gesture. But beyond this, the company did the best it could. It's in a bad position. From what I've been told, it's full of good people. On the other hand, it doesn't really matter if they're good folks. Gencon is a business. It's not a charity. If you have a sentimental relationship with it, that's not going both ways. Gencon has a *business* relationship with you, and the medium of conversation is economic in the form of your attendance (or not) or how you impact their marketing/promo (or not). I've been talking and listening to folks in the design community directly affected by this, and the consensus seems to be that going this year is fine. Too much is already locked in for all concerned, including attendees and exhibitors. But next year? Maybe not. This is not because the people at Gencon are awful, but because the medium of conversation and influence *is* economic. You don't owe Gencon charity; Gencon doesn't owe you charity. Meanwhile some folks are trying to head off any discussion of a boycott with the spurious argument that you will harm progressive businesses. This misunderstands the nature of boycotts. *All* effective boycotts inconvenience perfectly decent people. All of them. All boycotts *should* do this, because the die hard bigots won't be swayed by them. Boycotts work when progressives and moderates caught up in them decide they're done with the assholes in their midst. They either put pressure on the assholes, or steamroll them with a solution that doesn't require their consent. So unless there's a substantial change I would encourage individuals and companies alike to give Gencon a miss in 2016, not because Gencon has done anything wrong, but because this is a pillar of effective action. This is a serious issue. It affects your friends, brothers, sisters, parents, lovers. It subjects them to bigotry we associate with the nightmarish era of American racism. This is bad. I'm sorry that it requires hard choices. I'm sorry that good people will be inconvenienced. But good people stand to be inconvenienced already. That's my opinion.
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Mar 28, 2015 01:36
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I guess the question is, is GMS going to attend Gencon now? Gotta lead by example. 
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Mar 28, 2015 02:46
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MalcolmSheppard posted:Meanwhile some folks are trying to head off any discussion of a boycott with the spurious argument that you will harm progressive businesses. This misunderstands the nature of boycotts. *All* effective boycotts inconvenience perfectly decent people. All of them. All boycotts *should* do this, because the die hard bigots won't be swayed by them. Boycotts work when progressives and moderates caught up in them decide they're done with the assholes in their midst. They either put pressure on the assholes, or steamroll them with a solution that doesn't require their consent. Every protest action that consists of anything other than protesting quietly in a place where the protestors can be neither seen nor heard has idiots insisting that it's bad because it inconveniences or annoys people. I'd like to think that most people understand that said idiots are, well, idiots.
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Mar 28, 2015 03:05
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Pope Guilty posted:Every protest action that consists of anything other than protesting quietly in a place where the protestors can be neither seen nor heard has idiots insisting that it's bad because it inconveniences or annoys people. I'd like to think that most people understand that said idiots are, well, idiots. A Gen Con boycott accomplishes nothing. Salesforce, a multi billion dollar already canceled expansion plans as a result of this law. They have a larger economic impact than Gen Con ever could. Destroying Gen Con is not going to change their minds. These are the kind of republicans that thrive on martyrdom and conflict and this just feeds their persecution complex. Support legal challenges to the law and donate to politicians that will run against Mike Pence et all in the next election cycle. Support Indy businesses that oppose the law. Mike Pence probably wants Gen Con to leave the state anyway, since we're all Satanist freaks to him.
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Mar 28, 2015 05:32
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There are apparently already Indy businesses putting up stickers in support against the law. Hopefully they're still up when the con rolls in. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/indiana-officials-stem-religious-objections-fallout-29961699
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Mar 28, 2015 05:49
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clockworkjoe posted:A Gen Con boycott accomplishes nothing. Salesforce, a multi billion dollar already canceled expansion plans as a result of this law. They have a larger economic impact than Gen Con ever could. Destroying Gen Con is not going to change their minds. These are the kind of republicans that thrive on martyrdom and conflict and this just feeds their persecution complex. Support legal challenges to the law and donate to politicians that will run against Mike Pence et all in the next election cycle. Support Indy businesses that oppose the law. I'm not saying that boycotting GenCon is good or right or that it matters, just that "but it'll inconvenience innocent people!" is a dumb response to boycott calls.
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Mar 28, 2015 06:18
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Shooting yourself in the head while wearing a sign that says "the Republicans made me do it" is just as stupid as sitting quietly in a dark room complaining.
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Mar 28, 2015 06:42
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MalcolmSheppard posted:Meanwhile some folks are trying to head off any discussion of a boycott with the spurious argument that you will harm progressive businesses. This misunderstands the nature of boycotts. *All* effective boycotts inconvenience perfectly decent people. All of them. All boycotts *should* do this, because the die hard bigots won't be swayed by them. Boycotts work when progressives and moderates caught up in them decide they're done with the assholes in their midst. They either put pressure on the assholes, or steamroll them with a solution that doesn't require their consent.
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Mar 28, 2015 06:46
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PresidentBeard posted:So by boycotting what are you attempting to convince Gencon to do? They're already not going to renew their contract, and if the penalty for breaking contract was small enough to increased sales by progressives would cover it I'm sure they would have already broke contract. So you request is to harm a progressive business for no benefit. The target isn't Gencon. The target is the state of Indiana, which enjoys $50 million/year in economic activity in Indianapolis from Gencon attendees. That Gencon suffers should not be relevant. The company made its choice, no matter how regretfully, but it isn't a loving charity, remember? It'll gross $4-5 million at the turnstiles and whatever exhibitors pay. It's full of perfectly nice people who I'm sure are upset about this, but you don't go to Gencon with nice words. You go with cash. It's just a for-profit convention. There are others. MalcolmSheppard fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Mar 28, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 12:58
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What about the 19 other states that already have this law on the books? Are you boycotting them too? http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/03/27/19-states-that-have-religious-freedom-laws-like-indianas-that-no-one-is-boycotting/
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Mar 28, 2015 14:47
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Why does that bullshit statistic keep being posted as though that is the end of the story? Not talking about you, Whydirt, since obviously you did not write the article. But just speaking for my home state of Illinois, for example, sexuality is protected from discrimination like the one this bill would allow, so it is incredibly stupid for this law to be compared to Illinois'. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-indiana-illinois-religious-objections-met-20150327-story.html
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Mar 28, 2015 15:14
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