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Obdicut posted:Why are you evaluating it for 'usefulness'? Is 'racism' a useful term? I haven't seen any objections, at all, to 'cultural appropriation' that couldn't be levelled at 'racism'. Well I guess I would say that criticisms of racism as not a thing are all bullshit, and are done by people determined not to understand the term  Obdicut posted:It doesn't lump anything good together with anything, no. Can you come up with something that's cultural appropriation and is 'good'? I don't mean good for the person doing it. Well, let's see, what's your definition: Obdicut posted:That's not what cultural appropriation is. It's inauthentic, misjudged, disrespectful, out-of-context imitation.  ?  ? These are certainly sacred symbols repurposed to have a different meaning, so I don't see how they wouldn't qualify, unless "downtrodden minority" is part of the definition. It's certainly inauthentic, certainly disrespectful, certainly out-of-context, "misjudged" is perhaps a bit too subjective. Obdicut posted:Do you get why someone who went to China and learned Chinese getting a Chinese tattoo wouldn't be cultural appropriation? You didn't respond in any meaningful way to my explanation. Yeah under your definition, sure. But it seems to require a bit of mind-reading, since in that case if you see a random white person with an Asian tattoo, you can't immediately tell whether it's offensive. Unlike say, blackface, which is always offensive. Can it be oppressive or harmful if one can't decide whether he's just been harmed or not without investigating (serious question, please educate me if so)?
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Mar 29, 2015 21:42
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah under your definition, sure. But it seems to require a bit of mind-reading, since in that case if you see a random white person with an Asian tattoo, you can't immediately tell whether it's offensive. Unlike say, blackface, which is always offensive. Can it be oppressive or harmful if one can't decide whether he's just been harmed or not without investigating (serious question, please educate me if so)? if someone is offended, then they're offended. cultural appropriation is just one way to explain why a person might be offended. why do you think you have to validate whether someone's emotional reaction is valid or not? "I'm sorry. The Offense Review Board has looked into your outburst, and we have found insufficient evidence to justify your reaction. You must wear this SJW mark of shame and refrain from posting on the internet for no less than 14 days. The hearing is closed."
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Mar 29, 2015 21:43
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Obdicut posted:Do you get why someone who went to China and learned Chinese getting a Chinese tattoo wouldn't be cultural appropriation? You didn't respond in any meaningful way to my explanation. So if someone learned Chinese but didn't go to China, is that still appropriation? What he went to China but found out that learning Mandarin is really hard and he only speaks at a 2nd grade level? What if he didn't do either, but did a ton of research into the particular character or idiom and it's meaning and how it's used in Chinese culture? The last guy probably has the most "authentic" and genuinely meaningful tattoo. But seriously don't get a Chinese tattoo white dudes. They are silly and tacky.
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Mar 29, 2015 21:48
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Popular Thug Drink posted:if someone is offended, then they're offended. cultural appropriation is just one way to explain why a person might be offended. why do you think you have to validate whether someone's emotional reaction is valid or not? Well I don't, obviously. But I do have to decide whether to care about someone else's offense. Christian offended that I held hands with another boy? Don't give a poo poo. I'm not going to say they're not offended. Obdicut says there is a distinction between someone who speaks Chinese getting a Chinese tattoo and someone who doesn't. But a third party looking at it wouldn't immediately be able to tell whether it's cultural appropriation or not, under his definition. But if you can never tell whether people you see on the street are being offensive or not without investigating, then what exactly is the harm?
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Mar 29, 2015 21:48
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VitalSigns posted:Well I guess I would say that criticisms of racism as not a thing are all bullshit, and are done by people determined not to understand the term How was that a response to what I said? You seem to have just dodged it without addressing it at all. In what way can your objection to 'cultural appropriation' not be applied to racism? quote:These are certainly sacred symbols repurposed to have a different meaning, so I don't see how they wouldn't qualify, unless "downtrodden minority" is part of the definition. It's certainly inauthentic, certainly disrespectful, certainly out-of-context, "misjudged" is perhaps a bit too subjective. Nope. They're only powerful because the artist actually understood the symbols. This seems really obvious to me. quote:Yeah under your definition, sure. But it seems to require a bit of mind-reading, since in that case if you see a random white person with an Asian tattoo, you can't immediately tell whether it's offensive. Unlike say, blackface, which is always offensive. Can it be oppressive or harmful if one can't decide whether he's just been harmed or not without investigating (serious question, please educate me if so)? Yes, you can't immediately tell whether something is cultural appropriation. This is very apparent and a very critical issue among American Indians, for example, because many members of tribes are 1/16th or what have you, genetically, American Indian but identify culturally and have participated in that culture since birth. So there's plenty of people who have completely authentic American Indian culture who look completely 'white', and you can't tell just by looking. You can't tell a lot of important things in this life just by looking at them, we even come up with sayings to convey this. I'm not sure why anyone would think that it'd be a necessary component that you can tell from a glance whether or not something is appropriation. This is true with many things: you need to actually understand the use of it to judge the use of it. So, someone might be offended by something someone else does at first glance and then later realize that person actually did have a knowledge and understanding of their culture, and no longer be offended. The world is imperfect that way. This isn't a problem with cultural appropriation as a concept or a term.
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Mar 29, 2015 21:51
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Obdicut posted:You think that discerning between 'actually learning the language' and 'not speaking the language at all' is an arbitrary line? Yes, its a completely arbitrary line, and no I think there isn't any line to be drawn that isn't arbitrary, that's the entire point of my objection. Pointing at the absolute extremes on either side of the line does not make the middle less arbitrary. Exactly how much Chinese do you have to know before having a Tattoo in Chinese characters is participation? What level of personal investment does one have to have for it to be participation when a white girl wears a sari? Is a Japanesse kid with an anglicized name from middle America who's never heard a word of Japanese spoken in his life participating in Japanese culture by getting a Japanese tattoo more then some white anime nerd? These are all subjective judgement based on personal beliefs, based on things like taste and what people consider respectful (or racist!) or not, things we already have words to describe.
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Mar 29, 2015 21:55
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Obdicut posted:Nope. They're only powerful because the artist actually understood the symbols. This seems really obvious to me. drat, this is a really, really good point. I'm going to have to take a break and think over what you've said now, thanks 
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Mar 29, 2015 21:56
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Ok, need some clarification. These are Japanese Greasers:  This is a picture of a German country western band called The Boss Hoss  Both of them are copying styles that are not native to Japan or Germany. Are they committing cultural appropriation? Why or why not?
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Mar 29, 2015 21:57
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Obdicut posted:
Did you really just jump from chastising people because you can tell if its cultural appropriation if you just "think about it for 5 seconds before you post" to chastising people that they're stupid for thinking it would be obvious?
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Mar 29, 2015 22:00
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Jarmak posted:Yes, its a completely arbitrary line, and no I think there isn't any line to be drawn that isn't arbitrary, that's the entire point of my objection. Okay then, if all lines are arbitrary, then no objections can be made to anything, at all, right? quote:Exactly how much Chinese do you have to know before having a Tattoo in Chinese characters is participation? I dunno, that seems like a really arbitrary line. I think that the intent matters more: someone actually intending to and making the effort to learn Chinese is really different from someone who thinks "China is cool". But yeah, to you that's an arbitrary line. quote:These are all subjective judgement based on personal beliefs, based on things like taste and what people consider respectful (or racist!) or not, things we already have words to describe. What is the problem with having multiple words or phrases for something? Of all your objections, this is the weirdest one, though the whole 'you can't object to that, it's arbitrary, by the way, everything is arbitrary' is a close second. quote:Is a Japanese kid with an anglicized name from middle America who's never heard a word of Japanese spoken in his life participating in Japanese culture by getting a Japanese tattoo more then some white anime nerd? Getting tattoos is not something that is really part of Japanese culture except for some subcultures in Japan, so that wouldn't really be participating in Japanese culture unless the kid is from one of those subcultures. You see, doing things that are part of a culture with understanding of the culture is participating in the culture. Simply lifting the iconography and using it out of context is appropriation. I mean really I think 'loving up an attempt to participate' would be what I'd call that, but so is a lot of cultural appropriation. Similarly, you may have noticed some black people who grew up dirt poor in the ghetto get angry at middle-class black people who co-opt ghetto culture. Hey, you edited in earlier something about 'cultural exchange'. Can I ask you to think about what the word 'exchange' means, and how 'appropriation' and 'exchange' are different? When someone with no understanding or knowledge of the culture wears an Arapaho headdress to cheerlead at a football game, what do the Arapaho get out of that? Jarmak posted:Did you really just jump from chastising people because you can tell if its cultural appropriation if you just "think about it for 5 seconds before you post" to chastising people that they're stupid for thinking it would be obvious? There's no contradiction there at all, and I never said that you can always tell if its cultural appropriation if you just think about it for five seconds. you're pretty bad at reading what I actually wrote. I said in that particular case you could, because the difference between actually learning the language and not is a really obvious one (except to you, where it's a totally arbitrary line). VitalSigns posted:drat, this is a really, really good point. Cool, thanks for taking the time.
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Mar 29, 2015 22:04
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Obdicut posted:This is pretty simple. You're actually learning Chinese. So it's not appropriation. How does your definition hold up to Americans with Japanese ancestors who barely even know katakana, but still feel obliged to defend the sanctity of their people's mysterious, inscrutable character set? Because that's what was established within this thread - people in Japan are perfectly OK with this and this issue is most grating for people who don't use kanji in their everyday lives (and probably don't even do this often).
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Mar 29, 2015 22:07
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Armyman25 posted:These are Japanese Greasers: Barely. They're engaging in a ridiculous characterization of a 1950's American subculture (or at least that one guy with the dumb hair is) and I'm sure out there somewhere there's an 80 year old man with a leather jacket who is very offended. This would be something worth caring about if Greasers were a thousand year old proud cultural tradition with an ancestral home and not just American teenagers trying to look cool seventy years ago. The elements of appropriation are there, but the culture being appropriated isn't worth caring about. It's also hard to tell how much of this style is rooted directly in American subculture versus what is the result of decades of cultural mixing, which would place a pretty big stamp of authenticity on the local practice of being a guy with a leather jacket who likes motorcycles. Armyman25 posted:This is a picture of a German country western band called The Boss Hoss No. These guys are doing more of an homage, they're trying to recreate a style and musical sound because they like it and think it's cool. It would be appropriation if these guys started wearing wifebeaters and engaging in binge drinking and domestic violence because they thought that was an essential part of the outlaw country experience.
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Mar 29, 2015 22:08
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Gantolandon posted:How does your definition hold up to Americans with Japanese ancestors who barely even know katakana, but still feel obliged to defend the sanctity of their people's mysterious, inscrutable character set? It's not about 'sanctity' at all, or about actually using it. One of the aspects of the integration of the Japanese into American society was that Japanese were forced to abandon their culture, language, etc. in order to integrate into the US. Part of this is natural assimilation, but a lot of it was due to intense hostility to Japanese culture--and lack of sufficient numbers/constant immigrants to refresh the culture. So it acts as a reminder that the reason they've lost this connection is that there was a huge social and cultural penalty to their ancestors here in the US for acting/speaking Japanese.
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Mar 29, 2015 22:10
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This idea that hypocrites are literally worse than Hitler is really amusing to watch, because it's the same exact thing that every angry reactionary does ever. Okay, someone claims a piece of heritage they're not entitled to? So what? Are you going to have an anyeurism about those loving liberal hypocrites?
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Mar 29, 2015 22:12
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It's not always bad but sometimes it is when it is offensive to whole populations because it shows no sympathy or understanding of the appropriated culture (eg. the lovely and racist eurodance song below this post*). There is also reverse cultural appropriation (which is good or at least interesting), aka Jay-Z talking about selling drugs and using the name Rockefeller, equating illegal black business and legal white business etc. I guess whole doctoral theses are written about the more interesting 'from below' appropriation in all kinds of cultural/regional studies depts * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLYBSCO2aIg Antwan3K fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 22:15
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Armyman25, consider this - can it really be appropriation if a culture is actively exported across the world? America is the birthplace of being a lone antihero on a motorcycle and America is also a dominant cultural exporter. There aren't that many native methods to express to the world "I am a tough man who likes riding motorcycles". This is a big reason why it's so hard for Americans to wrap their heads around appropriation, not only does everyone copy us but we actively encourage them to. Also our dominant position ensures that it's difficult to insult us via culture because our culture is relatively shallow and meaningless anyway, and only backed up by at best a few centuries of significance. The best example I can think of for an American audience are fake soldiers. Get a load of this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQCK7jgXWQE Why did the man in green confront the man in uniform? Isn't this a free country? Can't he wear whatever he wants? Why was the man in green so offended he challenged the other man about his clothing choices? There are dozens of videos like this. Why are people so intent on proving the authenticity of other people's wardrobe?
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Mar 29, 2015 22:23
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Obdicut posted:It's not about 'sanctity' at all, or about actually using it. One of the aspects of the integration of the Japanese into American society was that Japanese were forced to abandon their culture, language, etc. in order to integrate into the US. Part of this is natural assimilation, but a lot of it was due to intense hostility to Japanese culture--and lack of sufficient numbers/constant immigrants to refresh the culture. So it acts as a reminder that the reason they've lost this connection is that there was a huge social and cultural penalty to their ancestors here in the US for acting/speaking Japanese. It seems that their connection to Japanese culture is very tenuous and the reason of their outrage is that they didn't get to participate in it? Wasn't cultural appropriation supposed to be bad because it takes away the control over a particular culture from the people who actually use it and changes it without their consent?
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Mar 29, 2015 22:54
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Gantolandon posted:It seems that their connection to Japanese culture is very tenuous and the reason of their outrage is that they didn't get to participate in it? Well, I don't know. Maybe the particular person objecting is just an rear end in a top hat who is just looking to be outraged. But yeah, some people are annoyed because it shows their culture has been reduced to just random characters. quote:Wasn't cultural appropriation supposed to be bad because it takes away the control over a particular culture from the people who actually use it and changes it without their consent? And because it has the effect of erasing that culture, so that it makes it harder and harder to actually maintain authentic links to the culture. Which, again, seems like a really obvious conclusion to me. Does this not make sense to you, or are you just complaining because whatever original definition you're working from didn't focus on erasure enough?
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Mar 29, 2015 22:58
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Gantolandon posted:It seems that their connection to Japanese culture is very tenuous and the reason of their outrage is that they didn't get to participate in it? Wasn't cultural appropriation supposed to be bad because it takes away the control over a particular culture from the people who actually use it and changes it without their consent? M: Your mission, 007, is to tell Japanese-Americans they're not at all Japanese. Q Branch will provide you with the necessary equipment, and Mr. Leiter will meet you on arrival in America.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:10
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Popular Thug Drink posted:and washington redskins fans aren't big enthusiasts of Sitting Bull either Hitler wasn't making reference to Hindu (or Buddhist or Indigenous) culture in any way. If you're saying the Nazi Swastika is somehow cultural appropriation despite the fact that Hitler was explicitly pointing to German mythology and ancient history, and not Hinduism or Buddhism or anyone else who also used a similar design, then that's a crazy new rabbit hole to explore.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:24
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Effectronica posted:M: Your mission, 007, is to tell Japanese-Americans they're not at all Japanese. Q Branch will provide you with the necessary equipment, and Mr. Leiter will meet you on arrival in America.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:26
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Obdicut posted:It doesn't lump anything good together with anything, no. Can you come up with something that's cultural appropriation and is 'good'? I don't mean good for the person doing it. It has produced a hell of a lot of great art.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:28
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dogcrash truther posted:It has produced a hell of a lot of great art. Was the art great because of the cultural appropriation? Like, is rock and roll better because we had a super-racist period where black people couldn't get radio time and so white people took it over? What would rock and roll be like now in the US if it hadn't been that way and the original black performers could actually get up and do it on radio and fill stadiums and stuff? Like, imagine if rap and hip-hop had to only be performed by white people. A sea of macklemores floating before the eyes.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:31
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unlimited shrimp posted:A third or fourth generation Japanese-American is about as Japanese as a third or fourth generation Irish American is Irish, and last I checked it was cool to scoff at all those St. Patty's Day celebrants who feel nostalgic for a culture they've never known. Yamato blood becomes unacceptably impure once it mingles with that of whites, blacks, or Chinese more than once- a liberal American.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:33
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Effectronica posted:Yamato blood becomes unacceptably impure once it mingles with that of whites, blacks, or Chinese more than once- a liberal American. If I find out tomorrow I qualify as a Status Indian here in Canada despite being raised and cultured as a white person, and despite having no affiliation or acquaintance with Indigenous culture, am I magically qualified to speak on behalf of my newfound group? e. Is it cool to speak as an Irish person because my grandmother was born in Belfast? I mean I grew up in a Toronto suburb and have no personal experience with Ireland but I do have "Irish blood" and grew up with Irish culture as taught by my grandma. unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 23:44
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unlimited shrimp posted:Culture is tied to blood magic? There are plenty of 3rd and 4th generation Japanese with strong cultural ties to their ancestry. I can introduce you to many of them, in San Francisco. Those who lack that connection normally do so not because their parents decided to just give up their own culture (something people rarely do) but because it was clear that to assimilate and be accepted in the US, they had to. Ironically, given that the US is still p. racist, those who lack the cultural connection actually probably have better prospects, non-locally. Minorities still do better the whiter they are, the more they display non-white culture the more they get discriminated against. quote:Is it cool to speak as an Irish person because my grandmother was born in Belfast? I mean I grew up in a Toronto suburb and have no personal experience with Ireland but I do have "Irish blood" and grew up with Irish culture as taught by my grandma. Speak as someone who grew up in Toronto but experienced Irish culture as taught by your grandma. You're not limited in the number of words you get to explain yourself, and they're free, which is cool. And to maybe help get sympathy with others on this, imagine if someone took one of the traditions of your grandma that you know meant a lot to her, and they just hosed it all up and did it stupid and were selling it for $8.88 at Walmart. The really basic version of this is my grandfather getting irritated at storebought "Swedish Christmas Cookies" as being inauthentic especially when they were sold not in a variety of seven. Please note my grandpa was not in any way a social justice warrior and pretty much on the other side of that whole fight (except for unions, which he was pro), but he still got annoyed at cultural appropriation. This is not something that was invented at all recently as a concept--people have pointed out various aspects of cultural appropriation like erasure that have been talked about for a long time--but the system of it as a whole is more neatly encapsulated by a (necessarily imprecise, like 'racism') term. This apparently infuriates people, why I have no idea. If you're into the whole brevity thing and want a way to refer to yourself, you can say you're "Irish-Canadian" which is basically shorthand for "Some significant percentage of my heritage is Irish, and I have some connection to the culture, though this might be limited by erasure and whatnot". Interestingly, French Canadians who had grandmothers who were actually French can explain they have French heritage as well as French-Canadian heritage, so they're like, double-French-Canadian or something. We'll discuss that at the next meeting of social justice superfriends. unlimited shrimp posted:Japanese culture (as in, the culture of Japan and its inhabitants) kept growing and developing after their ancestor left. They may have a Japanese-American identity tied to an antiquated Japan but they have no claim to modern Japanese culture. I could introduce you to a lot of 2nd or 3rd generation Chinese or Indian-Canadians who go back to China or India and feel like (and are treated as) strangers and foreigners. Weirdly they weren't prevented from contacting people in Japan, so culture doesn't just diverge completely after people emigrate; some will diverge more, some less. There are also lots of 2nd or 3rd generation Indian immigrants from the US that I know that go back and don't feel like or are treated as strangers or foreigners, but have their own particular place in Indian culture because they've been doing this for generations. And again, there are plenty of places inside India where if people from one group go they'll be treated as strangers and foreigners, and yet there is still something called "Indian" culture. And I didn't claim that Japanese and Japanese-American culture were synonymous, so what the hell are you talking about? They're not claiming modern Japanese culture--what the hell does it mean to 'claim' a modern culture? They're objecting to something that is part of Japanese-American culture, so the status of modern Japanese culture doesn't matter at all. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 23:47
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Obdicut posted:There are plenty of 3rd and 4th generation Japanese with strong cultural ties to their ancestry.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:53
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Effectronica posted:Yamato blood becomes unacceptably impure once it mingles with that of whites, blacks, or Chinese more than once That's what lots of Japanese people actually believe though.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:57
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unlimited shrimp posted:Culture is tied to blood magic? You're the one who said cultural heritage magically disappears after a certain number of generations, regardless of circumstances.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:59
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Obdicut posted:Was the art great because of the cultural appropriation? Yes. It was great because the artist had a different -- maybe even ignorant, maybe even insulting -- perspective on certain symbols and relationships than cultural insiders do.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:00
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Hmmm... Some questionable talk on Japanese Americans itt.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:02
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:That's what lots of Japanese people actually believe though. I grew up in a cave and had no idea Japan has racism problems.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:03
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Effectronica posted:You're the one who said cultural heritage magically disappears after a certain number of generations, regardless of circumstances. In the tattoo example, if it's true that Japanese people in Japan couldn't care less about white people wearing Japanese tattoos, but Japanese-Americans in America do care, then it seems obvious to me that we're discussing different cultures. If we're not discussing different cultures then why do the grievances of Japanese-Americans carry more weight than the apathy of Japanese-Japanese?
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Mar 30, 2015 00:07
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Obdicut posted:There are plenty of 3rd and 4th generation Japanese with strong cultural ties to their ancestry. I can introduce you to many of them, in San Francisco. Those who lack that connection normally do so not because their parents decided to just give up their own culture (something people rarely do) but because it was clear that to assimilate and be accepted in the US, they had to. This is absolute nonsense, most people don't live in ethnic enclaves and they become part of the culture they grow up in. Sure lots of people like to hold to icons of their heritage because they consider it part of their identity, this is not the same thing as being part of the living culture of a place they've never been. Even in ethnic enclaves like San Francisco there is a unique culture distinct from China or Japan. This is also kinda of hilarious considering one of the most common examples of cultural imitation replacing the original in public perception is the Americanized cultural practices of immigrants being mislabeled as authentic cultural practices from their home country.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:07
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dogcrash truther posted:Yes. It was great because the artist had a different -- maybe even ignorant, maybe even insulting -- perspective on certain symbols and relationships than cultural insiders do. And it was necessary to erase the cultural insiders in order to do that? Because otherwise, it'd have been participation. In fact, for a lot of the white musicians, it was participation. Some of them were assholes who never thought or considered that they were stepping all over black people by doing what they were, but a lot of them were incensed by it. Some put their heads down because, well, they couldn't figure out a way to fight the system, but a lot pressed for integration, talked about the importance of the black musicians, revered them, and fully participated. But the system itself is what culturally appropriated, not the artists. I think you're confusing the two. Jarmak posted:This is absolute nonsense, most people don't live in ethnic enclaves and they become part of the culture they grow up in. Sure lots of people like to hold to icons of their heritage because they consider it part of their identity, this is not the same thing as being part of the living culture of a place they've never been. I didn't say they were part of the living culture. How can you read the word 'ancestry' and read 'living culture'? quote:Even in ethnic enclaves like San Francisco there is a unique culture distinct from China or Japan. What I said: "strong cultural ties to their ancestry." That doesn't mean "1:1 correlation with modern Japanese culture". No idea what you'd both read it that way, except you're repeatedly displaying a kind of willful misinterpretation of everything around this subject. unlimited shrimp posted:If we're not discussing different cultures then why do the grievances of Japanese-Americans carry more weight than the apathy of Japanese-Japanese? Why does it matter that Japanese-Japanese aren't offended, if Japanese-Americans (who have their own culture) are?
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Mar 30, 2015 00:13
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See if you can distinguish the difference in intent in these two photographs!   Metal dudes in Botswana  Ted Danson
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Mar 30, 2015 00:18
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Obdicut posted:Why does it matter that Japanese-Japanese aren't offended, if Japanese-Americans (who have their own culture) are?
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Mar 30, 2015 00:21
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unlimited shrimp posted:For the same reason I'd be more interested in what an Elder has to say about using the Medicine Wheel than some new age neo-pagan. It gets to the question of whether or not a grievance is legitimate. Holy poo poo. A neo-pagan has no actual connection to the medicine wheel. At all. They're just making up a connection. Japanese-Americans are not making up their connections to Japanese ancestry. In fact, they can often embody bits that get lost, culturally, to their homeland. Can you please think about this, that you just compared a third-generation Japanese person who kept up cultural traditions to a neo-pagan? Also the Japanese-Canadian person is actually part of your nation and the Japanese person isn't. Wow, new favorite post in this thread.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:23
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Obdicut posted:Holy poo poo. At the risk of sounding redditathiest that how religon works. The elder has no more right to monopolize use of the medicine wheel than the pope has to monopolize communion.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:29
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Obdicut posted:Holy poo poo. Are you scoffing because the neo-pagan doesn't have Indigenous blood in their body, or because the causal chain of of the neo-pagan consciously adopting certain cultural practices is much clearer? Or is a culture only legitimate when time has forgotten where the current practice was appropriated from? Or does it need to reach a critical mass in population? I'm curious. unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 00:31
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