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Willie Tomg posted:hey. hey. I was going to disagree with you until : quote:When I was a pre-teen and getting into food back in the 90s, we didn’t really have Internet. AOL dial-up was just coming out. I didn’t have access to any of the things that young chefs have access to today: I didn’t know what restaurants existed in the world, I didn’t know how to look up ingredients, and there were no resources other than encyclopedias and a very limited supply of cookbooks. I read my first cookbook, The French Laundry Cookbook, 1,000 times. I memorized all of the recipes. lol gently caress you dude. the french laundry cookbook isn't even a loving cookbook. it's a bunch of pages of nice photos with thomas keller's crew waxing poetic about doing the poo poo you'd learn how to do if you read an actual hardcore cookbook or just put in your time at a decent french place. also whos first cookbook is the french laundry cookbook. why are you reading about savoy cabbage which you admittedly have no idea what it is out of a memoir for a fancy restaurant you've never eaten at and then lamenting people don't know how to cook??? whatttttttt 
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Mar 25, 2015 05:43
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I'm certainly no chef, but I instinctively hate anyone who has gotten to a level of mastery in a field that immediately turns around and shits on the enthusiasm of the next generation because they aren't signaling their dedication in the ways that they were taught back in the Pleistocene. "Those kids don't REALLY want to be [insert profession]! They haven't been whipped with barbed wire and hit with Klingon painstiks in their Rite of Ascension! They sure don't make 'em like they used to!" Yeah gently caress you, if you really feel that way, maybe make some goddamn suggestions about how an inexperienced chef (which you admitted you once were with rosy nostalgia in the last goddamn paragraph) can approach mastery rather than just froth semi-coherently about KIDS THESE DAYS. .txt chef edition
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Mar 25, 2015 07:02
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bloody ghost titty posted:Big difference between that and the bullshit warrior/monk vibe that guy just rocked. Oh for sure. I'm all for the food industry being more sane in the US and do think that attitude of "well *I* had to wade through this poo poo so you should have to, too" is counterproductive and comes from a place of deep bitterness. I don't buy the idea that there's some shortage of competent cooks either. The idea that you have to be some doormat that'll work insane hours and put up with emotional abuse to be considered "good" is dumb as hell.
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Mar 25, 2015 07:19
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mindphlux posted:I was going to disagree with you until : Hell, it was the 1990's. The Joy of Cooking was in every library in the country. Man, those comments remind me why, no matter how much I miss the work, I'm glad I got out of the industry. A year later I'm pulling in $25 an hour with full bennies on 2/3 the hours I used to crank out in the bakery, have PTO and a 401k, and no longer drink like I'm trying to die. Look around at the folks in this thread, and realize that for every one of us there's a hundred other people in the meat grinder trying to live on peanuts for the love of food. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 09:39
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Plus, food's pretty tasty right now, almost everywhere. I can't believe how good most of the places I go to these days are. Even if cooks and chefs were apparently better twenty years ago in general the food's a whole lot better now for some reason. Maybe this information age stuff actually works.
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Mar 25, 2015 11:22
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some gently caress posted:Looking back, I was coming up with very weird dishes; you might look at them now and consider them modern, but this was 15 years ago and I didn’t know poo poo about anything. It was just all made up. I think I had a dish of pigeon liver mousse, apricot sorbet, and lavender caramel, which sounded cool to me, but really I had no idea what I was doing. Ugh look at this gently caress stroking his own dick. The Jewish folks got one thing right -- the greatest thing you can do is give anonymously. Just put out good work and shut your loving mouth. Also, the first few seasons of top chef were pretty good, as in "oh maybe I have a chance to get myself out of hell." And yeah, as great and passionate as the world is, if you get the opportunity for a 50% raise for 1/3rd less work and all the alcolol you can carry, take it.
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Mar 25, 2015 14:12
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Thoht posted:I don't buy the idea that there's some shortage of competent cooks either. I'd say it's the opposite. It's a shortage of dumb, lovely cooks who are desperate enough to get physically and mentally abused for minimum wage.
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Mar 25, 2015 16:48
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Turkeybone posted:And yeah, as great and passionate as the world is, if you get the opportunity for a 50% raise for 1/3rd less work and all the alcolol you can carry, take it. Liquid Communism posted:Man, those comments remind me why, no matter how much I miss the work, I'm glad I got out of the industry. A year later I'm pulling in $25 an hour with full bennies on 2/3 the hours I used to crank out in the bakery, have PTO and a 401k, and no longer drink like I'm trying to die. gently caress the industry and the way it takes advantage of people. Get out or move to the least lovely cooking job possible as soon as you can.
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Mar 25, 2015 17:26
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So, since we're on the topic, this is something I've been thinking about recently. I feel a lot like things won't get much better for food industry folks until they're actually organized on a substantial level similar to other skilled trades like electricians, plumbers, and construction workers. That's not to say that organizations like unions don't have their own problems and there certainly are union workplaces out there already though it's far from an industry-wide thing. But I do still feel like unless you have the power that comes from having a group behind you when negotiating that the guys at the top will just always pretty much take as much from you as they can get away with. An alternative would be places organizing their businesses more like a co-op and/or with profit sharing, but I don't see many people going that route voluntarily, especially with the gently caress you got mine attitude prevalent among people who've fought their way up. And the funny thing is I've talked to loads of other people who've had the same thoughts - this is obviously not a unique idea and I'm sure countless people have had it before for many many years. And yet it never happened for our industry, unlike those other trades that now enjoy a lot more protections and better pay. I'm really curious as to why that is. So, what I'm wondering is if any of you have some insight or ideas as to what has stopped/is stopping our industry from getting more organized/regulated/etc.
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Mar 25, 2015 19:17
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Thoht posted:
Republicans. The companies that employ us. Etc.
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Mar 25, 2015 19:28
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Thoht posted:So, what I'm wondering is if any of you have some insight or ideas as to what has stopped/is stopping our industry from getting more organized/regulated/etc. I'd say that it's the basic instability and narrow profit margins of the average restaurant, which are also in tension with consumer expectations for what a restaurant meal should cost. Right now a consumer expects that a basic non-fast food burger and fries meal will cost (I'll use the good burger place down the street from me as a baseline) $12. But that price point exists as a result of operational and labour costs on one hand, versus what the customer is willing to pay on the other. Certainly the people who make that burger for me know what they're doing and they do it well, but for me to go in and fork over my cash for a meal, the burger has to unfortunately be at a price point that's so low that they're only going to be paying them near minimum wage. If they were charging me more to cover higher wages - say $16 for the burger and fries - I probably wouldn't spend my money there. Now I know that this doesn't include higher-end establishments, but that low margin for lower-end establishments affects the labour negotiating process for higher-margin operations, in which consumer expectation has less affect on price points. Because the overall food-service labour market exists largely at that lower end, the higher-paying jobs become an employers market, and relatively little needs to be offered as incentive by employers - "fine, if you don't like my $3/hr above minimum wage, go back to the burger shack, because it won't take me long to find someone else who will take it." The markets which can support unionization and unionized pay - hotels in particular - are largely unionized already.
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Mar 25, 2015 19:35
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CommonShore posted:I'd say that it's the basic instability and narrow profit margins of the average restaurant, which are also in tension with consumer expectations for what a restaurant meal should cost. Really, it isn't so much about all of that, as it is about the shrinking middle class in the US. I spent $50 on dinner last night. Just had a salad, a burger, and a few drinks between the 2 of us, plus tip. That doesn't obther me at all because thanks to my wife's income, we're middle class and 50bux isn't much money. But, when you consider that middle class isn't what it was even 20 years ago, and people expect low prices now, and economics, and blah blah blah. You could have been a great line cook in the 90s at a good restaurant and make 10-12/hr. James Beard award winning Executive Chef David Bull of Congress and 2nd Bar & Kitchen does not pay his cooks any more than $10/hr. Mostly so he can keep his menu prices low.
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Mar 25, 2015 20:29
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This is awesome. The place is full, we have a live band and people are eating all kinds of food. The bad part is the bar owner allowed this group of people to cater their own party. I have sold nothing since I opened at 4. gently caress this. And then he bitches that the profit from my kitchen isn't up to par. STOP LETTING PEOPLE BRING FUCKIGN FOOD IN THEN!!!
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Mar 26, 2015 02:02
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Plating fee, yo.
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Mar 26, 2015 02:20
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Errant Gin Monks posted:This is awesome. The place is full, we have a live band and people are eating all kinds of food. The bad part is the bar owner allowed this group of people to cater their own party. I have sold nothing since I opened at 4. gently caress this. Kick him in the dick. Chef De Cuisinart posted:Really, it isn't so much about all of that, as it is about the shrinking middle class in the US. I spent $50 on dinner last night. Just had a salad, a burger, and a few drinks between the 2 of us, plus tip. That doesn't obther me at all because thanks to my wife's income, we're middle class and 50bux isn't much money. But, when you consider that middle class isn't what it was even 20 years ago, and people expect low prices now, and economics, and blah blah blah. Don't forget that any unionization effort would have to get past the easy availability of scrubs, and the vast number of illegals working in the kitchen industry. No cook who's been living paycheck to paycheck forever due to poo poo wages industry wide, can afford to strike. Not to mention that 10-12 an hour in 1999 is $14-17 in 2015 money, after inflation. Take that to heart. ~43% inflation in the last 15 years, as compared to stagnant wages. I was making less, in absolute terms, as a baker than I did working for Dairy Queen at 15. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 09:06
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I've been looking for another chef job in Brooklyn, because im burned out and over working in the city right now. For some reason I Googled chef jobs over seas and I'm super tempted. If I can take my wife I would totally get the gently caress out of here. Does anyone know anything about relocating and cooking in a different country?
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Mar 27, 2015 23:35
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cods posted:I've been looking for another chef job in Brooklyn, because im burned out and over working in the city right now. For some reason I Googled chef jobs over seas and I'm super tempted. If I can take my wife I would totally get the gently caress out of here. Does anyone know anything about relocating and cooking in a different country? "Chef Jobs OverseasTM" is a pretty broad category of stuff which'll change depending on your landing zone. Whatever you do, be very very careful and always have a way back. A dude who left our line now has kind of a sweet gig working as the cook for offshore oil rigs, and he's doing okay, sorta. Because as it turns out the nature of his job means he either works 16 hour days for two weeks on, two weeks off and clears 50-60k/year, or the company keeps him on the rig for a while longer and now he has to explain to his boo why he's gonna be a week late coming home, or they send him home early and now he doesn't have money he thought he'd have, and whatever happens to him he doesn't really get a whole lot of say about it. Y'know its not the worst, he's doing pretty okay in a material sense, but even abroad there's no free lunch. Not for chefs, anyway.
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Mar 28, 2015 18:08
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So true. I went home and was so jazzed up, and I told my wife "hey, where do you want to go? Let's get out of here! Australia? France?" And was like "no... we just got here." Which is true. We've only been in new York for two years. I think we have all been in a place where it feels like you're suffocating. And I have a really lovely week ahead and I just don't want to deal with it. Also, I'm pretty sure I signed something that says I need to give a months notice. I'm not going to leave them hanging by any means, but a month is kinda bullshit. Hopefully I don't get sued or anything.
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Mar 29, 2015 00:33
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Go for a hotel job dudebro. Or try and get into food R&D.
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Mar 29, 2015 01:10
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Hotels in NYC are a tough crowd, I will never tire of saying it. Find a good operator in a hotel, see about getting in. Expect the pay to still suck. Chef De Cuisinart posted:Go for a hotel job dudebro. Or try and get into food R&D.
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Mar 29, 2015 01:22
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cods posted:So true. I went home and was so jazzed up, and I told my wife "hey, where do you want to go? Let's get out of here! Australia? France?" And was like "no... we just got here." Which is true. We've only been in new York for two years. I think we have all been in a place where it feels like you're suffocating. And I have a really lovely week ahead and I just don't want to deal with it. A month is bull poo poo? Didn't you say you were an exec?
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Mar 30, 2015 04:05
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also just because you signed something doesn't mean it means anything. I don't know about NY, but tons of states are so called "right to work" states, where you aren't legally obligated to give any notice at all before quitting a job. I'm in GA and it's that way here, and I'm pretty sure most of the eastern states are the same. I mean not being a dick is commendable, but do what's right for you. if that is getting the hell out of the US, more power to you.
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Mar 30, 2015 07:13
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mindphlux posted:also just because you signed something doesn't mean it means anything. I don't know about NY, but tons of states are so called "right to work" states, where you aren't legally obligated to give any notice at all before quitting a job. I'm in GA and it's that way here, and I'm pretty sure most of the eastern states are the same. This is correct on both counts. I have agreed with mindphlux. I need a shower.
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Mar 30, 2015 17:24
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Willie Tomg posted:"Chef Jobs OverseasTM" is a pretty broad category of stuff which'll change depending on your landing zone. Indeed. I mean, like, 'overseas' is 194 countries (192 if we're going to be pedantic and not count Mexico and Canada), 6 billion people and like 7/8ths of the world's surface, and being an American chef in the UK is going to be wildly different to being one in, like, Thailand. 
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Mar 30, 2015 18:50
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mindphlux posted:also just because you signed something doesn't mean it means anything. I don't know about NY, but tons of states are so called "right to work" states, where you aren't legally obligated to give any notice at all before quitting a job. I'm in GA and it's that way here, and I'm pretty sure most of the eastern states are the same. Just nitpicking because I see this confusion a lot, right-to-work has to do with unionization, whereas what you're describing is an at-will state. Many at-will states are also right-to-work and vice versa e: not industry, just clearing up confusion. Ducking back out now
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Mar 30, 2015 19:51
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A month notice as a chef de cuisine is a gently caress you move. Three months is more pro.
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Mar 30, 2015 20:03
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infiniteguest posted:A month notice as a chef de cuisine is a gently caress you move. Three months is more pro. lol what
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Mar 30, 2015 20:15
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what kind of amateur clownshoes moonlighting jerkwad doesn't kick in the door each afternoon, plant a finger square in the owner's sternum, look 'em right in the eye and say in no uncertain terms "Just a heads up, but on a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero. We are all but dust. Plan accordingly."
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Mar 30, 2015 20:37
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Willie Tomg posted:what kind of amateur clownshoes moonlighting jerkwad doesn't kick in the door each afternoon, plant a finger square in the owner's sternum, look 'em right in the eye and say in no uncertain terms "Just a heads up, but on a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero. We are all but dust. Plan accordingly." Cut the foreplay man, just ask.
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Mar 31, 2015 03:59
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Turkeybone posted:A month is bull poo poo? Didn't you say you were an exec? Well, I was a cdc, but them I was gifted a bunch of responsibilities overseeing several operations without signing poo poo or even agreeing to it. And about the overseas... the other day I was ready to spit shine barnacles off of a rich guys dick in the south pacific to get out of my current situation. But now it seems my sous is about to quit because he just got offered another sous job that pays more than I make(niiice), so not being a total dick I'm going to have to ride that out so poo poo doesn't collapse.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:10
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:lol what My reasoning for this is that as a CDC (depending on the scale of the restaurant, number of employees, the logistics of finding a replacement) you're accountable for more people than just your boss. The CDC leaving changes the game plan for the dish crew, the cooks, and particularly the sous chefs. Giving a three month window not only allows for you to hella poach staff for your new gig (and find replacements) it also gives a perception of personal investment in the restaurant beyond the term of employment that is simply professional. Having a good track record of leaving a business on more solid footing than when you started means you have the sort of business connections with previous employers than can get you future investors - both in the concrete sense of people who will straight up give you money to operate a business, or even just future salaried jobs where you can negotiate more effectively for niceties like fancy equipment, publicity, and R&D/travel expenses. I'm not saying that a month's notice is bad, it's just not a strategically savvy move. If you don't really care about the owners and don't care about getting any major favors from them in the future, a month is cool.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:10
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:Just nitpicking because I see this confusion a lot, right-to-work has to do with unionization, whereas what you're describing is an at-will state. Many at-will states are also right-to-work and vice versa sorry, you're right. we don't have 'dem unions in GA so I don't have much experience with that - but duly noted.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:54
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cods posted:But now it seems my sous is about to quit because he just got offered another sous job that pays more than I make(niiice), so not being a total dick I'm going to have to ride that out so poo poo doesn't collapse. A thing to consider : Do you care? If their poo poo collapses, is it any skin off your back? Do you have any financial interest in the place? If not, then that is strictly the owners' problem.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:30
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Liquid Communism posted:A thing to consider : Do you care? This applies more to the business than just the job in particular, but if the answer is no: 
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Mar 31, 2015 15:32
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Has anyone ever done a tasting menu in the interview process? I'm curious about the logistics of it -- do you bring your own food, buy it that day, or use what's in the restaurant's walk-in?
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Mar 31, 2015 21:55
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Tender Child Loins posted:Has anyone ever done a tasting menu in the interview process? I'm curious about the logistics of it -- do you bring your own food, buy it that day, or use what's in the restaurant's walk-in? I've always had them just give me some restrictions on what proteins I can use and the rest is up to me on what to prepare using what they had on hand. Maybe really fancy places would be open to you bringing in ingredients. It's always been "Can you cook with the poo poo we have" for me.
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Apr 1, 2015 00:39
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Uncle Lizard posted:I've always had them just give me some restrictions on what proteins I can use and the rest is up to me on what to prepare using what they had on hand. Maybe really fancy places would be open to you bringing in ingredients. It's always been "Can you cook with the poo poo we have" for me. Basically this, BUT - DO bring your own knives/equipment/whatever, if you think there's even a tiny chance they'll ask you to prepare something. You don't want to be forced to use whatever lovely, ill maintained gear they have on hand because you didn't bring the stuff you'd bring to a normal shift.
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Apr 1, 2015 03:37
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Tender Child Loins posted:Has anyone ever done a tasting menu in the interview process? I'm curious about the logistics of it -- do you bring your own food, buy it that day, or use what's in the restaurant's walk-in? A tasting menu, or a tasting? Making a dish or two on the fly is pretty standard and you work out of their stock, but if they're asking you to do a full on tasting menu with a dozen or so dishes then yeah most people would bring everything in with them.
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Apr 1, 2015 05:26
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3 months seems overly long. I have had director level positions at corporations and haven't ever put in a 3 month notice. 2-4 weeks is more than appropriate. Hell sometimes I have seen people give a notice and are immediately escorted out the door and requests sent to remove their access that day in the name of sarbanes-oxley.
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Apr 1, 2015 23:12
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When I was a sous and I left I gave six weeks notice, but I am a nice guy, and left on good terms.
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Apr 2, 2015 00:11
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