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Someone back in the days of Usenet wrote a really good analysis of Vetinari's role in Jingo. http://www.ealasaid.com/fan/vetinari/musings-jingo.html quote:One of the things that's always troubled me about J is the way Vetinari acts so out of character, dropping the helm of A-M and charging off on what is more than likely to be a wild goose chase (and one which, on the "real" leg of the trousers of time, turns out to be a failure, with A-M invaded). But then this discussion of the war got me wondering if it made any difference to my interpretation of Vetinari's behaviour if I assumed that he knew from the beginning of the book that Klatch was determined to invade. And it turns out it does.
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Mar 24, 2015 21:02
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Trin Tragula posted:Someone back in the days of Usenet wrote a really good analysis of Vetinari's role in Jingo. Go read this whole link, it manages to articulate really well what is going on in those scenes, and is another reason why I love Jingo so much
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Mar 24, 2015 21:15
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Oh my god. I'm up to the part in Monstrous Regiment where (60%-ish in) Lt. Blouse is insisting on being the person to dress up as a woman to sneak into the fortress. It's a total farce, he's completely clueless, and everyone is awkwardly hemming and hawing, and Jackrum is livid, and Igorina is saying all these suspect things, and Maladict is having a ball spinning innuendo after innuendo. And then the part where everyone conveniently has parts needed for the costume in their packs, and Blouse thinks nothing of it. It's a total riot. I also love Maladict's occasional Vietnam flash-sidewayses. Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 06:09
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I say this as someone who adores Monstrous Regiment--it gets even better. Before long you should also see Shufti get a whole lot more amazing  Also keep an eye out for what can only be called Jackrum's last stand. That's not half so much of a spoiler as it appears.
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Mar 25, 2015 06:46
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Hedrigall posted:Oh my god. I'm up to the part in Monstrous Regiment where (60%-ish in) Lt. Blouse is insisting on being the person to dress up as a woman to sneak into the fortress. It's a total farce, he's completely clueless, and everyone is awkwardly hemming and hawing, and Jackrum is livid, and Igorina is saying all these suspect things, and Maladict is having a ball spinning innuendo after innuendo. And then the part where everyone conveniently has parts needed for the costume in their packs, and Blouse thinks nothing of it. It's a total riot.
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Mar 25, 2015 10:34
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Can anyone recommend somewhere to start my Brother-in-law with the Discworld? He's dyslexic and isn't really much for reading, but he went through the audiobooks of Game of Thrones after enjoying the TV series, and I've had success with The Lies of Locke Lamora series and the Rivers of London series, and made some interested noises about Pratchett. Based on those, it seems like the City Watch books would be the best place to start - unless you think he's going to miss too much of the backstory of the world? The more you read of the world, the more you soak up the background, but I don't know if you need more of a sense of the world before you get into really Ankh-Morpork focussed stuff like The Truth or any of the Moist Von Lipwig stuff? I was a bit disappointed by some of the more recent books - Snuff, Unseen Academicals and Raising Steam, so I'd like to root him into the Golden Age stuff. There's also the fact that he'll be listening to all the audiobooks and the quality of some of the early ones just feel like they've been copied from the tapes - even though Planer is perfect for Rincewind. (I vaguely remember Tony Robinson doing some too, but those are dim memories from a decade ago.) Unless you think that jumping into some of the later books doesn't need the backstory - Can you get into Thief of Time or Hogfather without having the grounding in who Susan is, and therefore who Death (and of rats), Mort, etc are?
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Mar 25, 2015 11:33
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Guards Guards remains the best book to start with. Solid but not his best, leads into a series, sets expectations lower than Small Gods.
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Mar 25, 2015 13:24
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Doubtful Guest posted:Based on those, it seems like the City Watch books would be the best place to start - unless you think he's going to miss too much of the backstory of the world? Guards Guards is the perennial popular opinion, it was the one Pratchett himself recommended as a starting point, and with good reason. It's the beginning of the City Watch series and probably the best book in the first 10. I wouldn't worry about not having the "backstory of the world" - it actually develops a lot over time and certainly changes from the first few books, when it was more of a straight-up fantasy parody. It grew into itself, as it were. My other personal opinion for a good starting point is Mort, which is the first book in the series that I think is actually quite good - the first two are all over the shop and I don't remember much about Equal Rites, but Mort combines a lot of good jokes with some great characters and a solid beginning-to-end plot. And also, although the series is unfortunately not well primed for a beginning-to-end read for a newcomer (because the early books aren't great) it's worth, once you get into it, actually reading in publication order, because you get to enjoy all these cameos from other characters in story arcs which aren't theirs. I don't think there are any Ankh-Morpork books, even as early as Moving Pictures, which don't have a couple of members of the City Watch showing up briefly. Similarly, it's more fun seeing Ridcully show up in Lords and Ladies when you already know him, etc.
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Mar 25, 2015 17:22
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Doubtful Guest posted:Can anyone recommend somewhere to start my Brother-in-law with the Discworld? I thought Nigel Planer made almost every character sound like a bumbling idiot. I much prefer Stephen Briggs, though I don't know if he's done any early Watch books.
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Mar 25, 2015 17:28
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Planer worked better for the stuff with the Witches, I felt. I prefer Briggs for the Watch stuff though.
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Mar 25, 2015 21:01
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a cow posted:I thought Nigel Planer made almost every character sound like a bumbling idiot. I much prefer Stephen Briggs, though I don't know if he's done any early Watch books. This man knows what's up. I guess he was alright as Mr. Sideney in the Hogfather adaption, though...
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Mar 26, 2015 15:01
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In my head Nigel Planer always sounds like Neil. And now I started thinking about Discworld characters that would be appropriate for and all I can think is Reg Shoe. Even though he's clearly more of a Rick.
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Mar 26, 2015 15:23
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He sounds like 1/3rd of the Discworld Noir characters to me.
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Mar 26, 2015 15:25
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freebooter posted:Guards Guards is the perennial popular opinion, it was the one Pratchett himself recommended as a starting point, and with good reason. It's the beginning of the City Watch series and probably the best book in the first 10. I wouldn't worry about not having the "backstory of the world" - it actually develops a lot over time and certainly changes from the first few books, when it was more of a straight-up fantasy parody. It grew into itself, as it were. Good suggestions. Personally I think starting with Mort then skipping to Wyrd Sisters and carrying on from there would be the best way for a newcomer to do it in published order. Then you could do Colour of Magic, Light Fantastic and Sourcery before Eric if you had the patience. Or put all those ones off until you get to Interesting Times and read them before that. Equal Rites can probably be skipped over almost entirely. Can get round to reading it as a curiosity but it's the one that most feels like some early proto-version of what the series would become and particularly disconnected from the rest.
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Mar 27, 2015 05:21
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The Economist has a nice obituary.
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Mar 27, 2015 06:13
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End Of Worlds posted:Lords & Ladies and Carpe Jugulum are also identical storylines with different antagonists If you simplify enough, every story is the same story. Go make yourself familiar with 'The Hero With A Thousand Faces'.
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Mar 28, 2015 04:27
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Thanks for all the advice - looks like Guards Guards! will be the best place to start him from.My Lovely Horse posted:In my head Nigel Planer always sounds like Neil. And now I started thinking about Discworld characters that would be appropriate for and all I can think is Reg Shoe. Even though he's clearly more of a Rick. I agree about preferring the Briggs audiobooks to the Planer ones, but Rincewind and Neil remind me too much of each other - perpetually mistreated by the world. Just like my ideal voice casting for Vimes would have been Pete Poselthwaite - just matches the voice in my head, like one of my old teachers having a Welsh lilt that I imagine all of Carrot's dialogue in.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:31
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Finished MR. Fantastic. Do any other Discworld books have LGBT characters or was this the only one? --- Also, what DW book do you think has the best cast of supporting characters? I love the City Watch cast the most (Angua, Cheery, Detritus, Reg Shoe, Visit, etc), but Monstrous Regiment came so close to that greatness. Jackrum, Maladict, Igor, Blouse, Shufti, Tonker, they were all brilliant characters with nuances and shining moments. Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 15:15
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Nobby, since Jingo? 
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Mar 29, 2015 15:35
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supermikhail posted:Nobby, since Jingo? Nobby's a bit of a joke, sadly. Cherri might be considered a form of LGBTQ, though.
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Mar 29, 2015 15:43
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Hedrigall posted:Finished MR. Fantastic. There's a gay bar in Ankh-Morpork and a few characters associated with the Seamstresses Guild, but all minor.
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Mar 29, 2015 15:46
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There's a lesbian couple in Snuff. Madame Sharn and Pepe from Unseen Academicals might be LGBT in some way, but I can't remember if they ever get explicit about it.
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Mar 29, 2015 16:12
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Nihilarian posted:There's a lesbian couple in Snuff. Madame Sharn and Pepe from Unseen Academicals might be LGBT in some way, but I can't remember if they ever get explicit about it. I don't think they ever do, but one does not inquire about what goes on behind closed doors. It would not be healthy, given Pepe's attitude. 
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Mar 29, 2015 16:36
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Professor Bengo Macarona is a gay wizard on loan to UU from Quirm in Unseen Academicals.
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Mar 29, 2015 17:05
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Rand Brittain posted:Professor Bengo Macarona is a gay wizard on loan to UU from Quirm in Unseen Academicals. Excuse me, I think you mean quote:Professor Macarona D.Thau (Bug), D.Maus (Chubb), Magistaludorum (QIS), Octavium (Hons), PHGK (Blit), DMSK, Mack, D.Thau (Bra), Visiting Professor in Chickens (Jahn the Conqueror University (Floor 2, Shrimp Packers building, Genua)), Primo Octo (Deux), Visiting Professor of Blit/Slood Exchanges (Al Khali), KCbfj, Reciprocating Professor of Blit Theory (Unki), D.Thau (Unki), Didimus Supremius (Unki), Emeritus Professor in Blit Substrate Determinations (Chubb), Chair of Blit and Music Studies (Quirm College for Young Ladies)
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Mar 29, 2015 18:20
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John Dough posted:Excuse me, I think you mean I have a feeling he's a relative of Mr. Gambolputty.
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Mar 29, 2015 21:47
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daggerdragon posted:I have a feeling he's a relative of Mr. Gambolputty.
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Mar 30, 2015 07:06
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There's also the whole Priscilla, Queen of the Desert thing in The Last Continent if that counts.
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Mar 30, 2015 13:32
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I've always been fond of the footnote in Jingo that tells us there's a Mr Harris (of the Blue Cat Club) on the committee of the Guild of Seamstresses.quote:His admission caused a lot of argument in the Guild, who knew competition when they saw it, but Mrs Palm overruled the opposition on the basis, she said, that unnatural acts were only natural. d'awwww
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Mar 30, 2015 13:48
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OK just finished Men at Arms, getting ready to start the next. Found the following guide online which statesquote:For Readers Who Understand That The Watch Books Really Are The Best
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Apr 5, 2015 16:37
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I don't think it's necessary to have a rigid reading order. The History Monks bit in Night Watch is probably the weakest part of the book, and it's not really improved by familiarity with the character. I would say read the Watch series, then either the Witches (if you like parodies of Shakespeare and fairy tales) or Death (if you like parodies of 50s rock and Christmas). Throw in the stand-alones wherever in there. The order you read the books in really doesn't matter much, although I'd recommend trying to stick to the order for the Witches, and reading at least one of the Watch books between Guards Guards and Night Watch.
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Apr 5, 2015 16:47
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I have never read the Monk books and I enjoyed Night Watch just fine, so I dunno. It may end up being a better experience but you shouldn't feel like you NEED to read it.
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Apr 5, 2015 16:48
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Thief of Time is the only one on that list I haven't read/listened to yet and I enjoyed Night Watch just fine.
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Apr 5, 2015 19:37
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I liked Lu-Tze much better as a supporting character. It didn't seem to me like there was nearly enough material there to carry a full book, and it seems like the subject had had plenty of parody attention before Discworld got there.
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Apr 5, 2015 19:57
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Trin Tragula posted:I liked Lu-Tze much better as a supporting character. It didn't seem to me like there was nearly enough material there to carry a full book, and it seems like the subject had had plenty of parody attention before Discworld got there. I mean, even in his own book he kinda takes a backseat to his sidekick and then the plot turns out to really be about Death and the Auditors again.
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Apr 6, 2015 01:03
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OK I'll not  about this too much and just read the watch books in order, then pick up the other series, probably starting with the rest of the Death books since I've already read Mort.Just picked up a copy of Feet of Clay in an actual, live bookstore. Some over coked attendant came up to me, boping and snapping to their ~~mellow jazz~~ soundtrack, and asked me how I was doing, what brought me in there that day *bop snap*. I almost punched him, it was so aggressively affected behaviour. Never had that sort of reaction before, but he just so deserved it.
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Apr 6, 2015 01:56
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the JJ posted:I mean, even in his own book he kinda takes a backseat to his sidekick and then the plot turns out to really be about Death and the Auditors again.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:01
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tooterfish posted:Because no one notices a sweeper... Well I just did in Going Postal. 
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Apr 6, 2015 10:02
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the JJ posted:I mean, even in his own book he kinda takes a backseat to his sidekick and then the plot turns out to really be about Death and the Auditors again. 
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Apr 6, 2015 11:26
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Bilirubin posted:OK I'll not
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Apr 6, 2015 12:15
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