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You're such a downer. Jeez, what happened to suicide quietly by yourself and in private?
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Mar 26, 2015 21:10
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CBJSprague24 posted:Who's ready for Congress to start the outrage train again? Also, 630 TT under his belt, too. Something, something "inexperienced", something "making hasty assumptions", something something "sweeping changes in spite of everything pointing to everyone knowing him being stunned he'd do this and which will inevitably miss the point completely"... Didn't happen in the US and with only two US citizens killed it means outrage will be muted. Plus there is no law they could have enacted to change the behavior of a Spain to Germany flight. I do wonder if this will impact the 3rd class medical reform AOPA/EAA is trying for, at least the legislative option.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:11
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The Slaughter posted:You're such a downer. Jeez, what happened to suicide quietly by yourself and in private? If the co-pilot intentionally crashed this plane, it's not really fair to call it suicide. It was deliberate action to kill 149 people who had no say in the matter, if that were the case, so it bears no more similarity to a normal suicide than 9/11 does. You have to be mentally ill to want to kill yourself, but you have to be a whole 'nother kind of hosed to consider taking innocent people who had nothing to do with your problems with you.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:14
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I suppose you could call it terrorism but its fundamentally a murder-suicide.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:33
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PT6A posted:If the co-pilot intentionally crashed this plane, it's not really fair to call it suicide. It was deliberate action to kill 149 people who had no say in the matter, if that were the case, so it bears no more similarity to a normal suicide than 9/11 does. Fffffffine it's murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-suicide.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:33
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Duke Chin posted:Fffffffine it's murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-murder-suicide. Quoted for pedantic assholes everywhere. This is a horrific act of violence beyond the typical scope of a murder-suicide.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:36
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Jealous Cow posted:Quoted for pedantic assholes everywhere. This is a horrific act of violence beyond the typical scope of a murder-suicide. 9/11 and suicide bombings are murder-suicides as well, its just the name of the crime.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:41
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hobbesmaster posted:I suppose you could call it terrorism but its fundamentally a murder-suicide. I didn't mean to imply it was terrorism by the comparison to 9/11 (this incident, if it was suicide, is not similar to that either, just as it's not similar to an ordinary suicide). I would say, though, that it's distinct from most murder-suicides because of the scope, and also that the typical murder-suicide perpetrator generally has a reason for picking their victims.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:43
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MrYenko posted:I don't go to the doctor for normal poo poo, for fear of losing my medical, even temporarily. I see the flight surgeon once a year for my physical, and that's it. Same. I went to the doctor for the first time in years this winter after loving up my shoulder snowboarding. Still got DQ'd for 2 days for loving steroids I got prescribed.
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Mar 26, 2015 22:01
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Emergency access gets you in after 30 seconds as standard on most jets... but it can be blocked from inside and that locks the door for c. 20minutes completely. Need the full audio tape. And FDR.
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Mar 26, 2015 22:39
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Well, Canada's officially on board with "2 people or more on the flight deck at all times" rule, as are a few European airlines (and possibly regulating authorities).
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Mar 26, 2015 23:52
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fordan posted:Didn't happen in the US and with only two US citizens killed it means outrage will be muted. Plus there is no law they could have enacted to change the behavior of a Spain to Germany flight. I do wonder if this will impact the 3rd class medical reform AOPA/EAA is trying for, at least the legislative option. I wouldn't be surprised to see some genius Congressman try to add intense psychiatric evaluations to flight physicals in an attempt to say "Look! I'm trying to do a good thing!". As you said, the 3rd class reform just got a hell of a lot more interesting to watch. Speaking of Congress and questionable legislation, a Congressman from Ohio wants to put a cap on GI Bill benefits which would make flight training impossible using that money: http://myemail.constantcontact.com/UPDATE-on-H-R--476-and-Attack-on-Veterans-Benefits---Aviation.html?soid=1120468416929&aid=i8AUrixOB4U CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Mar 27, 2015 |
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Mar 27, 2015 02:54
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Show us on the doll where Senator Schumer touched you.CBJSprague24 posted:I wouldn't be surprised to see some genius Congressman try to add intense psychiatric evaluations to flight physicals in an attempt to say "Look! I'm trying to do a good thing!". As you said, the 3rd class reform just got a hell of a lot more interesting to watch. But if the pilot had 1500 hours someone probably would have noticed he was crazy in that time! We already have rules & policies that would have potentially prevented this and I think the media is hammering on that so I honestly think we won't see much action beyond the FAA never ever expanding their SSRI trial and the 3rd class medical reform losing congressional pressure.
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Mar 27, 2015 03:03
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Had to do a psych eval for ATC and I got in so it can't be that good.
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Mar 27, 2015 03:41
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fordan posted:Show us on the doll where Senator Schumer touched you. Yeah, the pilot with 1500 hrs is crazy because he spent money to get to 1500 hours for a job that pays less than he'd make with a CDL.
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Mar 27, 2015 04:03
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fknlo posted:Had to do a psych eval for ATC and I got in so it can't be that good. I'm pretty sure that test is just to prove that we're NOT normal.
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Mar 27, 2015 11:29
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MrYenko posted:I'm pretty sure that test is just to prove that we're NOT normal. So Catch-22 in reverse, then?
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Mar 27, 2015 15:09
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cracked 200 hours last night 
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Mar 29, 2015 03:43
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Right, so what happens if it's the Flight Attendant and a suicidal pilot? Is he or she supposed to wrestle them to the ground and fly the plane? Also, as someone else pointed out, does it really matter if two pilots are on the Flight Deck? It seems to me if one of the people flying the airplane want to bring it down, they can. Just look at Egypt Air. There were multiple people on that flight deck and at the controls and that smashed into the ocean anyway.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:06
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ZombieLenin posted:Just look at Egypt Air. There were multiple people on that flight deck and at the controls and that smashed into the ocean anyway. Mechanical malfunction. 
xaarman fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 20:14
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ZombieLenin posted:Right, so what happens if it's the Flight Attendant and a suicidal pilot? Is he or she supposed to wrestle them to the ground and fly the plane? A flight attendant would have been able to open the door for the captain. Or at least try to talk him out of it. Or grab the crash ax and dig that into the back of his skull. Having someone in there would have been better than not.
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Mar 29, 2015 22:26
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Animal posted:A flight attendant would have been able to open the door for the captain. Or at least try to talk him out of it. Or grab the crash ax and dig that into the back of his skull. Having someone in there would have been better than not. I thought that once the override switch has been flipped and the door locked down, there was a 20 minute timer on the lock. And talk him out of it? Well since people on the ohers side of the door can be heard on a cvr I'm guessing talking a pilot down is possible it in either case. Having said all that, don't get me wrong. It's a smart policy. It just seems to me if a pilot of a commercial airliner is determined to bring down a plane, they will likely be successful. Call me weird, but as a non-pilot I sort of feel like the strict mental health policies in place are actually harmful as they prevent pilots from seeking treatment. Obviously, I don't want a suicidal pilot flying me around; however, a pilot that's been treated for anxiety or mild depression? Who cares. That's like half of the people in the country. Like any disease early treatment for mental health problems has better outcomes. Instead pilots are forced to deal with depression and anxiety without treatment because they rightly fear they'll lose their jobs if the seek treatment.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:02
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"ZombieLenin" posted:Call me weird, but as a non-pilot I sort of feel like the strict mental health policies in place are actually harmful as they prevent pilots from seeking treatment. Obviously, I don't want a suicidal pilot flying me around; however, a pilot that's been treated for anxiety or mild depression? Who cares. That's like half of the people in the country. Please run for congress.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:22
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ZombieLenin posted:I thought that once the override switch has been flipped and the door locked down, there was a 20 minute timer on the lock. From the outside.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:31
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Captain Apollo posted:Please run for congress. Unfortunately, unless the a history of association with Marxist parties becomes acceptable. I don't think I am electable.
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Mar 30, 2015 01:50
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ZombieLenin posted:Unfortunately, unless the a history of association with Marxist parties becomes acceptable. I don't think I am electable. Might be possible in Washington State. Hell with all the sun deprived hipsters up there you'd blend right in and no one would even notice that you were a zombie. Also Air Canada slid an a320 off a runway in Halifax today. Looks similar to the delta incident in LGA but the airplane is a lot more banged up. Friendly reminder: snow and ice are slippery.
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Mar 30, 2015 08:32
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KodiakRS posted:Might be possible in Washington State. Hell with all the sun deprived hipsters up there you'd blend right in and no one would even notice that you were a zombie. From what I've read, the A320 actually touched down about 1,000 ft before the runway threshold (collapsing the gear somewhere along the line), and then slid for about 2,000ft before coming to a stop on the runway. There was a snowstorm in progress at the time, but the ceiling and visibility were reported as being slightly above the approach minimums, so it'll be interesting to see what the probable cause ends up being.
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Mar 30, 2015 10:16
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Just having someone, anyone on the flight deck with whoever decides it's time to kill themselves is a good thing. This fucker is going to take you all to your deaths anyway, it's better being up there and screaming at him or whatever you come up with rather than being locked in the trunk watching the ground rush up at you. Just so some gently caress can't quietly set the altitude hold to put it into the ground, select a comfortable yet expedient rate of descent and lean way back in his chair breathing deeply and watching what a modern big steel jet looks like as it flies itself into the Earth. Even a five foot nothing blond 20-something flight attendant would make a hell of a noise when she realised what Flight Officer Fucknut was doing. edit: I said gently caress a lot. gently caress him. loving rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 30, 2015 12:23
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azflyboy posted:From what I've read, the A320 actually touched down about 1,000 ft before the runway threshold (collapsing the gear somewhere along the line), and then slid for about 2,000ft before coming to a stop on the runway. There was a snowstorm in progress at the time, but the ceiling and visibility were reported as being slightly above the approach minimums, so it'll be interesting to see what the probable cause ends up being. They were apparently flying a NDB approach in a snowstorm with 1/2SM visibility. That seems insane, but I'm not instrument rated...
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Mar 30, 2015 14:47
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It's two thousand fifteen. Anybody flying an NDB approach is insane.
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Mar 30, 2015 14:49
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http://www.fltplan.com/Airport.cgi?CYHZ Look at the options for runway 5. I guess it could have been the localizer backtrack but the point remains. The METAR from avherald: CYHZ 290400Z 34019G54KT 3/4SM R14/5000VP6000FT/D -SN DRSN BKN007 OVC010 M06/M07 A2964 RMK SF7SC1 SLP045 CYHZ 290313Z 35020G26KT 1/2SM R14/3500V4500FT/N SN DRSN VV003 M06/M07 A2963 RMKSN8 SLP040 CYHZ 290300Z CCA 34019G25KT 1/4SM R14/P6000VM0300FT/N +SN DRSN VV003 M06/M07 A2962 RMK SN8 /S09/ SLP038 They apparently touched down 1100ft short of the runway which is about 1/4 mile. They just barely would have seen the runway.
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Mar 30, 2015 14:53
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I'm going to hazard a guess and say they were equipped to do the RNAV approach as well (which has lower minimums). That weather still sucks. That last two being below minimums for both approaches I believe.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:46
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AVHerald claims that they were not equipped to do RNAV approaches.
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Mar 30, 2015 16:51
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Mar 30, 2015 16:54
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There is a LOC / NDB 5 approach. I imagine they were on the LOC not the NDB.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:00
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Yeah and it's just a normal LOC approach, not a back course
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Mar 30, 2015 17:11
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"Sure, let's do the localizer approach, maybe it's actually NOT 1/4sm viz! What could go wrong!" Is "thou shalt not commence the approach when wx is below mins" just a Navy/Marine thing, or a rest-of-the-world-too thing?
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Mar 30, 2015 17:29
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It depends on the operator. When you think about it, as long as you don't bust minimum altitude, it's perfectly safe. Those rules are entirely human-factor related. People can't be trusted to fly an approach to minimums then call it quits, so you have to mandate that they don't even try.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:32
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But humans are terrible! Let's just go a little bit lower, we're on course, no biggie, we really don't want to have to head to our alternate...
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Mar 30, 2015 17:33
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I wonder what percentage of all scheduled carrier fleet aircraft in North America don't have GPS these days. Even though the LPV approach was still below minimums I think.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:41
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