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gently caress You And Diebold posted:The Israeli weapons that could sterilize the Gaza Strip would also inevitably hurt Israel itself though. It isn't kindness that stops them from pressing the button. I think you underestimate the human genius for brutality. Gaza is a densely populated place and if the Israelis were really the heartless butchers their haters describe them as, they could finely separate all the material in the Gaza strip without endangering themselves.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:20
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hakimashou posted:Israel could kill everyone in the gaza strip using airplanes, missiles, and artillery. Not enough Palestinian children to target anymore unfortunately.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:21
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hakimashou posted:Israel could kill everyone in the gaza strip using airplanes, missiles, and artillery. Nope. It would cost way too much money using conventional weapons and the US might actually end weapons shipments if Israel went full genocide, which they really cannot afford. And as said above they don't have the stockpiles to accomplish it. And it would be happening in a vacuum.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:21
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Venom Snake posted:No, they couldn't. Israel doesn't have the weapon stock piles nor do they have the will. You're entirely right. Unlike their enemies, Israel does not have the will to conduct some hideous criminal extermination of their opponents.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:22
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hakimashou posted:You're entirely right. Unlike their enemies, Israel does not have the will to conduct some hideous criminal extermination of their opponents. No because the moment they start going maximum Hitler the US will take their toys back.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:23
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hakimashou posted:I think you underestimate the human genius for brutality. Gaza is a densely populated place and if the Israelis were really the heartless butchers their haters describe them as, they could finely separate all the material in the Gaza strip without endangering themselves. Why do you think the threshold for heartless butcher is killing literally everyone.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:23
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hakimashou posted:You're entirely right. Unlike their enemies, Israel does not have the will to conduct some hideous criminal extermination of their opponents. Tell us more about the bloodthirsty Arab.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:23
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hakimashou posted:You're entirely right. Unlike their enemies, Israel does not have the will to conduct some hideous criminal extermination of their opponents. No, they don't have the will because turning Gaza into Stalingrad 2.0 is loving stupid. You think getting Hamas out is hard now? Try weeding through miles of rubble and say it would be easier to bomb Gaza into a ruin to get rid of Hamas and the Gaza citizenry.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:24
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hakimashou posted:You're entirely right. Unlike their enemies, Israel does not have the will to conduct some hideous criminal extermination of their opponents. What do you call what they are doing now? It is just the slower version their constituents can ignore.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:25
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Convincing the moderate muslim world that Israel isn't the little satan is clearly not something Israel is particularly concerned about at the moment, if you think any Likudnik is going to sacrifice what they consider to be "national security" goals in favor of "maybe Iran will deny the holocaust less often" you clearly don't understand what these people are actually striving for, they would laugh at your face not because of your valiant notions of equality and how bad israel is but because you do not even seem to understand their most basic of motivations, here's a clue, that many people in this thread need: perhaps not every single Israeli right winger is a liar who's solely motivated by his innate hatred of arabs, perhaps there are some rational motives for their actions and policies. Oh I believe the Israeli government's lack of concern for the opinions or lives of Muslim moderates is more than well established at this point. I have no doubt that Netanyahu has a mental framework that justifies the actions of the IDF these last few years, but the paranoid reasoning behind his policies doesn't particularly sway me, nor should it you, seeing that you've presented yourself as an Israeli moderate. He is an ideologue, and so is probably quite beyond reasoning, ethical or otherwise. But the idea that he is convinced that his actions lead to the long-term security of Israel is besides the point, because he is wrong. Why you're working so hard to play devil's advocate here is beyond my understanding. emanresu tnuocca posted:The US is also not beholden to the will of any foreign government, if anything Obama's actions demonstrate this very well, if you think that this notion will find traction among the american public (as is implied by the 'dam' metaphor) than you either believe the ZOG propaganda yourself or you believe that the american public believes it. Time will tell, I suppose. You're right that "pro two state" is not strictly speaking "anti Israel". But there's a wide gulf between a) Israeli moderates meeting with Palestinian moderates to craft a peace deal because they believe it is in their interests, and b) the United States softening its veto protection and Israel being dragged to the table by sanctions and official UN recognition. For what it's worth, I think you're greatly underestimating the moment of clarity this past year has been for many Democrats. There was already a vocally "anti Israel" (in that actual sense) wing in the party. Unabashed support of Israel going from an unquestioned axiom of US Middle East policy to a partisan issue would represent a huge sea change.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:26
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:No because the moment they start going maximum Hitler the US will take their toys back. "You know what Al Qaeda, you were right. Death to Israel. Let 9/11 bygones be bygones" The USA dropped nuclear bombs on cities in times of conflict.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:28
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hakimashou posted:Israel has such weapons and could make the Gaza strip a graveyard any time they liked. It's unlikely anyone would do anything to stop them either. And yet, being able to, they choose not to. There are Palestinians outside of Gaza. It wouldn't kill all the Palestinians if they just bomb Gaza.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:29
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hakimashou posted:"You know what Al Qaeda, you were right. Death to Israel. Let 9/11 bygones be bygones" Pretty sure the last thing anyone in this thread wants is for Israel to be more like the US. Especially in the whole number of nukes dropped area
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Mar 28, 2015 19:29
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hakimashou posted:"You know what Al Qaeda, you were right. Death to Israel. Let 9/11 bygones be bygones" Israel is probably going to lose US support soon anyway with out Israel bulldozing all of Gaza. Nobody in the U.S. Military or the Government likes Nutty Yahoo or the Israeli government.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:30
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PhilippAchtel posted:
I don't think it will be this way. The Netanyahu with the political instincts to say what he said to get reelected will also have the instincts to make nice, just enough. He got his, the rest is gravy.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:33
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Venom Snake posted:Israel is probably going to lose US support soon anyway with out Israel bulldozing all of Gaza. Nobody in the U.S. Military or the Government likes Nutty Yahoo or the Israeli government. From your lips to God's ear.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:34
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Tell us more about the bloodthirsty Arab. When was the last time you looked at Hamas' charter? gently caress You And Diebold posted:Pretty sure the last thing anyone in this thread wants is for Israel to be more like the US. Especially in the whole number of nukes dropped area That's one bold assumption you make.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:36
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hakimashou posted:I don't think it will be this way. The Netanyahu with the political instincts to say what he said to get reelected will also have the instincts to make nice, just enough. No he hasn't. the U.S. intelligence services have long despised Israel for it's incessant spying and stealing of U.S. secrets, the U.S. military has long despised the arrogant and incompetent leaders of the IDF, and now the U.S. political system and administration is tired of Israel's bullshit. You don't get to campaign for a sitting U.S. presidents replacement and then leak top secret negotiation documents without getting told to go gently caress yourself.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:40
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Obama will be gone in two years, but Netanyahu will stay for four. And Hillary stands with Israel.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:43
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OwlBot 2000 posted:Obama will be gone in two years, but Netanyahu will stay for four. And Hillary stands with Israel. Hillary stands with the Democratic party, and the Democratic party loving hates Nutty Yahoo and the Republicans who support him. Remember how everyone said the U.S. would never ever say ill of Israel? Well we have white house chief staff saying Israel needs to gently caress off back the 67 borders.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:45
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Venom Snake posted:Hillary stands with the Democratic party, and the Democratic party loving hates Nutty Yahoo and the Republicans who support him. netenyahu literally laughs in your face for the "Nutty yahoo" schtick because it's how he knows he's got you beat.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:47
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Remember this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8BwqzzqcDs I kind of doubt the past few years has resulted in an uptick in sentiments.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:50
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Hillary stands for Hillary and not much else. If Netanyahu treats her like he does Obama I see the blowback being worse.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:52
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hakimashou posted:netenyahu literally laughs in your face for the "Nutty yahoo" schtick because it's how he knows he's got you beat. When Israel's economy goes down the toilet I doubt Bibi will be laughing very hard.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:56
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"nutty yahoo" is the most offensive thing in this thread
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Mar 28, 2015 20:11
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Forums Terrorist posted:"nutty yahoo" is the most offensive thing in this thread I couldn't decide between "Nutty Yahoo" or "Bibi booboo"
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Mar 28, 2015 20:13
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I guess I should have thrown in a few more ironicats, I sometimes forget how it is in a forum where people must appear the most leftest Wasn't the pulling of Nazi troops and settlers from occupied Poland was the real genocide, hmmmmm liberals? 
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Mar 28, 2015 20:15
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PhilippAchtel posted:
Venom Snake posted:Israel is probably going to lose US support soon anyway with out Israel bulldozing all of Gaza. Nobody in the U.S. Military or the Government likes Nutty Yahoo or the Israeli government. Proof this is anything more than wishful thinking please. Hillary Clinton enthusiastically defended Protective Edge, and that's even given the fact that she personally hates Netanyahu just as much as Obama. Chuck Schumer is likely going to be the new leader of the Senate Democrats. Elizabeth Warren is on the record as being unabashedly pro-Israel. Paine cited a few pages back a recent survey that shows that public opinion hasn't moved at all.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:15
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Venom Snake posted:I couldn't decide between "Nutty Yahoo" or "Bibi booboo" Quit infantalizing world leaders, save that for av shalom Really, it just makes you look like a loon when you do so.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:16
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Kim Jong Il posted:Proof this is anything more than wishful thinking please. Hillary Clinton enthusiastically defended Protective Edge, and that's even given the fact that she personally hates Netanyahu just as much as Obama. Chuck Schumer is likely going to be the new leader of the Senate Democrats. Elizabeth Warren is on the record as being unabashedly pro-Israel. Paine cited a few pages back a recent survey that shows that public opinion hasn't moved at all. Except people have been saying this all along down the line and France just put in a resolution on Palestine and the word on the street is the U.S. isn't going to veto. Sorry, but just because you say everything will be poo poo forever, doesn't mean it's true. Israel has finally broken the thin ice it was on.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:17
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Forums Terrorist posted:"nutty yahoo" is the most offensive thing in this thread Yeah, it makes all the criticism of Netanyahu look childish by association. It's the same kind of "Obummer" nonsense that right-wing blowhards vomit.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:17
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hakimashou posted:You could find a lot of examples of equally awful things said by Americans. I know it lacks the emotional impact, but "nuke Afghanistan" and indeed "shoulda nuked Russia!" express more homicidal ideas. I get what you're saying, but the intended emotional impact is very much a factor here. These people are wishing/praising death upon children specifically. That's very different from wishing harm against a nation in general (even if both sentiments are deplorable). When these people are citizens of a state that has repeatedly killed thousands of children in military actions, maybe sentiments like this should be taken seriously and treated as indicative of a broader problem.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:19
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PhilippAchtel posted:Oh I believe the Israeli government's lack of concern for the opinions or lives of Muslim moderates is more than well established at this point. I am not playing devil's advocate at all as far as I'm concerned, you are trivializing many issues and misrepresenting the actual view points supporters of Israeli expansionism hold, Netanyahu is not at all an ideologue. I'm a 'moderate' in the sense that I myself am a goddamn hippie and don't agree at all to the martial law and land theft in the west bank and the siege of gaza and believe that palestinian application of violence against Israel does not justify the far larger scale of israeli violence (soft or otherwise), I do not believe that it is 'right' to apply such violence and I believe that it is possible to ensure Israel's permanent survival through other means, that's why I guess I would be considered a moderate, however, I do not believe that this line of rhetoric of "lest Israel change its wicked ways it shall be isolated and condemned for an eternity" is grounded in reality and I actually believe people like Bibi believe that a Palestinian state is an inevitability, they're just trying to dictate facts on the ground that will ensure that the creation of such a state will occur on the terms that they consider to be in Israel's best interests, I do not consider that to be an ideological position nor am I convinced that they will necessarily fail and are thus 'wrong' (not in the moral sense, of course). Not every republican is trying to quicken the apocalypse, not every Likud voter dreams of rebuilding the temple. quote:Time will tell, I suppose. You're right that "pro two state" is not strictly speaking "anti Israel". But there's a wide gulf between a) Israeli moderates meeting with Palestinian moderates to craft a peace deal because they believe it is in their interests, and b) the United States softening its veto protection and Israel being dragged to the table by sanctions and official UN recognition. The difference is that only the latter possibility has had any realistic chance since the second intifada and the failure of the Oslo accords, I would be very happy if Obama makes Palestine an internationally recognized state, I wouldn't myself consider it to be an anti-Israel move either, but unfortunately it hasn't happened yet, and people the Bibi side of the spectrum would say that we're both doomsayers for even entertaining the notion, well, most of them would actually tell you that Obama is a muslim and a terrorist but I doubt Bibi himself counts among those.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:21
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hakimashou posted:"You know what Al Qaeda, you were right. Death to Israel. Let 9/11 bygones be bygones" What the gently caress does that have to do with what I said? hakimashou posted:From your lips to God's ear. Looks like you're starting to lose it. Take a break from posting. We don't mind.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:22
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Not every republican is trying to quicken the apocalypse, not every Likud voter dreams of rebuilding the temple. I liked the part where you accused me of being closed minded and misrepresenting Netanyahu's reasoning, and then post poo poo like this. I've been mostly trying to avoid commenting on your childish parodying of what I'm saying, but I'm done.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:30
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7c Nickel posted:Remember this? He knew he was lying. His handler told him to ignore that "aye" had less than half.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:31
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Venom Snake posted:I couldn't decide between "Nutty Yahoo" or "Bibi booboo" Bibi-shitter.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:31
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Bibi-shitter. Bibi-hitler.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:40
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Uhm... no? GUess I misread you then, sorry. This is why I don't often post in this thread despite following it: emotions run high.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:40
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The temerity of the Palestinian mother to allow her kids to live above ground in a building is all the proof I need to know Palestinians will not rest until every Israeli is below ground.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:50
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