|
Quote of the day, "Omar, by the way, is my favorite character." ~ Barack Obama, on The Wire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWY79JCfhjw
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 22:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 23:20 |
|
|
JT Jag posted:Cut spending, balance the budget Freedom isn't free. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 22:59
|
|
|
Joementum posted:Quote of the day, "Omar, by the way, is my favorite character." ~ Barack Obama, on The Wire. If Barack had operated under the assumption that you get good or you get got from the very beginning, things wouldn't have gone nearly as rough during his first term. JT Jag fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Mar 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 22:59
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:There are a lot of different brands of anarchism, some of them a bit more reasonable than others. What if America were run like Noisebridge
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:01
|
|
|
Joementum posted:Quote of the day, "Omar, by the way, is my favorite character." ~ Barack Obama, on The Wire. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:02
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:What if America were run like Noisebridge In theory, if an entire country was run anarchistically under the primary directive of "love thy neighbor as thyself" it could work. That said, the larger an anarchistic project becomes, the more difficult it is to keep it focused on its purpose. (the lack of a truly defined purpose or policy goal to guide it in lieu of human leadership was why Occupy, which had a lot of anarchistic tendencies, guttered out)
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:08
|
|
|
Nintendo Kid posted:Yes, the normal progression with them is that the Republican government makes a big show of how it's totally going to pass to get conservative cred for the next election, and then just silently neglects to actually have it enter into law. Indiana's loving up by actually signing it and putting the state at risk of lawsuit. This describes most conservative policies, not just anti-gay discrimination.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:08
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:There are a lot of different brands of anarchism, some of them a bit more reasonable than others. None of them are more reasonable at the end goal: the lack of state force.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:12
|
|
|
Zeitgueist posted:Freedom isn't free. I'm so excited to see what the ROI will be this time!
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:15
|
|
|
Nintendo Kid posted:None of them are more reasonable at the end goal: the lack of state force.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:18
|
|
|
It's a fascinating thing, because there is exactly one time where I thought I was in danger from what was happening in the mid-east, and that's the recent list of US military on a kill list... which is a result of our investment in freedom. As far as I know I'm not on it, but holy poo poo that is terrifying. Boon fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Mar 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:19
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:One of the definitions of a state is an entity that has a legal monopoly on the application of force. The end goal of anarchism is to replace the state and its governing mechanics with the people themselves. Not lawlessness so much as statelessness. The definition of a republic is a form of government in which state power is vested in the people so...
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:19
|
|
|
Stultus Maximus posted:The definition of a republic is a form of government in which state power is vested in the people so...
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:21
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:One of the definitions of a state is an entity that has a legal monopoly on the application of force. The end goal of anarchism is to replace the state and its governing mechanics with the people themselves. Not lawlessness so much as statelessness. Which you can't do. You will have lawlessness when you have statelessness unless you have some hidden method that's 100% effective at preventing people rom disagreeing with the general rules. And since states are not in themselves bad, chasing after the magical thing to make anarchism work this time is pointless: humanity figured out states work great literally thousands of years ago.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:27
|
|
|
The Coons amendment (Pay for War on ISIS) was not agreed to 46-54, a party-line vote. Senator Enzi announces that they've completed 17 votes in six hours. The next tranche includes 26 amendments. He mentions that Mitch bought dinner for everyone and asks for volunteers to order breakfast and lunch.  We move on to an amendment from Senator Isakson (R-GA) to use the funds from Iranian sanctions payments to compensate the hostages from the 70s. Senator Blumenthal (D-CT) notes that there is a separate bill that will do anyway. The amendment is agreed to by voice vote. Senator Stabenow (D-MI) now introduces an amendment that would reverse any cuts to Medicare in the Republican budget.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:28
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:Through representatives, and the extent that a republic actually represents its citizenry can vary greatly. On the other hand, Occupy was a pretty visible example of how anarchist consensus decision making is completely inadequate to running anything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:33
|
|
|
Why dont we just support the Green Party? They seem to have pretty good policy and they aren't ran by craven lunatics
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:35
|
|
|
His Purple Majesty posted:Why dont we just support the Green Party? They seem to have pretty good policy and they aren't ran by craven lunatics *results may vary by state
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:36
|
|
|
Nintendo Kid posted:Which you can't do. You will have lawlessness when you have statelessness unless you have some hidden method that's 100% effective at preventing people rom disagreeing with the general rules. Whether a country could survive if it attempted true anarchism is dubious. It's also the wrong question to ask. The concept of the state breaks down in an anarchistic society. People would (again, in theory of course) be more preoccupied with taking care of their local communities than about the country as a whole. The right question is could the people survive and thrive in a stateless society? Stultus Maximus posted:On the other hand, Occupy was a pretty visible example of how anarchist consensus decision making is completely inadequate to running anything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:38
|
|
|
His Purple Majesty posted:Why dont we just support the Green Party? They seem to have pretty good policy and they aren't ran by craven lunatics They do not have good policy on a whole host of issues. JT Jag posted:Like I said before, the ability of an anarchist collective to operate with purpose tends to degrade the larger the collective is. Some relatively small groups have operated along anarchist lines successfully, and it is potentially a useful ideology for select circumstances. Yes, "anarchism" can only operate when you actually have a state. JT Jag posted:
They couldn't. So someone would make a state again. It's simple.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:41
|
|
|
Joementum posted:The Coons amendment (Pay for War on ISIS) was not agreed to 46-54, a party-line vote. Joementum, let me say that I really, really appreciate your posts and posts like these, as banal as the subject matter can be sometimes. As horrifying as American politics can be at times, they still fascinate me. What do you do for a living that allows you to pay such close attention to all the procedural goings-on in Congress and still post on SA all day? Because I want that job. How do I get the job. Give me the job.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:48
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:The right question is could the people survive and thrive in a stateless society? Theoretically? Sure, why not? Realistically? No loving way. It's basically the same question as, could a market absent of regulation thrive? No. Because people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:48
|
|
|
a shameful boehner posted:Joementum, let me say that I really, really appreciate your posts and posts like these, as banal as the subject matter can be sometimes. I believe that job is called 'congressman'.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:51
|
|
|
Boon posted:Theoretically? Sure, why not? It would require constant and deliberate effort to prevent the natural formation of governments. Which is itself almost the sort of thing you'd need government for. It's not possible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:54
|
|
|
The Stabenow amendment (blocking Medicare cuts) was not agreed to 46-54. We move on to the Portman (R-OH) amendment which would allow the CBO to use "dynamic scoring" (i.e. "Reaganomics is reaaaallll") when reporting impact of bills on the budget. "Dynamic scoring is nothing more than an accounting gimmick... tax cuts did not grow our economy, they just grew our debt." ~ Bernie, in response.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:56
|
|
|
His Purple Majesty posted:Why dont we just support the Green Party? They seem to have pretty good policy and they aren't ran by craven lunatics Yes antivaxers who out of principle oppose our best way out of oil are a great people to support.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:56
|
|
|
Joementum posted:Quote of the day, "Omar, by the way, is my favorite character." ~ Barack Obama, on The Wire.  Disappointed he didn't say Brother Mouzone. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:57
|
|
|
I wish I lived in a country where Bernie Sanders' thinking was the norm instead of what we have now 
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:58
|
|
|
For the record I'm a Social-Democratic Keynesian one-world-government federalist who wishes the UN was as strong as the EU, and I do not endorse any of the views I am currently making. I am, however, sympathetic to the fundamental human desire to be free from the shackles of oppression. A government you are obligated to obey from birth could be interpreted as such, and anarchism is a natural result of that desire.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2015 23:58
|
|
|
a shameful boehner posted:Joementum, let me say that I really, really appreciate your posts and posts like these, as banal as the subject matter can be sometimes. FYI, Joementum is this guy
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 00:02
|
|
|
Joementum posted:The Stabenow amendment (blocking Medicare cuts) was not agreed to 46-54. How does this work? Because I could swear I hear something about the house voting to increase medicare payments to doctors on the way home from work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 00:02
|
|
|
ReidRansom posted:How does this work? Because I could swear I hear something about the house voting to increase medicare payments to doctors on the way home from work. This is super boring, so I'll just link to an article explaining it, but basically the House voted to make permanent a measure they've voted for each year for the last 17 years, but didn't want to make permanent before because it increases the deficit, so they liked pretending that it was only temporary. The Stabenow amendment, which failed and wouldn't have done anything anyway, was about restricting the Senate Finance Committee from choosing fund allocations for the Medicare trust fund and zzzzzzzzzzz.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 00:05
|
|
|
ReidRansom posted:How does this work? Because I could swear I hear something about the house voting to increase medicare payments to doctors on the way home from work. Doctors deserve to be paid for helping Medicare patients. We just need fewer patients using Medicare to get the help they need.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 00:09
|
|
|
Quote of the night, "Ted [Cruz] is a good friend and would be an outstanding President; however, I haven't ruled out an exploratory committee myself." ~ Louie Gohmert.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 00:09
|
|
|
A Winner is Jew posted:FYI, Joementum is this guy  Joementum doesn't poo poo on Millennials and fellate GenX nearly as often as Weigel.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 00:11
|
|
|
Joementum posted:This is super boring, so I'll just link to an article explaining it, but basically the House voted to make permanent a measure they've voted for each year for the last 17 years, but didn't want to make permanent before because it increases the deficit, so they liked pretending that it was only temporary. So, they want to spend more and also reserve the right to spend less at the same time because they're stupid and our government is broken. Got it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 00:12
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:who wishes the UN was as strong as the EU Why do you hate the UN so much?
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 00:12
|
|
|
ComradeCosmobot posted:Doctors deserve to be paid for helping Medicare patients. We just need fewer patients using Medicare to get the help they need. Eh, I'd argue we should just all be on medicare.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 00:12
|
|
|
Ballz posted:
Am I being fellated without even realizing? Goddammit I hate when that happens.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 00:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 23:20 |
|
|
Nintendo Kid posted:. As much as I hate to agree with him fishmech is right. Anarchism relies on people not being selfish monsters, and as soon as law breaks down you have people using force to project personal power, which leads to all sorts of horrible poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2015 00:13
|
|
